this just happened

[merrmeade]

This isn't a question of trust. It's communication. He purposely didn't tell me.

We've had the conversation of how it should go. He neglected to follow the script. Wanna change the script? Fine. But let's talk about it first.

I don't believe this at all, kl — the bolded part — and I've been saying to you (about your situation) every single time I read it that it seems so clear to me you are assuming way too much about what he knows, remembers and intends. I've read this multiple times. Even about the commercial itself. In fact, as you'll recall, when you first told me about it, I couldn't even grasp the problem. It sounded like you were upset because he didn't (basically) remember to read your mind. Yes, he should remember. Yes, you've been through enough that he should remember. But he didn't this time. So you reminded him after the fact.

katielee, sometimes were just guys, women always expect me to be able to read their minds for some reason. Sometimes we just have to be told. ... I still need to be told sometimes.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

thanks alive. I need to be reminded that I am assuming and I can't read his mind. That is unfair of me.

This is no small thing. Neither on of you can read the other's mind.

 

No, I disagree with all the angst and expectations you put on each other and triggers. Can you really hold him responsible for so much when your lives are so impossibly intertwined with the OWs . What I've NEVER been able to get my head around is expecting so much when you LIVE IN THE SAME COMMUNITY and always have the potential of running into them.

 

I could not live like that and I live with someone who has to be told everything.

[Mrs. John Adams]

real quick... more soon.

After an hour, finally, MC looked at him and said, "you are no where near emotionally transparent enough for her." That would make her feel SO much better... so MJA - you are close, I think.

 

Good...glad to hear that...maybe this will help you both.

 

Something is certainly not sitting right so maybe the Therapist will be able to delve deeply into it and find the answer.

[katielee]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at merrmeade so not sure how to answer. Are you saying that you couldn't live in a town where your lives were so intertwined? or that knowing we live here, I can't expect much or need to give more? Because I'm about all out of giving.

He knew how I felt about the commercial beforehand because I was upset about the first one he did for his work. He knows how I feel about certain things, but not all. Apparently, according to MC, I have to spell a lot of things out. He thinks compartmentally, I think about everything at once. We are very different people. I am emotive. He is stoic.

I am ok with 99% of what he does for his job and MC said this was very reasonable. Hubby must know some of these things because he asked me right then and there about hanging out at the country club, something he hasn't done a lot of because OW1 belongs. He has business things there. I said as long as you tell me if you see her. So MC said, See, she is just wanting transparency.

 

MC wants hubby to tell me when he is down. Hubby said he doesn't want to drag me down. I said I look at that as an opportunity. MC said "she is a helper and that is what she does. let her help. show her vulnerability. She will trust you more if you tell her what is going on in your head."

 

yep, he called a divorce lawyer, because he thought I was going to ask for a divorce at MC. I said no, but that I didn't know what to do about the last incident. MC asked how long does it take for me to get over these incidents. I said a couple days and he said this could all be solved by communicating with her.

 

I do understand that hubby does all of this for his job and he takes great pride in being a provider for us. I do understand why he went to that event, so he could kill two job things with one stone. I'm still not happy about living here but I guess I have for four years and survived. Perhaps if he lets me in a little, this will be easier.

 

shattered - the only thing I read was one email and one text. they were way too familiar for a friend but nothing earth shattering. His Ddays did not come out together. I found out on individual days.

[understand50]

katielee,

 

I think that it all comes down to you. From reading, I ascertain that your husband as always been this way when it come to emotions. Most men are. I do not see him changing. He also loves you, and a large part of that is providing for you. He went there for his job. I think you need to cut him some slack, and need to look at things from his side. You both cannot move right now, he needs to finish out his job. Here is another thought. His job must mean a lot to him. Retirement is not a panacea for many guys, I think your husband is one of them. You putting pressure on him to "leave" it all behind will cause resentment. Just an idea.

 

If I was your husband, I would really be upset with your triggering. It may not be fair, but in my mind, your PA, do not come close to my EA's. It would seem to me that I getting "bashed" when in my mind what you did was so much worse. Could this dynamic be going on? Again another thought.

 

So.....

 

katielee, I really wish the best for you. I think you come at this as a normal human being, and are in a situation, while much of your own doing, is hard for you. You are not a bad person, but some struggling with the out come from life, and the actions of both your husband and yourself. If your Husband is not engaging in a EA, if he is doing all that he can, as what he is, can you not see anything that you can do to make this better? I think the next move is on you. While the MC has pointed out he needs to be "emotionally transparent ", that is a really hard thing for a guy to do, and in any case it will take some time for him to get there. I do not think you should wait. You need to help him.

