Should I Prepare to Leave - He Hasn't Proposed

[BlkVelvet]

 

The urgency to get married is the reason why marriages don't last.

 

Wrong, again. Not being willing to compromise, "irreconcilable" differences, and viewing marriage as temporary if you're "not happy" for the moment is why marriages fail.

 

Where are you getting all this nonsense from?

[CaliforniaGirl]

The OP has not said he said No. The OP said when he is ready he will marry her.

 

When a women says she is not ready... are you saying a man should aggressively and continously push her to be ready.

 

Absolutely not! They want two entirely different things, and should to their separate ways to pursue a better match (matching goals).

[mightycpa]

Please don't take the context of what i said and manipulate it by bundling it up with other conditions in regards to cheating and etc. We know what unconditional love is and conditional love is. ... lets be realistic here and use our brain.

How about we use the dictionary instead? Because frankly, I don't think "unconditional" means what your brain thinks it means. But, I'm willing to be wrong.

 

un·con·di·tion·al

ˌənkənˈdiSH(ə)n(ə)l/

adjective: unconditional

not subject to any conditions.

 

Hmmm..

unconditional love

noun

affection with no limits or conditions; complete love

 

Hmmm again...

unconditional

Whether it’s love, support, or surrender, if something’s unconditional it’s absolute and not subject to any special terms or conditions: it’ll happen no matter what else happens.

 

NO MATTER WHAT ELSE HAPPENS - I think that covers cheating and whatever other special exceptions you think are naturally included in the list of "special conditions that are not conditions for the purpose of describing unconditional love".

 

What's more, I'd point out that loving someone does not equal staying with them. So, if your BF cheats on you, it's likely you're going to love him anyway. That is pretty damn unconditional. But that doesn't mean you will stay. You can love someone and decide to leave them. So, even if you're right about unconditional love (which I hope you now concede that you're not), it doesn't oblige anyone to stick around. She's not wondering if she should stop loving him. She probably won't, at least not right away. She's considering leaving him. There's a difference, and you've completely missed it.

 

Sweetfish, Here's the nub of the problem. Your language is not precise, and so it is impossible to read your mind and know what you really mean. That's why you're getting pushback, and not just from me. I really think you need to find a new word for whatever it is you're trying to convey with this idea of unconditional love. I think that everybody has conditions, and people who declare their unconditional love for anything simply haven't encountered their breaking point YET, but it's out there. I think what you're really trying to advocate for is a sincere relationship, one that is based on genuine love between two personalities rather than societal trappings. I think that is closer to what you mean, although it's still not a perfect description. I don't get the sense that she is not genuinely in love with this guy. Rather, I think she's afraid his love won't last, that he's the one that doesn't have "unconditional love." She thinks that if he was eager to marry her, it would be a sign that this isn't true. She thinks that because he's not eager, it is a sign that he's not all in. So do I.

 

Also, the next thing you wrote is an interesting argument, but I don't think you realize what you're actually arguing about. I'll try to explain:

The divorce rate is very important. Have you looked into it? Do you know why the divorces are happening. The Asians have the lowest and that almost 75% or more black women are single and have the highest divorce rate.

 

The numbers tells a story and when 50% of divorces are pushed by 80% women that is a telling story. It means a large amount of women are not happy and its simply because most womens needs change as they progressively age and the increase of these divorce has risen because of social media like facebook and tinder.. these are government statstics not arm chair theory or Yahoo.com polls.

The only reason I can think of that you'd bring this up is to justify the man's reluctance to marry. The implication of that train of thought is that if the divorce rate was 1%, then she'd be fully justified to demand marriage, and he'd be totally unreasonable to reject it outright, with a divorce rate so low. If so, you're haggling over the price of marriage, not the principle. You're saying the divorce rate is too high for him to ignore, and based on that, he's got every right to say NO WAY. I agree he's got every right, but I would counter that he doesn't need a reason to say NO. He can just object. It's his right as a human being. The corollary of your argument is that if the divorce rate was comfortably low (pick a number), then he'd have no rationale, because he loves her. That's not a principled argument. That is an argument about risk, which in the end, is another way of saying the price is too high today. That's why people can disagree with you on this too.

 

Lastly,

So here we are.. a women in a relationship with a man. Everything is good and everything was fine and her needs changed. So now the rule book has changed

Well, I did point out how everything changes...

and your advise is for her to leave the minute she doesn't feel happy. Unplug a decent relationship while you sit behind your computer desk.

