Is it wrong or 'jerk-ish' of me to ask my girlfriend for a pre-nup if we got married?

[CarrieT]

OP, your solution is not too harsh at all.

[Methodical]

^^Carrie gave a perfect example of sensibilities mature individuals use to make informed decisions.

[d0nnivain]

One of the beautiful things in life -- a spouse can't touch their spouse's inheritance.

 

Not always. It depends on what the inheriting spouse does with the money. If it's deposited into a joint account where the other spouse has access, it becomes marital property. If it's in a separate account but the heir uses some of the money for the benefit of both spouses, say to put a new roof on the marital home, in some cases it can be deemed to be marital property. The rules are very specific & state by state.

 

Consult a lawyer not an international message board for your specific situation.

 

A pre-nup is sensible. But when marriage is so insecure that you have to go to these lengths, it defeats the object of marriage IMO.

 

A pre nup doesn't mean the marriage is insecure. You can have all the faith in the world but that doesn't negate the statistics. Always remember: marriage is about love but divorce is about money.

 

 

Okay thanks. But it was said that with a pre-nup I would only get to keep a very small portion of things anyway. But I guess I should speak to a lawyer first.

 

 

What if I told her, we should look over the pre-nup options with a lawyer, before just throwing it out the window. If she says no, should I say I am not getting married without one, or least looking over one, and then leave the decision of what she wants to do, up to her then? Is that too harsh?

 

No. You need to speak to a lawyer. You don't get to keep only a small percentage. You get to keep a good portion of what you brought to the marriage if the marriage ends quickly. The longer you are together the more likely you accumulated marital assets.

 

After you consult a lawyer you should have several long talks with your GF/FI about money & expectations. She needs to get her OWN lawyer. If you have 1 lawyer the pre nup will most likely be deemed invalid because she didn't have representation. If she can't afford a lawyer, give her the money to pay one. Do NOT pay the lawyer directly yourself & do not pick her lawyer for her.

[MissBee]

We are not technically engaged yet but we have talked about getting married often. She brought up whether or not I would ask for a pre-nup if we got married. I thought about it for a while and said yes.

 

She became very upset and started throwing up even. She said that if she were to marry me with a pre-nup signed, she would not have children with me cause there is no way she would bring children into that type of marriage.

 

I talked about it with my closest woman friend and she said that if she were in my gf's position, she would not sign one, because if a man asks a woman to sign one, it shows me has questionable intentions.

 

Was this a jerk move on my part? It's just my gf doesn't have any money hardly. She lives from paycheck to paycheck and has 50 dollars only in her bank account right now. Where as I have enough money to buy a house, which I am looking for right now. So with this current situation, I thought it would be best to say yes to one, just in case.

 

Is that wrong or negative of me? She says I have till next month to withdraw the pre-nup request, or she will break up with me, cause it's not worth continuing therefore. Or if she marries me, she will definitely not have kids, she says as a result of it. What do you think?

 

It's not jerkish, although depending on how you phrased it it might have come off that way. But in general, I don't have a problem with prenups. I mean marriage itself is a contract and you have legal paperwork and in the event of things not working out you still have a ton of paper work and "unromantic" elements, and I see a pre-nup as merely one of those "unromantic" but very much practical things that go into the marriage contract. Carrie made some excellent points about it that overall explains why pre-nups are simply wise in many cases and has nothing to do with how much you love or trust someone and as she pointed out, as time goes by, it can be amended as the couple sees fit.

 

It's up to you though to decide if marrying a woman who has $50 to her name and lives pay check to pay check would work for you in a marriage context....even outside of the prenup...are you okay with this for a life partner?

[BettyDraper]

OP, regarding your business, you *absolutely* should do a pre-nup to protect it and yourself.

 

I am a recently married, middle-aged woman whose then-fiancé asked me for a pre-nup. Yes, I was hurt at first. But I married a private practice doctor and eight years before we met, he went through a very contentious and expensive divorce because he had to buy back a portion of his own business from his soon-to-be Ex or keep her as a business partner for the rest of his life.

 

This is why you want to see a lawyer. And my now-husband insisted I get my own, separate lawyer (which he actually paid for), to make sure that my rights and own assets were protected as well. My lawyer did find a few things in my favor that neither of us would have thought about and I completely understand my husband's need to protect his business if our marriage didn't work out.

 

As we have now been married two-and-a-half years, he has already stated that at our five year mark (I'll be in my mid-50s and he closer to 60), he will have the pre-nup disbanded to ensure my financial future in case anything happens to him.