 

So how? If I was you, and I can only come at this from this perspective, I would work to shift my reactions down, from fighting to more talking, and if I cannot talk, I would move it to a letter or email. The goal is to take some of the emotion out of my interaction with him on my triggers, and fold it into a channel that allows both of us to discuss fully, openly and honestly. The real issue can be worked on it, and "slips" can be noted and redressed with out a possibility of harm and hurt to the marriage.

 

I would also look him in the eye and tell him, "Divorce is off the table, I am committing to you and this marriage" Of course there are exceptions, another PA, EA, or physical harm to you both, but I also sense from your writing that he does not want to divorce, and is afraid to "open" up as this may lead to one. Please look at your relationship, and see if you have a paradox going, in that you are asking for a more open look at his emotion and asking for him to be open for you, but in his mind this will lead to losing you. You can see the issue. Again a idea.

 

For you own well being, you need to get a handle on your triggers. This will be hard, and all of us have our own hell in this regard, both BS and WS. These are nothing but unpleasant memories, and do no real harm unless we let them. What about keeping a diary of triggers, and going over them with your husband from time to time. Discuss your fears, and his, and try and work out a reaction for them. I have to tell you, that for myself, I keep these to myself most of the time. I have learned what they are, just memories, and I do not allow them to control me, or my relationship to my wife in the present. I past wrong should not be allowed to poison our relationship. Would this help for you? katielee, deep down life is better with the man you love.

 

As always, I wish you luck.........

[katielee]

katielee,

 

 

If I was your husband, I would really be upset with your triggering. It may not be fair, but in my mind, your PA, do not come close to my EA's. It would seem to me that I getting "bashed" when in my mind what you did was so much worse. Could this dynamic be going on? Again another thought.

 

 

So how? If I was you, and I can only come at this from this perspective, I would work to shift my reactions down, from fighting to more talking, and if I cannot talk, I would move it to a letter or email. The goal is to take some of the emotion out of my interaction with him on my triggers, and fold it into a channel that allows both of us to discuss fully, openly and honestly. The real issue can be worked on it, and "slips" can be noted and redressed with out a possibility of harm and hurt to the marriage.

 

I would also look him in the eye and tell him, "Divorce is off the table, I am committing to you and this marriage" Of course there are exceptions, another PA, EA, or physical harm to you both, but I also sense from your writing that he does not want to divorce, and is afraid to "open" up as this may lead to one. Please look at your relationship, and see if you have a paradox going, in that you are asking for a more open look at his emotion and asking for him to be open for you, but in his mind this will lead to losing you. You can see the issue. Again a idea.

 

For you own well being, you need to get a handle on your triggers. This will be hard, and all of us have our own hell in this regard, both BS and WS. These are nothing but unpleasant memories, and do no real harm unless we let them. What about keeping a diary of triggers, and going over them with your husband from time to time. Discuss your fears, and his, and try and work out a reaction for them. I have to tell you, that for myself, I keep these to myself most of the time. I have learned what they are, just memories, and I do not allow them to control me, or my relationship to my wife in the present. I past wrong should not be allowed to poison our relationship. Would this help for you? katielee, deep down life is better with the man you love.

 

As always, I wish you luck.........

 

I appreciate your feedback, understand.

His affairs were definitely PA. He didn't have sex though.

We don't fight. no yelling or screaming at all. we talk. but that is "fighting" to him.

i share about 1% of my triggers with him so I'm probably like you - I keep them to myself "most of the time." He is all over town some days. I don't say one word. But when it hits a big one I will/do. And the last event was a big one.

You might be right about him opening up and fearing divorce. This is hard for me to understand. I'd rather be open and if it leads to divorce then I'd rather be authentic than married. But this is assuming something about him. maybe he wants to be strong and not appear vulnerable. I don't know.

I know life is better with him. Much better. I'm trying.

Edited April 14, 2016 by katielee

[katielee]

understand - you have said a couple times we should have a "state of the marriage" meeting once a month. He cannot do that. So I have not pushed for it at all. I've REALLY TRIED to be as accommodating as I can to his needs to just have positive experiences together and no talk of anything relationship wise.

