Gaeta Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I understand he doesn't want to get married but what about having children? Because he cannot verbalize why he doesn't want to get married if I were you I'd give a try to relationship counseling before giving up on him. You will both learn to communicate your position on the matter. Link to post Share on other sites
LookAtThisPOst Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I have been dating a guy for almost 4 years, living together with pets for 3.5 years. I am 29 he is 37. Now I cant stop fixating on the idea of him proposing and getting engaged, he completely goes crazy and shuts the conversation down whenever I bring it up. We had a sensible conversation eventually in which he said "when the time is right, I do want to marry you, I have been thinking about it". What does that even mean. I recently had an ex reach out to me (who is now engaged) he told me he thought I was "the one that got away" and he would break it all off for me. Obviously I told him to GET LOST but it was nice to truly feel wanted for a second... I know that i Love my partner & want to be with them. Never have I ever felt with anyone else that marriage and kids would be good, but I do here. However I also know that its not right that if I want marriage and they cant even give me a straight answer I need to stop wasting my time. What are your thoughts, should I plan to leave? When? Should I try to establish if there is to be a future. Why would a man not want to get married? Im interested in your thoughts. Notes: This guy has been engaged before so he is capable of doing so, I dont go on about big weddings - i dont want one, money is no object both of us have businesses and are well off, his family are all married with kids, Around 70% women initiate divorces, why would a man risk getting married? Currently, there is a movement out there called "No marriage", I think there's a website/domain by the same name. Maybe he's caught on to that movement and though you make a great girlfriend, he's just not wanting to marry...in general. Now, I am not sure that when you both met for the first few dates that you both talked about marriage, ie - whether you / he wanted that in your life...or not. Thing is though, sometimes as time passes, he may think you'll be okay with not being married. Same conversation of "having kids", in the beginning stages...both are on board about it, but years later...one person changes their mind about it...and then you have another conversation altogether. I mean, I guess there was no way of knowing whether HE wanted marriage in his life when he FIRST dated dating you, or said "Yes, and quickly blew it off, and continued to date you exclusively...but hey, at least it was monogamous, right? " Anyways, going back to the "no marriage" movement, there are men out there that simply won't marry. They'll have monogamous relationships, but they somewhere down the road that they learned that marriage is more of a risk for a man than it is a woman and no, this isn't a "gender stirring" comment, it's just the facts. Oh, and some pre-nups aren't worth the paper their written on some times, I heard cases where a couple had a pre-nup, and someone still got screwed out of their financials. But it does suck when someone gives you the impression they want marriage in the future, but the piper comes calling...they back out or react the way he does. I do agree, it does suck he lead you on like this for 4 years. This is another reason I don't believe in co-habitation. It just enables people to NOT marry and if you're marriage-minded, I recommend NOT living together as this is typically what happens. Link to post Share on other sites
LookAtThisPOst Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 And what's the point of getting engaged if it doesn't lead to marriage? Some men propose with no intention of marrying just to shut you up. None of the nonsense I see of 5 year engagements. Right... or engagements with no wedding date in sight. I once heard a woman say she just got engaged. I said, "Congrats! When's the wedding?" Her. "Meh, we're in no rush." Years later, same response, "We're in no rush" LOL I call them those, "Go-nowhere engagements." 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ClaraCAKES Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 I understand he doesn't want to get married but what about having children? Because he cannot verbalize why he doesn't want to get married if I were you I'd give a try to relationship counseling before giving up on him. You will both learn to communicate your position on the matter. Yes he does say he wants kids. We had a name picked for a girl. I have no intention of trying to get pregnant to stay together though.. I really think it would get laughed at if I suggested any kind of counselling or therapy.... Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm not sure of the specific reason his last engagement ended but I'm pretty sure it was due to erratic behaviour on the females part (turning up at his work in pyjamas) trashing the house, hitting, general crazy person behaviour. She was etc etc She did all of this and still he wanted to marry her. I imagine this is why he calls you an angel. But why did he give a ring to the devil and won't engage the angel? It was the passion. Link to post Share on other sites
ElizabethIII Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 He's been engaged before not married. Even if he proposes chances are he won't marry you either. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I really think it would get laughed at if I suggested any kind of counselling or therapy.... I viewed it more as mediation. You go there to fully understand why he won't marry and he gets to understand why it's important to you. From there if you part at least you will both know why. I'd turn my heels at a man laughing at my attempts to save our relationship. It's definitely not the type of man I'd want to build a life with and get into parenthood with. I must ask you why you want to get married? Is it for religious reasons? Is it for financial protection? or is it for social reasons? You cannot claim it's for commitment, marriage is not a commitment anymore with 50% divorce. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just to warn you the sweet-talking oh we have a name picked means just nothing for most men (I'm talking from experience with men that I have dated, as well as discussions with male platonic friends). It is just talk. Same with 'envisioning' the wedding day. Men do it because they know women like it. Then women are surprised. My ex used to talk in detail about our wedding when in the same time he was monkey-branching 9looking on dating sites) and then we broke it off weeks later and he was very content with the decision (said 'we were both checked out from a long time ?? After we discussed our upcoming wedding 3-4 weeks ago??) Yes he does say he wants kids. We had a name picked for a girl. I have no intention of trying to get pregnant to stay together though.. I really think it would get laughed at if I suggested any kind of counselling or therapy.... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I've heard people calling engagement rings 'pacifier rings' - women ask for one, guy gives it so she'll stp nagging, and then doesn't marry her for years (if eventually it happens it is because he just decided to do so along the way, not at the time of 'engagement') The record in my circles is a woman that is engaged for 15!! years. Another friend of mine is engaged for 3 years and counting... I think engagement without a clear intent and desire to marry from both parties is just another 'show' and means nothing... Right... or engagements with no wedding date in sight. I once heard a woman say she just got engaged. I said, "Congrats! When's the wedding?" Her. "Meh, we're in no rush." Years later, same response, "We're in no rush" LOL I call them those, "Go-nowhere engagements." 7 Link to post Share on other sites
SerPundnes Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hey Sweetfish, Can I send you a PM? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Currently, there is a movement out there called "No marriage", I think there's a website/domain by the same name. Maybe he's caught on to that movement and though you make a great girlfriend, he's just not wanting to marry...in general. Anyways, going back to the "no marriage" movement, there are men out there that simply won't marry. They'll have monogamous relationships, but they somewhere down the road that they learned that marriage is more of a risk for a man than it is a woman and no, this isn't a "gender stirring" comment, it's just the facts. . I've heard of this movement. Both of my friends sons, 27 and 29 have decided they will not marry. Too bad because they are gorgeous and have good careers. What a waste. Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Peach Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I have a friend who dated a man for years. She wanted marriage, but he kept putting it off. She finally made the decision to move on... She is now married to a very nice man and they have two children... He is living with another woman, never married and no children. A man who wants to be married, will propose. The fact that he shuts you down from even discussing the idea, speaks volumes. You have a difficult decision to make. Don't waste too much time. Totally agree with this. My bet is when he says 'he's been thinking about it' that it's bait to make you drop the argument. I had an ex who wouldn't discuss anything more and would make comments like that until I realized I was getting all I ever would from him and that it wasn't enough for me. In the meantime, I've had men I've moved in with and didn't propose to me and bring up marriage without any pushing. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just to warn you the sweet-talking oh we have a name picked means just nothing for most men (I'm talking from experience with men that I have dated, as well as discussions with male platonic friends). It is just talk. Same with 'envisioning' the wedding day. Men do it because they know women like it. Then women are surprised. I've heard people calling engagement rings 'pacifier rings' - women ask for one, guy gives it so she'll stop nagging, and then doesn't marry her for years (if eventually it happens it is because he just decided to do so along the way, not at the time of 'engagement') It is really very easy for a man to keep some women around just "waiting". It's like taking candy from a baby. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ClaraCAKES Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't want to be an engaged person who never gets married or one of those engaged people that gets married the next month... I originally come from Ireland and everyone gets married young, I was brought up to want marriage and that is the norm if you love someone = you get married. He comes from a great family all happily married too. I'd really like to know the reason why he isn't keen "I'm not ready" is an excuse for something else.... Link to post Share on other sites
VeveCakes Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'd really like to know the reason why he isn't keen "I'm not ready" is an excuse for something else.... He doesn't need to. He has everything already without the marriage. Or, he doesn't think you are the one he wants to marry. Either one sucks. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't want to be an engaged person who never gets married or one of those engaged people that gets married the next month... I originally come from Ireland and everyone gets married young, I was brought up to want marriage and that is the norm if you love someone = you get married. He comes from a great family all happily married too. I'd really like to know the reason why he isn't keen "I'm not ready" is an excuse for something else.... If this is SO Traditional in your culture than why did you move in with him after 6 months without a ring and a date? I was brought up Catholic and married at 20. We did not move in together, we dated 3 years and then married and moved in together. If we had moved in together first than I can assure you we probably would have never married. Life has a way of taking over and if all is dandy without a marriage than why go through the trouble. Also, you know between you and I, who wants to go to a wedding to a couple that has been living together 4 years. If you need security just take an appointment to your notary and have a legal agreement protecting both of you if you split down the road. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
