Relationship issue [I can’t see myself marrying her the way things currently are]

[djoner]

Funny thing, back in Dec/ January, she revealed to me that she got some money from her Dad's death (About 20k to 30k).She stated she wanted to buy a house together. She stated that she had 20k towards a house whenever i was ready to get a house. But she then said later that she would not live with anyone unless they were married.

 

It's not that I didn't want the r/l to progress, it's just that I dont think she's progressing.

[DKT3]

Funny thing, back in Dec/ January, she revealed to me that she got some money from her Dad's death (About 20k to 30k).She stated she wanted to buy a house together. She stated that she had 20k towards a house whenever i was ready to get a house. But she then said later that she would not live with anyone unless they were married.

 

It's not that I didn't want the r/l to progress, it's just that I dont think she's progressing.

 

The thing is you can't expect her to change into a woman who you would marry, she is who she is and most likely any changes would be temporary and eventually her true self would reappear this time you would be tangled both financially and emotionally, like with two point five kids mini van and a dog.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's not that I didn't want the r/l to progress, it's just that I dont think she's progressing.

 

If you marry her, you're going to get someone who's looking to go from free rent at Mom's to a free ride with you. That's not a partner, that's a non-paying tenant...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TunaInTheBrine]

I think it's great that you don't just want to write someone off because they're not "perfect," but I can totally feel where you're coming from on this one.

 

Has she ever been to therapy? She sounds a bit narcissistic to me. In my experience, people who focus on material things, spending money, and symbols of status, all emphasize external markers of self-esteem because there is no reliable internal sense of self-esteem. Not that she consciously does any of this or doesn't have feelings; she obviously does and is very sensitive. But my sense is that whether it's with you or someone else, marriage is going to be rough with her until she can do some of the soul-searching and cleaning up that needs to be done.

 

I would keep dating her if you really love her, but depending on what she wants and what you want ultimately, now might be the time to talk more intimately about what is getting in the way and who is willing to work through it.

 

Lastly, and I'll say this, I was alarmed by how much this woman sounds like the woman I most recently dated - materialistic, equates feeling special with spending money, acts childish and pouty when is upset, silent treatment, etc... I don't know how you've done it for this long. I was only with my narcissistic ex for a couple of months and she put a dent in my self-esteem (and wallet) even though I decided to end it. Be careful. More than the cost of this woman's lifestyle, the price to pay for your confidence as a man for staying with women like this is high!

Edited March 8, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[djoner]

I don't think she's ever been to therapy. I made a suggestion for her and her mom to consider grievance counseling after the death of her father last year. Just trying to help, but i know that's their decision.

 

She might be a little narcissitic when it comes to posing on facebook and instagram. She's very photogenic. But i guess its because i know her personally, I see alot of her insecurities surface.

[Redhead14]

Hello all. Alot of helpful replies here. I just feel like I'm always finding fault with women and I fear I might end up one of those lonely old men who ran every woman off because they were never good enough. Sometimes I'm thinking I just need to kick back and live a little.

 

My last relationship of 8 years ended because she had a problem too. She had been out on her own but she was somewhat of a control freak and liked to gamble alot while we were trying to move up. But she left when I started putting my foot down. Anyway, she's married now to an African guy with 2 kids. I heard it could've been one of those citizenship marriages but it seems like he's able to handle her in ways I couldnt. Sometimes I just think it's me.

 

I'm closing on a house this Friday and I havent told my gf all the details yet in fear of her thinking I have all this extra money(which I dont) and then we start arguing because Im buying a house but can't buy the ring she wants. I just told her it was a lease to buy. I'm not sure about even giving her a key to it because of course, I don't have a copy of her key to her house (her parents house)

 

Dating for a relationship and a future mate is a process of evaluating whether or not that person would make a suitable life partner. She isn't and neither was your 8 year relationship.

 

I don't mean to be mean, but it took either years and now four years with this one to come to the realization that she's unsuitable . . . that's a really slow learning curve and/or you just want to have someone in your life to have someone in your life. Even if that's the case, have someone who is a grown up at least.

 

I just feel like I'm always finding fault -- It's not like she just leaves the cap off the toothpaste and you make that a deal breaker . . .

[djoner]

Maybe you're right on some of those things. I think it may be a combination of me trying to give things a fair shake and thinking things might get better.

 

I was in the dating game for over 2 years after my last break up. So i know what its like to make cuts. Some of those women, i wasnt even all that attracted, others were too emotionally damaged that they didn't want to try with me, and others with too many kids that would leave her unavailable, or some may have just not been interested.

