What can I do...

[Midwestmissy]

If someone I respect pays me a compliment, I'm flattered. Male or female. If a stranger comments on my outfit or shoes in a nice way, it's lovely. I do the same. If a man sees the ring on my finger and flirts/propositions, I find it insulting. He's saying that a) he sees that I'm married and doesn't care and b) he assumes my vows are meaningless because I'll be game to cheat.

 

I guess I don't get how it's flattering to be hit on by someone who doesn't respect you.

[anika99]

So OP,. you tell all these women that you love your wife, and are only using them for sex, and will never have a future with. them, and they all dropped their pants for you?

 

Wow, talk about a modern day Don Juan. I mean you do understand that when these women agree to sex like this, they are in a worst position than prostitutes right? And, if men and women are so equal when it comes to sex, why we have so many more of our male species willing to pay for sex than female throughout human history?

 

I'm just curious, since there are a lot of OWs here, how many of you ever agree to have sex with a MM that laid the cold truth out for you like that?

 

I doubt that would be an attractive offer for most OW, but I do think that some OW hear what they want to hear and then start writing their own story that allows them to believe that the affair is less wrong and less hopeless. If a married man says something along the lines of 'I can't leave my spouse for _____ reason (money, kids, loyalty, whatever)' or if they say my spouse is _____(frigid, too needy, too fat, whatever) then the OW takes that small amount of info and creates a whole story around it that ends with the MM having an epiphany where he realizes that the OW and their love is worth everything and when that happens he will surely leave his miserable marriage.

 

Sometimes it isn't so much what the MM says but it's more what he doesn't say.

[imperfectangel]

If someone I respect pays me a compliment, I'm flattered. Male or female. If a stranger comments on my outfit or shoes in a nice way, it's lovely. I do the same. If a man sees the ring on my finger and flirts/propositions, I find it insulting. He's saying that a) he sees that I'm married and doesn't care and b) he assumes my vows are meaningless because I'll be game to cheat.

 

I guess I don't get how it's flattering to be hit on by someone who doesn't respect you.

 

I doubt a casual flirtation when out running errands or whatever is really that deep

[waterwoman]

I don't think it's that unusual for women to go for NSA sex - there are number of women who signed up for that on here initially by their own admission.

[starswewillnavigate]

So OP,. you tell all these women that you love your wife, and are only using them for sex, and will never have a future with. them, and they all dropped their pants for you?

 

Wow, talk about a modern day Don Juan. I mean you do understand that when these women agree to sex like this, they are in a worst position than prostitutes right? And, if men and women are so equal when it comes to sex, why we have so many more of our male species willing to pay for sex than female throughout human history?

 

I'm just curious, since there are a lot of OWs here, how many of you ever agree to have sex with a MM that laid the cold truth out for you like that?

 

My xMM didn't lay things out quite like that but I knew he just wanted sex, there was never any question that he would leave his wife and it was a mutually beneficial arrangement for us. The difference is if it's "just sex" or if you start building up some sort of "friendship" or other emotional intimacy. So although my xMM just wanted sex, his messages to me were rarely sexual, we talked a lot about our work/kids/our days/hobbies in messages- so it wasn't "just sex" even when things had been laid out like that in the beginning. And being a woman, of course emotions come in to play when you're sexually intimate, but also when you have someone messaging everyday asking how you are and that they are thinking about you.

 

It's the worse sort of affair, because the man walks away saying "well you know it was just about sex" and the OW sees that it wasn't.

 

BluesPower mentioned that he enjoyed spending time with this woman, so I'm guessing it wasn't just sex when they met, they would hang out as well? It's not as cold and clinical as he makes out.

 

My situation was very short lived and it hit me like a ton of bricks when he ended it. "Just sex" or not, I can't imagine what being in this situation would be like for 4-5 years.

Edited October 24, 2016 by starswewillnavigate
Adding end comment

[aileD]

My xMM didn't lay things out quite like that but I knew he just wanted sex, there was never any question that he would leave his wife and it was a mutually beneficial arrangement for us. The difference is if it's "just sex" or if you start building up some sort of "friendship" or other emotional intimacy. So although my xMM just wanted sex, his messages to me were rarely sexual, we talked a lot about our work/kids/our days/hobbies in messages- so it wasn't "just sex" even when things had been laid out like that in the beginning. And being a woman, of course emotions come in to play when you're sexually intimate, but also when you have someone messaging everyday asking how you are and that they are thinking about you.

