Met up and got closure, BUT ex is not sure [updated 2016-08-08]

[LD1990]

It sounds like your mother is giving you some good advice. Definitely lean on her through this difficult time. My Dad gave me great advice through my breakup, too. I followed some of it right away. The stuff he suggested that I didn't follow...well, I ended up doing it anyway a couple weeks down the road and wishing I had listened the first time he said it.

 

You seem like a nice woman, Bialy. Don't let this guy make you his woman on the side, because that's what he's doing right now. Gather up all your pride and self-respect and tell yourself that you're not going to settle for being the girl he texts and occasionally sees. It's very hard to be strong with matters of the heart, but you'll be glad you did.

[sooshi]

I like you, Bialy.

 

I understand about matters of the heart being so hard. It is easy for us to tell you to go no contact--we're not feeling for him what you're feeling for him. It'd probably be hard for me to turn down an invitation from my ex-fiance if he really, really wanted to see me. But if that happened, I would post on here (or at least I hope I would) to get some thoughts that would help to ground me.

 

Your mom seems very wise and has given you some wonderful, realistic insights. Like LD1990, gather up your self-respect and ensure that you don't settle... not for anything less than you want. We may not know each other, but I feel that you have so much to offer and that any man would be blessed to have you as their partner.

 

Whatever happens, Bialy, take care of your heart. I know this is such a heavy loss for you, and I feel for you. I still feel mine, almost three months later. I feel it very deeply. I know, as I'm sure most of us do, just how hard it is to really, truly let go. Or maybe what the really hard part is actually not holding on anymore--not holding onto the idea of how we think things should be/how we want them to be. Perhaps this is time to have faith that something more suitable for us will unfold, even if it seems hard to imagine the possibility of something better coming along later on.

 

You're deserving of someone who chooses you and who doesn't need time to think about it. Take care, Bialy.

Edited August 9, 2016 by sooshi

[SevenCity]

Thanks, sooshi. I swear, in other aspects of life, I'm strong, but with matters of the heart, it's so hard. If anything, these past few weeks of communication have made me feel a true sense of loss. He said he wanted to see me after I sent him several long texts about how I'm coming to accept that he's in deep emotionally and financially with his partner -- and that I need to accept this reality. It was my response to him saying "I'm working towards building a life with you. Trying to disentangle."

 

You're right, LD1990. My mom said something similar to me when I was talking to her over the phone.

 

She said something to the effect of, "I wouldn't see him on Thursday unless I knew what exactly he was going to say. Is he going to say something dramatically different? If he so much as says "it's going to take time" -- you have your answer and that is that he is not going to do anything. Stop communicating, you've given him enough time."

 

My mom also said, "I don't doubt that he loves you. I know he does and he probably DOES feel more connected to you than this other person, BUT he doesn't know what the hell he is doing and thinking. He's in a relationship and yet he's sharing emotional intimacies with you - he's potentially going through a mid life crisis and you're just fueling it. Let it go. He's confused enough as it is."

 

It is totally disingenuous for me to say that this is the last time I'll see him when I've already said that twice before. My mom called me out on that. "This won't be the last time you see him, I don't doubt that, but you need just let this be and let time pass --- as in several years after you've moved on -- and at that point, you may or may not want to see him again."

 

This entire situation breaks my heart. I really think he wants to be with you - whether or not he acts on it is something else.

 

Do what's best for you. I'm sure you will see him on Thursday. Please post what happened.

[Bialy]

You're deserving of someone who chooses you and who doesn't need time to think about it. Take care, Bialy.

Thank you so much, sooshi. Your post means a lot and this last bit in particular is something I will tell him on Thursday as I suspect I know how things are going to pan out.

 

This entire situation breaks my heart. I really think he wants to be with you - whether or not he acts on it is something else.

 

Do what's best for you. I'm sure you will see him on Thursday. Please post what happened.

It's pretty awful. Everyone close to me who who has been following the situation for the past 7-8 years (three relatives) --- they know he loves me and wants to be with me, but he's in such a financial entanglement with his current partner that he just doesn't have the proverbial balls to take a risk.

