Is paying for dates a solution? [I.e. An "arrangement" type scenario?]

[NuevoYorko]

RBF is actually perceived by most as "contempt", if that is what is coming across, then I guess it may explain your lack of success in dating and in making friends. People tend to take their cues from feedback and if the feedback they are getting from you, is the look of contempt, then no-one will want to take that further, no matter how nice and kind you say you are or appear to be by your actions.

OP - I haven't read any of your other threads yet, but from this one I'm getting that not only may you have an "RBF" that signals contempt - you actually do feel contemptuous of other people. You seem to have a superiority complex. It may well be a defense mechanism, but you are very demonstrative of it here on this thread. It's not hard to imagine that it comes across in person. Since you are adamant about not doing anything to improve yourself, in the (grossly erroneous belief) that doing so would be selling yourself out, you don't have much wiggle room.

 

Most successful people are able and very willing to address their own shortcomings, whether regarding work, relationships, reaching goals, or anything. An unbudging stance against that is self defeating.

[ZA Dater]

• I try to be who someone wants me to be. Partly true due to the fact as it stands nobody actually wants to be with me so if I try and be what people think I should be I might have more luck.
  
• am afraid to rock the boat. Not really.
  
• It is hard for me to know what I want. I know what I want, getting it seems nigh on impossible though I am not talking about K here, I talking in general terms of getting the experiences I want.
  
• I avoid speaking my mind. definitely not true but I temper this because then if I do people say I come across as aggressive even when I am speaking normally. I try avoid this
  
• I find it easier to go along with what someone wants or with their opinion. Again not really true BUT in the dating yes I will go on with what she wants because dates for me are impossible to find so when/if I were ever lucky enough to date someone I like I probably would capitulate to a certain degree.
  
• I fantasize about a strong person taking over my life and making it work. Not really, I do like the idea of having a strong intelligent person around though who can push me and challenge me, these people are about as rare as snow in Laguna Beach.
  
• It is hard for me to express my feelings when they are different from someone I’m close to. Never had this situation so I cant really comment.
  
• It is difficult for me to say No. Partly because there are so few people I do care about that I do tend to help them if at all possible but its not blanket inconvenience myself unduly help.
  
• I avoid getting angry. Anger is a counter productive feeling, the worst decisions are made in anger so I try and avoid getting angry, sure I still do get angry.
  
• It is hard for me to take initiative. Depends on the context, I take initiative everyday with the work I do, the articles I write, the advice I give.
  
• I try to be nice rather than expressing how I really feel. Again depends on the context, I am generally a nice person but I keep feelings to myself, nobody is really interested in hearing my feelings. The flip side is this barrier doesn't do me many favours when it comes to letting people in to how I feel, again I care not to be judged so its easier to deal with things myself.
  
• I want everyone to get along. Never going to happen but its an interesting thought, I do feel men need to treat women better on the whole and much would change if people exhibited more tolerance.
  

[ZA Dater]

OP - I haven't read any of your other threads yet, but from this one I'm getting that not only may you have an "RBF" that signals contempt - you actually do feel contemptuous of other people. You seem to have a superiority complex. It may well be a defense mechanism, but you are very demonstrative of it here on this thread. It's not hard to imagine that it comes across in person. Since you are adamant about not doing anything to improve yourself, in the (grossly erroneous belief) that doing so would be selling yourself out, you don't have much wiggle room.

 

Most successful people are able and very willing to address their own shortcomings, whether regarding work, relationships, reaching goals, or anything. An unbudging stance against that is self defeating.

 

You are wide of the mark on that one I am afraid, I harbour no contempt at all for others nor do I harbour any feelings of superiority, on the contrary I mostly feel like trash when I need to go to a gala dinner on my own "Oh hi where is your date" yes makes me feel really great that one or when I need to go to events and have nobody to bring. Superior isn't the word to describe that particular feeling or when I sit eating on my own surrounded by couples.

 

 

I have done much superficially to improve myself, I think it was gathered long ago that superficial attraction is the be all and end all of initial attraction. My idea of the world and what the world actually is don't quite tally up, that's the fundamental issue. Either I change or I accept this is my lot, that's really what it boils down to.

 

 

By my own admission I find making friends impossible, this is probably the core reason I cant date.

 

 

Again if I could find some decent pay company I would be able to overcome almost all of these issues. Assuming I could reconcile in my mind paying for something which is wholly fake.