 

Not all men can just go have Sex with someone they don't really know. The mental part of it, the flirtation, the getting to know you....is all part of foreplay for some men. So yes it makes you seem like there is something more...but in reality all those talks and words were still just with the intent to have sex.

 

Women tend to. Get attached to the person, men in this situation get attached to the courting to sex process...

[starswewillnavigate]

Not all men can just go have Sex with someone they don't really know. The mental part of it, the flirtation, the getting to know you....is all part of foreplay for some men. So yes it makes you seem like there is something more...but in reality all those talks and words were still just with the intent to have sex.

 

Women tend to. Get attached to the person, men in this situation get attached to the courting to sex process...

 

see this is the bit I have difficulty with. I agree, my xMM was interested in me because of sex, because that's the premise on why we started an A and he's not one for one night stands, he said as much. But then I could say that with any man I start to date - maybe they are only showing interest because they want sex? I have had a couple dates with a guy recently and what you mentioned has crossed my mind, maybe he's only interested in the chase? Where is the difference?

 

xMM carried on our conversations once he called time on the A. Either to keep me in reserve or because he liked talking to me. I have no idea, I feel so cynical about things at the moment.

[Lion Heart]

First, I am really not sure where to put this so I am putting it here.

 

Second, I want all the OW's, and OM for that matter, that are hurting to know that I am so sorry you are hurting. It sucks in everyway, for everybody.

 

And I am so sorry for all the women that I have hurt in the past, I just feel like such a piece of crap about it. I know that I deserve the stuff that is still going on in my life.

 

But today, one of my OW that I thought had finally moved on, sent me, at my work email; a couple of songs about broken hearts. WTF?

 

Look guys why can't she get over it, it has been almost a year? I am just not worth a woman getting in such a twist over?

 

I never, lied to any of my women. I told them from the start what it was about, sex and companionship.

 

I am not the best looking guy in the world. I am OK for my age and that is it. I am not rich, I have a few bucks, so what.

 

I am not the greatest lover in the world, I am a decent lay and that is it. I am just old enough to understand a thing or two about how a woman's body works.

 

It is not my fault that some of these woman did not really understand what decent sex was all about. I mean if I am with a woman, and we are at all compatible, she is going to enjoy herself. What else am I supposed to do?

 

Most of my OW got over everything pretty quick, a few months maybe a little longer.

 

But my god this woman will just not let it go. I have done everything I know to do to help her get over it.

 

Is there anything I can do to help her get over this? I do care for her, and I sorry that she is having a hard time.

 

But come on with this crap, it is time for her to move on with her life. She is never going to have a life with me and I told her that from the start.

 

Email her your user name here because as proud of your "qualities" as you are, I strongly doubt you've been COMPLETELY honest to her at least.

 

HAVE YOU SAID all of the above to her?

 

I doubt you've been honest to "your OWs". Or else such an unattractive prospect must just have some huge numbers of very loose women hoping for a less than average lay hanging about on every corner lol.

 

YOU lead them up the garden path for sure. Nuff said.

 

LH

[Lion Heart]

Not all men can just go have Sex with someone they don't really know. The mental part of it, the flirtation, the getting to know you....is all part of foreplay for some men. So yes it makes you seem like there is something more...but in reality all those talks and words were still just with the intent to have sex.

 

Women tend to. Get attached to the person, men in this situation get attached to the courting to sex process...

 

 

EXACTLY aileD.

 

The OP credits himself on knowing how a woman's body works but he's dumbfounded about a woman's mind? Lol.

 

Sexual predators predate for sex. They only say and do whatever they have to, till they get sex.

 

It's transparent why they don't simply use prostitutes.

I guess it's cheaper to use free women.

But the whole CHASE GAME is part of their predatorial natures.

They get bored pretty quickly!

 

Stars...you will never know much until you KNOW A MAN'S character.

Past behaviours predict future behaviours.

 

If you WANT A guy that's into you for more than just sex, you need to look deeper than the face he's putting on.

 

SURE I picked the wrong type of men to marry in the past.

Hopefully I'm older & alot wiser now! Lol.

 

I've had men go nuts when told they weren't getting sex.

I don't allow a man to pay for anything during dating until some type of "understanding" is reached. Some men think they "bought" you by paying for a meal.

Similar to prostitution use in my books.

 

Just wait. Hold off on sex. Be prepared to wait for a good man.

 

If you're in my country, you could be waiting a long time! Lol.

 

LH

[BluesPower]

Wow, LH I am sorry that you have been so hurt. And I understand that you have been through the mill. I totally get that. I find several interesting things about your post.

