this just happened

[MuddyFootprints]

This hypervigilance isn't healthy.

 

You need to fully reconcile with yourself.

 

I haven't seen that in any of your posts.

[katielee]

This hypervigilance isn't healthy.

 

You need to fully reconcile with yourself.

 

I haven't seen that in any of your posts.

 

hypervigilance? I picked up his phone because it dinged and i thought, oh no, he forgot his phone. I don't look at his texts otherwise.

 

fully reconcile with myself?

[katielee]

ugh!

 

I hope this doesn't disintegrate into a "boys will be boys" or even worse "ALL men do & you're naive" debate. Some men do appreciate beauty for its aesthetic & don't make insulting, sexist comments that make women feel like pieces of meat. Many married men DON'T comment on attractive coworkers & clients.

 

 

me too. I don't think it's professional.

[MuddyFootprints]

hypervigilance? I picked up his phone because it dinged and i thought, oh no, he forgot his phone. I don't look at his texts otherwise.

 

fully reconcile with myself?

 

I think you still harbour a tremendous amount of guilt about your behaviour. I think you are hyper-critical of yourself and of your husband. I don't think either of you are introspective enough or gut-wrenchingly honest with yourselves or each other.

 

That's my read after all these posts.

[stilltrying16]

Am I wrong to be pissed about this?

 

God what decade are we in? I would be pissed too, but not directly at him- I'd be pissed at a culture where older men feel quite free to leer at younger women in the workplace. Women they've hired, as you point out. Big ick factor here.

 

Your husband did not initiate the texting, and it's perfectly possible he would have ignored it, just as he says. But I'd still feel better about it if it bothered him- not because now he has to deal with your irritation with it, but because it actually does seem a little creepy to him.

 

What does he generally think about that workplace culture? Is he ok with the ogling and the nudges and winks because no one seems to mind and no one worries about sexual harassment in this place- at all. It's boys being boys har de har har. I don't know if he is in a position to change the culture- starting small- or at least opt out himself, preferably without using you as the reason (old ball and chains). It forces you into the role of big beefy nanny denying little boys their secret stash of candy. That's the part I hate the most- the way it positions you.

 

So I don't know whether I would let myself be mad at him, but I would most definitely want to talk to him about if this workplace shyte bothers him as much as it does you. It shouldn't just be about appeasing you. I'd feel better about it if it did genuinely bother him at some level.

 

I believe not every man or woman is cruising 24/7 for sexual thrill outside of marriage . But those who are can't just be scolded out of it. They have to genuinely want to change. Therapy might be a better place for talking about how he sees women generally and what he thinks about sexual objectification, because that is what it is imo.

[flowergirl14]

Katielee, do you work? Have a hobby you'd like to explore or get more involved in? Travel, exercise? I know these kinds of suggestions seem to trivial but what Im getting at is focusing on you not him. Make yourself healthy and happy with or without him. I know its hard to do. I dont mean leaving either. Although maybe thats the answer. Just refocus on you for awhile. It seems like your on a hamster wheel. Your not happy with him, your marriage. So focus on you. Get off the wheel for awhile. Affairs and all can become all encompassing. Your either in them, trying to get out of them, thinking about them, worrying, wondering. It destroys your happiness. You only get one chance here on earth and time is precious. Not only that but you feel sad and angry for a week, which turns into a month, year and so on.

[merrmeade]

This is really pissing me off. What the hell is going on??? Except for two, I do NOT understand the responses you've gotten. They have patronized, chastised, even blamed you for this last development.

 

You should feel whatever the hell you feel! In fact, when did "should" ever have a place in talking about feelings. THAT is what you felt. It happened. The question is whether you need to do s/t about it and what. From that perspective, several posts were quite useful in reminding you that your choices are take him this way and get more detachment for yourself and/or satisfaction in other pursuits or leave.

 

It's the same advice I got and is actually useful to see laid out in black and white. I think you quit knocking yourself out with working, fixing and hoping to change him. Not happening.

 

At the same time, I don't think you try to "handle" such events on your own. While I don't think your husband will change, I do think you cannot disrespect yourself by denying (yuck! the worst!) these feelings OR keeping quiet about them. You must say when someone has treated you insensitively and you must do what your sense of self-respect demands at the moment. I don't worry about what that would be for you as a 'professional.'

