My growing bitterness for men

[insert_name]

That is actually the biggest reason women never find anyone. We're all selective to some degree, but I think men are fine with "good enough," while women seek a combination of qualities and attributes that is rarely attainable, and when it is, they discover some bad quality they weren't even looking out for.

 

I know a woman who's 51 and a pear-shaped BBW. I don't fool around (I'm direct, not crude), so by the second date I discovered she wasn't into me. Because I'm still looking and because it turned out she's moving away soon, I made an exception to my policy and agreed to be "just friends" with her (as opposed to saying thank you for a nice date and not seeing her again).

 

So now I get from her story after story about the pigs she's meeting. What's happening is that she gets approached online by all these younger guys with cougar fantasies looking to get their freak on with a fat girl. They have that edgy excitement element she's looking for, but of course they all turn out to be jerks from her perspective. They want to meet and get in the sack. They're not looking for a relationship much less to grow old with her.

 

Yet she has this fantasy that she'll find an edgy guy who also wants to grow old with her. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Yep, with respect, women can't seem to work out the difference between being relationship material and hook up material. They seem to think that because a certain type of guy will have sex with them than another guy of that type will eventually wife them up.

 

Here is the acid test for ya: are these guys introducing you to their friends? No? Do the maths.....

[Aniela]

Yep, with respect, women can't seem to work out the difference between being relationship material and hook up material. They seem to think that because a certain type of guy will have sex with them than another guy of that type will eventually wife them up.

 

I don't think I know a woman who believes that, at all. I certainly don't feel that way.

 

I've come across a number of men, who become offended when thought of as relationship material, rather than hook-up material. I would think they're getting the better deal, since it would mean they were also loved and trusted (at least by women in my world).

[Wewon]

I don't think I know a woman who believes that, at all. I certainly don't feel that way.

 

I've come across a number of men, who become offended when thought of as relationship material, rather than hook-up material. I would think they're getting the better deal, since it would mean they were also loved and trusted (at least by women in my world).

 

Its the difference between being desired and lusted after versus being seen as useful for taking out the trash and shoveling the driveway.

 

I've found that women don't have a lot of empathy for this until they've been assigned to a "mom" role for a significant amount of time.

[joseb]

I'm worried not about seeking but dropping

 

See now I'm very non tolerant if a man tells me he's depressed or unstable in anyway or he shows any slight sign of troubles I run for the hills. I worry that I may not be giving men enough chance now because any sign of unhappiness I'm out like a flash of lightening I am wondering if my fear of them turning out badly holds me back or if I'm actually making wise choices.

 

My thread was sparked last night after telling a guy who's been promising to come see me that I wasn't willing to wait anymore we had talked about getting together for some time now (I didn't actually wait but I told him I was he had ask me not to have sex with other guys that's a lot to ask someone you haven't met I didn't fight it though it was sweet at the time so just said Ok) and basically I said that I was ready to move on from whatever it was we had going, so he told me I was a gold digger lol instead of just accepting my choice I'm a gold digger lol at no point did I ever accept his gifts or money which he offered a ton of times I always said no, now if we ever did meet down the road he burnt his bridge.

 

I don't feel that my generation has the skillset to be in a mature relationship I'm finding it really hard to find guys in touch with themself and I'll blame the internet over and over lol.

 

You say you are not given men chance, yet you agreed not to sleep with anyone because some guy you were chatting with told you not too? Why would you entertain that? And what's with all this offering you gifts? Massive red flags.

If he passed your filter, I would double check it. Maybe you are screening out decent guys while pandering to ones making grand gestures.

[Buddhist]

What appears to be missing from relating these days is simple companionship. It's all about sex and nothing else, well who really wants sex with someone who's a bad companion? I don't. I can see why many women decide to just live life alone and seek friendships instead. It's honestly not too difficult to be without sex or find sex substitutes (like toys etc) and then just seek other people for friendship and companionship. It's truly awful to be in a relationship with someone that lacks this and emotionally draining too.

 

I was also in the mode of just forgetting about love completely and to be honest it wasn't in the least bit a bitter or lonely place to be. It's actually a pretty viable lifestyle choice.

[xxoo]

You most likely to meet, or at least run across, better men. The question is, why aren't you mutually attracted to them?

 

Do they overlook you, or do you overlook them? Or both?

 

Are you attracted to stable, dependable guys, caring guys?

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

You should feel lucky that having bitterness and resentment will not hurt your chances of meeting and landing another date, relationship since you are a woman

[Omei]

Yep, with respect, women can't seem to work out the difference between being relationship material and hook up material. They seem to think that because a certain type of guy will have sex with them than another guy of that type will eventually wife them up.

 

Here is the acid test for ya: are these guys introducing you to their friends? No? Do the maths.....

 

I think a lot of woman know the difference between guys who want sex and guys who want relationships.