 

I feel sadness and will move on (I have no choice, I've tried my best to throw a lifeline back to me) -- I'm afraid he's going to regret this now or later on in life.

 

Life is short. It's taking me a while to get to the point where I realize that I need to move forward. I love him and support him no matter what - but I just can't have this open-ended anymore.

[jen1447]

Is this the same trickery house-co-owning guy we were talking about before? I'm not asking so I can beat you up about it lol, just wondering how you got from the "I'm onto you, best of luck w your life and your GF and your house" discharge to this angsty salvage routine thing.

 

I know there's always angst, I just don't know how he got back in your good graces at all.

[juniorrocha]

You know what you have to do, which is move on with your life. He may love you very much, but he's not giving you a thing. You don't have to wait. You can't waste your time waiting. Words mean nothing. Move on. And move on now.

 

Maybe after he figures out what he wants he will come to you, but don't accept it the way it is now. You're just sitting there waiting for him and his empty promises, and giving excuses to justify his actions. At the end of the day, if the wish of being with you was that big, he would be with you by now.

 

It's clear you can't accept it now. But with time you will. You have to start moving on, though.

[SevenCity]

Thank you so much, sooshi. Your post means a lot and this last bit in particular is something I will tell him on Thursday as I suspect I know how things are going to pan out.

 

 

It's pretty awful. Everyone close to me who who has been following the situation for the past 7-8 years (three relatives) --- they know he loves me and wants to be with me, but he's in such a financial entanglement with his current partner that he just doesn't have the proverbial balls to take a risk.

 

I feel sadness and will move on (I have no choice, I've tried my best to throw a lifeline back to me) -- I'm afraid he's going to regret this now or later on in life.

 

Life is short. It's taking me a while to get to the point where I realize that I need to move forward. I love him and support him no matter what - but I just can't have this open-ended anymore.

 

Although my situation is different in many ways ultimately it's the same. You've got a guy who wants to come back but is in a new RL and bought a house. Mine says she loves me, acts like she wants to get back together, but is afraid of getting hurt or not being able to let go of the past.

 

We've both made ourselves too available and I think the only way to get closure is for us to move forward and cut them off. I'm giving it until Labor Day which will be at about the three month mark. I can't do this much longer as its killing me.

 

I think it's only when they realize that we are gone will they be forced to action. I just hope for everyone that it's not too late by the time they realize.

[Densel]

You are not over him and he is not over you.

 

The bloody problem is he is finding it hard to cut ties with the new girl.

 

If he dont find the courage to break up with her and persue his own happiness, he is not worth it.

 

Tell him to stop leading you on.

[lana-banana]

The direction of this thread is really sad. Had you gone NC with him in the beginning, you would be that much further along your path to healing. As it stands you haven't even started, because every contact with him just rips open the wound.

 

Can we please stop painting him as some kind of victim? No one put a gun to his head and told him to start a new relationship, sign a mortgage, and plan for a life together. What's worse is he had a chance to come clean about his situation and instead he lied, repeatedly, and is now trying to make you complacent in the deception. He made all of these decisions as a grown, capable adult, and if he regrets them that's his own problem. To be honest I think his only regret is that he can't have his cake and eat it too.

 

Speaking of cake-eating, Bialy, I think you need to spend a lot of time in the "Other Man/Woman" subforum. Make a week of it if you have to. Read every single thread started by an eager OW describing her poor, innocent MM trapped in a loveless relationship with his monstrous witch of a wife. Of course he wants to leave her but they have kids, it's too complicated financially, her parents are sick and he feels guilty, pick your excuse. But they aren't even sleeping together, of course; they're basically roommates. The poor MM is just so helpless, but he promises her that some day soon they'll be together...Yeah. Read every single one of those threads. See how they turn out.

 

I have no doubt your meeting today will be even more sob stories to play on your pity. So far it seems to be working; you sound like you're star-crossed lovers kept apart by destiny. With all due respect, that's a crock of bull. The only reason you aren't together right now is because he isn't interested in making it happen (but no doubt he'll try to persuade you otherwise). Sure, maybe he does care about you, but not enough to do anything about his current circumstances. He would rather try to squeeze you in to his current life on the side rather than do anything himself. You shouldn't be sad, you should be LIVID.