 

So you tell him, you call it what it is - insensitive - and what he's doing - disregarding your feelings and what's important to you. You let him see how strongly it affects you and you say what it makes you think about him. If you don't feel like you want to be around him for a while, then don't.

[katielee]

Katielee, do you work? Have a hobby you'd like to explore or get more involved in? Travel, exercise? I know these kinds of suggestions seem to trivial but what Im getting at is focusing on you not him. Make yourself healthy and happy with or without him. I know its hard to do. I dont mean leaving either. Although maybe thats the answer. Just refocus on you for awhile. It seems like your on a hamster wheel. Your not happy with him, your marriage. So focus on you. Get off the wheel for awhile. Affairs and all can become all encompassing. Your either in them, trying to get out of them, thinking about them, worrying, wondering. It destroys your happiness. You only get one chance here on earth and time is precious. Not only that but you feel sad and angry for a week, which turns into a month, year and so on.

 

yes, I have plenty of hobbies and I exercise. Also, we're fixing up our lake house together and that has been great.

We HAVE been fairly happy recently. But when these kinds of things happen do I just let them go? I went about my day, got my massage, when shopping and out to dinner with a friend. I vented here.

I obviously don't trust yet. But who would when you see texts like that. It takes you back to the beginning...

I talked to him last night, he said that guy has never talked about Sherry (or any other woman) with him before, that he was very surprised by the text, didn't respond to it, and loves me and told me not to worry.

I have let MANy things go to enjoy my life recently. But I will call crap when I see it. And maybe this is nothing. But I'm not not going to ask.

[katielee]

This is really pissing me off. What the hell is going on??? Except for two, I do NOT understand the responses you've gotten. They have patronized, chastised, even blamed you for this last development.

 

You should feel whatever the hell you feel! In fact, when did "should" ever have a place in talking about feelings. THAT is what you felt. It happened. The question is whether you need to do s/t about it and what. From that perspective, several posts were quite useful in reminding you that your choices are take him this way and get more detachment for yourself and/or satisfaction in other pursuits or leave.

 

It's the same advice I got and is actually useful to see laid out in black and white. I think you quit knocking yourself out with working, fixing and hoping to change him. Not happening.

 

At the same time, I don't think you try to "handle" such events on your own. While I don't think your husband will change, I do think you cannot disrespect yourself by denying (yuck! the worst!) these feelings OR keeping quiet about them. You must say when someone has treated you insensitively and you must do what your sense of self-respect demands at the moment. I don't worry about what that would be for you as a 'professional.'

 

So you tell him, you call it what it is - insensitive - and what he's doing - disregarding your feelings and what's important to you. You let him see how strongly it affects you and you say what it makes you think about him. If you don't feel like you want to be around him for a while, then don't.

 

thank you mermmeade, thank you so much! exactly.

I think most people here know I have a pretty big life. But I'm going to call the crap and I may have misintpreted an innocent text but I'm going to ask about it. AND, considering our past, I think it's totally understandable that I felt hurt about it.

I talked to him last night (see above post) and I'm glad we got it squared away. I told him this. I know you are out and about at these meetings and there are attractive ppl out there. I kind of don't want to know about that. But, when something of this nature STARES YOU IN THE FACE, considering our past, yes, Im going to ask, get clarification or say something about it.

I told him seeing that text was awful, considering this is how i found out about affair 1. I was triggered. He said he can't control what other people send him. I said I get that but understand that it wigged me out.

 

 

Muddy - I am really not understanding what you mean by being hyper critical. of both of us. If I had forgiven myself this wouldn't be an issue?

I think it's I expect him to be a wayward like I am a wayward. And because he's not, I don't know if its good enough for me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katielee....We FEEL what we feel. So when you ask...am I wrong to feel this way....it is the wrong question.

 

We cannot help the way something makes us FEEL. It is our REACTION to those feelings that we can control.

 

Personally....I think you have come to a wall. I think you have come to a place in your OWN mind that is demanding a decision. I think you have given this relationship a valiant effort....and you want approval....from others to let it go...to tell you that you have done enough. But you see dear friend....YOU and ONLY you...can make this call.

 

Your husband is who he is....you either love him for it...or love him in spite of it....but there comes a time of complete acceptance.

 

The only person you can change is you....

