Not sure what to think [UPDATE: She contacted him]

[elaine567]

That someone else's wife.

If you mean the OW, she is no-one's wife, she is a 20 yo single woman.

[Lady Hamilton]

If you mean the OW, she is no-one's wife, she is a 20 yo single woman.

 

She said it's her husband getting closure and who is she to tell people how to get closure. She is that persons wife. She most certainly can (and should) say that the only closure he needs is in that he chose to stay with her and work on his marriage.

[understand50]

aileD,

 

The bottom line is you are married to a weak man. He just can not bare hurting anyone's feeling, or standing up and doing the right thing, when it involves having to say "NO". I am sure, he is not trying to restart, but she may, and of course he will be concerned over her well being. The fact it causes you pain, I am sure he will be in distress, and then cought between you both in the came situation, or not.

 

Point is, he is just one of those people who does not see what he is doing past his feeling at the time. I do not know how to change him, or how he sees that he is making things worse. Just dose not want anyone to feel bad. You have a tough road ahead. You are always going to have to be on guard for his white knight side when defenseless women, birds, you name it comes along. You are strong, and that is why he does not do the same or see the same for you.

 

He needs to get into IC, and they need to discover why he has a issue with the word "NO", and why he can not see the pain and hurt he inflects upon his own family as he trys to rescue everyone else. He will be horrified when he figures it out, and that will be its own crisis. Weak men or women are hard marriage partners. They just try and please everyone, and live in the moment.

 

As always, I wish you luck......

[Mr. Lucky]

You are strong, and that is why he does not do the same or see the same for you.

 

One of the many no win/Catch-22 aspects of being a BS.

 

If you're "strong" and don't let the affair destroy you, well, you must be over it. Now your WS can move on, case closed.

 

If you're "weak" and the affair takes a huge toll on you, your misery is a roadblock and stands in the way of progress.

 

The gift that keeps on giving...

 

Mr. Lucky

[aileD]

I wrote a whole thing the other day and my phone deleted and I just haven't felt like rewriting all that again, now i"m on my computer and its much easier.

 

She said it's her husband getting closure and who is she to tell people how to get closure. She is that persons wife. She most certainly can (and should) say that the only closure he needs is in that he chose to stay with her and work on his marriage.

 

This is the problem with real life vs the internet. Sure I can say "you're not allowed to feel this way because what you did was wrong". And I can demand he not talk about it, not try to work thru it and just keep it to himself. But how is that helping my marriage? Sure it helps me, but it just would make him keep it inside--secret-- and WTF isn't that what we're trying to to do anymore? Wouldn't it be better to really get PAST it instead of RUG SWEEPING it which everyone here complains about? We did that the first time around, we know it doesn't work for the healthy future we want.

 

You can't stand in a parking lot for an hour, plus I don't know where you live but it's February. I would wonder if they sat in one of their cars for this conversation.

Yes. Her car. He told me this.

 

The act of parking next to him to talk to him tells me that she was not looking for closure, more to feel him out to see where he was in his life. Closure comes from within and a conversation for an hour would open it all up all over again. There is no way she did that for closure. Not to mention the fact that it is a highly aggressive move. I couldn't imagine approaching xmm in a million years.

yeah she's got balls. I don't know if it was closure or what on her end. She has been dating, and was getting more serious with someone. She wanted to make sure there was still no chance with him before she got serious with someone else. Is that closure? I don't know. On his end, knowing that she was ok, shut a door for him. Is that closure?

 

 

The abuse thing. He doesn't use that as an excuse and never did. I personally can see SO CLEARLY how things affect his way of thinking and his view on love and all that crap. He doesn't. He does not ever use that as an excuse for anything. He is going to counseling and is actually telling people about his abuse in conversation. In our church class he shared, shared with a few friends, etc. That is HUGE. I'm proud of him. The priest is indicted again on charges for 2 other victims. H said if he doesn't plead guilty, then H will get involved as the 3rd victim. That is amazing to me. I think he is learning a lot in counseling and is very strong and getting stronger in regards to that.

 

We talked and I asked what I wanted to ask and he answered.

 

Any contact at all before this? NO

Did they have a 6 month agreement to check in? NO

Did they go anywhere- No, her car parked in lot.

Any physical contact- Hug

Did they talk about being friends or staying in touch- No

What will do if she shows up there again-- said he can't say that he could be rude to her, but that he wouldn't stay or spend time with her.

