this just happened

[OneLov]

I believe it is crucial that you both become assertive communicators.

 

 

"Lack of effective communication can lead to disputes, isolation & misunderstandings, all of which can cause emotional distress."

 

http://firststeps-surrey.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Communication_and_assertiveness_booklet.pdf

 

 

http://www.twu.edu/downloads/counseling/E-1_Assertive_Communication.pdf

[ladydesigner]

Well, the fun part about marriage is that, if you're in it for the long haul, you don't get to be too tired to do it anymore. You've got to suck it up and do it or you have to tell him you're not going to do it anymore, then either send him on his way or watch him as he heads out the door.

 

If you're going to stay married, not doing anymore is simply not an option.

If you're giving up, then you have no reason to expect him to not to anything different and should not be surprised when he acts accordingly.

 

Why is this not an option? What if the BS has put in more than their share and the WS is not what then?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Why is this not an option? What if the BS has put in more than their share and the WS is not what then?

 

 

 

remember that He believes Katielee had two affairs and she says one was a sexual assault. what would cause a husband to believe a sexual assault was an affair? Why would he doubt her story? Then he has two affairs to pay her back.....tit for tat.....

 

if this is the foundation on which the reconciliation is built....how can there be trust on either part?

 

she works very hard to give him what he needs to trust her again... she has worked very hard to address the issues which caused her to cheat in the first place.....she tries very hard to communicate with him.....yet he seems to be content and willing to just move on without really digging deep to address all of the issues.

 

So she is plagued with fear that he will cheat again....and he does nothing to ease her fears. She feels misunderstood....which makes her feel lonely.

 

They take two steps forward and one back.....

 

I can understand why she is tired....6 years of this kind of progress is fatiguing.

[Marc878]

hypervigilance? I picked up his phone because it dinged and i thought, oh no, he forgot his phone. I don't look at his texts otherwise.

 

fully reconcile with myself?

 

Look at it this way. He was comfortable to leave his phone laying around at home with no passcode.

 

IMO that says a fair amount.

[Marc878]

We've had the discussion. My friends and I were talking and they were all over Adam Levine and I said he's no where close to as hunky as my husband. They rolled their eyes. I told hubby later and said this is how I protect us... and by the way, it's the truth. He said he would do the same thing. I really don't think he would though.

 

I want him to understand me more. He likes the fun loving, positive, trusting Katielee. But to not be afraid of the insecure, questioning, analytical me.

 

hmmmm, he married you and has stayed married to you for a reason. So don't be to sure about this.

 

There are many good looking women out there and all men look but it's just window dressing.

[katielee]

Look at it this way. He was comfortable to leave his phone laying around at home with no passcode.

 

IMO that says a fair amount.

 

This is a good point. Although he forgot his phone. He DOES leave it laying around. He has a passcode on it. I know the code. Haven't used it in forever.

[Lady Hamilton]

Why is this not an option? What if the BS has put in more than their share and the WS is not what then?

 

Then you either keep working or you leave. Saying "I don't feel like dealing with this anymore," staying married, and then expecting the partner to do most or all of the work to fix the problem simply isn't an option if your goal is to salvage your marriage.

 

Besides which, she clearly puts a huge ton of the blame on where their marriage is now on his actions, inaction, mistakes, or (in the most recent example) the actions of his friends. So why would you want to put the whole fate of your marriage and your life 100% on somebody you accuse of being at fault for taking you where the marriage is?

 

If you're going to stay, you've got to do the work.

 

Clearly, OP has a lot of issues with herself and her marriage that she has to work out. Clearly, OP is exhibiting behavior that's not conducive to a healthy marriage. It's something she's got to deal with and work out. She can't leave those actions, which are hurting her marriage, unaddressed.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[katielee]

Oh I'm pretty sure I've done the work. Trying harder, in this instance, might mean actually detaching a little.

You don't know me lady Hamilton. You have very few posts. To assume that I havent done enough work on myself is pretty presumptious.

[xxoo]

Am I wrong to be pissed about this?

 

Not wrong, but at some point you have to either accept him or leave him.

 

You're driving yourself crazy, and he's not going to change. He's not even wrong to be how he is.

[katielee]

Not wrong, but at some point you have to either accept him or leave him.

 

You're driving yourself crazy, and he's not going to change. He's not even wrong to be how he is.

 

It's really hard xxoo. Accept affairs, accept not really caring about my feelings or making efforts to protect our marriage.

[xxoo]

It's really hard xxoo. Accept affairs, accept not really caring about my feelings or making efforts to protect our marriage.

 

I get that.

 

I also get him.

 

The marriage--like a vase-- has been put back together with patches and strong glue, it looks good and holds its shape, but there are still leaks and it's fragile.

 

It can't be rebuilt anymore than the two of you can be rebuilt. You have to work with the pieces you have, or scrap the whole thing.