Sometimes, it spills over. Like this event. But what is the answer? No talking at all?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Your husbands affairs involved kissing another woman...no emotional involvement...no sexual involvement....so I would not call it a PA...but if that's how you view it then that is what it is to you.

 

Your affair included sexual intercourse....and transpired over a period of time.

 

Yet your husband seems perfectly willing to let it go and move forward and yet....you cannot let it go and move forward.

 

You feel that you are doing all the giving.....that he is emotionally detached and insensitive to your feelings.

 

I am going to try to explain to you how I interpret how john feels.....because our situations are similar.

 

John simply could not understand how I could love him yet hurt him the way i did..in a way...he would have preferred he had done something wrong in our relationship so he could have fixed something...instead...like you ...I told him he did not really do anything wrong...it was all about me. He just could not and still to this day does not understand my mindset.

 

So...he sought to have an affair....just like I did...to try to understand my mindset. He loved me...yet he looked for a woman to have an affair with.

 

His affair was not emotionally involved...he did not have sex...he made out with her...very much like your husband did.....

 

and then he told me what he had done. He was still just as confused as he was before he ever did this...because he quite frankly...still could not get into my head and understand how I could do this to him...for no reason.

 

He could have repeated this process a hundred times....and I doubt he would be any closer to an answer than he was the first time.

 

How had I....validated in my own mind....a sexual relationship with another man...while still loving him?

 

I have no answer...and I doubt i will ever find an answer.

 

Now....I do not dwell on his "affair"....I don't even blame him for it. I know he did not love her....I know he did not have sex with her....I know it is over and was very short lived. Very much like your husbands.

 

So this is where our similarities stop. I don't talk about it....I don't blame him.....I don't dwell on it...I don't worry that he will do it again....

 

So what is different within you and within me....that you relate more to being a betrayed spouse rather than a wayward spouse? What is within you that you cannot seem to let go of your husbands betrayal....but you expect him to let go of yours?

 

I believe you both love each other...but what I don't understand is this.... your betrayal was so much more than his....and he is able to move forward....yet you cannot move past his affair....and because he kissed two different women...you say he had two affairs....and that he says he paid you back because you had 2 affairs. Why would he think you had 2 affairs? Why would he accuse you of that? Why would he feel the need to pay you back twice?

 

Now...I understand that you may need more remorse or assurance than I do. Maybe you are still afraid that he will cheat again....I truly am not. You see...I know that had I not had my affair..John would NEVER have had his.

 

and maybe that is the question I have for you.....do you believe that your husband would have cheated on you even if you had not cheated first? Is this the underlying difference in our situations? Are you worried that he might cheat again?and do you think he fears the same thing from you?

 

Somehow...there is something that is underlying in your relationship...that cause you to be afraid...do you know what it is?

[katielee]

Your husbands affairs involved kissing another woman...no emotional involvement...no sexual involvement....so I would not call it a PA...but if that's how you view it then that is what it is to you.

 

Your affair included sexual intercourse....and transpired over a period of time.

 

Yet your husband seems perfectly willing to let it go and move forward and yet....you cannot let it go and move forward.

 

You feel that you are doing all the giving.....that he is emotionally detached and insensitive to your feelings.

 

I am going to try to explain to you how I interpret how john feels.....because our situations are similar.

 

John simply could not understand how I could love him yet hurt him the way i did..in a way...he would have preferred he had done something wrong in our relationship so he could have fixed something...instead...like you ...I told him he did not really do anything wrong...it was all about me. He just could not and still to this day does not understand my mindset.

 

So...he sought to have an affair....just like I did...to try to understand my mindset. He loved me...yet he looked for a woman to have an affair with.

 

His affair was not emotionally involved...he did not have sex...he made out with her...very much like your husband did.....

 

and then he told me what he had done. He was still just as confused as he was before he ever did this...because he quite frankly...still could not get into my head and understand how I could do this to him...for no reason.

 

He could have repeated this process a hundred times....and I doubt he would be any closer to an answer than he was the first time.

 

How had I....validated in my own mind....a sexual relationship with another man...while still loving him?

 

I have no answer...and I doubt i will ever find an answer.

 

Now....I do not dwell on his "affair"....I don't even blame him for it. I know he did not love her....I know he did not have sex with her....I know it is over and was very short lived. Very much like your husbands.

 

So this is where our similarities stop. I don't talk about it....I don't blame him.....I don't dwell on it...I don't worry that he will do it again....