 

We didn't even get the whole story at first and we don't know the true dynamics of the relationship.. you have no idea if this guy bleeds sweat to maintain the relationship now or if he is just a bum.

I did no such thing. I did not advocate a course of action. I don't care about the whole story. I don't give a whit about the dynamics. I don't care if he's God's gift or the worst guy in the world. My advice was for her to decide what is most important to her, and to act accordingly. I don't really care why she decides to do whatever she does. Her age, her romantic notions of marriage, the color of the sky, it doesn't matter to me. But what I do know is that if she thinks and decides, whatever her criteria are, they will matter to her. She shouldn't let the fact that she loves some guy stand in her way. Most humans fall in love with 4 - 6 people in a lifetime. Her feelings for this guy are replaceable, and I have no doubt he'll get over it too. So if she decides to bail, that's fine with me. If she decides to stay, that's fine with me. If she delivers an ultimatum, that's plenty fine too. Just do something, even if it's wrong, as long as it's right for her. I'd tell him the same thing.

 

OK, now I'm out.

Edited January 18, 2017 by mightycpa

[Sweetfish]

First and foremost, the responses (mostly female members) and reaction to what I wrote is nothing out of the ordinary and I wouldn't consider a push back..but only what your conditioned or belief system is and I respect that. In no way am I holding a gun to any ones head and telling them to swallow any information I write. When a marriage thread is erected... most women LS members will flock to it bees too honey. Its actually quite interesting.

 

What are your thoughts, should I plan to leave? When? Should I try to establish if there is to be a future. Why would a man not want to get married? Im interested in your thoughts.

 

The OP asked for thoughts and should she plan to leave. She openly said she loves him. Like any other member I have the right to express my opinion as long as I follow the rules of the forum right?

 

Now as usual, typical members start telling her to pack her bags.. the typical high five-ING each other and dumping "likes". No one knows the back story and no one knows the dynamics of the relationship and in masses start telling her you need to leave like its the second coming.

 

But I find it so hard not to bring up. I did It tonight again forced him to talk and i ended up in hysterics and I'm pretty sure he cried a bit too. The bit I can't understand is why do it before with someone and not with me, when I asked him this he said I was an angel compared so I don't know.

 

I'm not sure of the specific reason his last engagement ended but I'm pretty sure it was due to erratic behaviour on the females part (turning up at his work in pyjamas) trashing the house, hitting, general crazy person behaviour. She was etc etc

 

I don't even want to get married right this second, but I want him to want me, which is more what it's about I guess. I do want to give a timeline and leave, but I'm scared I never meet anyone I like in this way again.

 

I can't really get to the bottom of why it's not the right time for him...maybe he wants to be the decider. We have looked at buying an additional property for holidays at a lake or beach for the past few months and also booked holidays with his parents for 10 months away (we have been with them before too) . So it's not exactly the actions of someone who is wanting to break up either.

 

Obviously I did bring up marriage and was told "in good time" in fact the few times I have brought it up that's all that has been said until recently when I am starting to become impatient. I never had doubts about him NOT wanting marriage as he had been engaged before.

 

Yes he was engaged before and apparently bullied into it. I have only been told snippets of why it ended by his friend who always tell me how happy they are to see him with me. But I believe he ended it, she was erratic and abusive & refused to leave and I am told cars, money and various other things were provided in a "pay off"

 

So I original and thoroughly read what the OP posted.

 

I concluded some things:

 

It looks like the boyfriend had a horrific experience with a crazy ex and engagement...which is strange to payout and give money when you are not married?

 

The OP states she has NO DOUBT he will marry her.

 

She also admits her boyfriend will marry her in GOOD TIME and admits to being pushy.

 

It wasn't until 7 pages later when I pointed out something else is going on and left out valuable information leading everyone to believe this guy was just flaking out. Its then she admits a side story of other events.

 

Despite all that information, the advice from women to women is to bail on this guy. Despite the fact that this guy was engaged and it ended tragically, which personally I do believe its a red flag that after 4 years you only know a fraction of the story. The poster give us bit of information and it seems inconsistent.

 

The OP that the boyfriend is loving, affectionate, makes her breakfast, they are looking for a lake house, they go on holiday. Has plans for 10 months down the line. She feels he doesn't have a cheating bone and tell her in good time they will get married.

