Will this be the road to estrangement... [Update Nov 2018]

[Globug]

Well he started when he was 17 and stopped when he was 20.

 

 

He actually did move back home before he stopped doing drugs. He was in an accident that caused him to lose his job and he could not pay his bills. We of course refused to pay them. I was terrified the day he moved home because he had been on his own doing his thing how was he going to feel coming back to some sort of rules? I knew I could not police him to the degree I did when he was younger because he was an adult so the only rules I could implement was no drugs in my home, do not come here high, and I have the freedom to snoop through your stuff at anytime to assure myself you are not breaking the rules and IF I find anything I will flush it down the toilet. He agreed to those terms. I never found anything. The first few months when he was home he did not do anything because he had no $$. LOL

 

 

Then he got a job & started using again. Not to the degree he was since he was staying home with us a lot and he couldn't do drugs in our home. A few months after he got the job he was called in for a random drug test & he lost the job. We gave him a timetable to get another job and move out. He did get another job, got a GF and moved in with her kinda, broke up and moved back in with us. During that time he sent me a text in the middle of the night (I saw it when I woke up) "Just wanted you to know I have stopped doing drugs. I do not like how it makes me feel and I do not like the person I have turned into. It has been a month and half since the last time I used. I wanted to wait awhile before I told you so I could be sure I was done.

 

 

And that was it for him. He was 17 when he started using and 20 when he decided to stop. He is 22 now. When he was 21 we had multiple family members die in a year. He came to me right after one of the service & told me he had been offered a hit the night before and he did it & he apologized. He said he didn't know why he did it, that it did not make him feel better and he wanted to let me know. I thought that was HUGE of him. He did not have to tell me yet he chose to. I truly feel he has been clean since then.

 

 

I know I had mix feelings letting him move back in while he was still doing drugs but I lived with my parents till I was 23. My parents were teetotalers and TOTALLY felt like alcohol was a sin. I drank from age 21 to 23 but never in their home nor did I come home with it. So I tried to implement the same rules they did with me.

 

 

Other then a roof over his head we paid for nothing. He was responsible for his car, insurance, phone, fun money, gas, even food.

 

 

If he was home when we ate he had what we had. We never made sure he had food or $ for food. We basically treated him like a roommate with some ground rules.

[jnel921]

Thanks for that Globug. This sounds very reassuring. I am hoping that my daughter comes to the same realization as your son has.

 

I know i would feel the same way if she came back. I would worry about her in my home. I don't want to pay her bills or make her feel she can use us. Right now she still has no glasses and is walking around blind. I am not sure why she is tolerating this. I suspect she is sitting around in that apt doing nothing but getting high.

 

She said she was supposed to participate in a fashion show today but has no way to get there and can't see. I told her it didn't sound safe and she should find a way to improve her vision as she needs it to do things.

 

I will try to be stronger with her. She is supposed to come by tomorrow as she will be visiting my ex H with my son. He has no idea she left. I have not discussed this with him as he is barely in her life and would offer no help.

 

She is however supposed to be here on Sunday. I am hoping that being around family will remind her of what is important and what she is missing.

 

I will need to speak to my husband as he has no problem saying hurtful things like she deserves what she is getting to her face. I am afraid a bigger fight may ensue and I may have to leave.

[Globug]

As hard as it is when she comes ask nothing personal. Keep it light hearted and surface. If she starts whining about her life ask your husband not to say anything and don't engage. Change the subject rather it be about work, dogs, the weather. Good luck!!! I know this is hard

[jnel921]

Thanks for the advice. The last time she was here was here was on Xmas eve and she was clear that she didn't want to talk about herself. If she says anything i will keep it light. I really want this day to be about my son. I am really proud of him for realizing his dreams. This celebration means a lot to me.

 

Crossing my fingers and saying a prayer.

[Globug]

How did her visit go this weekend?

[jnel921]

My D was here for my Son's party last Sunday. My sister picked her up. She got a talking to by her H about the BF's treatment of her. She was happy while she was here. Almost like she felt free. She was communicating with a friend who stopped by and later she cried that she wanted to come home and she was upset that she gave everything up for this life she is living.

