Overwhelmed - MM has ended our affair

[13Hearts]

My XMM also wanted to leave but couldn't. He feels responsible and she is holding him to his marriage vows. He would leave if she let him. Once, he did leave. They got into a fight and she said something that he could construe as her kicking him out so he packed a couple bags and came to my place for a week. It was wonderful! She got home that first night and he wasn't there. She started texting him around 11PM or so, asking where he was. LOL. She didn't realize she had kicked him out, he just took the opportunity but she didn't really tell him to leave. He wound up going back because she wanted him to and just would not stop texting him all hours of night and day. That part was ridiculous.

 

I also tried many different ways to let him off the hook. I told him all the things he didn't want to give up, all the things he would miss, etc. But he said he didn't care about any of that, he just wanted us to be together because we just work. I told him to seek out a certain type of marriage counseling, to make things work with her; he didn't want to. He was adamant he was leaving her and that was that. Of course he never left her. I told him I don't want to be someone's OW; that's just not me. Never will be.

 

They're very confused people, MM. I do feel a bit sorry for the type who really do want to leave but can't. I have no problem ending something that just doesn't work for me. I'm the opposite of BW. If I found out my H was cheating on me, I'd kick his ass out so fast he wouldn't even know what hit him. I don't understand women who hang on to cheating husbands, except when they are financially dependent. Which is why I am not and never will be dependent on a man. Been there, done that, and never again.

[Pili-Pala]

Are u definetly sure that it's actually his wife who sent the email? Sounds a bit weird to me. Is there any chance it's been him sending an email?

 

Oh yes. It was definitely her.

[jenkins95]

Absolutely amazing posts on this thread guys - it is becoming a classic. I really hope it's helping the op. As an mm, I am learning a lot from this thread, and even about myself. I will read and return to this thread many times.This stuff should be made into a book! Thanks so much all posters for taking the time to post such well thought out, thorough, complete analyses.

Edited March 6, 2016 by jenkins95

[13Hearts]

Absolutely amazing posts on this thread guys - it is becoming a classic. I really hope it's helping the op. As an mm, I am learning a lot, even about myself. I will read this thread many times.This stuff should be made into a book! Thanks so much for taking the time to post such well thought out, thorough, complete analyses.

 

I agree, this thread is helping me. It's so nice to be able to have these conversations with folks who understand, who have so much valuable perspective to share, and no one here is judging or blasting people for what they have done or the decisions they've made. Very healing, I think.

[jenkins95]

I agree, this thread is helping me. It's so nice to be able to have these conversations with folks who understand, who have so much valuable perspective to share, and no one here is judging or blasting people for what they have done or the decisions they've made. Very healing, I think.

 

I completely agree with you 13Hearts. An excellent, mature attitude is displayed on this thread. People are really exporting their inner most thoughts - it's great. Your posts are incredible. Have you ever written a book or would you consider it? Serious question. I can read your posts over and over again, they flow beautifully and I take so much from them. Massive thanks

[13Hearts]

I completely agree with you 13Hearts. An excellent, mature attitude is displayed on this thread. People are really exporting their inner most thoughts - it's great. Your posts are incredible. Have you ever written a book or would you consider it? Serious question. I can read your posts over and over again, they flow beautifully and I take so much from them. Massive thanks

 

I would love to write a book! Thank you for your compliment. I'm not sure what I would write a book about, though

 

How are you? I think I read you are reconciling with your wife. I hope that is going well for you both and that you are both healing, and bonding with eachother again.

[Popsicle]

Just got caught up on this thread...

 

#1. I don't think you should leave your job.

#2. Your MM is just bored. (that won't change anytime soon)

#3. He will never leave his wife and she will never leave him.

#4. Outside of keeping it strictly professional at work and minimizing having to see him, do not maintain any contact whatsoever with him outside of necessary work tasks.

#5. You will get over him, but you need to give yourself time and DON'T go back or let him come back. I assume you are single, when the time is right you need to start thinking about other men.

[Grey Cloud]

NO DOUBT he told you you were smart, fun, confident and sexy! Because you were! How sexy is a confident woman who contributes to something larger than herself, who is active and participating in life, making decisions that other adults are affected by!

 

My XMM also was attracted to my independence and was very complimentary. I used to think it was because he was just trying to flatter me but I see it differently now. I believe MM are attracted to independence and see women who have careers as strong and that is appealing. I think men benefit in some ways by following the traditional roles of man=provider (controlling) and woman=caregiver (subservient) but it works against them too. If everyone is always conforming to what you want or devise, when do you ever have to examine your own self? You're always "right," and so what opportunity do you have to grow? An independent woman is challenging by her very nature and people like to be challenged. Not only that, MM are just as disillusioned by traditional marriages as we are. They don't feel appreciated, they feel like they have to tow the line, and life is full of responsibilities and obligations. In an affair, you're equal; you don't owe anyone anything.

 

Just re-read this post again 13hearts. Again, so much insight! My xMM in the beginning would always say that I was 'feisty' and that he loved that side of me.