 

Its not like I haven't given this girl an option to leave several times. I knew by the circumstances, things weren't right for marriage with her a while ago. I thought i put too much hope and thought she would eventually want to change and get independence. Plus,there was a time when she wasnt pressing marriage so hard. Shes been looking at a few of her friends who got married (some divorced or separated within the first year)

 

I see your point about the learning curve, but seeing each other limited to only weekends, may take a little bit longer before seeing their horns. Not only that, we tend to be more hopeful of people early on in a relationship. When you're having good times with that person, you begin to think that things may eventually develop into marriage. But this past Valentines day and some things she's said recently, have made me realize who she really is. She didn't reveal all that right away and if she did hint some things earlier on, she said it in a laughing, joking manner where I didn't take it so seriously.

 

My last relationship, we were both just too young. She was in college and we were starting our careers to really think about getting married, but had grown very accustomed to eachother. I actually proposed to her, but the last few months, she changed on me and we both wanted different things.

Edited March 8, 2017 by djoner

[Downtown]

I just don’t see her as being stable enough....

Djoner, in what way is her behavior emotionally unstable? Do you see her moods change frequently and quickly? Does she flip quickly between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you)? If so, are those mood flips triggered by minor things you do or say, i.e., things that would not bother most adults? Have you seen a strong repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back over the past four years?

[djoner]

Djoner, in what way is her behavior emotionally unstable? Do you see her moods change frequently and quickly? Does she flip quickly between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you)? If so, are those mood flips triggered by minor things you do or say, i.e., things that would not bother most adults? Have you seen a strong repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back over the past four years?

 

Well often time we get in an argument, she'll try to shout over me so I won't be able to finish saying what I'm trying to say (I've heard her do that with her mother). Or she might walk out the door leave for the rest of the day and I may not hear from her for several days. She's also hung up the phone in the past.

 

Although the stuff doesn't happen all the time, it happens too often out of the times i see her. She often says, if I was married, I wouldn't do that. Or if I was married, I'd do this. I'd cook, I'd clean, etc.

[d0nnivain]

Have you ever sat her down & told her some of what you have told us?

 

 

For example, ask if you proposed with a small CZ (< 1 carat) & expected that you two would elope, what would she say? You need to talk to her about expectations & communication. If you can't resolve these things, there is little sense in getting engaged.

[VeveCakes]

Well often time we get in an argument, she'll try to shout over me so I won't be able to finish saying what I'm trying to say (I've heard her do that with her mother). Or she might walk out the door leave for the rest of the day and I may not hear from her for several days. She's also hung up the phone in the past.

 

Although the stuff doesn't happen all the time, it happens too often out of the times i see her. She often says, if I was married, I wouldn't do that. Or if I was married, I'd do this. I'd cook, I'd clean, etc.

 

So she's fully admitting she knows what she should be doing but is choosing to act like a teenager at home anyways.

 

Run for the hills man...

[BTDT2012]

I'm closing on a house this Friday and I havent told my gf all the details yet in fear of her thinking I have all this extra money(which I dont) and then we start arguing because Im buying a house but can't buy the ring she wants. I just told her it was a lease to buy. I'm not sure about even giving her a key to it because of course, I don't have a copy of her key to her house (her parents house)

 

No key, no ring. From what you have written, the two of you don't share the same values. And don't let her move into your house. She sounds very selfish and self-centered. If you have to ask whether she is marriage material, she isn't.

[d0nnivain]

You are never going to get a key to her parents house. It's ridiculous to think that you would.

 

 

If you don't trust her enough to tell her you are buying a house or enough to want to give her a key, marriage is definitely off the table.

 

 

Until you can talk you can't move forward together. Man up & talk to her. If she won't communicate rationally with you, dump her.

[BettyDraper]

I would hate to see you marry an unsuitable woman just because you are too afraid to dump her.

[Mr. Lucky]

Well often time we get in an argument, she'll try to shout over me so I won't be able to finish saying what I'm trying to say (I've heard her do that with her mother). Or she might walk out the door leave for the rest of the day and I may not hear from her for several days. She's also hung up the phone in the past.

 

Although the stuff doesn't happen all the time, it happens too often out of the times i see her.

 

Based on what you've written, I feel if you were advising you, you'd tell you don't marry her. If that even makes sense.