 

Her friend told her she made a big mistake leaving. She agreed.

 

She admitted that the BF was controlling and that she couldn't do anything without him breathing down her back. Although she said she wanted to come back she mentioned she needed to leave strategically which I found very upsetting. If someone is treating you badly you only need leave, no explanations. The guy has not replaced her glasses, phone and has not taken her to replace any of her documents. She is sleeping, getting high and basically on her back everyday for this guy.

 

So she left that night. She is supposed to be back tomorrow as our son leaves on Tuesday. I want her to stay. But not sure what she plans. If she leaves I feel that I should give up.

 

My therapist who used to treat her says she has BPD traits and abandonment issues so this guy she is with, even though he is the wrong person, in her mind he is the one she has to be with. She is not going to listen to reason. I am exhausted.

 

I cant have conversations with her that go nowhere. She says she wants this and that but does nothing. Once my son leaves I will be more distant. Maybe that will make her realize that I am not to blame for her choices. Its all upsetting but not much I can do right now.

[jnel921]

My D came back home in Feb after leaving last year in December to live with a reckless group of people and a guy who was physically abusing her. She came back home and after a while I realized it wasn't because she wanted to be home because it was the right thing to do , but to be with another guy who has done nothing but encourage her to hand over her money and sit around while he lives his life.

 

After helping her recover all that she lost, getting another job she has continued to do those things for which we do not care for. Smoking pot, disappearing to go sleep over the guys house and being totally disrespectful at home.

 

My son left for the military in February when she came back and we allowed her to drive his car. 2 weeks later she crashed it and now my son has no car. She wanted us to allow her to drive the other car we originally bought for her to use for school and we told her no. We are sure that texting, Face timing and pot contributed to the crash which she is lucky to have survived. At that point she said she didn't want to be in my home. The perfect life was partying, drinking and smoking pot.

 

She has since been walking in and out of my home and not contributing a dime. She gave me $200 at the end of March and told me that she should be able to do what she wants and I told her no. Its my home. You need to be home by 11 during the work week and by 4am Friday and Sat nights. She wasn't happy with this. She said she wanted me to pay for her school and asked that she and her BF gain possession of my car. At that point I asked her if she was high. She also asked if he could spend the night at my home too. I honestly am done with her craziness. Since when the hell does she think I have to provide a vehicle for her BF?!?

 

Yesterday I asked her to clean her room and wash her sheets and she walked by me and said "Yuppppp" then walked out the door and refused to answer texts and phone calls. I later told her she was not allowed back in my home.

 

She is still very immature and I doubt the BF wants her living in his mom's apt. with him, but I am at my wits end. The girl doesn't care about how her actions and decisions affect me or how they make me feel or make her look.

 

She is chasing this guy and its pitiful. She has a talent for makeup and she will never start her career path as long as she is focused on being with this guy and disrespecting me and my home I refuse to pay for her education or provide a vehicle unless she comes to her senses and stops abusing pot. She claims she is not a pot head and will smoke offsite, but she was crazy to think I would still hand her my car keys.

 

A lot of people here have different views on this, but when a younger person does this it does affect their mentality I believe and hinders their success. My daughter has been involved in several criminal behaviors, couldn't hold down jobs for more than months at a time and I cant deal with her or this anymore. She is currently working at a gas station where she was lucky they gave her another chance as she was working the night shift and said she didn't feel well and left the business in the middle of the night unattended. Like who does this!

 

She is irresponsible and doesn't know how to have conversations that make sense. Her goals don't make sense.

 

Its sad that it has come to this. My H and I wanted the best for her but she couldn't see or accept that. She turns 20 in 5 months. I am done. I am not sure if other parents here have to get to this point where your kids think you owe them something, act nutty and think its okay to treat you like garbage. We are choosing to let go and let god.