 

So what is different within you and within me....that you relate more to being a betrayed spouse rather than a wayward spouse? What is within you that you cannot seem to let go of your husbands betrayal....but you expect him to let go of yours?

 

I believe you both love each other...but what I don't understand is this.... your betrayal was so much more than his....and he is able to move forward....yet you cannot move past his affair....and because he kissed two different women...you say he had two affairs....and that he says he paid you back because you had 2 affairs. Why would he think you had 2 affairs? Why would he accuse you of that? Why would he feel the need to pay you back twice?

 

Now...I understand that you may need more remorse or assurance than I do. Maybe you are still afraid that he will cheat again....I truly am not. You see...I know that had I not had my affair..John would NEVER have had his.

 

and maybe that is the question I have for you.....do you believe that your husband would have cheated on you even if you had not cheated first? Is this the underlying difference in our situations? Are you worried that he might cheat again?and do you think he fears the same thing from you?

 

Somehow...there is something that is underlying in your relationship...that cause you to be afraid...do you know what it is?

 

well these are a lot of questions. I'll answer a few that I can.

Why would he feel the need to pay me back twice? I guess because sometimes he considers my sexual assault an affair. The "you had two so I got to have two" kind of thing.

No, I don't think he would have cheated had I not had one. But I have no idea what this has to do with my triggering.

Do I think he might cheat again? I'm fairly sure he won't but never say never.

does he fear the same thing from me? I don't think so. But I think he just tries not to worry about it and distracts himself.

I don't know what it is i am afraid of. It varies from day to day. Some days that he'll leave. Other days that he doesn't cherish me like I think spouses should.

It is your opinion that his betrayal was less than mine simply because of the sex. I wish he would have had ONS with them and nothing else.

Maybe the way he was able to move forward is that he got back at me.

Mrs JA - you want me to say to myself when I trigger, "hey you did it first so bury those feelings. You wouldn't be in this position if you hadn't done it first." I could say that in my mind. But I wouldn't feel that in my heart.

Edited April 14, 2016 by katielee

[Mrs. John Adams]

well these are a lot of questions. I'll answer a few that I can.

Why would he feel the need to pay me back twice? I guess because sometimes he considers my sexual assault an affair. The "you had two so I got to have two" kind of thing.

No, I don't think he would have cheated had I not had one. But I have no idea what this has to do with my triggering.

Do I think he might cheat again? I'm fairly sure he won't but never say never.

does he fear the same thing from me? I don't think so. But I think he just tries not to worry about it and distracts himself.

I don't know what it is i am afraid of. It varies from day to day. Some days that he'll leave. Other days that he doesn't cherish me like I think spouses should.

It is your opinion that his betrayal was less than mine simply because of the sex. I wish he would have had ONS with them and nothing else.

Maybe the way he was able to move forward is that he got back at me.

Mrs JA - you want me to say to myself when I trigger, "hey you did it first so bury those feelings. You wouldn't be in this position if you hadn't done it first." I could say that in my mind. But I wouldn't feel that in my heart.

 

no that is absolutely not what i want you to say to yourself. What I think you need to do is to be able to put things into perspective....and to be honest with yourself.

 

First...to say you wish he had had a ONS instead of making out with them doe not even make sense. So IF he had had an ons you feel he would have just been done with it? Do you honestly believe that?

 

To wish your spouse had screwed another person instead of just making out with them makes no sense to me. John would much rather I had just made out with my affair partner than screwed him. Intercourse seems like so much more of a betrayal.

 

If your husband believes in his heart that your sexual assault was indeed another affair....I would say that is a HUGE issue that has not been properly dealt with on either side. For one thing....he is calling you a liar....and if he thinks you are lying about it...WHY?You cannot begin to HEAL until you have addressed these very important issues that you both seem to have. If he thinks you are lying about an affair...he certainly does not think you are remorseful about it.

 

 

You want to know what all this has to do with your triggering? Because you have a whole crap load of unresolved issues...that's why.

 

 

He doesn't want to talk about anything...he wants to rug sweep not only his affair but yours....and if he is rug sweeping everything.....healing is never going to happen. He doesn't want to talk about it because he feels it is pointless. Talking is getting you no where.

 

I think this MC is exactly what the 2 of you need because there is still obviously a whole lot of stuff that clearly has not been resolved.

[S2B]

Start talking it out!

 

Not talking it out hasn't resolved it. So try the opposite to get a different result.