 

My rebuttal is: leaving a man for not being ready to marry means, your not in love with him. If your in a relationship with a man for 4 years and marriage is a determining fact to jump into the arms of another man. You were not really in love with him. Your in love with an IDEA.

[Sweetfish]

There is NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING wrong with wanting marriage, OP, and if that's your hill to die on, I'm here for it.

 

There is not one post that I said marriage was WRONG. This is the beginning of the trigger. The beginning of your manipulation of my post to unload your belief. It is actually vital for two people to marry and stay in a family unit specially when children are involved and its vital to have both mother and father.

 

The obvious issue here is that YOU have a problem with marriage. Maybe someone you cared for left you because you didn't love her enough to marry her and that has embittered you, I don't know, but the bottom line is that ROMANTIC LOVE IS ALWAYS CONDITIONAL. If it wasn't, people would never break up.

Second you are absolutely wrong and now have to retort to false and creative thinking and claims to make your point.

 

And you don't know me, so please dont presume to speak to what I will and won't do.

Double standard

noun

a rule or principle that is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

 

"Unconditional" love is only given to your children -- and even then we have conditions on how we allow them to treat us and behave.

First of all that is a false that unconditional love can be applied only to a child. Please backup this statement. Look, I'm open to constructive criticism and if you can backup this statement that the human mind can only find unconditional love in their child. I will accept that... in this case your stating an opinion and im stating your double standards. Now a mother can have a "maternal bond" or "Maternal Love" this bond is only suppose to exist between mother and child. That is why I said before in other threads men and women do not LOVE the same.

 

There is a huge difference between unconditional love and conditional love. Conditional love blames a person, expects things in return and asks for more. Unconditional love accepts the person, expects nothing in return and sacrifices.

Some authors make a distinction between unconditional love and conditional love. In conditional love: love is 'earned' on the basis of conscious or unconscious conditions being met by the lover, whereas in unconditional love, love is "given freely" to the loved one "no matter what". Loving is primary.

unconditional. Whether it's love, support, or surrender, if something's unconditional it's absolute and not subject to any special terms or conditions: it'll happen no matter what else happens. Breaking apart the word unconditional can help you remember its meaning.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Sweetfish

[Popsicle]

Why on earth did you move in with him? Anyways, yes, it's time to leave. He will never marry you.

[Popsicle]

As a side note, I have a close female friend who has a boyfriend but she never wants to get married. Her boyfriend wants to get married (he's the marrying type) but does not know that she doesn't want to get married. She just strings him along with excuses (all the usual). He is waiting but it will never happen. She tells me the truth but not him. This is how people who are not marriage minded think and behave.

[elaine567]

Most women who want marriage, kids and the whole caboodle will not hang around with guys who are not prepared to put their neck on the line and seriously propose marriage in a set time frame.

 

It is not really about love or not love, it is about not wasting time with a man who will not take her seriously as "marriage material". She may love him till kingdom come but if he is not on the same page then all that love is wasted.

WE are not in the movies, where it all ends happily ever after.

If a man will not commit after years of being together, then all hope of a marriage and a family is most likely gone, so she either decides to put up and shut up, or leave to find a man who will commit.

 

If we were all immortal or we could have children into our nineties then it may be well worth a woman hanging around for Mr Indecisive to propose for a few more years or even decades, but the child bearing years are a narrow window, so she cannot afford to waste time with men who will not commit to her.

No-one can actually.

Any man or woman who is in a lop sided, one sided arrangement needs to consider their options carefully.

One sided love does not conquer all, no matter how true or unconditional. Sometimes you just have to stop banging your head against that wall.

Why try to force the issue with anyone, when there is someone out there who will not need asked twice as to whether they want marriage and kids.

 

Many women in similar cases to the OP, have found that they are just a source of clean clothes, meals and sex whilst he waits for his real love to come along, so I am not sure where all this "men love unconditionally" comes into it...

[Cookiesandough]

Op, I know it is hard because you love him...but its clear you love and respect yourself too. If you're not comfortable with living indefinitely with this man as the pretend wifey, it's going to keep eating at you as much as you try to push it away. You're going to start feeling more and more resentment for him until you fall out of love completely. When offers like your ex's look good it's a bad sign...Youve been together for 4 years and he's almost 40... He's had plenty of time to know he wants to commit or not. You've had discussions with him and asked him wants. Now you need to tell him what you want!! and give it a timeframe. When that expires, you walk away. He loved one woman enough to propose marriage. Ask yourself why you're not with a man who loves you enough to do that and you have to practically beg?