 

The boss? He's not going to talk about anything personal with her anymore. He is REALLY uncomfortable knowing that xAP and boss are friends. He is looking for new jobs and we are more seriously looking at moving. He doesn't want xAP to know anything about his life and can't trust that Boss won't mention him or whatever. Also, xAP had no reason at all to be in his work area now that her mother doesn't work in same building as H. Now? Knowing her and boss are "friends" and lived together (for CRAPS SAKE WTF!!!!) and she could show up at any time for lunch with the boss or to meet up or whatever, he just wants OUT of there. He's been working from home a lot too. He is very uncomfortable.

 

He's going to IC, I'm going to IC, He's doing a men's church group, I'm doing a women's church group, we recently signed up for a Retrouvaille couples communication weekend that MC suggested, but it's not till end of march. But our church gave us access to an app that has tons of resources on it for EVERYTHING and we found some marriage stuff. We have been doing that the last few days....can go along with the videos of marriage class or whatever.

 

My H has always been honest with his feelings about all this-- good AND bad. And yeah that majorly sucks for me sometimes, but it's honesty and sincerity. At the beginning of NC we didn't go to MC right away, and I kept pushing and finally he's like "I don't even know if I WANT to try"...so IC helped him with that, he realized he does want to try and we've moved on (awhile ago).

 

He said seeing her was a shock....but it made him realize deep down inside he did have a blockage bothering him because of not knowing where she ended up, if she was ok (she said somethings about leaving the country/not going back to her family, etc)....and that seeing that she was indeed ok and seemed to be doing well that was kind of a weight gone. And he said that he did not get the urge to want to be with her, he didn't have thoughts about "what if" or "did I make the right decision", he said it actually emotionally confirmed that he is where he is supposed to be and he feels stronger than ever about it....So is that closure for him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and funny side note-- we went out with a group of couples the other night..one of them was a 55 year old guy and a 35 year old wife. She was miserable and and over-sharer. He was nice, way overweight, losing his hearing (he couldn't understand anything) and wanting to go home early and whatnot, complaining to her in front of everyone. Later when she wasn't around she was talking to a group of us about how he so old, he used to be fun, she just wants to go out and have fun and he always ruins it for her, she's been with him 10 years and feels trapped, should have never been with someone so much older, different generation, was fun at first but not now, etc.

 

I just looked at H and laughed.

[S2B]

Seeing the affairperson is not needed to have closure.

 

No one forced him into her car - he went willingly.

 

He may be willing to be honest with you about seeing her - but I think it's a concern that he gave her any time/thought/energy at all.

[aileD]

Seeing the affairperson is not needed to have closure.

 

No one forced him into her car - he went willingly.

 

He may be willing to be honest with you about seeing her - but I think it's a concern that he gave her any time/thought/energy at all.

 

I get it but I just spent half my previous post trying to explain my feelings on that so I'm not going to keep doing that. I understand what you're saying. It happened, we dealt with it and are moving on. If it becomes an ongoing issue then I'll rethink

[EZNona]

And he said that he did not get the urge to want to be with her, he didn't have thoughts about "what if" or "did I make the right decision", he said it actually emotionally confirmed that he is where he is supposed to be and he feels stronger than ever about it....So is that closure for him?

 

THIS above is great to hear from him. I think with that admission of his, you can feel a bit of relief and keep moving forward as you've been doing as couple in a marriage.

 

I do hope that one day he truly realizes what he has put you through with this whole mess. Not many could have withstood his actions and he is extremely lucky to have you!

 

Keep being strong!

[merrmeade]

Just to weigh in on the l-o-n-g closure thing that you were so understanding about:

 

I get that the up side was that it allowed him to let her go - or something like that. The fact that he shares his feelings with you and the details of what happened, and you discuss all this together so rationally is pretty uncommon though.

 

I think what's weird about it is that you fudge lines between self-respect and empathy for him. The self-respect margin seems a lot smaller. I know this dilemma intimately and wince when I see someone else doing it.

 

I regretted very much letting my husband go off and call OW for the good-bye/closure conversation. It was one more slap in the face to me and very clear that neither of them had the understanding or empathy to realize they had no right to it. It should have been MY call what happened and how, and the only consideration at that point was what I needed. At THAT point, I owed him nothing, and he owed me everything. Whatever need he had for 'closure' was not my concern. Yet I did what you did, thinking he would resent me otherwise.

 

Now, I think not. I think he would have respected me, and WE would have closed that door sooner and more completely. He never had any problem with the fact that he'd wholly and indisputably f-cked up and owed me whatever I needed - except for the whole truth.

 

In your case, I think you have the truth, right? And you don't seem to need the demonstration from him of complete willingness to do whatever helps you heal. My point is that I think you understand what everyone is saying but feel that something was cleared away for the benefit of your relationship by their 'closure' meeting. But I also think that you should be careful about fudging the lines. He did take advantage. He did sit with his former lover for an hour longer than agreed on when he's supposed to be in reconciliation with you. Are you sure that it's not that you just feel you have know choice once it's done?