 

If you two can't communicate on a regular basis about how you each feel - then there is NO substance to the marriage.

 

Start sharing how you feel and why you feel that way. Just do it. Even IF you divorced you'd be left wondering IF the marriage could have improved if you'd just talked about things in order the resolve the issues.

 

They don't go away on their own - it's up to both of you to start doing things differently.

[understand50]

understand - you have said a couple times we should have a "state of the marriage" meeting once a month. He cannot do that. So I have not pushed for it at all. I've REALLY TRIED to be as accommodating as I can to his needs to just have positive experiences together and no talk of anything relationship wise.

Sometimes, it spills over. Like this event. But what is the answer? No talking at all?

 

katielee,

 

What we do is try and channel all the "heavy" talk to a set date and time. About once a month depending on all sorts of things, we set aside a time to talk. At this "talk" all things are on the table, and we both expect total honesty from each other. There are some rules:

 

1) What is said in the "talk" stays in the talk. We both so not bring thing up day to day unless, it is of a really serious nature. The we will have a "Talk"

 

2) We both work not to get mad, and will end the talk if one of us does. Normally not a problem.

 

3) We keep all things to our self's. We keep each other secretes.

 

Now, my wife does not like to talk out her emotions, and feeling, just hold them in and then do passive aggressive behavor. I tend to blow up all at once and let things go once they have been "dealt" with. Our goal was to make a "safe" place where we could talk to each other and really try and get the bottom of any issues we both have, or have a a couple. As both of us know we will get our "say", we can key on having a good time and enjoying our time together at other times. If this sounds like MC, well in many ways it is DIY MC, as when the great crisis of overspending happened, we had no extra money for MC, or IC, and had to come up with a way to deal with what we both were going trough.

 

This is not a session to just beat each other up, but a chance to listen, talk and work things out. This does take some practice, and discipline, on both sides. So yes we talk, and talk a lot, sense we started doing this, it is just channeled to a time when we both can give each other our full attention, and love. Remember, if you ask hard questions, expect hard answers back. I think both of you are going to find out things that may help, may hurt, but in the end once things are out in the open, they can be dealt with and not allowed to fester, leading into divorce.

 

My own opinion, is that you take the mantel of a BS, in order to shield yourself from really understanding and acknowledging what you did with your affair and your role as a WS. I think this is normal, and most people if not all will do and do the same, but you need to look inward to see what you can do and how you can change. You can only control yourself, and change yourself to change the environment around you. Talking it out with the man you love and who loves you will help. You will both hurt each other from time to time, but hurting while trying to understand each other is way different from hurting each other in a fight.

 

Your husband loves you and does not want a divorce. You want to stay in the marriage and you love him. You have a good base to build on, and I hope, that you can deal with both your past actions and move on. You are a good person, and I think your husbands keys in on this, and has decided to stay with you, as he loves you. Do not drive him away, but work so both of you can stay close. Again, my advise, take divorce off the table. Let him know you are here for him, and will do what it takes to work things out.

 

Hope this helps, and as always, I wish you luck.....

 

PS: I will be off the "net" this weekend, I will respond on Monday if you like.

[merrmeade]

I'm going to comment in your response:

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at merrmeade so not sure how to answer. Are you saying that you couldn't live in a town where your lives were so intertwined? or that knowing we live here, I can't expect much or need to give more?

I meant that I couldn't live with the possibility of seeing the

OW

again or having to listen to people like - who was it? your hair stylist? - the tacky person that had seen your

H

on TV. But I wasn't saying that as advice or to imply you're doing something wrong. On the contrary. I was a little in awe of the fortitude and clarity needed to deal with such an uncertainty.

...

He knew how I felt about the commercial beforehand because I was upset about the first one he did for his work. He knows how I feel about certain things, but not all.

That ^^^ was what I was getting at - when juxtaposed with this vvv ...

Apparently, according to MC, I have to spell a lot of things out....

So

in other words, you say you

know

he "knows" what bothers you about some things (i.e., the commercial) but this next seems to acknowledge there's some doubt about how much he actually "gets":

Hubby must know some of these things because he asked me right then and there about hanging out at the country club, something he hasn't done a lot of because OW1 belongs. He has business things there. I said as long as you tell me if you see her. So MC said, See, she is just wanting transparency.