I am pretty sure at home he was getting the subservient version and not being challenged in anyway (again, I don't know for sure but just going off my gut feeling). He said he was encouraging his w to get back into the workforce after having kids because she relied on him too much (as her family and old friends live overseas) and it worried him about how dependent she was on him for everything and didn't have any of her own interests. However at the end of the day I don't think he liked my feisty-ness too much when I was challenging him about how he justified and rationalized the affair. The reasons of which I thought were totally ridiculous!! I think then he realized that he quite liked his own domestic situation where he was put on a pedestal and was needed and important!

Edited March 6, 2016 by Grey Cloud

[bathtub-row]

Don't leave your job. This crap will blow over eventually. I know. I've been there. I'm still there, actually. Only the xMM is the owner of the company and his son and daughter know about our affair. His son is one of my bosses.

 

Are we having fun yet?

 

In my case, I do plan to leave as soon as I have a substantial amount of money in the bank. The situation is something I want to be away from. I have become licensed in another field and am letting it gain momentum. But I'm at the stage where there's very little emotion involved. I simply want to go.

 

What you'll need to do is remind yourself over and over that your xMM knows what he did and he knows how much he lied to you. Let him deal with that and his lousy marriage. Keep your head held high and concentrate on your work. You're not going to be perfect all the time but you'll get there. And then, one day, you'll realize that you can't continue to hold a torch for a guy who was willing to hurt you the way he did. It took me a long time to get there but I did.

 

My xMM is charming and intelligent, a great boss, and many other admirable things. But when a man decides that he can do as he pleases, that he can hurt me and jerk me around, and knows he can get away with it, I have a real problem with that. Someday you'll feel differently about your xMM.

[HappyAgain2014]

No I think you are probably right, I think misery is an extreme word. But he isn't a happy - and his marriage isn't happy. Also, I have not just gleamed this from what he has told me either (as I know many of you will think of course he said that ,they all do!) but it's actually through a lot of external 'evidence' (for want of a better word) I had around his relationship with his wife and family. But I am not dwelling on that and not talking about that as I know that you are right in that it is not for me to judge that and also as people have said it's nothing to do with me. I think it is important that I keep reminding myself every day that that is his stuff and this is my stuff. It's his choice and its his life.

 

The first time we broke up last year I actually advised and encouraged him to work on his marriage. After D-day I spent a lot of time talking to him about the possibility of him staying and what he needed to do this time that he didn't do last time - but he kept telling me he wanted to leave. What become harder was that after 5 weeks from D-day it became more and more apparent that his relationship really is broken and by the end I really thought - truly for the first time - that the only healthy resolution was for them to separate (with or without me!)…. or otherwise its going to be a really hard slog to make it work; a tremendous effort which neither of them seem particularly inclined to make.

 

But I can see that his marriage was never going to get better with me still in the picture. I can see now it was not appropriate for me to try to help him.

 

I totally agree it is not a good situation for a relationship to end due to an A. This is why I never asked him to leave for me. He said many times he was going to tell his W about us so that he could leave and I told him over and over I didn't want that. I didn't want him to leave (or even worse, get thrown out) on those grounds. If he wanted to leave as he wasn't happy in his relationship then fine, he should discuss that with his W and leave on those grounds. When we broke up last year it was because he had tried to leave - but his wife couldn't understand why he wanted to go. She asked if there was someone else, and he lied and said no, and so she felt they should just carry on living their separate cohabiting life for the sake of the kids. She didn't know about me so it made no sense to her he would break the status quo. So they stayed together, and he told me he was going to try to make things work at home, but neither of them actually changed or tried to make it work. So the A started back up.

 

I actually think that is why he got more lax about hiding the A. I totally believe that on a surface level he wanted to be found out - to be thrown out - but then D-day the reality set in I guess. The begging. The endless tears. The hysterical children. He realised he didn't want to be the person that caused all that. He was overcome with guilt. Perhaps he even started doubting he wanted to go. But over the 5 weeks he became more and more sure he wanted to separate. The day he ended it when I saw him he was still saying he wanted to leave and he just had to to do it. I think he did truly want to leave - but as people say it is not words its action and so I pushed him and said its not about what he wants it about what he will actually do. I reminded him he'd had a perfect opportunity the previous weekend (on a rare occasion that the kids were out without either of them) to talk to his wife about them separating and him taking up a flat - but he didn't do it. So I felt if he couldn't do it then, then he was never going to do it. So I pushed him and asked him to forget what he wants, and tell me what does he think he is actually going to do. That's when finally he said he didn't think he could go through with it and he wasn't going to leave. So I thanked him for clarifying it and i walked off.

 

I know he cannot fix his marriage with me in the sidelines. I know I can't keep hanging on forever for him to take action and leave. I know the A can't carry on now due to D-day. I guess when I say he ended it, it was really me. I ended it. He told me he wouldn't leave and so I ended it. Had she never found out would i still be in the A - probably. But now I need to make this the end of it. I am worried everyone keeps saying he will come back - I just want this to be the end.

 

I am hurting as I am grieving the loss of our relationship. I am hurting because towards the end of the 5 weeks he really made me believe he was going to leave and I had started to prepare for that eventuality and get my mind around it - and then when he said he wouldn't leave I felt rejected, and anger that he had strung me along. But I can see now though he was in turmoil; that perhaps he really didn't know what he was going to do, that perhaps he hadn't even admitted to himself he couldn't do it … and as someone said before, I can see now that I shouldn't blame him for how I feel. I can see now that I shouldn't take it personally, I need to see that him not leaving has nothing to do with me.