 

But a new layer could be added. A lining, of sorts. It would still have visible cracks/scars, but it would be strong and watertight. Maybe stronger than ever.

 

That liner would be genuine intimacy between the two of you--real, deep connection and communication. It's the one thing that's been missing since the beginning, and it's the reason the vase broke in the first place. So to expect the vase to stay together, with the addition of all the cracks and leaky spots, is a lot to ask.

[katielee]

I agree xxoo.

 

So I need to accept a very leaky vase, when what I want is a liner. It takes two to make that liner.

This is when therapists say you can have a stronger marriage and I am asking how? We have the same one we had before. Not bad. But now the not bad has the cracks.

[xxoo]

I agree xxoo.

 

So I need to accept a very leaky vase, when what I want is a liner. It takes two to make that liner.

This is when therapists say you can have a stronger marriage and I am asking how? We have the same one we had before. Not bad. But now the not bad has the cracks.

 

The fights about texts and whatever else--while I get it--they just move you away from this.

 

Forget fighting for compliance. If you're going to fight, fight for this.

[katielee]

That's what I want. Deep emotional connection. I don't know what my role is in fighting for that. I've tried. MC, IC, books, retreats...

[Mrs. John Adams]

XXOO...I agree with you. However...she cannot help how she FEELS.

 

His behavior causes her to be frightened....and fear is fatiguing. Most animals...including homo sapiens are built with a fright /flight behavior for survival.

 

Every time he says something or does something that frightens her...her first reaction is to run....perfectly normal.

 

Katielee,

 

John was willing to live with a cracked vase for thirty years....I was not the remorseful wayward I should have been. He lived with that and accepted it...hoping the cracks would someday seal.

 

Thirty years...it took me...to give him all he needed.

 

Why? because he loved me and thought I was worth it.

 

Is your husband worth waiting on? Are you willing to give him more time?

 

Only you can answer this.

[xxoo]

That's what I want. Deep emotional connection. I don't know what my role is in fighting for that. I've tried. MC, IC, books, retreats...

 

He can only do what he's capable of doing, and also willing to do. That's where acceptance comes in.

 

If you had the deep emotional connection, the text wouldn't bother you as much. Or more likely, there would be no text.

 

Make this the focus of your marriage counseling. See if he's willing to do what they suggest. If he's not willing, you'll have your answer.

[Lady Hamilton]

Oh I'm pretty sure I've done the work. Trying harder, in this instance, might mean actually detaching a little.

You don't know me lady Hamilton. You have very few posts. To assume that I havent done enough work on myself is pretty presumptious.

 

I didn't say you haven't worked, just that clearly have more work to be done and in the context of a marriage, saying "I don't want to work on this anymore" and expecting that the marriage will be resuscitated after unplugging from it isn't an option... Just like you can't say at mile 9 of a marathon "I don't feel like running anymore, I'll just wait for the finish line to get to me."

 

It's not presumptuous to say that you have more work to do... You're not happy, right? You're unsatisfied in your marriage, with what you're turning into dealing with these issues... You've said as much. So logically speaking... That means there's work to be done. That's not an insult... That's just how it works when you find yourself in a situation where you're not satisfied. It means there's work to be done.

 

Listen, you can't change him, and I think some of the expectations that you've laid out are unreasonable and impossible to attain and you're putting way too much stock into little things that mean not so much in the big picture. So the solution is to accept either, A. this is how it's going to be or B. to make a change, you have to work on the only person you can control... Yourself.

 

Now, I'm not saying stop feeling, ignore everything, it's all your fault. I'm saying that you can go on another 10 pages about how your husband doesn't get it and get worked up and rant about how you don't understand how he's not getting you, or you can say "this isn't working, I am not putting up with it, I'm leaving," or you can say "maybe my expectations are unreasonable?" and self-audit your expectations and see if maybe there's something there that can be adapted to something that makes you less crazy. You can change how you react to the things that bother you, you can work on being more open and receptive to communication, you can work on building a life for yourself that you're happy with.

 

We've all heard the saying... The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That's clearly where you're at right now. You're trying the same techniques to deal with what you think is a repeated problem and getting the same, unsatisfactory results. Time to switch it up and try something else.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[katielee]

He can only do what he's capable of doing, and also willing to do. That's where acceptance comes in.

 

If you had the deep emotional connection, the text wouldn't bother you as much. Or more likely, there would be no text.

 

Make this the focus of your marriage counseling. See if he's willing to do what they suggest. If he's not willing, you'll have your answer.

 

Our MC visit was a tune up one time deal. Doubt he'd go back. The thing the MC did say was that he needed to give me more emotional transparency, then I'd feel safer.

I asked if he would have told me about the text if I hadn't seen it. He said no because it was no big deal to him. But that would have been an opportunity to talk about boundaries or other things...

Edited May 1, 2016 by katielee

[ShatteredLady]

Oh Katie, I hear this, "I asked if he would have told me about the text if I hadn't seen it. He said no because it was no big deal to him." or even worse "I was protecting you & your feelings!".