[GemmaUK]

You had already answered one of the questions

 

It was do you smile?

Your response was this

I don't go out to be negative at all, I don't sing the praises of things either. In terms of smiling, its rare I smile.

And I asked what you plan to do about this?

So, what do you plan to do about that?

 

As regards the other question about your resting face, the actual subject was covered after I had asked you by another poster and she posted a link for you to read on the subject.

One more poster above me had also talked about it.

Have you been to take a look in the mirror so that you can understand what we mean yet?

[GemmaUK]

You are wide of the mark on that one I am afraid, I harbour no contempt at all for others nor do I harbour any feelings of superiority, on the contrary I mostly feel like trash when I need to go to a gala dinner on my own "Oh hi where is your date" yes makes me feel really great that one or when I need to go to events and have nobody to bring. Superior isn't the word to describe that particular feeling or when I sit eating on my own surrounded by couples.

 

I have done much superficially to improve myself, I think it was gathered long ago that superficial attraction is the be all and end all of initial attraction. My idea of the world and what the world actually is don't quite tally up, that's the fundamental issue. Either I change or I accept this is my lot, that's really what it boils down to.

 

By my own admission I find making friends impossible, this is probably the core reason I cant date.

 

Again if I could find some decent pay company I would be able to overcome almost all of these issues. Assuming I could reconcile in my mind paying for something which is wholly fake.

 

No offence intended ZA but you have totally misunderstood the 'contempt' part of NeuvoYorko's post because you didn't read that nor the post on page 2 properly about RBF (resting face). Please go back and read the link. The link asks you a question - it does no harm and just shows a different picture is all.

[NuevoYorko]

You are wide of the mark on that one I am afraid, I harbour no contempt at all for others nor do I harbour any feelings of superiority,

 

This is very contemptuous:

 

I am simply not prepared to modify my behaviour to fit in with what society thinks I need to be, I will continue to be this kind giving, honest, generous guy who doesn't drink an does sit around with the guys and critique the bust of every girl walking past. Sorry that isn't me.

 

And this:

 

I have done much superficially to improve myself, I think it was gathered long ago that superficial attraction is the be all and end all of initial attraction. My idea of the world and what the world actually is don't quite tally up, that's the fundamental issue. Either I change or I accept this is my lot, that's really what it boils down to.

 

Men with women in their lives are unlikely to be, generally speaking, awful boors who have capitulated to society. Or sell-outs all around. Sure, there are some. IMO you clinging onto these ideas is a defense mechanism you use to protect yourself. I can understand that, but ultimately it's holding you back from ever doing any of the things that could help you change your situation. You are firmly holding yourself stuck. I'm hoping that you are a very young guy and that some age and maturity will mellow your self righteousness and open you up to the many ways you can evolve. Anyway, good on you for working on the superficial stuff, for the present. I'm rooting for you to go deeper in time.

[ZA Dater]

You had already answered one of the questions

 

It was do you smile?

Your response was this

 

And I asked what you plan to do about this?

So, what do you plan to do about that?

 

As regards the other question about your resting face, the actual subject was covered after I had asked you by another poster and she posted a link for you to read on the subject.

One more poster above me had also talked about it.

Have you been to take a look in the mirror so that you can understand what we mean yet?

 

I don't really smile no. I have looked in the mirror and I don't see Picasso looking back me nor do I see Brad Pitt (probably just as well on that one) but I don't think I look bad but I guess I do.

 

 

As for smiling, no real plan there I am afraid, don't really have much to smile about to be honest. My life is lived doing attempting one challenge or another. There is one thing that makes me smile a lot and that's a drive through stunning scenery.

[ZA Dater]

This is very contemptuous:

 

 

 

And this:

 

 

 

Men with women in their lives are unlikely to be, generally speaking, awful boors who have capitulated to society. Or sell-outs all around. Sure, there are some. IMO you clinging onto these ideas is a defense mechanism you use to protect yourself. I can understand that, but ultimately it's holding you back from ever doing any of the things that could help you change your situation. You are firmly holding yourself stuck. I'm hoping that you are a very young guy and that some age and maturity will mellow your self righteousness and open you up to the many ways you can evolve. Anyway, good on you for working on the superficial stuff, for the present. I'm rooting for you to go deeper in time.

 

I am 32 and the Titanic sailed quite some time ago but thank

 

 

Funnily enough I look around at guys who are successful with ladies and they are all versions of the same thing. Those who stand out and be themselves generally battle to find success. Perhaps my viewpoint is wrong but this is the perception I have among the people I am around.