 

In all the time you and I have discussed your marriage....you have been working on becoming a person you like.....and yet for the same amount of time you have bitched and moaned and complained and wept and gotten angry because your husband is NOT THE PERSON YOU WANT HIM TO BE.

 

SO the bottom line is this.....you either accept him exactly the way he is.....and love him in spite of it...or you close this chapter and move forward with a new life.

 

I wish your husband was capable of becoming the person you want him to be....but he isn't.

 

So you have to be honest with yourself and answer this question....do you love him enough just the way he is to continue in this relationship?

 

I cannot answer this question for you....

 

you want our approval....We cannot give you that either.....but we can support the decisions you make....or we can give you our opinions....which means absolutely NOTHING.

 

My opinion is this...he is never going to become the man you want him to be....

 

So what is your opinion? Is he capable of becoming the man you want him to be? are you willing to wait for the rest of your life for him to change?

 

OR Are you willing to accept him for who he is?

 

and when you give yourself the answer to these questions....you will also know what you need to do.

[katielee]

Mrs JA - its one thing to accept the kind of person he is. I get that. That's been shown to me again and again.

 

But I viewed this text as a potential affair, a very different thing then just his usual bonehead not thinking stuff.

And that, I'm going to ask questions about.

 

But acceptance. He's a good enough guy. And I'm relatively happy. but very lonely. And I don't know if that's my problem or a marriage problem.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mrs JA - its one thing to accept the kind of person he is. I get that. That's been shown to me again and again.

 

But I viewed this text as a potential affair, a very different thing then just his usual bonehead not thinking stuff.

And that, I'm going to ask questions about.

 

But acceptance. He's a good enough guy. And I'm relatively happy. but very lonely. And I don't know if that's my problem or a marriage problem.

 

Personally...I think you are overreacting.....but it does not matter what I think.

Like I said...you cannot help the way you feel....but you can control your reaction to it.

 

I do not think your husband had any control over what the other guy said or did. It would have been more revealing if you had seen your husbands RESPONSE to the guys text message....but you did not. So you jumped to conclusions....and assumed the worst...and got angry at him for something another person said.

 

We all do it to some degree or another......we react first first...and get all of the facts later.

 

As for this being a "potential affair"....good grief.......every woman he meets is a potential affair. My husband travels 50% of the time......if i sat around and worried that every woman he meets is a potential affair....I would have a nervous breakdown.

 

I would like to ask you why you are lonely? and I certainly think this is something you need to discuss with your therapist.

[katielee]

 

As for this being a "potential affair"....good grief.......every woman he meets is a potential affair. My husband travels 50% of the time......if i sat around and worried that every woman he meets is a potential affair....I would have a nervous breakdown.

 

I would like to ask you why you are lonely? and I certainly think this is something you need to discuss with your therapist.

 

I did not get angry with him. We had a discussion after I had some space to think.

I do maintain that the "don't you wish you were golfing with Sherry" type of comment is very different. It implies lust, a crush, whatever or at least a conversation about her. I know he meets women out there. but that text implied something beyond that.

We talked and he explained himself.

But to see that text and flip out a little and vent here - yep, I'm there, because of our past. and that just is what it is. I'm guessing many BS here would have reacted the same way. He would have been crushed to see a text like that on my phone. It brings you "back there." It does bring up that I still don't trust him.

Lonely? I don't know.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I did not get angry with him. We had a discussion after I had some space to think.

I do maintain that the "don't you wish you were golfing with Sherry" type of comment is very different. It implies lust, a crush, whatever or at least a conversation about her. I know he meets women out there. but that text implied something beyond that.

We talked and he explained himself.

But to see that text and flip out a little and vent here - yep, I'm there, because of our past. and that just is what it is. I'm guessing many BS here would have reacted the same way. He would have been crushed to see a text like that on my phone. It brings you "back there." It does bring up that I still don't trust him.

Lonely? I don't know.

 

the text implied to me that the textor has a "crush" on the young lady.....not your husband. It sounded like a guy bragging to another guy. Have the "guys" at work made remarks about how attractive she is? including your husband...probably. Does it mean they all want to have an affair with her? Or does it means she is an attractive woman?

 

I understand that you do not trust him....you will never fully trust him again....nor will he fully trust you.

 

Can you live with that?

 

and we are not talking about how other BS would react....we are talking about YOUR reaction. You want validation that your response was ok.

 

We cannot answer that....only you can. It does not matter what we think.