 

Friends don't ever get immediately meshed in so it's up to girls and guys to figure it out on their own they can't use that as an indicator out of the gate.

[Omei]

You say you are not given men chance, yet you agreed not to sleep with anyone because some guy you were chatting with told you not too? Why would you entertain that? And what's with all this offering you gifts? Massive red flags.

If he passed your filter, I would double check it. Maybe you are screening out decent guys while pandering to ones making grand gestures.

 

All of what you say is true and why I let him go, and that's how this post was made because he flipped lid when I came to my choice to move on, I found him to be every naive in how a relationships starts with the gift offering etc.

 

And today he send me a string of insulting msgs abut how he never wanted me in the first place I'm ugly yadda yadda

 

I made the best choice

[insert_name]

I think a lot of woman know the difference between guys who want sex and guys who want relationships.

 

Friends don't ever get immediately meshed in so it's up to girls and guys to figure it out on their own they can't use that as an indicator out of the gate.

 

I was actually thinking of a certain demographic when I said that, specifically the women referred to by the previous poster, often found on OLD who are not the most attractive and yet manage to occasionally snag a hot younger guy for a hook up and then think that one of them is going to wife her up one day.

 

It is a double edged sword- I don't like to believe in 'leagues' but on the other hand if you can't get the sort of outcome you want you have to look at the pond you are fishing in and whether you are using premium bait to lure a premium fish. A lack of realism is one of the main issues in dating these days from what I can see...and why not? Cheap thrill attention is very easy to come by (especially for women) on social media and as a result one thinks one is God's gift and our perception of who we can attract gets skewed and pretty much everyone (apart from the male top tier players) loses eventually.

[Robratory]

What do you think you need to do to meet a better kind of men?

 

Dude I have no clue lol

 

Well, put your propeller cap on and start thinking!

 

Are you looking for certain qualities that just happen to be found mostly in guys who are pigs?

 

Do you live in an area where most men are pigs?

 

You had said, "How many times I've been verbally abused simply for declining a date." How does that happen? I ask because, in my experience, most women decline a date by simply not responding anymore. If you get the abuse via dating site message, I would think the dating site would move quickly to boot the abuser if you reported it. Has this not been the case?

 

I'm assuming in the scenario above that you had a first meeting and then they asked out on a second date later, and you replied and said no. Most men won't react with verbal abuse when they are turned down, but they are more likely to react that way if they feel tricked. This not to "blame the victim," but think -- are you nice enough even when not attracted that men might feel you are attracted?

 

Are you an eager and engaged conversationalist even when you're not interested in the man? If yes, I'm not saying it's wrong to do that, but I think many men will take it as a sign that you are interested. In my experience, women who aren't interested tend to act uninterested. They'll reply to questions with monosyllabic answers or short phrases. They won't seem to care if you have things in common. They'll look around the room, and in general, act disinterested because they are disinterested.

 

I went through a bitter period in which I was convinced all dating-appropriate women were b*tches. I was wrong, of course, and what really needed to change was me and not womankind. Maybe you can gain some insight in this thread, I hope!

[Omei]

Well, put your propeller cap on and start thinking!

 

Are you looking for certain qualities that just happen to be found mostly in guys who are pigs?

 

Do you live in an area where most men are pigs?

 

You had said, "How many times I've been verbally abused simply for declining a date." How does that happen? I ask because, in my experience, most women decline a date by simply not responding anymore. If you get the abuse via dating site message, I would think the dating site would move quickly to boot the abuser if you reported it. Has this not been the case?

 

I'm assuming in the scenario above that you had a first meeting and then they asked out on a second date later, and you replied and said no. Most men won't react with verbal abuse when they are turned down, but they are more likely to react that way if they feel tricked. This not to "blame the victim," but think -- are you nice enough even when not attracted that men might feel you are attracted?

 

Are you an eager and engaged conversationalist even when you're not interested in the man? If yes, I'm not saying it's wrong to do that, but I think many men will take it as a sign that you are interested. In my experience, women who aren't interested tend to act uninterested. They'll reply to questions with monosyllabic answers or short phrases. They won't seem to care if you have things in common. They'll look around the room, and in general, act disinterested because they are disinterested.

 

I went through a bitter period in which I was convinced all dating-appropriate women were b*tches. I was wrong, of course, and what really needed to change was me and not womankind. Maybe you can gain some insight in this thread, I hope!

 

The qualities I'm seeking are pretty simple, close to family, good set of friends, polite funny etc....there out there when I think I've found one few weeks later I realize I haven't.

 

I'm not online right now, not doing OLD right now.

 

When I reject guys sometimes it with silence I have done that online it can still be met with anger or whining msgs

 

When I politely say sorry I'm not interested but take care, in life also it's usually met with a string of verbal abuse.