 

First, all the women, including my wife, new that I was not exclusive with them. My wife knows what I have done, and I was not sleeping with her at the time because of her addiction.

 

Also, I am sorry to say, but there are a ton of women out there that are not being properly taken care of in the bed room. That is also not my fault, I frankly helped as many out as I could. And they always left happy.

 

Second, while I am not a pretty boy anymore, I am more than unattractive.

 

Third, I have never provided any woman with substandard sex, ever. Otherwise I would not have any repeat customers so to speak.

 

Forth, Sorry but I was not a predator, in fact most of them chased me first.

 

What is so disturbing to me are the above notions as follows: If a woman is promiscuous she is just exploring her sexuality in a positive way. She can have as many FWB's as she wants and that is ok.

 

However, if a man is promiscuous he is a player, a predator, or a general piece of crap. Now that just seems like an unwanted double standard.

 

I mean woman can't be allowed to be sex positive if men are not allowed the same things.

[starswewillnavigate]

Wow, LH I am sorry that you have been so hurt. And I understand that you have been through the mill. I totally get that. I find several interesting things about your post.

 

First, all the women, including my wife, new that I was not exclusive with them. My wife knows what I have done, and I was not sleeping with her at the time because of her addiction.

 

Also, I am sorry to say, but there are a ton of women out there that are not being properly taken care of in the bed room. That is also not my fault, I frankly helped as many out as I could. And they always left happy.

 

Second, while I am not a pretty boy anymore, I am more than unattractive.

 

Third, I have never provided any woman with substandard sex, ever. Otherwise I would not have any repeat customers so to speak.

 

Forth, Sorry but I was not a predator, in fact most of them chased me first.

 

What is so disturbing to me are the above notions as follows: If a woman is promiscuous she is just exploring her sexuality in a positive way. She can have as many FWB's as she wants and that is ok.

 

However, if a man is promiscuous he is a player, a predator, or a general piece of crap. Now that just seems like an unwanted double standard.

 

I mean woman can't be allowed to be sex positive if men are not allowed the same things.

 

BluesPower -

 

on your third point... my xMM wasn't great in that department and I still went back. The foreplay was enough for me, I found him deeply sexually attractive - plus he's a fun person and I enjoyed spending time with him.

 

Fifth point - I don't believe that this is true in the slightest. Look at Sophina's post, she's likening any female in this situation to being that of a prostitute. In my IC my therapist, when we were talking about my xMM said "do you want to be the wife, mistress or prostitute?" and inferred that I was being treated as a free prostitute by him. I think that women are looked down upon wanting to explore their sexuality. When I opened up to a couple of friends about it, they both said he was "using" me? Surely we were using each other? I wanted him as well.

 

I do agree though that any man in this situation is going to be looked upon as a player/predator/all round cad - people don't like cake eaters. There's a lot of mutual using in these situations.

[aileD]

I guess I just meant that we seem to have this vision that if a man is using us for sex, he must do it in an uncaring way with no mental energy spent on getting to know and enjoy the mind of the person he's trying to have sex with. No affection, no normal discussions that don't include sex, etc.

 

In reality, I think most men who have affairs aren't looking for a quick **** with a stranger or a ONS. They need to mental part too....which is part of the build up...the flirting, the connection, the limerence if you will, and the excitement of the forbidden and sharing something explicit with a secret person . Why do you think people involved in affairs mostly say "omg it was the best sex ever".

[ChickiePops]

Wow, LH I am sorry that you have been so hurt. And I understand that you have been through the mill. I totally get that. I find several interesting things about your post.

 

First, all the women, including my wife, new that I was not exclusive with them. My wife knows what I have done, and I was not sleeping with her at the time because of her addiction.

 

Also, I am sorry to say, but there are a ton of women out there that are not being properly taken care of in the bed room. That is also not my fault, I frankly helped as many out as I could. And they always left happy.

 

Second, while I am not a pretty boy anymore, I am more than unattractive.

 

Third, I have never provided any woman with substandard sex, ever. Otherwise I would not have any repeat customers so to speak.

 

Forth, Sorry but I was not a predator, in fact most of them chased me first.

 

What is so disturbing to me are the above notions as follows: If a woman is promiscuous she is just exploring her sexuality in a positive way. She can have as many FWB's as she wants and that is ok.

 

However, if a man is promiscuous he is a player, a predator, or a general piece of crap. Now that just seems like an unwanted double standard.

 

I mean woman can't be allowed to be sex positive if men are not allowed the same things.