 

You simply don't speak of her as one would describe their spouse-to-be. Go back and read your posts, seems to be apparent to everyone but you. The "pros" relate to relationships/companionship in general, the "cons" are specific to her. Newsflash - lots of other women out there ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Downtown]

I just don’t see her as being stable enough.... often times we get in an argument, she'll try to shout over me.... Or she might walk out the door leave for the rest of the day and I may not hear from her for several days.... it happens too often out of the times i see her.

Djoner, I note that -- if she is emotionally unstable as you believe -- the two most common causes of instability are a hormone change (e.g., pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause) and drug abuse. If those two causes can be ruled out -- and you've not mentioned them as problems -- the two remaining common causes of instability are BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and bipolar disorder.

 

I therefore suggest that, because you are not describing warning signs for bipolar, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most of sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Although you can spot any strong signs that occur, only a professional can determine whether those symptoms are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Djoner.

[MrInternational]

Do you have any obligation to this woman?

 

You dated away the remaining years of her 20's and got her into her 30's. You spent valuable time, key years, she could have been using looking for a husband. I'm sure you didn't intend to do that, but that's how it has turned out so far. Did you take her virginity?

 

If you had just dated her for a month and she had these characteristics and you hadn't slept with her and just had an innocent relationship, I'd say you might do better to find someone else. Everyone has flaws. Dealing with arguments through pouting is definitely a flaw. Materialism is a major flaw. Laziness is a flaw. But those are the kind of flaws you are free to recognize and cut her loose early on.

 

Some things don't add up. You say she goes to church and the sex is great. What kind of church teaches people who aren't married to have sex? It seems likely she isn't living up to the principles she believes in. Churches aren't supposed to teach people to be materialistic either.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I won't say 'yay' or 'nay' on the marriage issue. I would ask you to consider what you've cost this girl in addition to whether you want to marry her. It might help you make this decision or whatever relationship you pursue in the future.

[springy]

I think 4 years is more than enough time to figure out if you want to marry someone. If you still aren't sure, it's time to end it. She's not likely to change anyway from the sounds of it. She actually sounds quite dreadful.

[djoner]

No i didn't take her virginity.

 

This girl has had her share of dating partners before me. She had a boyfriend she had dated on and off, but he cheated on her and was seeing another girl. He ended up marrying the girl he was cheating on her with. I've have given her ways out in the past, so it's not like I've been holding her hostage, and believe me, she's had several opportunities to go.

 

One day, she stormed out of the house after a disagreement (NOT even an argument) and didn't talk to me for about 5 days, deleted herself off fb, along with our relationship status. I didn't call her either because I felt she was the one in the wrong, AND I feel like I'm always being the one to resolve arguments. Not that time.

 

Anyway, I began to put my self in the position to start moving on. Went out with some female friends (not sleeping with any of them). Then I'm awakened by her in my apartment in the middle of the night that Friday night/early Saturday morning.

 

Needless to say, we resolved it, but I still wondered how we will be able to withstand tougher times, much less living together, or even getting married.

 

4 years may seem like enough time to figure out if you want to marry someone, but I can't agree with that totally. When the relationship is limited to seeing eachother only on the weekends, that kind of keeps things somewhat at the honeymoon stage. Living together and seeing eachother everyday totally changes the dynamics of it all. Plus, I have feelings invested too. Just because I'm not ready to get married, I'm having trouble just "ending" everything just because I'm not seeing her in marriage.

[MJJean]

4 years may seem like enough time to figure out if you want to marry someone, but I can't agree with that totally. When the relationship is limited to seeing eachother only on the weekends, that kind of keeps things somewhat at the honeymoon stage. Living together and seeing eachother everyday totally changes the dynamics of it all. Plus, I have feelings invested too. Just because I'm not ready to get married, I'm having trouble just "ending" everything just because I'm not seeing her in marriage.

 

Most adult relationships are limited to weekends and maybe an evening during the week here and there simply due to life responsibilities. So, yes, 4 years is more than enough time to know. Many make the decision, one way or another, far sooner.

 

After this long, if you don't want to marry this woman then you are wasting both of your time. Time that both of you could be spending seeking compatible mates.

 

So what if you have emotions invested? It's a dead end relationship. Sunk Cost Fallacy.

[djoner]

Most adult relationships are limited to weekends and maybe an evening during the week here and there simply due to life responsibilities. So, yes, 4 years is more than enough time to know. Many make the decision, one way or another, far sooner.

 

After this long, if you don't want to marry this woman then you are wasting both of your time. Time that both of you could be spending seeking compatible mates.

 

So what if you have emotions invested? It's a dead end relationship. Sunk Cost Fallacy.