 

You deserve so, so much better than this, Bialy. I wish you well and hope you can begin true healing soon.

[LD1990]

So far it seems to be working; you sound like you're star-crossed lovers kept apart by destiny. With all due respect, that's a crock of bull. The only reason you aren't together right now is because he isn't interested in making it happen (but no doubt he'll try to persuade you otherwise).

 

This x1,000. When did this all turn into some twisted fairy tale?

 

People seem to be assuming that this guy is stuck with his new girlfriend solely because of what he's telling Bialy. He bought a damn house with her less than a month ago. That means one of two things:

1. He actually feels pretty strongly about her since that's a serious commitment.

2. He doesn't care about her but still went in on a house with her, which would make him as dumb as a rock.

 

If this guy was so in love with Bialy, he would have bought his new girlfriend out of his house, let her buy him out, or convinced her to sell it. And before anyone mentions the money he might have lost, keep in mind that he offered to help Bialy buy an apartment, so clearly it's not about money. It's about keeping things cool with his girlfriend while having a woman on the side.

[Sunkissedpatio]

But this is a classic tale of unrequited love and the man was "forced" to move on because Bialy wasn't sure she could have a future with him. It took him moving on for her to decide she wanted him and clearly he never stopped loving her or wanting her, she has been calling the shots if you will.

 

It's not that he is a victim but you can see how someone can be forced to move on with their lives due to unrequited love but continue to have feelings for the one that got away.

 

In that sense it is a bit of a tragic tale. I feel for both of them. And he cannot just be expected to drop everything with the new woman too, I feel for his decision a bit.

 

I've heard many many stories that people will go as far as marrying someone else they are mildly interested in but never stop loving the one that got away. Sad but true.

[Densel]

The above is so true.

 

Some people will find a partner for the sake of finding one. They dont want to be alone, so any woman or man that comes along, shower them with affection and they will take it.

 

It doesnt matter if they really love the person. They will look happy on social media to get validation, thats how they want to live their life.

[SevenCity]

But this is a classic tale of unrequited love and the man was "forced" to move on because Bialy wasn't sure she could have a future with him. It took him moving on for her to decide she wanted him and clearly he never stopped loving her or wanting her, she has been calling the shots if you will.

 

It's not that he is a victim but you can see how someone can be forced to move on with their lives due to unrequited love but continue to have feelings for the one that got away.

 

In that sense it is a bit of a tragic tale. I feel for both of them. And he cannot just be expected to drop everything with the new woman too, I feel for his decision a bit.

 

I've heard many many stories that people will go as far as marrying someone else they are mildly interested in but never stop loving the one that got away. Sad but true.

 

I did that. Big mistake.

 

When the pain of losing someone is so strong and there is someone there who eases it, it's hard not to pursue it even if it's the wrong move.

 

I knew from day one in my marriage I wasn't happy. After all the hoopla ends it really gets bad.

 

I get what this guy is going through. He's afraid because he's moved on but Bialy has given him hope. Nothing but words on her part.

 

I'm not saying she's not sincere, but I bet you he's doubting it.

 

Honestly, if I was in his shoes I would expect proof. Like sex proof.

[Bialy]

Thanks all. This discussion really helps. I'm going into this with clear questions.

 

-Have you told her?

-Has anything changed since the last Sunday we met?

 

If his response is that it's "complicated" - "difficult" - "needs more time" -- I need to move forward. I've jotted down what I will say to make sure I don't miss anything. I DO NOT WANT OPEN-ENDEDNESS. That's how last time ended - it's the WORST.

 

Honestly, if I was in his shoes I would expect proof. Like sex proof.

I agree, but the problem here is that he's in a relationship and living with someone.

 

If he was single, randomly/casually dating, and living solo, that's a *totally* different story. It's the "living with someone" part that doesn't make this an option.