 

…But all this wisdom I am finding from listening, and reading, and talking through my situation, is so hard to action. I still hurt. I still miss him so so so much. Despite my best efforts, I still spent the whole day checking my phone. I desperately want to be able to fast forwarded to when I will feel better.

 

Thank you everyone for your continued support and words.

 

I feel your pain. I've been there. He says he wants you and he really does. I truly believed the same in my situation.

 

The problem is he won't, not can't, take action. So many OW repeatedly say their MM can't leave. It's not true ... They WON'T. Conflict avoidant people will not take the direct steps necessary to be honest and divorce. It's the nature of the affair... Lies, secrets, and escape. All that crashes when the fantasy becomes reality. Sure they want you but in the battle between their words and actions, the words are all that's left.

 

OW need to realize it's not personal. These men are incapable of putting anyone ahead of themselves. The selfishness supersedes their wives, children, jobs, and their OW. Most of these men are in crisis for one reason or another and, once the selfishness and entitlement takes over, they are incapable of being trusted by anyone.

 

I say all of this not to make excuses for anyone. It's simply an understanding I've reached over time. When an affair ends and everyone looks at the reality of it, most will find it was the perfect storm of two lost souls colliding.

 

The collateral damage to everyone else is what makes it so horrible yet it's the best thing to focus on to move forward. The pain caused to others is reality. Both the MM and the OW are responsible for that, without excuses.

 

Forward for the single OW also means the opportunity to find real devotion and love with a single man. Only those who find it after an affair truly understand what you shortchanged yourself with an affair.

Edited March 6, 2016 by HappyAgain2014

[Pili-Pala]

I feel your pain. I've been there. He says he wants you and he really does. I truly believed the same in my situation.

 

The problem is he won't, not can't, take action. So many OW repeatedly say their MM can't leave. It's not true ... They WON'T. Conflict avoidant people will not take the direct steps necessary to be honest and divorce. It's the nature of the affair... Lies, secrets, and escape. All that crashes when the fantasy becomes reality. Sure they want you but in the battle between their words and actions, the words are all that's left.

 

OW need to realize it's not personal. These men are incapable of putting anyone ahead of themselves. The selfishness supersedes their wives, children, jobs, and their OW. Most of these men are in crisis for one reason or another and, once the selfishness and entitlement takes over, they are incapable of being trusted by anyone.

 

I say all of this not to make excuses for anyone. It's simply an understanding I've reached over time. When an affair ends and everyone looks at the reality of it, most will find it was the perfect storm of two lost souls colliding.

 

The collateral damage to everyone else is what makes it so horrible yet it's the best thing to focus on to move forward. The pain caused to others is reality. Both the MM and the OW are responsible for that, without excuses.

 

Forward for the single OW also means the opportunity to find real devotion and love with a single man. Only those who find it after an affair truly understand what you shortchanged yourself with an affair.

 

 

Not can't but won't. Absolutely. That's absolutely right. It is a choice he is making. Is it selfishness though? To be honest in this case I am not entirely sure that is right. Having an affair - yes, yes that is selfish. Not leaving when that is really what you want to do so - not so sure that is selfishness. Sure I think it is conflict avoiding, spinelessness, fear, not willing to take a risk, taking the easy way out.... but selfish? I don't think its simple as that. That is what makes it so hard, selfish I could deal with. Selfish you can be angry at. Selfish is a trait that doesn't sit well ever. But these other things, they are just sad....

 

 

They're very confused people, MM. I do feel a bit sorry for the type who really do want to leave but can't. I have no problem ending something that just doesn't work for me. I'm the opposite of BW. If I found out my H was cheating on me, I'd kick his ass out so fast he wouldn't even know what hit him. I don't understand women who hang on to cheating husbands, except when they are financially dependent. Which is why I am not and never will be dependent on a man. Been there, done that, and never again.

 

Recently I have felt desperately sad for his W. I think I have felt more for his wife these last 5 weeks then I have the whole time (obviously very much choosing to think about her as little as possible during the A!). I can't understand why she would take him back. And I can see he is still lying to her. And I can see he is not even trying to make things work at home, yet she is still accepting him. I have wondered if she would think/act differently if she knew it was 2 years and not 3months, and if she understood just how full on an EA and PA it was, but I don't think she would think/act differently. I agree 13Hearts that I could never find myself in the situation she is in - but then I guess this comes back to what you and many others have pointed out - independence; that is what attract our MM to us in the first first, and that is what makes her so different to us and think so differently with a different perspective. Her two fears are her financial dependance on him and her fear of being alone. She can't see how she will be financially better off without him, and she can't imagine someone else coming into her life and showing her a lot more love. She would rather stay and be unhappy then take the risk of standing on her own two feet with two small children. I get that. To be honest as much as we are different we are also similar in that regard …. I am pining to stay in a relationship with this man with issues and baggage in the middle of a D-day bomb site, than to accept and realises I have to get up and move on…. and actively CHOOSE and DO it. I need to take that independence and make it work for me in a positive way for once.