 

Was your response to the text valid in your mind? Was his response to your response valid?

 

explain lonely to me....isolated? deserted? rejected? afraid? what is lonely to you?

[katielee]

the text implied to me that the textor has a "crush" on the young lady.....not your husband. It sounded like a guy bragging to another guy. Have the "guys" at work made remarks about how attractive she is? including your husband...probably. Does it mean they all want to have an affair with her? Or does it means she is an attractive woman?

 

I understand that you do not trust him....you will never fully trust him again....nor will he fully trust you.

 

Can you live with that?

 

and we are not talking about how other BS would react....we are talking about YOUR reaction. You want validation that your response was ok.

 

We cannot answer that....only you can. It does not matter what we think.

 

Was your response to the text valid in your mind? Was his response to your response valid?

 

explain lonely to me....isolated? deserted? rejected? afraid? what is lonely to you?

 

I feel my response and reaction was valid. I'm ok with it. His response was equally valid. I WISH we would have had a chance to talk right away but he was traveling in the car with his other friend. That said, I would have never seen that text if he hadn't left the phone here. I don't know how I feel about that.

 

The not trusting fully. There have been many many times where I just distract myself and hope for the best and am glad for the close connection we seem to have. He had two business functions where he could have run into either OW or seen very attractive women and I really didn't worry. I was just glad he told me about them and I told him I hoped the food was good. This has been getting better. The text really threw me though.

 

as a fWW, I feel I have no right to have talks with other women about attractive men. Just no. It's not protecting the marriage on all cylinders.

 

The loneliness - I think I don't feel understood.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I feel my response and reaction was valid. I'm ok with it. His response was equally valid. I WISH we would have had a chance to talk right away but he was traveling in the car with his other friend. That said, I would have never seen that text if he hadn't left the phone here. I don't know how I feel about that.

 

The not trusting fully. There have been many many times where I just distract myself and hope for the best and am glad for the close connection we seem to have. He had two business functions where he could have run into either OW or seen very attractive women and I really didn't worry. I was just glad he told me about them and I told him I hoped the food was good. This has been getting better. The text really threw me though.

 

as a fWW, I feel I have no right to have talks with other women about attractive men. Just no. It's not protecting the marriage on all cylinders.

The loneliness - I think I don't feel understood.

 

this should be discussed with him....and his reaction to it should be some indication to you as to whether or not you are both on the same page. this is one of those areas that you may have to accept him the way he is.....or not.

 

in reality....we never really completely understand ourselves....and if we cannot fully understand ourselves...how do we expect others to?

 

So do you feel lonely because you don't think your husband understands you....or do you feel lonely because YOU don't understand you? Is loneliness therefore a reality? or a state of mind? and how can you over come it? what can you do to better understand yourself or to help others understand you?...What can others do to help you feel understood?....so that you no longer feel lonely.

[66Charger]

You should read a thread "Proud of us, but missing the drama"

Cant remember who the poster was. But it might help.

 

The morals and rights and wrongs of "male behaviour" can be debated ad infinitum, however you had the truth right in your hands. A open phone. What else was in it? Nothing? Maybe that was your truth. Instead of constantly seeing that which may not be there, perhaps you should see the "nothing" and accept that your "imperfect husband" really does love you.

 

Whatever you do, it would be sad to see you create a self fulfilling prophesy.

[katielee]

We've had the discussion. My friends and I were talking and they were all over Adam Levine and I said he's no where close to as hunky as my husband. They rolled their eyes. I told hubby later and said this is how I protect us... and by the way, it's the truth. He said he would do the same thing. I really don't think he would though.

 

I want him to understand me more. He likes the fun loving, positive, trusting Katielee. But to not be afraid of the insecure, questioning, analytical me.

[katielee]

You should read a thread "Proud of us, but missing the drama"

A open phone. What else was in it? Nothing? Maybe that was your truth. Instead of constantly seeing that which may not be there, perhaps you should see the "nothing" and accept that your "imperfect husband" really does love you.

 

Whatever you do, it would be sad to see you create a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

this would have been a great weekend without the drama. I was looking forward to it. I don't want drama. I want peace.

 

I don't know what else was in it. I didn't look. There was nothing "nothing" about that text. It implied something that needed further clarification. IF I trusted him explicitly, there wouldn't be an issue. I don't trust him 100%.