[ZA Dater]

No offence intended ZA but you have totally misunderstood the 'contempt' part of NeuvoYorko's post because you didn't read that nor the post on page 2 properly about RBF (resting face). Please go back and read the link. The link asks you a question - it does no harm and just shows a different picture is all.

 

I guess I fit the mould of expressionless, not sure about RBF though. Perhaps its telling I am attracted to a pretty face. I have been called expressionless before among a textbook full of other insults.

 

 

I wonder why ladies sign up to sites like seeking arrangement and look for a pure pay dating scenario, economic reasons, unlikely because on looks some could definitely land a guy who would look after them. Poor self esteem, perhaps.

[GemmaUK]

I don't really smile no. I have looked in the mirror and I don't see Picasso looking back me nor do I see Brad Pitt (probably just as well on that one) but I don't think I look bad but I guess I do.

 

 

As for smiling, no real plan there I am afraid, don't really have much to smile about to be honest. My life is lived doing attempting one challenge or another. There is one thing that makes me smile a lot and that's a drive through stunning scenery.

 

OK, so the things we all do to help make us approachable - smile and have a brighter than just resting face you aren't even willing to put into your everyday life?

Why not?

 

Even if you want to pay for company the women will soon cut you as a customer if you are not a friendly and approachable customer to be around.

It won't solve your problems it'll just extend them to a newly bad level.

 

Smiling at people, anyone, anywhere costs nothing and is such a great confidence booster when you get a great smile right back.

[ZA Dater]

OK, so the things we all do to help make us approachable - smile and have a brighter than just resting face you aren't even willing to put into your everyday life?

Why not?

 

Even if you want to pay for company the women will soon cut you as a customer if you are not a friendly and approachable customer to be around.

It won't solve your problems it'll just extend them to a newly bad level.

 

Smiling at people, anyone, anywhere costs nothing and is such a great confidence booster when you get a great smile right back.

 

 

I am friendly I just don't smile. Money will keep her coming back anyway I suspect but now I am being cynical.

 

 

Not sure I feel self conscious when I smile and most of the time I just don't feel like there is anything to smile about. I will agree you are probably right and maybe approachability is another of my laundry list of issues.

 

 

I think a lot of the reason I don't do things is the bad experiences I have had when I have done them, people say you should cast them off but its quite hard when there isn't a lot of good to mitigate the bad.

 

 

I'll take up your smiling suggestion even if I will feel somewhat false doing it (oh I don't have a very nice smile by the way, hate smiling for pictures I always seem to look terrible).

[ZA Dater]

The reason why I considered the pay date route was because the whole thing could be reduced to business and I wouldn't really need to care what she thought or didn't think of me, I would not feel any pressure to worry about "should I say that or not".

 

 

Yesterday I went out (tourist place) and there were so very obviously tourists looking for something or other, four girls probably mid 20s, yes there might have been an opportunity but I just let it go. Its pointless for me to try chase physical because I am just going to look stupid and I'd rather avoid that.

 

 

Experience its really what I need and again the pay idea comes off that need, ladies DO NOT want an inexperienced guy who has never dated, we have had people here admit that and in the cold light of day its particularly true.

 

 

For me its about trying to find some sort of middle road, I concede I am not likely to ever get what I want, its an hurtful truth so I need to find something that at least gives me some of the things everyone else seems to get to experience.

[GemmaUK]

I'll take up your smiling suggestion even if I will feel somewhat false doing it (oh I don't have a very nice smile by the way, hate smiling for pictures I always seem to look terrible).

 

Good.

Just a shame you threw 4 negatives in there...

 

If you do only one other thing I'd suggest you watch a series called Lie To Me on Netflix. For one it's a great series and if you pay attention to it itt might teach you something about facial expressions. You don't seem to realise how important they are just in every day life, let alone dating.

[ZA Dater]

Good.

Just a shame you threw 4 negatives in there...

 

If you do only one other thing I'd suggest you watch a series called Lie To Me on Netflix. For one it's a great series and if you pay attention to it itt might teach you something about facial expressions. You don't seem to realise how important they are just in every day life, let alone dating.

 

I don't really get facial expressions no. Just seems to me its a heck of a lot of effort involved for what basically is very little reward if you have to worry about each and every facial expression one makes! I probably don't have the best looking face either truth be told.