 

MC wants hubby to tell me when he is down. Hubby said he doesn't want to drag me down. I said I look at that as an opportunity. MC said "she is a helper and that is what she does. let her help. show her vulnerability. She will trust you more if you tell her what is going on in your head."

 

yep, he called a divorce lawyer, because he thought I was going to ask for a divorce at MC. I said no, but that I didn't know what to do about the last incident. MC asked how long does it take for me to get over these incidents. I said a couple days and he said this could all be solved by communicating with her.....

So I didn't explain it in a way that was clear apparently before, but I still see the same thing going on as before and it's weird to me that you don't. All I have to go by is what you say. And what I hear consistently is an assumption on your part that he "knows" your feelings about certain things and, THEREFORE, must be not only intentionally ignoring your feelings but also knowingly trampling them.

 

But that doesn't seem plausible to me either. And then you find out he was contacting a divorce lawyer to pre-empt your expected move! Even your MC has to explain you to him.

 

What I've been trying to say is that I don't think he really "knows" as much as you assume he does. Just because we tell people that a certain thing hurts our feelings doesn't mean they really understand feel what you felt and all the dynamics and thoughts that made it happen. It certainly doesn't mean they'll recognize when a similar thing might happen again and prevent it.

 

I know about this because my H is the far, far extreme of a socially clueless person who pretends to understand but really doesn't. He knocks himself out trying to be "good" in ways he does know so that he has brownie points when it comes to f-king up some other way. He has to have everything explained out loud about how somebody feels about something (which most people don't need; they actually sense it) and even if they do he STILL won't get a lot of it. So I know about this and do a lot of explaining if something is important to me and I don't want to feel bad because I think he should know and might hurt me by ignoring my feelings.

 

I mean, granted you want a partner who knows you, understands what makes you happy and sad and cares enough to protect that. So, first, I think you can't take his word for it that he understands and/OR can apply what he understands in even slightly different circumstances and, second, you can't assume that he's callously ignoring your wishes. I'm suggesting that instead of going there - assuming that he's intentionally ignoring what's important to you - you grab him and freaking ask him!

[merrmeade]

And just to re-emphasize: I'm NOT criticizing in this comparison. Far from it. I think you're doing great! Especially since you're BOTH in therapy (right?) AND in MC. It's simply going to get better.

 

No, the comparison was (I tried to say) because both our H's don't know what they don't know. And the only reason I know the importance of (what feels like) over-explaining is because mine is so in the dark. Seriously. I can't decide whether I should be reading about borderline autism or galloping narcissism - or both!

[katielee]

Hubby left phone at home when he left for a trip. I heard a ding and found it. Message from male co-worker Greg something to the effect was "bet you wanna be on my team to golf with Sherry from (company name here)," and then a smiley face - I can't remember exactly what was said but it was apparent they both admired her attributes. I called hubby's friend he was with, told him he left his phone here and then I left.. I saw them come home to get it as I was leaving so I texted, "who is Sherry from....." he text back, "consultant for our technology steering committee. I'm not golfing and not interested." I said, "so she must have been a topic of conversation?' He said, "not for me I think Greg likes her." I say, "Right." he answers, "please don't worry. I didn't do anything wrong. I love YOU!"

I have not texted back - even though he's sent me several.

I hate this. They obviously had a conversation where they both admired her attributes. He complained to me this week of having to watch this presentation 5 times.

I think if you have two affairs you don't get to have these conversations with male co=workers where you lust after other women, women you HIRE! I mean, do you!???

These are two bank presidents!! Im so effing sick of this.

He'll call me tonight, and I don't know what to say. Every month or so we have these "he just doens't get it" moments where I am hurt again and he swears he is doing nothing wrong.

What I want to say? How old are you? How do you think SHE would feel if she knew you guys were talking about her? Do you know what it was like to see that text?

 

 

I need help knowing what to say to him. IF I answer his call. I want to tell him to go eff himself.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Hubby left phone at home when he left for a trip. I heard a ding and found it. Message from male co-worker Greg something to the effect was "bet you wanna be on my team to golf with Sherry from (company name here)," and then a smiley face - I can't remember exactly what was said but it was apparent they both admired her attributes. I called hubby's friend he was with, told him he left his phone here and then I left.. I saw them come home to get it as I was leaving so I texted, "who is Sherry from....." he text back, "consultant for our technology steering committee. I'm not golfing and not interested." I said, "so she must have been a topic of conversation?' He said, "not for me I think Greg likes her." I say, "Right." he answers, "please don't worry. I didn't do anything wrong. I love YOU!"