 

The joy of the pre-nup is that they can always be amended or disbanded at anytime during the marriage.

 

Those who are against prenups forget that the documents can be amended and disbanded.

 

They also think that prenups do not offer the partner who has less assets any kind of security in the event of a divorce.

[ironpony]

That is what she thinks too. She says that if she thinks she is going to get anything out of a pre-nup I am being naive. How can I teach her differently, that that is not the case?

 

Also, what if I showed her I was serious about marrying her? What if I got the ring and proposed, and then brought up the prenup thing later? That way, she knows I am serious and I already did it. What do you think?

[elaine567]

That is what she thinks too. She says that if she thinks she is going to get anything out of a pre-nup I am being naive. How can I teach her differently, that that is not the case?

 

Also, what if I showed her I was serious about marrying her? What if I got the ring and proposed, and then brought up the prenup thing later? That way, she knows I am serious and I already did it. What do you think?

 

OK but YOU are primarily wanting her to sign the prenup to protect YOUR assets, YOUR little nest egg, YOUR business.

In her mind you do not trust her to not rip you off, and that is not a great feeling, I guess, whether or not you put an engagement ring on her finger first or not.

[preraph]

I could understand a prenup if one party had, for example, a big successful company they'd built from scratch with no help from the fiance. But the prenup would have to be limited to basically what you brought into the marriage independent of the other person, but anything made or acquired after I believe should be jointly owned. If you ever loved a person, you surely wouldn't ever want them going back to having $50 to their name for any reason, even divorce. That, to me, tells me you don't love her. I wouldn't wish that kind of desperation on any of my exes.

[CarrieT]

If you ever loved a person, you surely wouldn't ever want them going back to having $50 to their name for any reason, even divorce. That, to me, tells me you don't love her. I wouldn't wish that kind of desperation on any of my exes.

 

This is what my husband did in our pre-nup. He needed to protect the business that he's been building for 20+ years and I appreciated that fact. But our pre-nup also states that I would receive a version of alimony if there were a divorce but that amount would be a separate figure, not based on the value of his business.

[bathtub-row]

That is what she thinks too. She says that if she thinks she is going to get anything out of a pre-nup I am being naive. How can I teach her differently, that that is not the case?

 

Also, what if I showed her I was serious about marrying her? What if I got the ring and proposed, and then brought up the prenup thing later? That way, she knows I am serious and I already did it. What do you think?

 

I think the two of you need to make an appointment with an attorney so that she can hear from an unbiased party what a pre-nup is and what it isn't. Your gf, unfortunately, is grossly naive and she needs to do some growing up in order to catch up with you. If she can't take that leap, then you've got a problem person on your hands. Obviously she doesn't have a lick of financial sense and, if nothing else, she needs to acknowledge this and respect your expertise in this area.

[whichwayisup]

That is what she thinks too. She says that if she thinks she is going to get anything out of a pre-nup I am being naive. How can I teach her differently, that that is not the case?

 

Also, what if I showed her I was serious about marrying her? What if I got the ring and proposed, and then brought up the prenup thing later? That way, she knows I am serious and I already did it. What do you think?

 

Since she is far from financially stable, maybe getting engaged isn't such a good idea.

 

When people marry that come from money, they want to protect what they have (inheritance or their parents have a trust put away for them) rightfully so but whatever you earn together as husband and wife becomes one.

 

You can't continue to bring up the pre nup, she's against it. You either marry her without it or you two break up, she's not going to sign it.

[ironpony]

No I don't want to leave her with just 50 bucks if a divorce should happen. Of course not. I just wanted to keep the house if possible, since I am paying for the whole thing myself, right now, before the marriage.

 

Is it possible to keep the house money with a pre-nup?

 

As far as breaking up goes, since I am in love with her, I cannot do it. I can say I want to her to go over a pre-nup and have one with me, but if she wants to break up, I will have to leave it to her to do it.

[d0nnivain]

Is it possible to keep the house money with a pre-nup?.

 

 

It depends. You will have to go to great lengths to make sure that she never contributes one penny toward the mortgage or upkeep of the house. Speak to a lawyer. If she cleans the house she may have some claim to the equity that develops while you are married however, it becomes a matter of you buying her out.

 

 

Again it's a case by case basis that requires competent legal advice from a licensed professional.

[BatManuel]

Didn't read through the thread, but I'm a lawyer and would always recommend a prenup to others as I've given plenty of legal advice to separating couples. I went back and forth on a prenup for myself with my EXgf and we finally decided against one. I was cool with this because our love was different, special, and I'm an idiot.