 

You're joking right? If a woman is promiscuous, she's not called empowered, she's called the s-word..or the w-word (I think both of those words are banned here so I won't say them but you know what I mean).

[BTDT2012]

Mm telling me he'll "always be married" is what ended it for me. MOW may feel different but as a single ow what's the point if it isn't going anywhere?

 

I think this maybe where the actions over words thing comes in. He's saying he loves his wife yet is having sex with multiple ow, hardly the actions we'd look for in a loving husband.

 

This is why I don't always believe the actions vs words theory it's not always that black and white

 

Many, many years ago, after my first marriage ended I was an OW. He was married, and he was going to stay married. I didn't want to ever be married again, and didn't want anyone to be able to make demands on me. It wasn't just sex. We went out on dates. I enjoyed his company. I broke it off because he began to make demands and invaded my privacy. To my knowledge there was never a DDay.

 

It was so very wrong and I am ashamed when I think of it. I suppose being a BS is my karma bus.

[sandylee1]

Thanks for that, but lets be real.

 

For that time period I was a jerk for sure. I did a lot of damage to a lot of women, and it was wrong for so many reasons.

 

But I am better now though...

 

Blues,

 

Your wife had an affair herself and then it was the drugs, during which time you weren't intimate with her. .. ... I don't think you're a jerkat all. In fact you always speak with a lot of passion about your wife, I doubt you'd have stepped out without the 'two affairs'.

[BluesPower]

The fact is that those things hurt, but it was not the affairs as much as it was the drugs.

 

I was never intimidated by the men she choose to have affairs with. It really hurt a lot. I actually made me feel worse that they were such losers, really embarrassing.

 

But with the drug addiction and when the sex stopped, because she was not "there" so to speak, that put me over the edge.

 

And, I freely admit that I went kind of crazy for several years, until she got sober.

 

I own what I did though, I make no excuses, it was wrong.

 

I just don't agree with the "predator" comments. But, everyone has their right to their opinion. Who am I to judge?

[BluEyeL]

I do think you did wrong, and yes, it's normal you're trying to justify it, but overall you were selfish and seem to treat these women very callously.

 

If you just wanted sex, you should have kept these affairs short. I will not be able to believe that you went with this woman for 5 years and didn't realize she's attached. Next time you cheat, keep them short and change the women often. I know it's more comfortable to go back to the one that is giving it up easy for years, but it's just not right.

 

Not saying that these women getting involved with married men don't have their own fault, but you can only control your behavior.

 

So what you should do is cut contact with this woman completely and next time you feel like cheating, don't drag them on for years. Don't only think about your "needs", you are dealing with people, they also have their own "needs".

[Whoknew30]

Not all men can just go have Sex with someone they don't really know. The mental part of it, the flirtation, the getting to know you....is all part of foreplay for some men. So yes it makes you seem like there is something more...but in reality all those talks and words were still just with the intent to have sex.

 

Women tend to. Get attached to the person, men in this situation get attached to the courting to sex process...

 

They're not attached to the "courting" they're attached to the ego feed.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

I just don't agree with the "predator" comments. But, everyone has their right to their opinion. Who am I to judge?

 

I told another of the guys in my group how xmm had targeted me and I had seen him emailing a 2nd woman and she told me he was also contacting the 3rd.

 

There are only 3 women out of 25 guys. This guy was pissed and called him a predator, said he is targeting our women in our organization and going to cause massive problems legally. Go on tinder and hook up.

 

So to me a predator goes after women in the same place, one after the other. Cold, cunning and destroying.

 

I do not think you are like that.

[sandylee1]

The fact is that those things hurt, but it was not the affairs as much as it was the drugs.

 

I was never intimidated by the men she choose to have affairs with

 

I didn't realise there was more than one man.

Did she have a reason for stepping out? More than once?

 

I just don't agree with the "predator" comments. But, everyone has their right to their opinion. Who am I to judge?

 

 

The predator comment is a load of bull in my opinion. It's what people say when they refuse to accept responsibility and rather lay all the blame at the feet of the MM.

 

When anyone gets into a relationship with a MM or MW, you should know you the score. Enjoy it while it lasts and don't go psycho or stalkerish like so many do.

[Grapesofwrath]

Blues: You have a unique style, I'll give you that.

 

In this case, I think the OW may have the characteristic that defines many OW: We want only something that we cannot have. It sounds like she has that dynamic to her personality, which may have been why she was willing to participate in the A for so long and why she is still struggling to let go. This is something that only she can resolve for herself. Best thing you can do is go NC and stay NC. She will turn her focus elsewhere before long.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Grapesofwrath