 

The thing is though, it was "No big deal to him" when she was reaching out for 12 YEARS when he was supposed to be zero contact with her! It was "No big deal to him" when I was pregnant & he sent a photograph of our toddler son to her!

 

If it was "No big deal to him" why did he save her 'Life Updates' in a file? If it was no big deal why didn't he tell me she had contacted him through 'Linked In' & he was spending a week deciding to send her a mushy, slushy, dragging her back-in message? If it was no big deal why did he email me "Sorry for f**king up our lives" at that same time?

 

Things might not be a big deal to him 'now' but life has proven that these things can be a monumental deal to me & our marriage! I want to be part of the decision!

 

He's proven himself not capable of correctly judging if something is a big deal or not to US. I NEED to know what's happening & what & why he's deciding that things aren't a big deal so, as you say, we can discuss boundaries & how I FEEL about things that could (or might not) damage our relationship.

 

The simple act of discussing things would bring us closer & make ME feel safer. If I believed that he was 'an open book' it would help me heal. Isn't that reason enough not to make unilateral decisions about what is & isn't a big deal in OUR marriage.

[katielee]

Oh Katie, I hear this, "I asked if he would have told me about the text if I hadn't seen it. He said no because it was no big deal to him." or even worse "I was protecting you & your feelings!".

 

The thing is though, it was "No big deal to him" when she was reaching out for 12 YEARS when he was supposed to be zero contact with her! It was "No big deal to him" when I was pregnant & he sent a photograph of our toddler son to her!

 

If it was "No big deal to him" why did he save her 'Life Updates' in a file? If it was no big deal why didn't he tell me she had contacted him through 'Linked In' & he was spending a week deciding to send her a mushy, slushy, dragging her back-in message? If it was no big deal why did he email me "Sorry for f**king up our lives" at that same time?

 

Things might not be a big deal to him 'now' but life has proven that these things can be a monumental deal to me & our marriage! I want to be part of the decision!

 

He's proven himself not capable of correctly judging if something is a big deal or not to US. I NEED to know what's happening & what & why he's deciding that things aren't a big deal so, as you say, we can discuss boundaries & how I FEEL about things that could (or might not) damage our relationship.

 

The simple act of discussing things would bring us closer & make ME feel safer. If I believed that he was 'an open book' it would help me heal. Isn't that reason enough not to make unilateral decisions about what is & isn't a big deal in OUR marriage.

 

that's just it, SL. IF something is a big deal to the other spouse, then it deserves to be talked about. It makes me think of trying this on him and saying hey, it's no big deal because I said it wasn't. I mean, really?

[xxoo]

Our MC visit was a tune up one time deal. Doubt he'd go back. The thing the MC did say was that he needed to give me more emotional transparency, then I'd feel safer.

I asked if he would have told me about the text if I hadn't seen it. He said no because it was no big deal to him. But that would have been an opportunity to talk about boundaries or other things...

 

Again, it comes down to willingness....

 

It sounds miserable to me to feel I'd have to discuss it with my spouse every time an obnoxious coworker made an obnoxious "wink wink nudge nudge" comment, which is probably every week in his line of work. Esp knowing that it's going to be a Big Talk every time. I can totally understand why he wouldn't feel it's necessary or even wise to bring that up. This is focus on the wrong things, imo.

[katielee]

And if there was a focus on the big things this kind of thing may not be a big deal...

 

I also didn't know it was a wink wink nudge thing. I thought it could be another affair.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It might be a potential affair for the guy that sent the text message to your husband.....he's the one who has a crush.

 

Your husband did not respond....he explained it to you....you talked about it....now let it go.

 

If it is still an issue in your mind....start checking his phone and e mails again until you prove to yourself this was nothing.

 

You know what to watch for....you know his behavior patterns.

 

Watch for something out of the norm.....

[OneLov]

Katielee,

 

I have two questions; do not feel as though you need to answer them or further explain yourself.

 

1. What was your specific goal(s)/expectations of going back to MC? Both for yourself and of him? I believe you said one was your desire/need for more adequate emotional transparency. Were there any other specific ones?

 

2. Did the MC discuss or give you guidance on how to accomplish these goals together and how to help your spouse individually?

 

It seems to me like you know where you want to go but may not know how to get there. Is that a fair statement?

[katielee]

A "Dont you wish you were golfing on my team with sherry from...," that implies either of them or both has the crush.

 

He said he didn't. I have to believe him. But I wasn't wrong for asking. He said he would have asked too.

 

Behavior patterns? There was nothing different during his affairs. None. I just happened upon a text as I walked by on my way to the bathroom. Similar to this. I suppose that's why I triggered so much. The text has become a small thing now. I understand after we talked several times.

The not understand what it did to me and WHY I needed to talk about it ? Disappointing.

Im not going to spy. I don't feel the need to. That isn't the issue...