[Mr. Lucky]

No judgement from me because there's no right answer here. Having ridden the 10-yr roller coaster of my child's addiction, I know exactly where you're coming from. Fortunately, my daughter's been clean for two years now.

 

Is there a middle ground in what you're doing? You and your H (is she his child?) want adult goals and behaviors from your daughter that she's plainly not ready to meet. I've known 19 yr olds going on 25 and 19 going on 15, she seems to be the latter. But putting her out on the street is a pretty big step. Perhaps there's some way of providing safe shelter while still letting her feel (car, rules, etc) the consequences of her actions and poor decisions.

 

I can empathize with the sleep you've lost and the tears you've shed. Hang in there, most of them do make it over the hump eventually...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jnel921]

Thanks Mr. Lucky, you are right she is 19 going on 15. She is out of control. She just called demanding that I allow her in my home to retrieve her clothes. I told her no and she said she'd break my windows. She started cursing at me. Just was bad all around.

 

She doesn't care about me. She cares about herself. This has taken a toll on me. Its just not right. I just told her that I didn't want to see her or speak to her. Threatening me was the last straw. Who does this to their parent?

 

She has changed things forever.

[Mr. Lucky]

Who does this to their parent?

 

I'd gently suggest an immature 19-yr old does this.

 

Here's a partial list of what your kid lacks - context, perspective, maturity, experience, judgement, history, consideration and analytical skills. Not defending her, simply pointing out like many her age she's playing with a less than full deck. Of course, that doesn't prevent the sense of entitlement or know-it-all attitude.

 

I didn't make progress with my daughter until I accepted her as a deeply flawed human being. I love her deeply but there's times I don't like her very much. On that shaky ground we've built a tenuous relationship that's definitely a work in progress. That she's in our lives at all is a victory compared to when she was 19.

 

I'd hope you'd find a way to stay in your daughter's life. There will come a time when she will need you - and you her...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jnel921]

I want to believe that she will eventually one day feel a great sense of remorse and apologize profusely while begging my forgiveness. Unfortunately if she keeps surrounding herself with the people she does I don't see this happening.

 

Right now I have told her I don't want to see or speak to her. She threatened to break my windows if I don't let her in to pick up her clothes. Cursing and talking to me like I was garbage. i feel like our relationship has forever changed. How can I want her help after this.

[whichwayisup]

I'm so sorry that you're going through this.

 

Until she reaches her rock bottom and truly suffers pain and loss, heartache and being alone (feeling alone and needing help) nothing will change. She isn't the daughter you raised right now. She's an addict and it's like an alien has taken over her body. It looks like her but it isn't really her.

 

You did the right thing. Allowing her to continue living with you or giving her money, access to cars etc, is just enabling her behavior.

[Mr. Lucky]

Right now I have told her I don't want to see or speak to her. She threatened to break my windows if I don't let her in to pick up her clothes. Cursing and talking to me like I was garbage. i feel like our relationship has forever changed. How can I want her help after this.

 

What are your husband's feelings on the relationship?

 

Not sure I understand why you wouldn't want to give her the clothes...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jnel921]

Right now my H and I don't want her to.think our home is a revolving door or all inclusive hotel in which she can come and go and take advantage of all that we have. She needs to contribute and appreciate.

 

It has been 2 weeks and she is still out of our house. I don't know where she is staying. The last few times I apoke to her she was angry and nasty. I had finally had enough of the attitude and asked her why the he'll was she behaving this way towards me. That she was acting like a f***** b****. She was surprised I think when in said this and asked me why I would say that.

 

I told her that she needed to stop and listen to herself and her tone when she speaks to me. It is completely rude and disrespectful.

 

She was angry that I cancelled her plane ticket to see her brother during his military family weekend. She even had the nerve to ask me who was I to cancel her ticket... and I replied the person who paid for it. And I would be damned if I took her on this trip to spend even more money on someone as undeserving as her. It wasn't going to happen. Also I know I would have had a stressful time with her there.

 

I told her that she is not in my home right now so why would she think I should do anything for her. She mentioned that she would have given me the "bread" for the ticket. Then I told her if she had all of this bread why hasn't she paid us back for all of the things we paid for when she first got home.