 

That's not to say things have been completely pure - when we are around each other, we act like a couple in public - as if we have never been separated or had any time apart at all. It's weird. And it's wrong. And I wouldn't want anyone doing that with a future partner of mine.

[JewelD]

Thanks all. This discussion really helps. I'm going into this with clear questions.

 

-Have you told her?

-Has anything changed since the last Sunday we met?

 

If his response is that it's "complicated" - "difficult" - "needs more time" -- I need to move forward. I've jotted down what I will say to make sure I don't miss anything. I DO NOT WANT OPEN-ENDEDNESS. That's how last time ended - it's the WORST.

 

 

I agree, but the problem here is that he's in a relationship and living with someone.

 

If he was single, randomly/casually dating, and living solo, that's a *totally* different story. It's the "living with someone" part that doesn't make this an option.

 

That's not to say things have been completely pure - when we are around each other, we act like a couple in public - as if we have never been separated or had any time apart at all. It's weird. And it's wrong. And I wouldn't want anyone doing that with a future partner of mine.

 

Seriously, he's buying furniture for their new home together! You're putting yourself through torture to ask questions you already know the answers to. He's been stringing you along this entire time and he will continue to do so as long as you allow him to.

 

If he truly wanted to be with you, he would have ended it by now. Point blank period. He's not with her because you forced him to move on, he's with her because he wants to be. Nobody puts a down payment on a house with a temporary rebound.

 

If you know what you're doing has been wrong, as far as basically 'dating' this man who is in a relationship, why are you going to meet him again? To see if you can convince him to hurry up and end it? Even if he did, you would likely lose him the exact same way you got him. Better off letting it go like you originally intended.

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

If you know what you're doing has been wrong, as far as basically 'dating' this man who is in a relationship, why are you going to meet him again? To see if you can convince him to hurry up and end it? Even if he did, you would likely lose him the exact same way you got him. Better off letting it go like you originally intended.

 

Well there are men in this very thread claiming they did exactly that, move on because they had to not because they wanted to. I don't get how men can do this but they do.

 

Bialy you really should take caution in your part in all this, you did go from a closure meeting to now several meetings since. Be very careful, the road to being a complice in an affair is a slippery slope you may think you have handle on but won't realize just how slippery it is until you are partway if not all the way down the hill.

 

But I agree with you wholeheartedly JewelD this could be undying love or it could be that she will lose him the same way she got him. I am a firm believer that people who leave partners for someone else will do the very same thing when there are problems in the new relationship. Problems are inevitable but a person who has already justified in their head the reasons they pursue someone new before making a clean break, will use the same rationale when faced with problems down the line.

 

Once you cross that line, you have normalized the behaviour.

[lana-banana]

From the very first post in this thread:

 

And I'm hurting. I'm not grieving so hard. We never lived together and our final year we basically were platonic, but very affectionate and loving because it just didn't feel right to me. Over the years, I was hesitant to take our relationship seriously for many reasons...Then I learned he was dating someone that final year we were in a grey area, but he never told me. He would always accuse me of seeing someone, but I wasn't... Now I realize he was projecting this on me. He was the one actually seeing someone.

 

Bialy, there's a reason you weren't able to take your relationship seriously. Back when you guys were a real couple---you know, ostensibly dedicated to each other first and foremost and all that, the kind of situation you're hoping for now---he STILL lied to you and chose to date someone else. What an amazing and romantic and epic love story, am I right?

 

Your energy is better served on exploring why you feel so attached to someone who treated you so poorly. You said it was your first real relationship, which explains a little, but it's nowhere near enough to justify why you want to love someone who never committed to loving you even when he had the opportunity.

[JewelD]

Well there are men in this very thread claiming they did exactly that, move on because they had to not because they wanted to. I don't get how men can do this but they do.

 

Bialy you really should take caution in your part in all this, you did go from a closure meeting to now several meetings since. Be very careful, the road to being a complice in an affair is a slippery slope you may think you have handle on but won't realize just how slippery it is until you are partway if not all the way down the hill.