GunslingerRoland Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I think it's time to pin him down on some stuff. Find out if he has a timeline in his head. He wants to get married, then have kids, but he doesn't want to even start discussing engagement? If you get engaged right away, you'd have to rush to get a summer wedding put together, you might be looking over a year out. And then after that if you get pregnant right away, that is another 9 months... Let him know that you don't want to start having kids in your late 30's. That you want to get started with that part of your life now. If he has his own idea listen to it, and maybe you can come up with a compromise. But I think there are a lot of people out there who want theoretical marriages and theoretical children but don't actually want to go through with them. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'd really like to know the reason why he isn't keen "I'm not ready" is an excuse for something else.... He isn't in love that's why. Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 He isn't in love that's why. I am not sure about that. My brother and his 'GF' have been together 25 years, 3 teens, a house, a farm, annual trips. They have everything they want in life and are genuinely happy. Their finances are in order, they have a bullet proof Will. They didn't need a marriage. On the other hand I married. Had a 15 year long miserable marriage that ended in a divorce. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mightycpa Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't want to be an engaged person who never gets married or one of those engaged people that gets married the next month... I originally come from Ireland and everyone gets married young, I was brought up to want marriage and that is the norm if you love someone = you get married. He comes from a great family all happily married too. I'd really like to know the reason why he isn't keen "I'm not ready" is an excuse for something else....The real reason is that he doesn't love you enough to want to marry you. He may love you, but he's not feeling that on the inside. I've been there - I know what that feels like. The woman ticks off all the boxes except one. She's great, and I'm happy and I'm not looking for anybody or anything else - including marriage. Then one day, I meet somebody and it's bye-bye to my great girl and hello marriage material! You're the practice wife. Get out now and be ready for him to appear to give in to you when you leave. Don't fall for it. Oh, and by the way, I'd laugh with scorn and disdain for you if you suggested "couples counseling" to me. The first and only thing those counselors should say when you walk in the door is "if you need counseling before you're married, then my sage counsel is to break up now, before your lives become even more entangled and separating gets really complicated." Then a counselor will have earned his money. Everything else is quackery. You're 29 and counting. Time's a-wastin'! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Saracena Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 And what's the point of getting engaged if it doesn't lead to marriage? Some men propose with no intention of marrying just to shut you up. None of the nonsense I see of 5 year engagements. . I've heard of much longer engagements than this! My aunt's ex waited 13 years (and 3 kids later) to marry the next girl he was living with after she (aunt) ended the relationship! Friends all came to the conclusion it was only because without this piece of paper, he had no paternity rights. At least that was the case then. Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Because her love comes with conditions and this is a sign you don't love him unconditionally. Maybe, but this is ridiculous. A person must be true to themselves. Life is short. We are not meant to sacrifice our lives at the alter of a romantic fantasy of love. You can love someone unconditionally, conditionally or whatever, but if their life goals, priorities, ways of showing love, beliefs etc. are strongly at odds with yours then you are doing yourself a terrible disservice by staying in a relationship with them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrlonelyone Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 My parents would say that you know after about a year of solid dating if you would marry them. Then you should get engaged and be engaged for about a year. Anymore than 2-3 years and you still don't feel like you'd want to be married to that person then move on. My parents met in 1972 off and on and didn't marry until 1980 breaking all the so called rules though so . YMMV They would claim in hindsight that they knew deep down they would be together but couldn't move forward as fast as they liked for various reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Around 70% women initiate divorces, why would a man risk getting married? That is a spurious statistic and you didn't even present it correctly (no, 70% of women do NOT initiate divorces). In any case, it's meaningless to the OP's situation. There are millions of men who do want to get married, and who do so. Currently, there is a movement out there called "No marriage", I think there's a website/domain by the same name. Maybe he's caught on to that movement and though you make a great girlfriend, he's just not wanting to marry...in general. If he's a 37 year old man malleable enough to be swayed by an Internet movement, she's better off not marrying him. Regardless, if married life and children are important to the OP, she needs a partner with the same goals and priorities. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Stillafool: He isn't in love that's why. The real reason is that he doesn't love you enough to want to marry you. Really? Come on. Way to undermine the confidence of the OP. I never intended to marry, the institution of marriage did not resonate with me, I wanted to buck tradition. That did NOT stand in my way of being deeply in love and did not speak to the "quantity" of my love for my partner. There was no love "enough" to make me put aside my opinions on the validity of the tradition of marriage. If partners I had during that period needed a relationship to move towards marriage, they would have been right to leave me because it was not going to happen. Fortunately, we were likeminded on the subject. The OP and her partner are not, and that's where the problem lies. Link to post Share on other sites
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