 

 

That is why I am re-reading these posts over and over again. It's absolutely about separating xMM from myself and my feelings. I need to stop thinking about his life and his choices. I need to stop thinking about his W and her choices. I need to focus on me now and moving on from this.

 

I just released; that's the first time I have referred to him as xMM - that's got to be progress right?

[sandylee1]

I would steer away from the thinking that MM ONLY have affairs with financially independent women.

 

There are independent successful women that are cheated on and there are men that choose to have affairs with stay at home moms. They have affairs because they WANT TO.

 

MM who are genuinely unhappy and have affairs , rather than divorce are quite simply weak and conflict avoidance. The alternative is the marriage isn't nearly as bad as they make out to be.

 

This isn't meant as an attack at all. .please don't take it as such...... I'm trying to understand how different is it being the OW knowing your married boyfriend is a cheat and a liar....to being the wife who discovers an affair and tries to reconcile? Because the way you phrase it ... it's as though you think she is foolish for accepting a cheating man ... but that's exactly what you've done by being part of this adultery. Not you alone..but all OW.

 

Do you not think he's possibly told his wife about you meaning nothing and being a big mistake.... so please please give him another chance to prove how much he really loves her. Most WS beg and plead on DD.

[Pili-Pala]

I would steer away from the thinking that MM ONLY have affairs with financially independent women.

 

There are independent successful women that are cheated on and there are men that choose to have affairs with stay at home moms. They have affairs because they WANT TO.

 

MM who are genuinely unhappy and have affairs , rather than divorce are quite simply weak and conflict avoidance. The alternative is the marriage isn't nearly as bad as they make out to be.

 

This isn't meant as an attack at all. .please don't take it as such...... I'm trying to understand how different is it being the OW knowing your married boyfriend is a cheat and a liar....to being the wife who discovers an affair and tries to reconcile? Because the way you phrase it ... it's as though you think she is foolish for accepting a cheating man ... but that's exactly what you've done by being part of this adultery. Not you alone..but all OW.

 

Do you not think he's possibly told his wife about you meaning nothing and being a big mistake.... so please please give him another chance to prove how much he really loves her. Most WS beg and plead on DD.

 

 

Hi Sandylee1,

 

Thank you for your thoughts. But i think you misunderstood me. I don't think all MM have affairs only with independent woman. I just meant it sounds as thought my xMM and 13Hearts's xMM were both attracted to us due to our independence - and was hypothesising that perhaps our differences in outlook, circumstance etc. to the BS are what makes us struggle to understand how they can act as they do. I realise MM have affairs with all different types of people. As much as stories are all very similar, they are each of course still a unique mix of circumstances in their own way.

 

I know he told her it was over, that it meant nothing, that is wasn't real and it was a mistake. At least initially after D-day. But I also know on D-day he told her he didn't love her and I know he told her lots of other things that that were not so reconciliatory and that he said he didn't think they could work it out. Yes she did beg him. Several times. I do also understand why a BS spouse would want to try reconciliation - at least the first time. Please bear in mind this is also not his first affair and d-day, this is also not their first conversation about separating, this far from the first time they have made a decision to work on their marriage - only they never do actually make that decision as they never actually act on it and just drift and return to status quo. That's why I am certain he will have another A. Their issues have been going on for years and neither of them seem to want to make the effort to fix it. But I don't want to keep going into all that as that is their stuff.... As many people say, the result is he is not leaving however whichever way I look at it and analyse it, he is not leaving. And having now walked away, I am absolutely giving him space to work out his M if that's what they want to do. All I am saying is my gut is that they can't fix it - I am doing nothing at this point to prevent them doing that? Am I? If so what, as I don't understand what I am doing and would like to stop whatever it is.

 

I think you are taking my comments as general sweeping statements and that is not my intention at all. Just because I think under the unique circumstances of my situation his W is foolish for taking him back - I don't not think all BS are foolish to do so.

 

Am I just as foolish for being in an A with this cheating man? Yes. I think I already admitted that.

[13Hearts]

Don't leave your job. This crap will blow over eventually. I know. I've been there. I'm still there, actually. Only the xMM is the owner of the company and his son and daughter know about our affair. His son is one of my bosses.

 

Are we having fun yet?

 

In my case, I do plan to leave as soon as I have a substantial amount of money in the bank. The situation is something I want to be away from. I have become licensed in another field and am letting it gain momentum. But I'm at the stage where there's very little emotion involved. I simply want to go.

 

What you'll need to do is remind yourself over and over that your xMM knows what he did and he knows how much he lied to you. Let him deal with that and his lousy marriage. Keep your head held high and concentrate on your work. You're not going to be perfect all the time but you'll get there. And then, one day, you'll realize that you can't continue to hold a torch for a guy who was willing to hurt you the way he did. It took me a long time to get there but I did.

 

My xMM is charming and intelligent, a great boss, and many other admirable things. But when a man decides that he can do as he pleases, that he can hurt me and jerk me around, and knows he can get away with it, I have a real problem with that. Someday you'll feel differently about your xMM.