 

But I agree with you wholeheartedly JewelD this could be undying love or it could be that she will lose him the same way she got him. I am a firm believer that people who leave partners for someone else will do the very same thing when there are problems in the new relationship. Problems are inevitable but a person who has already justified in their head the reasons they pursue someone new before making a clean break, will use the same rationale when faced with problems down the line.

 

Once you cross that line, you have normalized the behaviour.

 

Moving on is always a choice because there is always the other option of staying single and waiting around for that person (unless they're dead). I don't think most men are going to commit to their new love interest in the way that this man has unless they really wanted to.

 

Oh, she doesn't want me, time to go find a new woman and buy a house! He probably really cares for this woman but OP has brought up some old feelings. But the old feelings are not trumping his new feelings for his girlfriend. If it was true love on both ends, this house and this woman would not be able to stop it.

[LD1990]

How exactly are you going to trust any answers he gives you? You asked him point blank last time if she bought the house with him and he lied to you. Now, regardless of anyone's feelings on whether this is true love or just a guy trying to have two women, isn't that a pretty huge red flag for a potential partner? This wasn't some tiny little white lie. He committed to a $600,000 house with another woman and lied to you about it.

 

I also don't see why these in-person meetings, which you know are wrong, are necessary for questions you could ask on the phone or in a text message. You've mentioned how this guy is terrible at confrontations, but you don't seem any better, to be quite honest. He tells you he wants to meet Thursday and you just go along with it. Honestly Bialy, if you wouldn't want someone doing this with a future partner of yours, why do you feel it's OK to do it with your ex?

[juniorrocha]

Well there are men in this very thread claiming they did exactly that, move on because they had to not because they wanted to. I don't get how men can do this but they do.

 

That happens and I'm an example of that. My ex dumped me even though I was the one with plenty reasons to dump her. Still I had to learn and start moving on (not 100% yet), even not wanting to, because there was no choice.

 

Still OP, while I do believe your ex may have strong feelings for you, he may also have intense feelings for his current partner. Regardless, right now, is he with you or with her? Take the answer as a motivation to move on.

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if he's in love with you or not. If he wants you back or not. He can't carry two relationships at the same time. He's living with her, so like others here have said, you'll be the other woman. You once had it all and you gave it up, now you deal with the consequences. Live and learn.

 

And let him resolve his life.

 

Moving on is always a choice because there is always the other option of staying single and waiting around for that person (unless they're dead)

 

Would you give that as an advice to anyone on Earth?

Edited August 11, 2016 by juniorrocha

[Sunkissedpatio]

Moving on is always a choice because there is always the other option of staying single and waiting around for that person (unless they're dead). I don't think most men are going to commit to their new love interest in the way that this man has unless they really wanted to.

 

Oh, she doesn't want me, time to go find a new woman and buy a house! He probably really cares for this woman but OP has brought up some old feelings. But the old feelings are not trumping his new feelings for his girlfriend. If it was true love on both ends, this house and this woman would not be able to stop it.

 

Obviously he really cares for her, he cares enough to move in with her but if faced with the choice of having the love oh his life or having this new woman he clearly wants the love of his life. Things got complicated now and he cannot just leave this new woman over night.

 

Look I am by far in agreement that though this isn't a cut and dry situation, Bialy should continue to entertain what this guy wants. But I do see that in reading this entire story that Bialy has played a major role in this relationship at keeping this guy at an arm's length in terms of fully wanting to commit to him. It sounds like a lot of the decisions he has made, including the girl he dates during their early split that he failed to mention was done in secret because he was maybe hoping Bialy would come around again. This new relationship is a lot further down the line where more experience together has happened and he may have walked away from Bialy this time around feeling like" OK I gave it my all, we did try and she just isn't meant to be for me so I must move on" Sure the ideal thing would be for him to take time off to himself and not complicate another woman's life in the process but I am learning that a LOT of men, or people in fact, function in this way.

 

I don't condone it nor do I understand it. I want no part in being with someone new when I just get out of a relationship whether I am the dumper or dumpee, and I wan't no part of a man that is leaving a relationship (for as compelling as the reason my be his relationship isn't working) to be with me. NO PART of that thank you very much.