 

Then in a nasty tone ahe said I didn't have to do all of that. She feels I did it because I wanted to and she doesn't think she needs to pay us anything. I told her that her bills and tickets weren't our doing and I discussed with her paying us back. But the pot she is smoking has clouded her memory. Had she had this attitude when she first got home I most likely would have done nothing.

 

I told her she was an ingrate and that I would do nothing else for her. I honestly am at my wits end with her and all of this.

 

When I saw my son this weekend he made me so proud. He also has changed mentally. It made me realize I need to look at things differently too. My daughter is different. And I honestly don't care for her right now. I never thought I could feel this way, but I do.

 

She has made it clear that I am no one in regards to her treatment of myself and my husband. So I will leave her alone for now and see how she rides out this storm.

Edited April 25, 2017 by jnel921

[Mr. Lucky]

My daughter is different. And I honestly don't care for her right now. I never thought I could feel this way, but I do.

 

She has made it clear that I am no one in regards to her treatment of myself and my husband. So I will leave her alone for now and see how she rides out this storm.

 

jnel921, I get your anger, as they say "been there, done that".

 

But to me, what's missing in the interaction is that even though you hate what she's doing, you love her. And that you'll always be there for her but not in ways that allow her to abuse, take advantage or ride rough-shod over your values and beliefs.

 

I hope you keep the lines of communication open, it's an important lifeline - for both of you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jnel921]

I don't think we will ever be able to communicate. She doesn't listen to a word I say. It's sad. She texted me about a job she said.ahe got and I said congratulations where? and she replied with a nasty remark then said that she would tell me nothing.

 

After she did that it just made me more upset and I had to reply letting her know that I was upset with her attitude and her behavior that these were the exact reasons why we were having issues and I felt that she was acting like a b****.

 

My daughter likes to lie and manipulate. She doesn't really care about me or my husband. Mother's Day is coming soon and I'm sure that instead of a phone call or something special so send me some basic text message. Besides I can't see us having any kind of conversation unless were clearing the air about everything that's happened.

 

At this point I think it's just wishful thinking. I don't even have hope that she will change.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't even have hope that she will change.

 

Gently remind you she's only 19. At that age, I was stupid, arrogant and clueless - just didn't know it . I'll bet in 3-5 years, will be a different story...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jnel921]

Thanks Mr.Lucky, I hope so. I just feel like ahe will dig herself deeper into issues because of her way of being right now.

 

She made mistakes and when I thought she had reached her rock bottom and wanted our help I didn't realize it was just to use us.

 

She has cried wolf so many times I don't know what to believe. I have said some really harsh things to her. I am sure she is hurting over that. So communication may talk some time to improve.

 

I understand what you say about accepting her flaws. But some of those things she can't do while living here. So.she chooses to stay out of the house and disgrace herself and this family.

 

I didn't grow up that way. I love my parents dearly. Would never say the things that have been said to me. They would cut me off too. The sense of entitlement is ridiculous.

 

For now i.will keep quiet when it comes to.her. if she reaches out and starts to upset.me I will cut the conversation short. But I won't lie. I do love my daughter and this has been very hard on us.

[knitwit]

jnel, I am so sorry for all that you're going through.

 

I highly recommend going to a Naranon meeting, and/or checking out soberrecovery.com and checking out their Friends and Family area in the forum.

 

Your daughter is demonstrating all the major hallmarks of active addiction, which you already know. But somehow, it is so helpful when you can talk with other people who are affected by their loved one's addiction. It helps to know that you didn't cause her addiction, it is not your fault. Pretty much every active addict does exactly what your daughter is now doing: being self-centered, rude, unaware, a liar and a thief, an ingrate, only concerned with what she can get from you, a total jerk. It is like an evil alien has taken over.

 

Naranon and/or the forums will help you learn about addiction, why your daughter is acting like this. You'll be able to talk with people who have been in your shoes. It always felt like a pressure release when I went to a meeting or logged onto the forums. It helped me detach, with love and helped me establish strong boundaries.