 

Anyways, a week before I was going to propose she dumps me and it turns out she was sleeping with a coworker for at least a few weeks before that. I'll probably be looking at a prenup if I can ever bring myself to date seriously again.

[BettyDraper]

No I don't want to leave her with just 50 bucks if a divorce should happen. Of course not. I just wanted to keep the house if possible, since I am paying for the whole thing myself, right now, before the marriage.

 

Is it possible to keep the house money with a pre-nup?

 

As far as breaking up goes, since I am in love with her, I cannot do it. I can say I want to her to go over a pre-nup and have one with me, but if she wants to break up, I will have to leave it to her to do it.

 

Love alone is not enough to sustain a marriage.

 

Common goals and attitudes on important aspects of life are extremely important. You are not meant to stay with every woman you fall in love with. It's possible that your girlfriend knows that you will stay with her out of love and use that fact to guilt you into a marriage. I certainly wouldn't put it past her given what you have shared here.

 

Ask yourself the hard questions. What kind of life can you envision with a woman who displays such immaturity and selfishness? She has shown herself to be very inflexible and manipulative.

 

If you marry and have children with your girlfriend without a prenup, it is entirely possible that she could get the house which you paid for because she would likely get custody of your children.

[preraph]

No I don't want to leave her with just 50 bucks if a divorce should happen. Of course not. I just wanted to keep the house if possible, since I am paying for the whole thing myself, right now, before the marriage.

 

Is it possible to keep the house money with a pre-nup?

 

As far as breaking up goes, since I am in love with her, I cannot do it. I can say I want to her to go over a pre-nup and have one with me, but if she wants to break up, I will have to leave it to her to do it.

 

Assuming you're going to be having kids, once you have kids, the house or the proceeds from it will end up benefitting the children and whoever their primary custodian is. When you marry, it's with the intention to share your life with her. This sounds more like she is just one more acquisition to you and she may never feel like she is at home if that's the way you are about the house. I mean, some states, yes, you leave with what you brought in and split acquired earnings or assets, but no matter where you are, once you have kids, like it or not, that dictates who gets what more than who paid for it will because those kids are your responsibility and you can't yank a house out from under them or expect them to live in a shack the week she has them and in your house when you have them. It will not be like that.

 

I don't think you're ready to marry anyone. You're not wanting to share and sharing and compromise IS what marriage is about. Why not let her get some schooling so she too can have a lucrative career and bring in some money.

 

Now, if I were in her shoes, I'd get my own attorney if possible and I'd make some conditions of my own, like if you cheat, the prenup is off. Both sides get to make demands in a prenup. And usually a big lump of money is granted to the other person as well.

[anna121]

I just had to respond because my husband and I ARE lawyers....and he really disliked the idea of a prenup! It just rubbed him the wrong way.

 

His income will always be somewhat higher than mine but I have a better pension.

 

Anyway, after looking at the laws governing property division in my jurisdiction I decided I was comfortable with the statutory regime.

 

Now, he certainly did not behave badly - nowhere near your fiancé. And I am sure he would have married me if I had insisted on one.

 

But I mention this just to say that otherwise rational people can respond really badly to the idea of a pre-nup.

 

Go figure.

[ironpony]

Assuming you're going to be having kids, once you have kids, the house or the proceeds from it will end up benefitting the children and whoever their primary custodian is. When you marry, it's with the intention to share your life with her. This sounds more like she is just one more acquisition to you and she may never feel like she is at home if that's the way you are about the house. I mean, some states, yes, you leave with what you brought in and split acquired earnings or assets, but no matter where you are, once you have kids, like it or not, that dictates who gets what more than who paid for it will because those kids are your responsibility and you can't yank a house out from under them or expect them to live in a shack the week she has them and in your house when you have them. It will not be like that.

 

I don't think you're ready to marry anyone. You're not wanting to share and sharing and compromise IS what marriage is about. Why not let her get some schooling so she too can have a lucrative career and bring in some money.

 

Now, if I were in her shoes, I'd get my own attorney if possible and I'd make some conditions of my own, like if you cheat, the prenup is off. Both sides get to make demands in a prenup. And usually a big lump of money is granted to the other person as well.

 

I want to share my house. But should I be entitled to some sort of security, since I am paying for the entire house? Do I have to share it to the point, to where I am sure to loose it, should anything go wrong?