I have not texted back - even though he's sent me several.

I hate this. They obviously had a conversation where they both admired her attributes. He complained to me this week of having to watch this presentation 5 times.

I think if you have two affairs you don't get to have these conversations with male co=workers where you lust after other women, women you HIRE! I mean, do you!???

These are two bank presidents!! Im so effing sick of this.

He'll call me tonight, and I don't know what to say. Every month or so we have these "he just doens't get it" moments where I am hurt again and he swears he is doing nothing wrong.

What I want to say? How old are you? How do you think SHE would feel if she knew you guys were talking about her? Do you know what it was like to see that text?

 

 

I need help knowing what to say to him. IF I answer his call. I want to tell him to go eff himself.

 

then that is exactly what you should say.

[katielee]

Am I wrong to be pissed about this?

[Lady Hamilton]

Hubby left phone at home when he left for a trip. I heard a ding and found it. Message from male co-worker Greg something to the effect was "bet you wanna be on my team to golf with Sherry from (company name here)," and then a smiley face - I can't remember exactly what was said but it was apparent they both admired her attributes. I called hubby's friend he was with, told him he left his phone here and then I left.. I saw them come home to get it as I was leaving so I texted, "who is Sherry from....." he text back, "consultant for our technology steering committee. I'm not golfing and not interested." I said, "so she must have been a topic of conversation?' He said, "not for me I think Greg likes her." I say, "Right." he answers, "please don't worry. I didn't do anything wrong. I love YOU!"

I have not texted back - even though he's sent me several.

I hate this. They obviously had a conversation where they both admired her attributes. He complained to me this week of having to watch this presentation 5 times.

I think if you have two affairs you don't get to have these conversations with male co=workers where you lust after other women, women you HIRE! I mean, do you!???

These are two bank presidents!! Im so effing sick of this.

He'll call me tonight, and I don't know what to say. Every month or so we have these "he just doens't get it" moments where I am hurt again and he swears he is doing nothing wrong.

What I want to say? How old are you? How do you think SHE would feel if she knew you guys were talking about her? Do you know what it was like to see that text?

 

 

I need help knowing what to say to him. IF I answer his call. I want to tell him to go eff himself.

 

TBH... I'm not seeing anything in there that's incriminating to him about lusting after another woman. That other guy, yeah, but him? Not so much.

 

There does come a point where maybe one should ask themselves "is this the type of person I want to be for the rest of my life?" If the answer is "no," then the next question should be "what am I doing that is making this worse?"

 

I get it. He had affairs. He hurt you and it made you crazy, I get that, but at this point it's you keeping yourself crazy more than him making you crazy.

 

Even if we were to assume the absolute worst case scenario... This TV commercial was broadcast to millions of women who all now lust after him, he was saying the most inappropriate things about this woman... His behavior hasn't changed. He's being consistent here. And there does come a point where you stop blaming the wall for being in the way of your head and start thinking "maybe if I stopped banging my head against this wall, I'd be better off."

 

Realistically, he's going to go in public. People will think he's attractive. He will notice attractive women. Short of locking him in a box with no air holes for which to peer out at any woman who may go by, this is unavoidable.

 

The solution here isn't to demand your sinner become a saint and then freak out when he doesn't hit those lofty goals. It's for you to set some realistic expectations and work on your own self-worth and self-esteem issues and to fully, and I mean fully, realize what reconciling with this guy truly means in the long term. It means you've got to be Ok with some things that may be really, really difficult with... Like trusting him, accepting other women find him attractive, that other women are attractive to him, and he could run into former OW at any time... Or you too, for that matter.

 

If all of that is too much for you to accept (and I can get why it would be), then maybe the issue isn't that the leopard has spots but that you made a choice to reconcile without fully understanding what exactly that meant you had to work on on your end.

 

At some point, you'll have to work past all of this to have a relationship with the man. If you can't, that's fine, but it's time to start saying "it's not you, it's me" and just making the next step... Whatever that may be. Because as you're going now, whatever he's doing, even if he's being that Saint you want, you're not setting him up for success, then you're using that failure as a reason to sabotage the next time.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[katielee]

 

If all of that is too much for you to accept (and I can get why it would be), then maybe the issue isn't that the leopard has spots but that you made a choice to reconcile without fully understanding what exactly that meant you had to work on on your end.