[merrmeade]

"no choice" - not 'know'

[heartwhole]

Ailed, I'm sorry, but you have such a tendency to minimize and let him off the hook.

 

The issue here is that the 20 year old who thought they were soulmates had the balls to approach him? Frankly, I'm surprised she went away at all. If this indeed their only contact after her (not unreasonable) belief that their love was supreme and he would come back to her like he always did, then I'm surprised.

 

The issue here is that your husband has poor boundaries, poor judgment, and poor empathy. It didn't even occur to him to comfort and reassure you -- it was all about him. It didn't even occur to him that he could say, "I can't have any contact with you!" and leave the situation. It didn't even occur to you could and should call him on these things. Those are the issues.

 

My husband had all of these issues too, so I get it, I really do. You understand that you must be realistic and that growth takes time. But, and here's the part where our stories differ, you do not have to accept the unacceptable just because your partner has a bunch of issues.

 

Our MC straight up told my husband he had a problem with empathy. Once I was hip to the program I started calling him on it whenever he was so caught up in his own stuff that he failed to do what I needed. In your situation I would have said, "You are totally missing how all of this makes me feel; you are too caught up in your own feelings." And I would have expected the conversation to pivot at that moment away from him thinking I will be his sounding board and cheerleader while he pats himself on the back for gaining closure with his girlfriend to him focusing on me and my needs and our marriage. He can process on his own time with his own IC.

 

On the accommodation continuum, you are on the needle touching the "accommodating no matter what the circumstances" edge of the spectrum. I really hope you will work on your own issues and your own self-esteem. You put a Herculean effort into fixing and saving him, but he and he alone can do that. You need to put on your oxygen mask and have the courage to let him sink or swim. You are so afraid he will sink that you're treading water while holding his head above the water. You will not have a marriage of equals until you allow him to start sinking into the mess he's created.

 

Seriously, why on earth was this scenario not anticipated and discussed ahead of time? I'm betting that it was, and he promised X, Y, and Z and then did the opposite, and he was so caught up in how proud of himself that he was that he completely missed this. And you were so caught up in your fear of him getting back together with her that you couldn't summon the outrage that would rightfully result from a breach like this. You have to accept that you cannot control him and that you will be OK even if the marriage fails before you can move forward.

[elaine567]

Watch

and be especially mindful of no. 6. - 6:50

YOU are giving him his full day in court here to explain all his needs and wants, and you pander and bend over backwards to accommodate him, then you leave yourself with 5 minutes to explain what you actually want and need and he hardly notices you spoke.

[heartwhole]

I also want to address your communication. Many couples do not communicate enough, and that is a huge issue. But in your case you're touching the needle on the extreme end again. My guess is that you desire this "analyze everything last thing together to death" approach because you fear that if you don't catch him thinking or feeling something, he will cheat on you again.

 

In the process, you are allowing him to disrespect you by treating his relationship with and feelings for the OW as something akin to appropriate or valid. There really can be too much of a good thing. My husband tried maybe one time in the early days after DD to solicit sympathy from me on the subject of his abrupt loss of the OW and her poor state following their break-up, and I shut that right down. I asked his best friend to talk to him instead because no way, no how was that my concern or burden. Well guess what, best friend wasn't keen to dissect this one either. That's a burden that he must bear alone, and frankly if he lacked the strength to do it then I would be done with him. It's OK, and I would say it's paramount, to set the bar high and expect your spouse to reach it.

 

For eff's sake, your husband HUGGED the OW. And he explained that actually he "still" felt good about his decision to stay married to you. Oh, really? Lucky you! Maybe in a bit he'll change his mind but for now he felt good just hanging out with the OW for an hour, hugging her, and speaking of your reconciliation in conditional terms.

 

And yet Ailed, the villains here are the OW who dared to feel him out, the boss who thinks negatively of you, and the people on the internet who don't understand the nuance of your situation.

 

Until you place the blame and the burden squarely on his shoulders, he's going to go on his merry way disrespecting you and eating cake when he can. Moving will not change any of this.

[Mr. Lucky]

yeah she's got balls.

 

What's more nervy? Her showing up there? Or your H, in mid reconciliation and supposed NC, climbing into her car for an hour and eventually hugging her?

 

aileD, I admire your strength, you're as resilient as they come. Your commitment to marriage is inspirational and you've single-handedly held your family together. But that loyalty shouldn't be allowed to color your perception of what's going on or force you to accept less than good-faith effort.

 

I don't get any sense that you feel what he did was wrong. And that's disturbing...

 

Mr. Lucky