 

What man does not think he can do as he pleases? Married or not? xMM actually expected me, without muttering a word about it to me, to remain silent and make no noise while he called his wife. I was just supposed to "assume the position" so to speak. As if to say, "This relationship is illicit to me, therefore, it must be illicit to you." Talk about being completely ignored! And the entire affair was that way. He would show up when it was convenient or possible for him, but I could never ask that he attend something with me or help me with something during a time when he was expected to be home or with his wife. My schedule and my wants simply did not matter. As long as he was getting what he wanted, we were on and he would not stop texting me while we were apart. With zero consideration to what my life was like or how I felt as a result, he continued this, and very quickly my life degraded, constantly on my phone, texting, or interrupting everything I was doing or had planned to do, when he showed up. I had no way of anticipating when I would see him, and no way to communicate with him other than the telephone. And texting takes a lot of time and attention. As soon as I stopped allowing that, stopped making myself available to him and stopped responding to his texts, he (eventually) went away. I've hardly heard a peep from him since.

 

Other men I've been in relationships with were basically the same, simply did as they pleased without bothering to check with me, negotiate, or come to some kind of agreement about it, despite the probability that their actions would affect me immensely, and sometimes even disastrously. One thought it was perfectly acceptable to go on crack and booze benders, another moved to another state (close by) when we lived together and expected me to drive there to see him, another expected me to just leave my place and move in with him, another simply moved himself and his children into my house.

 

Many women I talk to gripe about how selfish and self-centered men are. It's true. But we attribute that selfishness to their immorality. Could it be, instead, that they are just selfish and self-centered without being immoral? When we expect them to be something they simply are not (other-focused), we are sure to be disappointed and hurt.

 

And as for happy marriages? I don't know of many. Maybe two. In one of them, the couple has been together since junior high and focused all their efforts on raising their children but still enjoyed eachother's company. I think people become complacent and settle for what's good enough because it's too scary and troublesome to start over anew.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts this morning.

[13Hearts]

Not can't but won't. Absolutely. That's absolutely right. It is a choice he is making. Is it selfishness though? To be honest in this case I am not entirely sure that is right. Having an affair - yes, yes that is selfish. Not leaving when that is really what you want to do so - not so sure that is selfishness. Sure I think it is conflict avoiding, spinelessness, fear, not willing to take a risk, taking the easy way out.... but selfish? I don't think its simple as that. That is what makes it so hard, selfish I could deal with. Selfish you can be angry at. Selfish is a trait that doesn't sit well ever. But these other things, they are just sad....

 

Recently I have felt desperately sad for his W. I think I have felt more for his wife these last 5 weeks then I have the whole time (obviously very much choosing to think about her as little as possible during the A!). I can't understand why she would take him back. And I can see he is still lying to her. And I can see he is not even trying to make things work at home, yet she is still accepting him. I have wondered if she would think/act differently if she knew it was 2 years and not 3months, and if she understood just how full on an EA and PA it was, but I don't think she would think/act differently. I agree 13Hearts that I could never find myself in the situation she is in - but then I guess this comes back to what you and many others have pointed out - independence; that is what attract our MM to us in the first first, and that is what makes her so different to us and think so differently with a different perspective. Her two fears are her financial dependance on him and her fear of being alone. She can't see how she will be financially better off without him, and she can't imagine someone else coming into her life and showing her a lot more love. She would rather stay and be unhappy then take the risk of standing on her own two feet with two small children. I get that. To be honest as much as we are different we are also similar in that regard …. I am pining to stay in a relationship with this man with issues and baggage in the middle of a D-day bomb site, than to accept and realises I have to get up and move on…. and actively CHOOSE and DO it. I need to take that independence and make it work for me in a positive way for once.

 

That is why I am re-reading these posts over and over again. It's absolutely about separating xMM from myself and my feelings. I need to stop thinking about his life and his choices. I need to stop thinking about his W and her choices. I need to focus on me now and moving on from this.

 

I just released; that's the first time I have referred to him as xMM - that's got to be progress right?

 

Wow! This is a great post! Thank you!

 

Yes, that is progress I have also only very recently been able to refer to xMM as "ex." All this time I have believed that he really would leave her. Because that is what he told me. His story from day 1 has been that he does not want to be married to her any longer. I've left him alone for a while and refused to be involved with him at any level of intimacy until he did leave her, but I've kept my life on hold for far too long.

 

Thank you so much, Pili-Pala, for joining this site and posting here. I can't tell you how much this is helping me!! I feel like I've turned over a new leaf.

[lemondrop21]

I would steer away from the thinking that MM ONLY have affairs with financially independent women.

 

There are independent successful women that are cheated on and there are men that choose to have affairs with stay at home moms. They have affairs because they WANT TO.

 

Agree with this point... from what I've read about affairs, my understanding is that often, MM who have a SAHM spouse will have an affair with a more "independent" career-type woman, while MM with a career-driven spouse will be drawn towards the SAHM-type as an OW. Of course, this isn't ALWAYS the case as all affairs are different. I think this pattern tends to crop up because people are looking for something that they perceive as new and different... it's human nature.

