Is it wrong or 'jerk-ish' of me to ask my girlfriend for a pre-nup if we got married?

[ironpony]

I'm investing in a business now, and I do not have a house now, but will very likely have one soon, and am looking. Before the wedding probably.

 

Well I have been told by a couple of friend as well as one of the posts, how would I feel if it was me who was asked to a sign a pre-nup.

 

What does that mean exactly? Should I be hurt, if it were her asking me to sign?

 

What is it about this, that she sees as a bad thing, to the point where she would actually cry and throw up over, as if I cheated or something?

 

She says it means I don't really love her, but is there more too it specifically?

Edited April 28, 2016 by ironpony

[whichwayisup]

Okay then. Should I not bother to get a pre-nup then if that is the case, and I don't have a business or a house yet?

 

Also my gf does work a lot. The reason why she doesn't have any money, is because her ex common law, cleaned her dry when she left him, she says, and she spent money that she had to pay her dad's medical bills since he is in ill health.

 

That info would have been helpful from the beginning because you basically painted her as someone who is bad with money and can't save up, spends a lot and isn't working.

 

You buy a house with her, pick it out with her. It becomes a martial asset. Not sure why you're hellbent on getting a house first and then making her sign a pre nup so she won't get anything from the house if there's a divorce.

 

And, you said you owned a business, now you're saying you're investing in one, or about to. The story is changing from what you said earlier and it does affect advice given. You made it seem like you have this big thriving business worth a lot of money that you wanted to protect.

Edited April 28, 2016 by whichwayisup

[ironpony]

Sorry for the confusion. I am trying to get a business started and it's slow going, but I guess I just have high hopes.

 

Well I have till Friday to propose to her or make a decision she says, or she will leave me she says, cause she has invested too much time, and I should know what I want.

 

What is the best approach when faced with this option? One on here said to not get engaged and just get married later. I could do that, if it helps us sort out the pre-nup stuff. What do you think?

Edited April 28, 2016 by ironpony

[whichwayisup]

What does your family think? Your friends think?

 

You just seem really confused and uneducated about the choice to do a prenup. Investigate, talk to a lawyer and keep your gf in the loop about this. I think because you're not sure what you want to do this keeps your gf on edge too.

[CarrieT]

Well I have till Friday to propose to her or make a decision she says, or she will leave me she says, cause she has invested too much time, and I should know what I want.

 

What is the best approach when faced with this option?

Walk away.

 

What kind of marriage could you hope for if you are coerced and manipulated into something on someone else's timeframe?

[ironpony]

How was I coerced and manipulated into it though? I want to marry her, I just thought a pre-nup was maybe best.

[whichwayisup]

She brought up whether or not I would ask for a pre-nup if we got married. I thought about it for a while and said yes.

 

So if she hadn't brought it up, would you have thought of this on your own and asked her for a prenup or did she plant the idea in your head by asking?

[aussietigerwolf]

I'm actually curious as to why she wants to marry you. You have painted yourself as a wealthy man with a quite profitable business and a house. You actually have neither apparently. The lass you have painted as an irresponsible, unable to save money type. Again, the actual story is different. Makes me wonder as well how you asked for this prenup to protect stuff you don't even have yet.

[ironpony]

Sorry for the confusion. I am setting my sites on a current house, and may buy it. But I have the money for sure.

 

And I would have brought up the pre-nup eventually, she just beat me to it.

[ufo8mycat]

How was I coerced and manipulated into it though? I want to marry her, I just thought a pre-nup was maybe best.

 

A pre nup for what though? You don't have any assets or equity!!

 

The thing with business is that they often have significant losses in the first 12 months an can be very capital heavy.

 

If anything - with a mortgage and a fledging business you are not a great financial investment either.

 

This puts a new spin on it for me. I would be upset as well if a partner who had neither a house or a business was trying to protect potential assets that were acquired during the relationship, let alone that appreciated while married.

 

You paint her as irresponsible with money and no earning capacity. Which doesn't sound true? Plenty of people get saddled with a financial black hole for being unable to spot a total douche canoe.

Edited April 28, 2016 by ufo8mycat

[ironpony]

Well now I am very confused as to what to do. Let's say we get married in December, but I get the business going before then? I thought that the money for the business was still the asset since I am using it for the business now to get started.