[elaine567]

When a women says she is not ready... are you saying a man should aggressively and continously push her to be ready.

 

No, but he is entirely within his rights to leave, if she is not reciprocating his level of interest.

The OP's partner is not reciprocating her level of interest in marriage,

so she is also within her rights to leave.

[sandylee1]

And OP would gain immensely if going to counseling. She has accumulated an obscene amount of resentment. She wants to get married no-matter-what even if her relationship is falling apart.

 

If she wants to go to counselling by herself, then fine.... But not taking him because he hasn't proposed.

 

There's too much asking 'why'.

 

Sometimes you just have to accept that your BF doesn't want to or isn't ready to marry you and leave it at that.

 

This isn't a communication problem at all. He communicates quite okay on other topics I'm assuming.

 

His response of "when the time is right", is all he's prepared to say, because either that's how he feels or he knows the alternative responses would be hurtful to the OP.

 

I've had ex boyfriends, who if they proposed marriage I'd have said no. Because I didn't see them as marriage material, but they were boyfriend material.

 

I'm not going to tell them though, because it would be cruel. I did have one Ex who was a dreamer and he talked about us getting married. In my mind, I thought he must be mad if he thought I was going to to marry him.

 

He was unemployed, lived in a bedsit and had an old banger.

He was good company, pleasant and good in the sack, but that was it. He was fine to pass the time with.

[Gaeta]

Your post proves my point 110% and thank you.

 

You value the IDEA of marriage more than the person them self. You even proclaim to "die on a hill" looking for marriage. You are willing to scarifice any man for the idea of marriage.

The urgency to get married is the reason why marriages don't last. Unconditional love is not shared only between a child and parent. Unconditional love can be between man or women or beliefs.

 

Marriage does not conclusively means you love someone.

Some people get married for many other reasons.

 

It is very rare the average stable man will put conditions on his girlfriend or wife. A typical man will spare his life for his women... very rare its the opposite. A women will spare her life for her kids... but rarely for her husband.

 

That is the difference in men and women .

 

I SO agree with you.

 

I would never leave a GOOD man that loves me and makes me happy because social pressure says we should be married.

 

No marriage = he doesn't love her is ridiculous. This man may simply have an emotional blockage from his past horrific experience and some therapy would help him put this behind him.

 

That being said: I think OP wants to get married for the wrong reasons. She wants a show to ease social pressure. She should have more introspection than this.

[Sweetfish]

How about we use the dictionary instead? Because frankly, I don't think "unconditional" means what your brain thinks it means. But, I'm willing to be wrong.

 

un·con·di·tion·al

ˌənkənˈdiSH(ə)n(ə)l/

adjective: unconditional

not subject to any conditions.

 

Hmmm..

unconditional love

noun

affection with no limits or conditions; complete love

 

Are we going to start breaking down other terms like:

 

Till death do us part?

How about freedom of speech?

Or Lifetime Brakes or Oil changes?

How technical and minuscule are we going to get to prove a point?

 

Parents have unconditional love with their kids and yet 2 million kids are in circulation in foster homes. Parents throw their kids out of their homes or won't have their kids live with them and STILL love them unconditionally Im not saying all parents love their kids unconditionally... unconditional love is just a love that requires no returns to love someone.

 

Most often women are more likely to change the terms in a relationship and if those conditions are not met she will leave him and fall out of love with him and she will find another man.. quickly and swiftly.

 

Men often do not require returns on love... as they are usually the provider and protector. If you want to accept these statements as biblical that's on you...

 

This is just the nature of many women. It simply is what it is and women and men do not love each other in the same fashion or manner. Men and women love each other totally different.

 

A women will jump in front of a car in for her child...

A man will jump in front of a car for his wife.

A WIFE WILL NOT JUMP IN FRONT OF A CAR FOR HER HUSBAND.

 

Seriously.. look at the breakup threads.. alone only they are riddle with... "in 2 weeks my-ex is with another guy."

 

Do men do this.. yes they do... but it is most often women and the major reason why 50% of marriages are triggered by 80% women.

 

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, about 50 percent of marriages in the United States end in divorce, and about 80 percent of the divorces are initiated by women. ... This statistic suggests that more women are unsatisfied with their marriages, at least to the point of ending them, than men.