Edited April 19, 2016 by ironpony

[Miss Peach]

I want to share my house. But should I be entitled to some sort of security, since I am paying for the entire house? Do I have to share it to the point, to where I am sure to loose it, should anything go wrong?

 

This is the sort of thing that really varies from place to place. Where I live it didn't matter if we commingled it with common funds to make the mortgage payments. I still could take with me the portion I paid into it with separate money off the equity. I know of other people who would have had to buy out the spouse for something ridiculous. This is why I would at least consult a lawyer for yourself regardless of whether you do a prenup.

[ufo8mycat]

It depends. You will have to go to great lengths to make sure that she never contributes one penny toward the mortgage or upkeep of the house. Speak to a lawyer. If she cleans the house she may have some claim to the equity that develops while you are married however, it becomes a matter of you buying her out.

 

 

Again it's a case by case basis that requires competent legal advice from a licensed professional.

 

This.

 

If the relationship ends after two years, she is unlikely to have much of a claim. However if the relationship ends after 15 years and she made other financial contributions to the relationship she is likely to have a claim, at least in part.

 

I am recently separated and owned a property prior to marriage. We were married 9 years and I offered him 50% of the property, even though I the majority of the mortgage repayments on the property, as well as all the bills. But he absolutely contributed financially and it does need to be recognised.

 

I am not sure about elsewhere, but here retirement savings (superannuation) can also be part of property settlements as it is an asset.

 

The longer the relationship, the less able you are to claim all mine, even with a binding financial agreement.

[OpenBook]

With all this discussion, my goodness I never realized that a pre-nup would drive financial decisions DURING the marriage! e.g., making sure you do (or don't) use certain money from certain sources to pay for certain things... just in case you split up in the future. Makes my head spin.

 

Also makes me wonder... wouldn't all that financial maneuvering kill the romance? put unnecessary pressure on a marriage? or at least add an unwelcome undercurrent of uneasiness to it... always planning for that "what-if" in the back of your mind?

 

Seems like a huge counterpunch to a happy union. Am I wrong?

[whichwayisup]

Your relationship won't have a chance in hell if you continue to nickle and dime like this, worry about the what if's. You're so afraid of losing the house (wow, you can buy her out or give her some money, IF you two DO divorce), losing your business (why are you marrying her? Is she a mean, malicious, materialistic money grubber?!) and your bank account.

 

Right now if I were in her shoes, I'd end it now. Your whole approach to this was unkind and put her on the defensive, it hurt her because she now feels you don't trust her or have any faith that your marriage will work out, and you seem to think the worst of her.

[ironpony]

Well I would want a pre-nup that was fair of course. But it was said before that she was being manipulative towards me. In what way is that?

[bathtub-row]

Well I would want a pre-nup that was fair of course. But it was said before that she was being manipulative towards me. In what way is that?

 

Crying and throwing up is one way she's being manipulative. Giving you an ultimatum is another. At best, she's immature and childish. The two of you need to meet with an attorney so that she can fully understand pre-nups. You need to understand what you can and cannot protect.

 

Money is one of the biggest reasons people divorce. Your marriage is already starting off on the wrong foot because you can't get on the same page. You may see this as an emotional issue for her but a lot of people are trying to tell you that her behavior is a huge red flag. It doesn't matter if she's truly clueless or not. If things fall apart after marriage, where will you be? And they can fall apart. She's not looking at any compromise here. She's merely behaving like a little girl. Is this how she reacts every time she doesn't get her way?

[DreamP]

Crying and throwing up is one way she's being manipulative. Giving you an ultimatum is another. At best, she's immature and childish. The two of you need to meet with an attorney so that she can fully understand pre-nups. You need to understand what you can and cannot protect.

 

Money is one of the biggest reasons people divorce. Your marriage is already starting off on the wrong foot because you can't get on the same page. You may see this as an emotional issue for her but a lot of people are trying to tell you that her behavior is a huge red flag. It doesn't matter if she's truly clueless or not. If things fall apart after marriage, where will you be? And they can fall apart. She's not looking at any compromise here. She's merely behaving like a little girl. Is this how she reacts every time she doesn't get her way?

 

Exactly.

 

Your gf has every right to be against a pre-nup (I am). She has every right to not want to have kids with a man that doesn't trust her. But her behaviors is what is concerning. Her inability to have any financial savings at 30 is concerning.

 

The fact is she has given you an ultimatum. She will not sign a pre-nup. You want to marry her regardless. Therefore you just need to bite the bullet and take the plunge knowing that you are risking it all.