 

Should I just get engaged tomorrow then, since her deadline is tomorrow, or she is leaving me, and forget the pre-nup then? What should I do that would be fair to her?

[Art_Critic]

The gain from the worth of a business while married is considered a marital asset unless you specifically prenup it out, something to note.

 

Many states require that both parties have separate legal counsel while drawing up a prenup as prenups are supposed to be fair, while you may think you are trying to keep your assets from her in the event of a divorce she also has items to protect and her well being is also to be considered, a prenup that is unfair will not hold up in court and normally when kids come along that changes things.

 

In my state any premarital asset is not part of the marriage and inheritances as long as the money isn't commingled is not a marital asset so there is no need for a prenup in my state, while I have businesses and rental property those were around before the marriage, however any gain in worth of those items becomes a marital asset and one that is nothing more than used to offset something else during negotiations.

 

I know you think she isn't due anything during a marriage but in reality your wife would be due half the business worth if it was created during the marriage and she helped make decisions and helped with the day to day running of things.

 

There is also the postnup agreements to consider but your have to have 2 people on the same page for an agreement to be made.

 

Personally.. if you are willing to hurt the future marriage over a small sum of money then I think it says something and I think see will see what it says.

 

Another thing to remember, time changes peoples circumstances.. if you both have a prenup in place and let's say she come into a large inheritance and you are tapped out financially and you both want to but a house.. should she not buy the house because she is afraid you will get half in your divorce ?

 

Now.. if you are in your 50's.. then things change somewhat.. and prenups become more needed as the assets are larger and normally there is retirement to consider.

[CarrieT]

OP, you keep putting forward these hypotheticals, but have you spoken to a lawyer?

 

And what I said about you being coerced is this Friday deadline she has given you. THAT is manipulation.

 

If you have the funds to start a business or buy a house, than you have some assets that should be protected. Or not if you want to give her half of it because - honestly - if she is pushing you that hard to get engaged and married and she is as poorly equipped to be financially responsible, she is going to end up with half of what you have, because this relationship is not going to last...

[DreamP]

OP, go talk to your gf. This is your life that you are trying to build with this woman. TALK IT OUT! You are just trying to drive yourself crazy. People have given you lots of advice. They have specifically answered your question about whether you should get a pre-nup and/or get engaged. However, you keep asking the same questions.

 

I know it is not fun being given an ultimatum and it is not good in a relationship. But stuff like that happens all the time. Couples often do stupid, manipulative and selfish stuff all the time. Being in a marriage is about trying to work through that together. Go discuss it with her. Tell her everything you have said here about how you love her and breaking up with her would break your heart. Tell her you want to plan for both of you and ask her to just consider seeing a lawyer to get the details about the pre-nup. Tell her that after talking to a lawyer, if she still doesn't want to do it, then you won't make her sign one.

Edited April 28, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BlueIris]

Walk away.

 

What kind of marriage could you hope for if you are coerced and manipulated into something on someone else's timeframe?

 

OP, you keep putting forward these hypotheticals, but have you spoken to a lawyer?

 

And what I said about you being coerced is this Friday deadline she has given you. THAT is manipulation. …

 

It’s not manipulation or coercion to tell someone what you want for your life and to give a deadline for him to choose whether he wants to go the same direction.

 

After all, he knew this was her goal and he agreed to get married this year. He just hasn’t taken the action necessary to make that happen, so she’s got to make a decision just like he does.

 

He doesn’t have to marry her and they can split and pursue their paths apart. Then he can focus on his goals of getting a house and building a business and she can (hopefully) pursue her own goals.

 

If anything, this is the opposite of manipulation and coercion. It’s candor and decisiveness.

 

His discomfort in having to make a decision doesn’t convert it into coercion or manipulation.

[elaine567]

Okay then. Should I not bother to get a pre-nup then if that is the case, and I don't have a business or a house yet?

 

Also my gf does work a lot. The reason why she doesn't have any money, is because her ex common law, cleaned her dry when she left him, she says, and she spent money that she had to pay her dad's medical bills since he is in ill health.

 

she is as poorly equipped to be financially responsible, she is going to end up with half of what you have, because this relationship is not going to last...