 

n its simplest form, women want connection but don’t know that's what they want, so the men need to read their minds. This is where the communication breakdown often occurs. Women not saying what it is they want, and men completely not “getting it.” So the wall goes up. The internal process for a woman usually starts with her wondering why she is so unhappy. She works on herself by reading self-help books. Maybe she seeks counseling, starts exercising, or does some form of self-development. At some point, she feels a little better, but something is still off. She may feel lonely, so she looks closer at the marriage.

 

Rosenfeld’s findings suggest that women’s dominance in divorce initiation isn’t rooted in some inherent aspect of heterosexual relationships, as many researchers have assumed; rather, something seems to shift in favor of the man, making him more likely than his wife to be contented, when a couple gets married.

 

 

So again the proof is in the numbers.. They are not 50/50 or 60/40. They are 80/20. Every year in every westernize country its roughly 65-85% women pulling the trigger on divorce.

 

U.K.

Canada

USA

Australia

London

England

 

because somewhere along the line something changes.

 

The OP was happy with this man now for 4 years and something has changed and if he doesn't act under her terms.. she will find another man.

 

because according to all the posters here...marriage is the ultimate level of love.. I guess you agree on that right?

 

Now that my friend is HOGWASH. Marriage is not going to make him love you more or less or fix a problem or make him want you more.

 

I really think you need to find a new word for whatever it is you're trying to convey with this idea of unconditional love. I think that everybody has conditions, and people who declare their unconditional love for anything simply haven't encountered their breaking point YET, but it's out there. I think what you're really trying to advocate for is a sincere relationship

 

Is this opinion or fact? So are you discounting the unconditional love of a child along with that statement. Maybe its you that loves in condition and has not experience unconditional love? Have you considered that? Maybe in your state you requires something to love the other person.

 

When you leave a person because of a condition... you are saying I am off to love someone else that can meet my conditions. Whats the point of going down the isle and saying your vows if you knowing know that its not till death do us part. Ok? What if along the way someone with better conditions comes along? Are you justifying that "well since this person has X and Y" you shift your love to another person?

[salparadise]

I did have one Ex who was a dreamer and he talked about us getting married. In my mind, I thought he must be mad if he thought I was going to to marry him. He was unemployed, lived in a bedsit and had an old banger. He was good company, pleasant and good in the sack, but that was it. He was fine to pass the time with.

 

Worthy of a quot, although I'll reserve any editorial based on my mommy's advice with regard to, "if you can't say something nice... "

 

Lesson to men: if you want to filter out a certain type, drive an old banger.

[elaine567]

U.K.

Canada

USA

Australia

London

England

 

 

To be slightly pedantic here. London is a city in a country called England that is part of the UK.

[ElizabethIII]

I SO agree with you.

 

I would never leave a GOOD man that loves me and makes me happy because social pressure says we should be married.

 

No marriage = he doesn't love her is ridiculous. This man may simply have an emotional blockage from his past horrific experience and some therapy would help him put this behind him.

 

That being said: I think OP wants to get married for the wrong reasons. She wants a show to ease social pressure. She should have more introspection than this.

 

I dont think so. I dont what the laws are like where you are but in my country, if you have children unmarried, you are absolutely SCREWED if you then break up. You have none of the legal protections of marriage regarding financial settlements and property ownership.

 

In marriage, the husband and wife own 50% of the house each even if the wife has never worked and raised children and paid nothing for the house. If they unmarried, she would entitled to what she put into the house: nothing. No alimony, no pension rights, nothing.

 

Relationships break up ALL the time.

 

The whole I love you and you dont have to marry me...well ok but have children with them at your peril in my country if you are unmarried.

 

I would stay in a relationship with someone unmarried, but I wouldnt have any children unless I was married as there is very little legal protection if you break up.

[salparadise]

I really think you need to find a new word for whatever it is you're trying to convey with this idea of unconditional love. I think that everybody has conditions, and people who declare their unconditional love for anything simply haven't encountered their breaking point YET, but it's out there. I think what you're really trying to advocate for is a sincere relationship

 

Is this opinion or fact? So are you discounting the unconditional love of a child along with that statement. Maybe its you that loves in condition and has not experience unconditional love? Have you considered that? Maybe in your state you requires something to love the other person.