 

 

Back on Tinder, I did get one semi promising match though it takes her days to reply which suggests I am somewhat far down the pecking order. Unsurprising as she is an above average looking 20yo acting and drama student. On the face of it I don't expect much to come of it so am well cushion for that.

 

 

I sat today and actually thought about a lot of the advice I have been getting, its good advice, just really hard to apply in a practical way, I just feel completely overwhelmed to a degree. Probably my biggest problem is a large part of me has lost belief that I can actually get someone I like, I sort of go through the motions because I have to do something but I don't really find anyone I want to actually really try with and the rare times I do I then am left without a clue as to what I should actually be doing.

 

 

Undoubtedly I could probably do more but only if I really want the person and honestly speaking, that doesn't happen very often, want being I am attracted to them overall.

 

 

The pay thing has its main attraction in that I can project some sort of superficial wellbeing instead of projecting what I do now which is abject single and desperation. I am sure there are a great many people who think there is something wrong with me, people who have know me years and never seen me with a girl, this bugs me, it shouldn't but it does and on some level the pay date may eradicate this. The problem is I need and exceedingly high class individual and those are quite hard to find, I'd need that to try and make it look like its not a total sham. That last part makes it unviable for me.

[GemmaUK]

I don't really get facial expressions no. Just seems to me its a heck of a lot of effort involved for what basically is very little reward if you have to worry about each and every facial expression one makes! I probably don't have the best looking face either truth be told.

 

Despite this you said you'd try smiling at anyone and everyone - how many people have you smiled at in the past 24 hours?

[Imajerk17]

Thanks Imajerk!

 

Enough is enough is exactly how I felt - the only difference actually between you and me is that I threw myself in at an earlier age.

 

Some of these guys think they are throwing themselves in but it isn't 100%, it's not enough to scare the s*** out of them.

Thinking back at that story of mine and how I felt once I had decided to do it still makes me shake.

 

I have another story too.

I had dated one guy back when I was 17 - only for a couple of weeks, it didn't come to anything.

When I was 19 I became friends with a colleague who was engaged to a guy.

We would sometimes go out with other colleagues and her guy would come along too.

One night just the three of us went out to see a comedy show - very well known comedian - it was such a great night.

But her guy drove home and took me home last. He had a truck and he drove out somewhere and pushed me into the back of the truck - there was a mattress there. I froze and complied but never consented to what happened next but I lost my virginity that night in a way I wouldn't wish upon anyone.

I didn't report it - too much was involved - my work, my friendship with his fiancée.. I pulled myself away from my friendship with her.

I left the company and made some new friends.

One night I met this guy from the circle of new friends. We flirted, he was shyer than me actually. He was 5ft 4in, had a shock of shoulder length red hair. He had a lovely smile, kind eyes and was sweet, not pushy.

We ended up chatting and then kissing on a few nights out after that. Neither one of us asked the other out but eventually we became FWB.

This will sound incredibly selfish of me but it was me who led the B part, part of the reason was there was some shy chemistry there, the other part was that I wanted to know that I could be sexual on my own terms as I thought maybe that would stop me from thinking about the experience I had had,

 

We had six months of fun together. He wasn't a virgin but wasn't very experienced and had one slept with one girl. I was basically inexperienced. He taught me the way and then I was the one to use imagination and think of ways to experiment (nothing kinky here btw) but I knew nothing, he knew very little.

 

I could have fallen for him but and it's hard to explain - it's like we were in it for the experience.

I ended it, all amicable but I knew I had got over the barrier of what had happened to me. Without him I am really not so sure that I would have.

 

I then had a relationship when I was 20 - a normal one and then met the man I lived with (14 yrs) when I was 22. I never did have a problem nor any fears sexually. Sweet guy helped me out with that massively - he never knew what had happened to me. I didn't ever tell him.

 

When I was about 30 that sweet red haired guy turned up on a night out. I felt weird first off as my partner was there and the sweet guy was with one of our circle of friends - they had previously worked together and this was a one off meet up for them.

Me and sweet guy said hello, had a hug and a little catch up. He told me he was now married with two little ones, I told him I was living with my man. Nothing about our past was mentioned aside from that we had been friends back in the day.

 

When he left he gave me a wave and we smiled at each other. It was really nice to see him after all that time.

A week later the usual group were out for a drink and later that night the ex-colleague of sweet guy pulled me aside for a chat.

Ex-colleague then told me two things which floored me.