 

Addiction is a brutal disease. It is highly destructive, destroying lives and ripping apart families. It is no joke. Support is out there. Loveshack is good, but addiction-focused forums and meeting will give you better support for your specific issue, IMO. Naranon and the forum helped me find and keep sanity.

 

I wish the best for your daughter and your family. I hope she finds her way out of her addiction and into recovery soon.

[whichwayisup]

I think you might feel a lot better by not engaging her when she's angry or accusing you of stuff. When she calls, talk but as soon as she gets rude or pissy, tell her you will not tolerate her behavior and that you are hanging up.

 

Take control that way and she'll learn she can't shi.t all over you.

 

Drugs and booze..She's an addict and not the daughter you once knew. Of course you love her but you just don't love who she's become now.

 

I really hope some day she wakes up and gets help so she can be your loving daughter again.

[whichwayisup]

For now i.will keep quiet when it comes to.her. if she reaches out and starts to upset.me I will cut the conversation short. But I won't lie. I do love my daughter and this has been very hard on us.

 

Oh I see you've already decided to do what I suggested.

 

Be kind to yourself. Find time to pamper yourself, be with good friends and spa days. You need it!

[jnel921]

Thanks! I did just that yesterday. My D was hunting me down because she needed something.

 

It was upsetting. She called her dad who came over and she wanted him to pay for a doctor's visit for a clearance she needs for a new job. She needs this completed by 5/10. However because she went to urgent care they wanted to charge $100.

 

I asked her why wouldn't she just pay a $10 copay and see her doctor and she said cause i want to get it done asap. I told her not at everyone else's expense. If you don't have the money don't expect someone else to foot your bills.

 

My ex H W was frustrated with her as well and told her the same. So for now she isn't growing much.

[Whodatdog]

You need to re-read Globugs post from the past. She has told you exactly how you need to handle your daughter for your own sanity, and you arent doing it.

 

You are still enabling. You are still giving her things. And in return getting nothing but misery.

 

Re-read it now. Your daughter doesnt need help, you do. She knows just how to manipulate you.

 

Read it again.

[jnel921]

Whodatdog,

 

Thanks for reminding me of this. I have this printed and near me now. I have finally stepped away. It just got too painful. She dared tell me last week that I should prepare to feel some pain from her.

 

This person is not my daughter. Who talks like that to their mom. I want the real daughter to return home to me one day with love, honor and respect. With tough love hopefully that will happen.

[jnel921]

Things got a little worse. I got served family court papers from my ex H who wants to modify child support. He had some attachment to his papers where he noted our D lived with him which is false.

 

He had her write a phony letter saying she has only lived with me 3 weeks our of this year, Which is also a lie. She also says she is living with her boyfriend. However 80% of her belongings are here, i still pay medical, dental and car insurance for her and paid her braces off this week which she went in on Wednesday to remove.

 

He states the CS should have been given directly to her and wants child support to go to her boyfriends mothers apt!?

 

What kind of ridiculousness is this and how is it that family court would allow him to file such bogus stuff?

 

He never mentions how he didn't pay CS for 2 months last year and started paying me half in February. How I paid $1200 in bills for our daughter and $2420 for braces.

 

I have had it with my D. She can pack it all up for all I care. I am really tired of her telling lies, especially about me. We have gone back and forth about her coming home and each time her terms are ridiculous.

 

 

 

I don't believe my daughter knows this letter she signed and had notarized may emancipate her and she will have nothing in the end. But she is trusting in her dad right now and wants nothing to do with me.

 

her BF even sent me a nasty text saying that he is sick of me and that I hurt my D and if they have a family I will never know their baby and I wont see my D again. she has told him so many lies I am sick of it.

 

I cant believe this is how things are turning out. I have my son's Military graduation coming up and I know they both will be there. Not sure what to do. The court date is 6/16 and my son will be here. I will ask him to come with me.

 

I am so upset right now.

Edited May 26, 2017 by jnel921