 

At some point, you'll have to work past all of this to have a relationship with the man. If you can't, that's fine, but it's time to start saying "it's not you, it's me" and just making the next step... Whatever that may be. Because as you're going now, whatever he's doing, even if he's being that Saint you want, you're not setting him up for success, then you're using that failure as a reason to sabotage the next time.

 

I have worked enough. I'm too tired to do anymore...

[Lady Hamilton]

I have worked enough. I'm too tired to do anymore...

 

Well, the fun part about marriage is that, if you're in it for the long haul, you don't get to be too tired to do it anymore. You've got to suck it up and do it or you have to tell him you're not going to do it anymore, then either send him on his way or watch him as he heads out the door.

 

If you're going to stay married, not doing anymore is simply not an option.

 

If you're giving up, then you have no reason to expect him to not to anything different and should not be surprised when he acts accordingly.

[katielee]

oh ask anyone here how long and hard I've worked.

[Lady Hamilton]

oh ask anyone here how long and hard I've worked.

 

I'm not saying you haven't. Only that you can't say that you're tired of working and expect that to be a solution. Even from a standpoint where we assume he's 100% wrong and you're 100% right, it's not a workable attitude in a marriage.

 

You can't expect the person you blame for things going off the rails to be the one who does a total 180 and becomes exactly what you've always wanted in a spouse when you say you're too tired to keep working on the marriage.

 

If you're staying, being too tired to work on it isn't an option.

 

You're a team of doctors working on removing a cancer from your marriage. You don't get to say halfway through the procedure that you're too tired to keep going and then hand it off to the other doctor to handle on their own while expecting they'll carry the whole burden while still hitting your standards. You either keep going until the cancer is gone or you call it, declare the patient dead, and notify the morgue.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[frogss29]

I think it isn't so much that our partners could be doing something wrong....it is that certain things/days/words/feelings take us back in time and we feel the pain all over again.

And it really, really hurts!

And hearing the words "I am not doing anything wrong....and I love YOU" just doesn't stop the insecurities.

They say time and communication helps heal but it sure does feel lonely when you get overwhelmed.

[MuddyFootprints]

Only the most virulent seed thrives in toxic soil.

 

You have worked hard, but your labour has been misdirected. If you want to save your marriage, approach it differently. If you want to divorce, get on with it.

[katielee]

your labour has been misdirected. If you want to save your marriage, approach it differently. .

 

where? how?

[ShatteredLady]

I grew-up with a large group of people who were either very 'arty' (wanted to be writers, poets etc) &/or musical (song writers, in bands etc.). My long term bf was a poet & song writer. Quite a bit older than me. My Mums an artist. My joys were walking around galleries, concerts, movies (particularly indi films), theater etc.

 

Honestly I was nearly 30 when I first went to the cinema in the USA (with 'ADULT' friends) when I first experienced what I can only describe as the pathetically childish, silly noises & comments when an actress took her top off!! I've since been exposed to grown men doing the same over works of art, MY ART!!! Film, magazine covers etc. how these plonkers don't explode on a topless/nudest beach is beyond me!

 

I used to just roll my eyes & judge. Since I first experienced my 'affair husband' latching at women, heard the things 'grown' men say about women, the strip clubs, 'Hooters' & all that twaddle, ugh!!! It makes me sad & a little embarrassed to be part of the human race.

 

I don't know how MEN feel about all this.

 

My H used to be a MAN about these things. We've had adult conversations after watching French 'Arty' movies. We've walked around many galleries, even the Sex Museum & Red Light District of Amsterdam. Peer pressure effects some people more than others.

 

Things I've discovered my H has 'joined in' over recent years have disappointed me & on occasion mortified me! I've accepted "being one of the guys" but it still makes me cringe. I know how infidelity amplifies these feelings & adds layers of complexity to it.

 

I'm sorry! What else can I say? I get it & I'm sorry. I'd HATE to read something like that involving my H. It doesn't mean he wants her or fantasizes about her. He loves you. Still sucks though!

 

I hope this doesn't disintegrate into a "boys will be boys" or even worse "ALL men do & you're naive" debate. Some men do appreciate beauty for its aesthetic & don't make insulting, sexist comments that make women feel like pieces of meat. Many married men DON'T comment on attractive coworkers & clients.

 

Sorry started writing this after your first post on it (166 I think) but got interrupted & missed the last page of comments

Edited April 29, 2016 by ShatteredLady