He told me that sweet guy had often talked about me when they worked together as the girl who changed his life. Sweet guy had tole ex-colleague that had it not been for me seet guy would never have gone for the girl he ended up marrying as he said he wouldn't have had the confidence to do so.

 

Apparently, after I had walked in the night Sweet guy was there he had pulled the ex-colleague over and said 'That's her! She is the one I always talked about!'

 

The other thing he said that floored me was that Sweet guy had been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease.

 

I always think of sweet guy fondly, always have. I have never seen him again since that night but the ex-colleague would give me updates on how he was doing.

There is a coincidence about all of this too.

Whenever I think of that comedian I think of that awful night after having seen him live. That comedian was Billy Connelly who was also later diagnosed with Parkinson's, same as sweet guy.

 

Back at the time we both threw ourselves in - it was a learning curve and one which benefitted us both.

It was scary for me and I know it was scary for him too at the time.

There was a lot of vulnerability between us as well as a lot of fun.

 

If we had never taken that step though....

 

Wow! I am so sorry to hear that one of your early experiences was so bad, but I am really happy for you to hear that you had a great experience right after that with Sweet Guy.

 

********

ZA, I really don't know what else to tell you. Your posts and threads reek of misery frankly, and you seem to be rejecting every bit of advice that may improve your situation.

 

I am not a medical professional, but I really am thinking that seeing a licensed therapist may do you personally good. You may have depression (just a possibility, again I'm not a medical professional so I can't diagnose) and may actually need medication to break yourself free of the negative thought patterns you seem to be so deeply stuck in. It's clear that our pep talks and advice and whatnot just aren't helping, so you may need to go a level or two deeper to pull yourself out of this.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Imajerk17

[ZA Dater]

Wow! I am so sorry to hear that one of your early experiences was so bad, but I am really happy for you to hear that you had a great experience right after that with Sweet Guy.

 

********

ZA, I really don't know what else to tell you. Your posts and threads reek of misery frankly, and you seem to be rejecting every bit of advice that may improve your situation.

 

I am not a medical professional, but I really am thinking that seeing a licensed therapist may do you personally good. You may have depression (just a possibility, again I'm not a medical professional so I can't diagnose) and may actually need medication to break yourself free of the negative thought patterns you seem to be so deeply stuck in. It's clear that our pep talks and advice and whatnot just aren't helping, so you may need to go a level or two deeper to pull yourself out of this.

 

The bold bits of the important ones here.

1: I am not rejecting the advice offered, I am actually trying to smile a few times a day as suggested, its forced but I am trying it nonetheless.

2: Yes you are right you aren't a medical professional so perhaps its best not to dispense medical advice.

 

I think dating is something people learn right after they learn to socialise and those who battle with the latter face a massive struggle with the former. How many would disagree with that?

 

I am not a social butterfly so it figures I would battle with dating, I have certain wants when it comes to dating and perhaps those aren't realistic considering what I have to offer but that doesn't stop me wanting them. Quite simply I am not prepared to accept someone that doesn't measure up to what I want give or take. Again yesterday I sat in a coffee shop, looked around me and it struck me the level of desperation out there in society, I'd far rather pay for a date that beg and grovel the way some of these guys were in order to chat up ladies. It really was fascinating to casually observe while I read the newspaper.

[Blanco]

Sorry, but the above post is a perfect example of what others have mentioned in this thread. Intentional or not, a lot of your posts about the people you see in day to day life are so condescending and laced with a degree of contempt.

[elaine567]

Sorry, but the above post is a perfect example of what others have mentioned in this thread. Intentional or not, a lot of your posts about the people you see in day to day life are so condescending and laced with a degree of contempt.

 

I think it is very easy to go about the world and dismiss people right left and centre, we can always find fault as to why they are never "our" kind of people.

ZA dater has it down to a fine art and it means he doesn't really have to engage with anyone he doesn't already know, or anyone who doesn't fit into his narrow definition of what he thinks he wants. (but how does he know what he really wants if he never interacts with anyone).

 

With that MO, he is never rejected, BUT he never has any real social interaction either.

Until he breaks down the huge wall he has built around himself, and embraces life, then he will always be alone.

 

Maybe paying for dates is about being "in control", but what he cannot control is the stilted conversation, the long pauses, the total disconnect when his paid for date realises they have nothing in common, and ZA Dater does not have the social skills to rescue the situation.

 

Until he breaks out of his comfort zone and can socially interact with anyone whoever they are, then dates, paid for or not will always be a problem.