 

When you leave a person because of a condition... you are saying I am off to love someone else that can meet my conditions. Whats the point of going down the isle and saying your vows if you knowing know that its not till death do us part. Ok? What if along the way someone with better conditions comes along? Are you justifying that "well since this person has X and Y" you shift your love to another person?

 

 

Sweetyfish, you really need to reexamine your concept of the natural order on this planet... either that or cite some authoritative references. Parent-child is the closest form of love we know to unconditional, but even that becomes conditional when the child matures.

 

Romantic love has always been transactional and reciprocal. Both parties give and receive to keep it in balance, and if one quits giving it doesn't take long for it to break down. You've already had close to a dozen people in this thread telling you the same thing... and you continue to stand on that position as if you alone know how it is and everyone else is just ignorant. Sweetyfish, I've got news... they are not ignorant.

 

I particularly like the stuff about who will jump in front of a car for whom. Would you please cite your source on that statement. You know there are generally accepted theories on this stuff, right? Try googling the terms reciprocal altruism, kin altruism, game theory - tit for tat - sapolsky, Dawkins, Robert Wright, Robert Trivers, David Buss. But I guess they could all be wrong too, so... if that stand on it thing seem to be workin' for ya, carry on.

[Gaeta]

I dont think so. I dont what the laws are like where you are but in my country, if you have children unmarried, you are absolutely SCREWED if you then break up. You have none of the legal protections of marriage regarding financial settlements and property ownership.

 

In marriage, the husband and wife own 50% of the house each even if the wife has never worked and raised children and paid nothing for the house. If they unmarried, she would entitled to what she put into the house: nothing. No alimony, no pension rights, nothing.

 

Relationships break up ALL the time.

 

The whole I love you and you dont have to marry me...well ok but have children with them at your peril in my country if you are unmarried.

 

I would stay in a relationship with someone unmarried, but I wouldnt have any children unless I was married as there is very little legal protection if you break up.

 

OP is from my country. Children are fully protected and common law couples are also protected. Death is the only worry but nothing that can't be fixed with a will. When my ex husband died his live-in GF automatically inherited his government pension with no marriage and no Will. It applies to couples living together + 2 years.

 

Cirque du soleil canadian owner had to pay 56 millions to his GF of 13 years so she keeps her life style. No marriage.

[ClaraCAKES]

I SO agree with you.

 

I would never leave a GOOD man that loves me and makes me happy because social pressure says we should be married.

 

No marriage = he doesn't love her is ridiculous. This man may simply have an emotional blockage from his past horrific experience and some therapy would help him put this behind him.

 

That being said: I think OP wants to get married for the wrong reasons. She wants a show to ease social pressure. She should have more introspection than this.

 

I have not left him and I don't want to, otherwise I would have left 2 years ago after no proposal.

I also wouldn't jump into a relationship with a guy and marry them for the sake of it. I might never meet someone that I love enough to get married to again. I have had plenty of men had they proposed I would of said no.

The thought of going near another man makes me feel sick, I can't imagine it at all. We talk about emigrating all the time. I don't understand why he would be so unwilling to commit with a girl he wants to move halfway around the world with!

 

In my heart I want to be with this man forever, he's got engaged before. So why not with me? Am I the problem, am I not good enough?, is he looking for a better edition. If I stay here for 10 years will I get tossed to the side eventually? It's easier to move on if you aren't married.

 

For my own sanity I would prefer to know now than be left broken hearted after all that time.

 

 

In my head if he is willing to commit to someone previously he can do it now. I wander what is stopping him...I can't be blamed for the past.

 

In my opinion it is the ultimate commitment of love for another person. If they won't do it does that mean they don't care?

 

I have a friend who is ""serial" with engagements she manipulates men and within 6 months they propose. But she hasn't married any of them, I struggle to see the point in this except for she has a great collection of diamonds now...and then there are the other kind, the friends who have babies to try and keep a man. We have friends like that. I think if we did have a kid before getting married, then that would be the thoughts of everyone &I me "he only got married for the kid"

 

I don't know about you guys either but I would want to enjoy marriage for a few years, travel and enjoy it before trying for a baby too. Not just get married and have a baby straight away.

[No_Go]

I don't understand why he would be so unwilling to commit with a girl he wants to move halfway around the world with!

 

Have you taken active steps towards immigration, i.e. searching for employment, housing, visas etc?