 

 

Recently I have felt desperately sad for his W. I think I have felt more for his wife these last 5 weeks then I have the whole time (obviously very much choosing to think about her as little as possible during the A!). I can't understand why she would take him back. And I can see he is still lying to her. And I can see he is not even trying to make things work at home, yet she is still accepting him. I have wondered if she would think/act differently if she knew it was 2 years and not 3months, and if she understood just how full on an EA and PA it was, but I don't think she would think/act differently. I agree 13Hearts that I could never find myself in the situation she is in - but then I guess this comes back to what you and many others have pointed out - independence; that is what attract our MM to us in the first first, and that is what makes her so different to us and think so differently with a different perspective. Her two fears are her financial dependance on him and her fear of being alone. She can't see how she will be financially better off without him, and she can't imagine someone else coming into her life and showing her a lot more love. She would rather stay and be unhappy then take the risk of standing on her own two feet with two small children. I get that. To be honest as much as we are different we are also similar in that regard …. I am pining to stay in a relationship with this man with issues and baggage in the middle of a D-day bomb site, than to accept and realises I have to get up and move on…. and actively CHOOSE and DO it. I need to take that independence and make it work for me in a positive way for once.

 

It's kind of a sad feeling, isn't it? To still want this man on some level, after everything. I think the key is realizing that it's not the real him that you want. You want the man you thought he was in the beginning, the fantasy man, the man who seemed just perfect for you except for the one complication of his marriage - oh, but it was a terrible, un-fixable marriage and he was destined to leave and do what was best for everyone including the wife.

 

But then... reality hits. He waffles. Again and again. Maybe the marriage isn't actually un-fixable. And what does "un-fixable" even mean? Where do you draw the line? Where does he draw the line? Where does his wife draw the line? You wake up one day thinking, "How on earth did I get SO involved in the details of someone else's marriage???"

 

I need to read this thread closely from the beginning, but I think you said he is trickle-truthing his wife (although that may have been another poster, not OP). I think you know, deep down, that you wouldn't really want someone who might do that to you someday. So, mourn the fantasy. Just keep reminding yourself that that's all it was.

Edited March 6, 2016 by lemondrop21

[HappyAgain2014]

Not can't but won't. Absolutely. That's absolutely right. It is a choice he is making. Is it selfishness though? To be honest in this case I am not entirely sure that is right. Having an affair - yes, yes that is selfish. Not leaving when that is really what you want to do so - not so sure that is selfishness. Sure I think it is conflict avoiding, spinelessness, fear, not willing to take a risk, taking the easy way out.... but selfish? I don't think its simple as that. That is what makes it so hard, selfish I could deal with. Selfish you can be angry at. Selfish is a trait that doesn't sit well ever. But these other things, they are just sad....

 

Recently I have felt desperately sad for his W. I think I have felt more for his wife these last 5 weeks then I have the whole time (obviously very much choosing to think about her as little as possible during the A!). I can't understand why she would take him back. And I can see he is still lying to her. And I can see he is not even trying to make things work at home, yet she is still accepting him. I have wondered if she would think/act differently if she knew it was 2 years and not 3months, and if she understood just how full on an EA and PA it was, but I don't think she would think/act differently. I agree 13Hearts that I could never find myself in the situation she is in - but then I guess this comes back to what you and many others have pointed out - independence; that is what attract our MM to us in the first first, and that is what makes her so different to us and think so differently with a different perspective. Her two fears are her financial dependance on him and her fear of being alone. She can't see how she will be financially better off without him, and she can't imagine someone else coming into her life and showing her a lot more love. She would rather stay and be unhappy then take the risk of standing on her own two feet with two small children. I get that. To be honest as much as we are different we are also similar in that regard …. I am pining to stay in a relationship with this man with issues and baggage in the middle of a D-day bomb site, than to accept and realises I have to get up and move on…. and actively CHOOSE and DO it. I need to take that independence and make it work for me in a positive way for once.

 

That is why I am re-reading these posts over and over again. It's absolutely about separating xMM from myself and my feelings. I need to stop thinking about his life and his choices. I need to stop thinking about his W and her choices. I need to focus on me now and moving on from this.

 

I just released; that's the first time I have referred to him as xMM - that's got to be progress right?

 

It's hard to see but it's absolutely true that selfishness drives them. They don't want to lose what they have. Everything ... Children, money, status... is part of their life with their wife. Let's not forget that they also loved their wife enough to marry her at some point. The problem with accepting his selfishness for the OW is that reality makes them feel used and stupid so we kid ourselves that he's just a great dad who will be a martyr.

 

Most OW never had a chance but didn't realize it until it was too late. Again, I believe many MM loved their OW. In a different time and place, they would have been together but that's not reality. The reckless behavior of affairs causes them to say what they feel without feeling a sense of responsibility for living up to it.

 

I did feel angry. Angry when I realized I fooled myself, he fooled himself, me, and his wife. I played a part in that believing I was saving this man from misery. None of that was mean spirited on his part. He was a bundle of resentment, sadness, and routine when I met him. Together we felt alive and connected. Of course it felt like some twisted sense of destiny. Reality was both of us took the wrong road to deal with our issues and ended up destroying ourselves and others.

 

The independence you mentioned is a bonus in the beginning but it also becomes a detriment. My xMM said it loved it yet it threatened him. I believe he knew my financial independence meant I wasn't guaranteed to stay with him.