 

A therapist, life coach, dating coach could all help here, but I guess ZA Dater is too proud to ask for such help in the real world.

I guess, he doesn't want to be "judged", but better to be "judged and found wanting" by a professional person whose job it is to help, than to be judged and found wanting by all and sundry ad infinitum.

[Popsicle]

If you're going to pay, you might as well have sex.

 

Why order steak and potatoes and only eat the potatoes? Might as well have the steak too.

 

I read a book by an escort and surprisingly there are plenty of men who pay them just for their company and companionship. Some just want to sit in a hotel room and talk. It's all about making the guy feel comfortable and going at his pace, all while he has the assurance that he won't be rejected.

[Popsicle]

Well, if all you really want is a lunch date, I don't see much harm in paying for it. It isn't going to solve or improve anything in the long run though. At the end of it you are still without a girlfriend.

 

There is a change that happens to single guys who see escorts more than once. They begin to think of THEM as potential girlfriends. They begin to engage in what they know as the normal dating/courting process with escorts.

[NuevoYorko]

Escorts may be a good choice for you. On the other hand, I think it's likely that you will be put off with their "desperation" (to go out with anybody who can pay for it). Won't you be sneering at them?

[rester]

Let me address one thing here.

 

 

Therapy is an absolute waste of money par excellence. To sit an be judged by a person and pay them to do, no thanks I have far better things to do. To have every thing dissected by someone you cant question? No thanks.

 

 

I'd rather pay for the company of a pay date and get some benefit out of it than listen to someone telling me how I should do this and that and why I am wrong.

 

 

At least with a pay date I can have a nice dinner, walk around a bit, smile and for the most part of a gf for a hour versus sitting in a room talking to someone who themselves may not be good at dating either.

 

I'm going to change my tune and say that maybe paying for a date might not be such a bad idea for you. I do hate to condone it, but when I think about it more, why the hell not? Maybe you could discuss with your date your dating difficulties and maybe you will get some benefit from it.

 

We disagree on the therapy thing, but if all you want is to "have a nice dinner, walk around a bit, smile and for the most part of a gf for a hour", what is holding you back exactly? Have you made a written list of the positives and negatives?

[GemmaUK]

OP I'm glad you took up the advice to smile at people. It can feel false sometimes but it's great to get a smile in return from the guy who serves you your coffee or the old lady you hole the door for. It all adds up and gets easier.

Smiling with your eyes as well as your mouth is crucial too as it makes the smile genuine.

This is only a baby step though - you do realise that?

Smiling alone at folk will not get you dates.

 

I would suggest you look back over all the fantastic advice you had received (before we became aware that you didn't smile). Maybe give the smiling a few months practice and then come back to read the advice again. I bet in three months of smiling your attitude will have changed to some degree because your behaviour has changed.

That's how it works.

 

There is also the sauing 'Never change anything and you will always get what you always got' - again - yep pretty much 100% true!

 

Maybe paying for dates is about being "in control", but what he cannot control is the stilted conversation, the long pauses, the total disconnect when his paid for date realises they have nothing in common, and ZA Dater does not have the social skills to rescue the situation.

ZA, sorry to talk in the third person here but I will.

Yeah, this is it with paid company and this is why I posted earlier that I think the ladies may well not want him as a customer. If I were an escort whether for sex or just company I wouldn't continue with a customer whom I didn't enjoy the meetings with.

He's looking for high intellect (from what I recall from previous threads - please someone correct me if I am wrong) in a RS so likely will if paying also. Perhaps he knows of a 'high intellect' type escort agency - women who wants to discuss the high intellect things he does otherwise it's all down to chance.

Even those kind of conversations require sociability.

 

On top of all this though is that ZA is stopping himself, he is not open to change, sees it as beneath him. 'People' all seem to be beneath him.

He seems to think that he doesn't have to do anything in order to get a date/relationship/have sex but I bet there is not one person in this thread who has not done something to throw themselves out there in order to get one or all of those. We all have to throw ourselves in. All of us do.

 

I hope still that the 'enough is enough' feeling that both myself and Imajerk experienced at different ages and over different things kicks in for ZA soon.

ZA hasn't reached that point yet - is my optimistic/positive view.

[pteromom]

Thanks for this, much appreciated.

 

I don't really do Facebook.

 

So do it. It is in your best interest to open every avenue you have available to you. And the great thing about social media is there is no pressure on your part.