 

If not - it is just day dreaming and sweet talk... The same way how men talk about rings, 'wedding day' and 'baby names' with a woman that the have no desire or intent to marry. It is fun to talk, she likes it - why not talk about it, it sets a good mood

[Redhead14]

I have not left him and I don't want to, otherwise I would have left 2 years ago after no proposal.

I also wouldn't jump into a relationship with a guy and marry them for the sake of it. I might never meet someone that I love enough to get married to again. I have had plenty of men had they proposed I would of said no.

The thought of going near another man makes me feel sick, I can't imagine it at all. We talk about emigrating all the time. I don't understand why he would be so unwilling to commit with a girl he wants to move halfway around the world with!

 

In my heart I want to be with this man forever, he's got engaged before. So why not with me? Am I the problem, am I not good enough?, is he looking for a better edition. If I stay here for 10 years will I get tossed to the side eventually? It's easier to move on if you aren't married.

 

For my own sanity I would prefer to know now than be left broken hearted after all that time.

 

 

In my head if he is willing to commit to someone previously he can do it now. I wander what is stopping him...I can't be blamed for the past.

 

In my opinion it is the ultimate commitment of love for another person. If they won't do it does that mean they don't care?

 

I have a friend who is ""serial" with engagements she manipulates men and within 6 months they propose. But she hasn't married any of them, I struggle to see the point in this except for she has a great collection of diamonds now...and then there are the other kind, the friends who have babies to try and keep a man. We have friends like that. I think if we did have a kid before getting married, then that would be the thoughts of everyone &I me "he only got married for the kid"

 

I don't know about you guys either but I would want to enjoy marriage for a few years, travel and enjoy it before trying for a baby too. Not just get married and have a baby straight away.

 

So why not with me? Am I the problem, am I not good enough?

-- Well, this is the $64,000 dollar question, isn't it? One you should come out and ask him . . .

 

That is what I alluded to earlier . . . he's capable of committing but something is holding him back from that with you. I'd say that there's an issue(s) that make him hesitant. That being said, there wasn't much of a commitment before because he's not with the girl(s) he was engaged to . . . what happened that they didn't follow through to marriage?

 

You've addressed this issue before and he shut down . . . shut down says, "I don't want to get married and I don't want to talk about it because I'm not going to change my mind. So you can accept things the way they are or you can leave -- your choice. I'm not going to end things because I am at least content with the situation and getting exactly what I want without a commitment and if you keep harping on all this, I will leave you. I love you but not so much as to do something I don't want to do."

Edited January 18, 2017 by Redhead14

[Gaeta]

Is your boyfriend Canadian? It's possible marriage does not mean the same thing to both of you. To you it's a commitment, if he's Canadian and born here he's more likely to be like me and consider it just a piece of paper and in no way is representative of his commitment toward you.

 

 

 

In my heart I want to be with this man forever, he's got engaged before. So why not with me? Am I the problem, am I not good enough?, is he looking for a better edition. If I stay here for 10 years will I get tossed to the side eventually? It's easier to move on if you aren't married.

Maybe before he got pressured into getting engaged! and he never really wanted and he did it to shut her up...is that what you want? and apparently the pressure was too much and he broke up.

 

In my opinion it is the ultimate commitment of love for another person. If they won't do it does that mean they don't care?

In your head, maybe not in his. Maybe this man would give you a kidney if you needed one, that's commitment. How is marriage a commitment when you can undo it just by snapping your fingers?

 

I don't know about you guys either but I would want to enjoy marriage for a few years, travel and enjoy it before trying for a baby too. Not just get married and have a baby straight away.

What is marriage going to give you that you don't already have? There is no magic to marriage. You wake up the next morning with the same bills, the same job, the same flaws and qualities and NO you don't feel more secure and you don't feel more loved. If you don't have that already marriage will NOT give it to you.

[VeveCakes]

He doesn't want to...what more is there to debate really?

 

Either you can accept that or you can't. It really is that simple.

[sagamore]

He is withholding sex because you are "going on" about marriage?! Not only is he commitment-phobic, he's also got serious a bit of a sadistic streak. He'll do almost anything to shut you down and keep you quiet.

 

You need to leave this man. Even if you leverage him into proposing, you'd be fettered to a man who would rather manipulate you than communicate honestly. This is a very poor sign for your ultimate happiness.

 

I'm sorry.

[Gaeta]

I love you but not so much as to do something I don't want to do."

 

And you should never love someone to the point where you do something that goes against your heart and your entire belief.