 

Finally, his wife. Don't be so sure you understand her motives. What you perceive as uncertainty and dependence may very well be her commitment to her marriage and keeping her family together. I doubt it's about money and whether she can find someone else. What she's thinking about is not seeing her children 50% of the time, another woman sharing that 50% with her kids, and losing her life as she knows it. Never underestimate the power of seeing the pain you've caused to another person. He's seeing that with his wife and I'm sure that's impacted him.

 

Try to resist the urge to analyze what you think you know and bargain all sides of it. The best thing you can do is move on.

[Pili-Pala]

So first day back in work today and I think I did well. It went better then I anticipated at least.

 

Did I speak to him other then as necessary (which was one work meeting)? no

Did I make personal contact with him via email or text ? no

We're 3 of the 7 work emails I sent him really necessary to send? no

Should I have made two brief unnecessary comments within emails half referring to our situation? no

Overall personal-NC performance = 6/10 - can do better.

 

Did I think about him all day - yes

Did I constantly check his diary appointments all day to know where he was and when - yes

Was I upset that he wasn't trying to contact me - completely devastated

Do I feel like he has just completely forgotten about me and our A - yes I felt like i had been put out with the rubbish

 

Overall I feel ok about today. I think I did good. But my concern is that I feel that right at the start it is easier. Last time it was when it got to the two weeks mark it started to get harder. Then I caved and when I look back I am actually now astonished at how quickly it escalated and we fell back into A - like 24 hours tops. I know that occasion was different though, as there was no dday that time. This time I think he will be more determined to stick with NC - I actually think he will do it for my sake not his - and I was thinking today that this is what I am going to start finding harder and harder to deal with. The fact he can do it. Then I came on here tonight and read a few posts about that very thing - and now I am wondering how people a bit further along in recovery coped with that?

 

I am also worried I seem to be coping so well. My two friends who know my situation well are also saying they think I am "managing fantastically well". They even seem a bit surprised - although one did comment they are not that surprised as I have always been pragmatic (?!?) But now I am slightly concerned this isn't real, this hope, this optimism, this determination that I will get through this... I can't really explain what I mean but am worried this is all false coping. That it's sort of like a calm before a storm. Did anyone else experience that? How do I prepare myself for that? As I am worried I am going to flip and suddenly go haywire and before I know it I will have emailed him to tell him how hurt I am and how much I miss him etc etc.

 

Am I overthinking? I feel now like I'm overthinking.

 

Arrrrggghhhh!!!!!

[HappyAgain2014]

Aside from so many reasons that were in my best interests, all I had to do was think of his wife. That erased any momentary thoughts of contacting him.

 

Remember that you want to have respect for yourself. Resuming the affair destroys that.

[Bufo]

Short version. You have been given a gift by him. The gift of seeing his true character in all it's self centered ugliness. Don't reject that gift. Act on it.

 

What would you tell your sister or girlfriend if she was in this situation ?

 

In short he isn't worth any time spent thinking of this as a lost romance. Be thankful that you weren't in deeper.

[solonely9]

Hi, Pili-Pala:

 

 

I think you're doing great. It is Day 1, after all.

 

 

I'm going through the same right now and have the same worries. My xMM (yes, I too just started adding the "x") contacted me yesterday, asking me to go for coffee. I came back here, reminded myself what I should do, and, today, I called him to tell him that we needed to go into NC. He agreed. So, yes, I am also hurt that he is able to do it, that it is so easy for him. This has been one of the worst days of my life. I have been crying all day and am extremely depressed. So depressed that I ended up contacting a therapist. Like you, I am afraid that, at one point, I am just going to start calling him and emailing him like crazy. So, for the purpose of not doing that, I keep on coming back here. Hang in there

[ladydesigner]

I feel your pain. I've been there. He says he wants you and he really does. I truly believed the same in my situation.

 

The problem is he won't, not can't, take action. So many OW repeatedly say their MM can't leave. It's not true ... They WON'T. Conflict avoidant people will not take the direct steps necessary to be honest and divorce. It's the nature of the affair... Lies, secrets, and escape. All that crashes when the fantasy becomes reality. Sure they want you but in the battle between their words and actions, the words are all that's left.

 

OW need to realize it's not personal. These men are incapable of putting anyone ahead of themselves. The selfishness supersedes their wives, children, jobs, and their OW. Most of these men are in crisis for one reason or another and, once the selfishness and entitlement takes over, they are incapable of being trusted by anyone.

 

I say all of this not to make excuses for anyone. It's simply an understanding I've reached over time. When an affair ends and everyone looks at the reality of it, most will find it was the perfect storm of two lost souls colliding.

 

The collateral damage to everyone else is what makes it so horrible yet it's the best thing to focus on to move forward. The pain caused to others is reality. Both the MM and the OW are responsible for that, without excuses.

 

Forward for the single OW also means the opportunity to find real devotion and love with a single man. Only those who find it after an affair truly understand what you shortchanged yourself with an affair.

 

OMG this should seriously be a sticky.

 

I'm going to say this is most MM. This is an exact description of my WS, no doubt.

[ladydesigner]

Hi, Pili-Pala:

 

 

I think you're doing great. It is Day 1, after all.