 

not sure what you mean by last statement.

[merrmeade]

I feel my response and reaction was valid. I'm ok with it. His response was equally valid. I WISH we would have had a chance to talk right away but he was traveling in the car with his other friend. That said, I would have never seen that text if he hadn't left the phone here. I don't know how I feel about that.

 

The not trusting fully. There have been many many times where I just distract myself and hope for the best and am glad for the close connection we seem to have. He had two business functions where he could have run into either OW or seen very attractive women and I really didn't worry. I was just glad he told me about them and I told him I hoped the food was good. This has been getting better. The text really threw me though.

 

as a fWW, I feel I have no right to have talks with other women about attractive men. Just no. It's not protecting the marriage on all cylinders.

 

The loneliness - I think I don't feel understood.

This makes me so happy, kl. Too bad we can't be the real-life friends we need for each other to counter some of the loneliness that simply happens as a result of personal growth.

 

And that's exactly what I see happening here and, frankly, not a bad thing. I would suggest doing some different things with that feeling you think is loneliness and see how you feel.

 

Here's what I see: I see you passing a milestone without realizing it. I see you explaining and sharing yourself for yourself to your husband because you want authenticity in your life. I see you explaining to people here with conviction and clarity what you are doing and why. And I see the confidence it gives you and the renewed commitment with and to your husband. In short, I'm proud of you!

 

But with that growth, I also see, what I think of as, a kind of spiritual loneliness that pushes you to more understanding, deeper appreciation and sensitivity to what life means and what you want out of it. You have moved to a new level of insight and choice in your life and this relationship. You have put it in its place of importance for you, you've polished the definitions of your own values and you continue to refine what all this means. The relationship is still very, very important to you, but I see YOU becoming more important to you. And it seems lonely because no one really can travel to this place with you. I see this as a transition. The question is what will you do with it?

[merrmeade]

We've had the discussion. My friends and I were talking and they were all over Adam Levine and I said he's no where close to as hunky as my husband. They rolled their eyes. I told hubby later and said this is how I protect us... and by the way, it's the truth. He said he would do the same thing. I really don't think he would though.

 

I want him to understand me more. He likes the fun loving, positive, trusting Katielee. But to not be afraid of the insecure, questioning, analytical me.

Exactly my point. And this place is lonely. You can't expect your friends OR your husband to move here with you. You've made your own leaps in personal growth. Love it.

[katielee]

This makes me so happy, kl. Too bad we can't be the real-life friends we need for each other to counter some of the loneliness that simply happens as a result of personal growth.

 

And that's exactly what I see happening here and, frankly, not a bad thing. I would suggest doing some different things with that feeling you think is loneliness and see how you feel.

 

Here's what I see: I see you passing a milestone without realizing it. I see you explaining and sharing yourself for yourself to your husband because you want authenticity in your life. I see you explaining to people here with conviction and clarity what you are doing and why. And I see the confidence it gives you and the renewed commitment with and to your husband. In short, I'm proud of you!

 

But with that growth, I also see, what I think of as, a kind of spiritual loneliness that pushes you to more understanding, deeper appreciation and sensitivity to what life means and what you want out of it. You have moved to a new level of insight and choice in your life and this relationship. You have put it in its place of importance for you, you've polished the definitions of your own values and you continue to refine what all this means. The relationship is still very, very important to you, but I see YOU becoming more important to you. And it seems lonely because no one really can travel to this place with you. I see this as a transition. The question is what will you do with it?

 

mermm - that was awesomely beautiful. I have tears. thank you. it's a scary place for me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Scary perhaps because you may be becoming a woman who no longer is satisfied with the mediocracy that he seems to be satisfied with.

 

When we grow individually sometimes we grow apart as a couple.

You have felt all along that your growth has been more than his.

 

Perhaps this is good discussion material with him. You see.. I have never felt that he wants to lose you... I think he is just as afraid as you are.... Maybe more so.. Of losing your marriage.

[LivingWaterPlease]

katielee, I've followed your story on this thread only.

 

I understand your feelings about the Sherry text completely. Imo, you are totally within your rights to have felt concerned and slighted as a result of the text, even had your H never had two EAs.

 

Have you seen the movie, "War Room?" If not, I suggest you get it and watch it. This may be the perfect time for you to appreciate it.

[katielee]

I have prayed plenty about all of this.