 

I do not think a person who works hard, got cleaned out by her ex and who is paying off her sick dad's medical bills, is the same as the person portrayed as financially irresponsible and who apparently spends every last penny, in the original post.

Yes, she probably does spend every last penny she earns on her sick dad's medical bills, but...

[GunslingerRoland]

When you say you have enough money to buy a house do you mean you have enough money to walk into the bank and put your money down and you own a house outright, or you mean you have enough money to put 5% down on a house and own it with a mortgage. Because to me it's a huge difference.

 

 

If you have hundreds of thousands of dollars and you are marrying someone with absolutely nothing, I think a prenup is practical, and I don't think it should be an out of bounds discussion. If it is I'd be concerned that the person you are marrying is naïve about the risks that marriage may not last forvever.

 

 

If you're saying you have like $20K in the bank and you want a pre-nup, to me that is such a tiny percentage of any amount of money you're going to make as a couple, is it really worth the lawyer fees not to mention the fact that you're now saying that you think that you marriage is so likely to end in the early stages you don't want to risk losing a cent over it.

[ironpony]

What if I have enough to buy nearly a whole house right now, then what? The house I want right now, I just need 30k more then it would be payed for in full. But I can pay for the rest of it right now.

Edited April 28, 2016 by ironpony

[whichwayisup]

Why are you in a rush to buy a house now? Why not wait and see if she marries you and TOGETHER look for a house to buy.

[bathtub-row]

Here's what I think you should do since it seems you have no interest in talking to a lawyer about this. Forget about the pre-nup and get engaged. Just stop worrying about all this stuff because you're not being proactive and now you're faced with this deadline.

 

Also, you obviously don't want to lose this girl and I think that's your highest priority based on the things you've said. Once you're married, you're probably not as protected financially as you want to be anyway, even with a pre-nup. So either you have faith in this relationship or you don't. Either you want to go through a break-up or you don't. If you're really worried about your money, hide some of it in a Swiss bank account that she never knows about.

 

As I said, you talk about wanting to protect your assets but you haven't done a lot to do that. Nor have you and missy worked things out, and now you find yourself between a rock and a hard place. It's time to either pee or get off the pot, my friend.

[ufo8mycat]

What if I have enough to buy nearly a whole house right now, then what? The house I want right now, I just need 30k more then it would be payed for in full. But I can pay for the rest of it right now.

 

Go see a lawyer!! There are too many variables and many of them have already been addressed on this thread.

 

Why won't you just talk to your girlfriend about this?

[BettyDraper]

It’s not manipulation or coercion to tell someone what you want for your life and to give a deadline for him to choose whether he wants to go the same direction.

 

After all, he knew this was her goal and he agreed to get married this year. He just hasn’t taken the action necessary to make that happen, so she’s got to make a decision just like he does.

 

He doesn’t have to marry her and they can split and pursue their paths apart. Then he can focus on his goals of getting a house and building a business and she can (hopefully) pursue her own goals.

 

If anything, this is the opposite of manipulation and coercion. It’s candor and decisiveness.

 

His discomfort in having to make a decision doesn’t convert it into coercion or manipulation.

 

I disagree. Marriage should be agreed upon by both parties and not forced by ultimatums.

 

If someone needs to say "Marry me or else!" then that is not a healthy way to start a life with someone.

 

That kind of behavior is controlling and coercive.

Edited April 29, 2016 by BettyDraper

[elaine567]

Why are you in a rush to buy a house now? Why not wait and see if she marries you and TOGETHER look for a house to buy.

 

I agree, a friend of mine broke up with her long term bf as one day he went out and bought a house for the two of them to live in, without taking her into consideration at all.

[BettyDraper]

FWIW, I couldn't marry someone who is prone to tantrums and ultimatums whenever he doesn't get his way.

 

Marriage is about compromise and the ability to have a mature discussion is key.

[ironpony]

I agree, a friend of mine broke up with her long term bf as one day he went out and bought a house for the two of them to live in, without taking her into consideration at all.

 

How is him inviting her to live with him, not taking her into consideration? My gf only has $50 last time I checked so if I waited for her to pay for half of a house, it could take 30 years for her save up. Should I wait that long? I just would like a house now, and am at that stage in my life. Should I wait that long for her to save up for one as well, is that what you mean?