 

So what do you suggest?

 

She wants a certain type of ring which I'm not ready to make that type of investment right now on jewelry right now. I feel since she's into material things, that's just one of many requirements she has which she will never be satisfied.

 

Most of the time, we enjoy eachother's company and right now, things have settled, so you're just suggesting to just break up right now?

[Whodatdog]

Why break up with her? You enjoy her company. Doesnt mean you have to marry her. Let her Mommy pay her bills, and enjoy your relationship with her.

 

Marriage with her would be a HUGE disaster for you. Likely would ruin your life. I agree with 4 years being more than enough time to know if you should marry someone. Most people know in 6 months. Even just dating on weekends. You have so many doubts about her, as you should, for being a life partner.

 

Dont you think you deserve more? How will you even find someone you are more compatible with and can love you back, as long as you are dating this person, who you know deep down that you can't marry.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Whodatdog

[d0nnivain]

So what do you suggest?

 

She wants a certain type of ring which I'm not ready to make that type of investment right now on jewelry right now. I feel since she's into material things, that's just one of many requirements she has which she will never be satisfied.

 

Most of the time, we enjoy eachother's company and right now, things have settled, so you're just suggesting to just break up right now?

 

 

I'm suggesting you talk.

 

 

As for the ring, she has to wear this piece every day for the rest of her life. Don't you think she deserves to get what she wants? If the cost is really disproportionate, perhaps a smaller size, a lesser metal (white gold vs platinum) or clarity to save money. When asked I specifically said I wanted the rating that had occlusions / flaws as long as they weren't easily visible to the naked eye.

[MJJean]

So what do you suggest?

 

She wants a certain type of ring which I'm not ready to make that type of investment right now on jewelry right now. I feel since she's into material things, that's just one of many requirements she has which she will never be satisfied.

 

Most of the time, we enjoy eachother's company and right now, things have settled, so you're just suggesting to just break up right now?

 

So what if you enjoy each others company most of the time? I enjoy a lot of different people's company most of the time. Doesn't mean I want to spend the rest of my life with them!

 

She's looking for marriage. You aren't ready to marry and, even if you were, you don't want to marry her specifically. So, what are you doing wasting everyone's time?

 

If she was "The One", you'd know. You'd have known for a while now. You'd be over the moon or at least very excited about the prospect of spending each and every day with her for the next few decades or so.

 

I'm suggesting you talk.

 

 

As for the ring, she has to wear this piece every day for the rest of her life. Don't you think she deserves to get what she wants? If the cost is really disproportionate, perhaps a smaller size, a lesser metal (white gold vs platinum) or clarity to save money. When asked I specifically said I wanted the rating that had occlusions / flaws as long as they weren't easily visible to the naked eye.

 

Eh, I disagree. The ring you buy when getting engaged isn't necessarily the one that will be worn forever. Most couples I know have had 2-3 wedding ring sets over the years. Some married couples buy a less expensive ring set and upgrade later as income improves. Some buy a new set simply because their tastes have changed. Others because the old set wore down a bit and they want something more sturdy. On and on.

 

Besides, the truth is that you don't need more than a plain wedding band and some people don't wear rings at all.

 

I got married for the grand total of about $600, rings included. $500 for a matching set of plain white gold bands dipped in platinum and the rest on marriage license fees, parking fees, and fee for the Justice of the Peace who performed the ceremony. Would I have liked a pretty ring set and a "real" wedding. Eh, sure. Did I need it? Nope. I needed to be married to the love of my life. Everything else is just details.

 

Last I checked, "for richer or for poorer" was part of the vows. If this woman isn't capable of letting go of her materialism to accept the "poorer" part, she's not marriage material anyways.

[d0nnivain]

Call me a romantic but when we got engaged I enjoyed the idea that the ring that DH used to propose was the one which would grace my finger forever. (We were also over 40 so budget wasn't as much of an issue). Some of my friends from college got upgraded diamonds as finances improved.

 

 

Wanting a ring just to show off is a problem because it's not about the materialism but I wanted a nice ring. Then again my idea of nice isn't that extreme.

 

 

But the OP & his GF have to talk. He's making assumptions that if she doesn't get all this stuff that she won't marry him. While he's probably right since he knows her, what if he's wrong & those are only wishes not deal breakers?

 

 

I mean I'd love a Maserati but I don't know how to drive a stick & I don't have $150k lying around to waste on a car. Doesn't mean I can't lust when I see one or every so often cajole this guy I know to take me for a ride in his.