 

But in this case, leaving all my moral values aside and my existential experiences, I am seeing it a lot more complicated than a simple "guy wants his cake and to it too" Here is a guy who wanted Bialy for a long time and for whatever reason she could and would not commit to him and his confusion is also fuelled by Bialy's actions. It isn't all so one sided.

 

And Bialy I like you and wish you the best I don't mean to offend you in any way by stating that you also did things to confuse him, surely you must know this already anyway.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[JewelD]

 

 

Would you give that as an advice to anyone on Earth?

 

It's not about giving advice, it's the simple fact that moving on is a CHOICE. There are plenty of people on these boards who are pining after people who are married or living across the world or just plain don't want them and never will. Just because you don't have the option of being with a person doesn't mean you have to move onto a new relationship. You CHOOSE to do that. Nobody can force you to move on but yourself. If it was possible, there would be fewer posts in the 'coping' section.

 

To say that this man was forced implies that OP had some control over his decision and that his love for her this entire time has been exactly the same and the only thing standing between them is his new situation. He's not married or being held captive. It's really not that complicated of a situation for him to resolve if he wanted to be with her.

 

From what she's said, he doesn't even really respect her. He's asking her out on bike rides and to see movies while he is still with this other woman. A man who was truly in love with a woman would not be trying to groom her for the side chick position.

 

He probably is just relishing in the fact that the tables have turned and now she is the one chasing him instead of him chasing her. It's an ego boost, especially when she keeps meeting him and he keeps feeding her the same tired lines. Somebody who cares for you even a little is not going to do that to you.

[Sunkissedpatio]

To say that this man was forced implies that OP had some control over his decision and that his love for her this entire time has been exactly the same and the only thing standing between them is his new situation. He's not married or being held captive. It's really not that complicated of a situation for him to resolve if he wanted to be with her.

 

 

No,the only thing standing in his way is actually Bialy. If you observe all the patterns of their relationship over the years and what she has described here, she says jump and he says how high regardless of what he is trying to achieve on his own. He isn't waiting around for her to decide no one in their right mind would. He is to blame for reopening that door but she is also to blame for reopening the door neither one is the victim in this situation is my point and yet they both are.

 

I am not saying what he is doing is right or fair to other women, but I am saying that for as long as Bialy keeps in touch with him it is clear that his preference is to be with Bialy. If it weren't he would have shut the door on her a long time ago.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Plus this situation has been messy for years, every time they break up they have still maintained contact one way or another. That's not normal, even for the most complicated of cases on LS that you will read it means clearly there is a lot there either one cannot let go of. And him getting involved with other women is just complicating thing even more. But Bialy cannot keep reaching out to this man creating some of that confusion too. I mean she had her chance to be with him and for whatever reason she decided he was not the one for her, not that he is fully involved with someone else she is still insisting to be in the picture and he as the lovestruck guy, is jumping through hoop every time she is in contact.

 

Now it is very complicated he just bought a house with the new woman, he can't just bail over night and he (as some of the guys also expressed here) must have his reservations too.

 

Still please DO NOT sleep with him Bialy. He knows how you feel you don't need to go that far to prove to him that.

[JewelD]

No,the only thing standing in his way is actually Bialy. If you observe all the patterns of their relationship over the years and what she has described here, she says jump and he says how high regardless of what he is trying to achieve on his own. He isn't waiting around for her to decide no one in their right mind would. He is to blame for reopening that door but she is also to blame for reopening the door neither one is the victim in this situation is my point and yet they both are.

 

I am not saying what he is doing is right or fair to other women, but I am saying that for as long as Bialy keeps in touch with him it is clear that his preference is to be with Bialy. If it weren't he would have shut the door on her a long time ago.

 

And yet she told him that he needs to leave that woman before they can be together and he hasn't done it so there goes that theory that he does whatever she says.

 

Just because a man entertains a woman while in a relationship does not mean he prefers her. Especially when she's the one being kept a secret. Logic like that is why so many women become long term sidechicks. They sincerely believe that a man lying about their presence in his life really values them.