 

 

I'm going through the same right now and have the same worries. My xMM (yes, I too just started adding the "x") contacted me yesterday, asking me to go for coffee. I came back here, reminded myself what I should do, and, today, I called him to tell him that we needed to go into NC. He agreed. So, yes, I am also hurt that he is able to do it, that it is so easy for him. This has been one of the worst days of my life. I have been crying all day and am extremely depressed. So depressed that I ended up contacting a therapist. Like you, I am afraid that, at one point, I am just going to start calling him and emailing him like crazy. So, for the purpose of not doing that, I keep on coming back here. Hang in there

 

(((solonely))) you are doing the best thing for yourself. Look you were strong today. Very strong, YOU told him you needed to be NC. You go girl!

[ladydesigner]

It's hard to see but it's absolutely true that selfishness drives them. They don't want to lose what they have. Everything ... Children, money, status... is part of their life with their wife. Let's not forget that they also loved their wife enough to marry her at some point. The problem with accepting his selfishness for the OW is that reality makes them feel used and stupid so we kid ourselves that he's just a great dad who will be a martyr.

 

Most OW never had a chance but didn't realize it until it was too late. Again, I believe many MM loved their OW. In a different time and place, they would have been together but that's not reality. The reckless behavior of affairs causes them to say what they feel without feeling a sense of responsibility for living up to it.

 

I did feel angry. Angry when I realized I fooled myself, he fooled himself, me, and his wife. I played a part in that believing I was saving this man from misery. None of that was mean spirited on his part. He was a bundle of resentment, sadness, and routine when I met him. Together we felt alive and connected. Of course it felt like some twisted sense of destiny. Reality was both of us took the wrong road to deal with our issues and ended up destroying ourselves and others.

 

The independence you mentioned is a bonus in the beginning but it also becomes a detriment. My xMM said it loved it yet it threatened him. I believe he knew my financial independence meant I wasn't guaranteed to stay with him.

 

Finally, his wife. Don't be so sure you understand her motives. What you perceive as uncertainty and dependence may very well be her commitment to her marriage and keeping her family together. I doubt it's about money and whether she can find someone else. What she's thinking about is not seeing her children 50% of the time, another woman sharing that 50% with her kids, and losing her life as she knows it. Never underestimate the power of seeing the pain you've caused to another person. He's seeing that with his wife and I'm sure that's impacted him.

 

Try to resist the urge to analyze what you think you know and bargain all sides of it. The best thing you can do is move on.

 

Yup exactly!

[Grey Cloud]

So first day back in work today and I think I did well. It went better then I anticipated at least.

 

Did I speak to him other then as necessary (which was one work meeting)? no

Did I make personal contact with him via email or text ? no

We're 3 of the 7 work emails I sent him really necessary to send? no

Should I have made two brief unnecessary comments within emails half referring to our situation? no

Overall personal-NC performance = 6/10 - can do better.

 

Did I think about him all day - yes

Did I constantly check his diary appointments all day to know where he was and when - yes

Was I upset that he wasn't trying to contact me - completely devastated

Do I feel like he has just completely forgotten about me and our A - yes I felt like i had been put out with the rubbish

 

Overall I feel ok about today. I think I did good. But my concern is that I feel that right at the start it is easier. Last time it was when it got to the two weeks mark it started to get harder. Then I caved and when I look back I am actually now astonished at how quickly it escalated and we fell back into A - like 24 hours tops. I know that occasion was different though, as there was no dday that time. This time I think he will be more determined to stick with NC - I actually think he will do it for my sake not his - and I was thinking today that this is what I am going to start finding harder and harder to deal with. The fact he can do it. Then I came on here tonight and read a few posts about that very thing - and now I am wondering how people a bit further along in recovery coped with that?

 

I am also worried I seem to be coping so well. My two friends who know my situation well are also saying they think I am "managing fantastically well". They even seem a bit surprised - although one did comment they are not that surprised as I have always been pragmatic (?!?) But now I am slightly concerned this isn't real, this hope, this optimism, this determination that I will get through this... I can't really explain what I mean but am worried this is all false coping. That it's sort of like a calm before a storm. Did anyone else experience that? How do I prepare myself for that? As I am worried I am going to flip and suddenly go haywire and before I know it I will have emailed him to tell him how hurt I am and how much I miss him etc etc.

 

Am I overthinking? I feel now like I'm overthinking.

 

Arrrrggghhhh!!!!!

 

Wow, reading this post totally reminds me of my situation - all of 4 to 6 weeks ago. In my case, we decided to end because xMM had found another job but we still had to work together for a few weeks. I was trying hard to let go and move on but doing all the same things you were doing - checking his diary constantly to see when and where he was, sending him "work" emails that weren't entirely necessary etc etc.

 

And yes, I ended up flipping and going haywire when originally I thought I was doing ok. I guess I was trying to get answers and closure but his responses were just not cutting it or making me feel any better. In fact once he had made up his mind I could sense him slipping away and could see he was focused on not looking backwards. It was tough even though I wanted it to end too and for the most part it was "amicable".

 

I really can't give you any advice except to hang in there! Things didn't start getting easier for me until he left. Until then I was obsessed and a slave to his schedule and what he was doing at work. The less you can do of that the better for your own sanity and strength.