 

I've never really had a guy say oh that's your choice oh well and accept it for what it is.

 

Maybe I do live in a really ****ty area my town is pretty known for being one of the ****tiest in Canada regarding kind people for tourism.

[smackie9]

You need to change your perception. Being this loving unselfish loyal person doesn't grant you a man that should treat you right. I'm sorry but, your mind set is what gets you where you are every time. There must be something negative that keeps attracting you to these a holes. At the first sign of trouble, instead of walking away, you amp up treating them like a king with more love, more attention, etc....that is you mistake. You give more and more to a holes in hopes they will get better. Wrong wrong wrong. It's called self worth. You need to step back and make a man EARN what you have to offer. If they get bad you dump them and run. Stop being such a push over or you will never get respect.

[smackie9]

There are load of nice caring loving men out there that are ready to give.....you say that is what you want, but why try to mold a turn in a gold nugget. I suggest try meeting men through positive means, like doing charity work, or be a part of something positive. Positive activities brings positive, driven people.

[Omei]

You need to change your perception. Being this loving unselfish loyal person doesn't grant you a man that should treat you right. I'm sorry but, your mind set is what gets you where you are every time. There must be something negative that keeps attracting you to these a holes. At the first sign of trouble, instead of walking away, you amp up treating them like a king with more love, more attention, etc....that is you mistake. You give more and more to a holes in hopes they will get better. Wrong wrong wrong. It's called self worth. You need to step back and make a man EARN what you have to offer. If they get bad you dump them and run. Stop being such a push over or you will never get respect.

 

I get what you're saying but all I've been doing is walking away from men I haven't committed to anyone yet to give them love and attention or treat them like a king and I'm not really the type to pour out affections to a guy If I like him but I'll keep a good conversation going if I'm interested.

 

I haven't met a guy for a date since my post about the online dating guys and that was over a year ago.

 

I can't find a guy good enough TOO date.

 

I've given up mostly

 

Like the reason I gave the last guy a shot was because he was a good friend for about a year and was friends with another friend of mine it was clear we were not able to meet tho for whatever reasons and it only got ugly when I said I was going to move on, we never even met.

 

Maybe im just not enough I think I attract men because im deemed damaged goods, like I said im a single mom im very pretty but that only gos so far, I work minimum and live in a 2brd with my kid I think I get the lowest of the low in the good guys pool, I have plenty of men wanting to be with me I just know those men want me to take care of them =/

 

Get plenty of cougar chasers super hot guys but I know it's not like they actually want to be with me so I turn those away a lot.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[Woggle]

After my divorce I hated women with a capital H. All those years of abuse and bad relationships came to me like a tsunami and I thought the solution was to throw some hate back in the other direction but it did nothing to make me happy. It just showed that the people who abused me had won and it nearly destroyed a relationship I had with a truly great woman. Realize that men just like women are all individuals and for the most part we have the same emotions and fears and feelings. At the end of the day a lot of the posturing men do is similar to the I don't need a man stuff from women in the sense that it is a suit of armor to protect us from hurt.

[spiderowl]

I miss how it used to be with men it doesn't seem like it's this way anymore in the past a man would court you he would date you he wouldn't ask sexual things of you or even probe it for general discussion he would keep his mouth shut till you were his and ready. He would call and listen you would grow a bond and THEN finally after some time would sex come.

 

Oh how I sympathise! I know exactly where you are coming from with all this. I don't know what is the matter with guys these days. As you say, they seem so entitled. They want to know upfront if you are going to have sex with them - really?

 

I can only assume they are brainwashed by popular culture into thinking everyone is 'getting it' but them and that any woman not immediately happy to get involved in sex talk is 'holding out'. They seem to view this as unfair and a sign that you are not interested in them so they shouldn't waste their time. They are wrong in this but shoot themselves in foot. I know from experience that I can be interested in a guy then lose interest rapidly if he has no manners and pushes the sex agenda too early.

 

I guess it's this instant culture where you get things on demand. They expect sex on demand too and women are the providers who are not instant enough. I really think guys need to look at where they are are getting ideas about relationships from. Treating women like this is a good way to get rejected from the start.

[Omei]

Oh how I sympathise! I know exactly where you are coming from with all this. I don't know what is the matter with guys these days. As you say, they seem so entitled. They want to know upfront if you are going to have sex with them - really?

 

I can only assume they are brainwashed by popular culture into thinking everyone is 'getting it' but them and that any woman not immediately happy to get involved in sex talk is 'holding out'. They seem to view this as unfair and a sign that you are not interested in them so they shouldn't waste their time. They are wrong in this but shoot themselves in foot. I know from experience that I can be interested in a guy then lose interest rapidly if he has no manners and pushes the sex agenda too early.

 

I guess it's this instant culture where you get things on demand. They expect sex on demand too and women are the providers who are not instant enough. I really think guys need to look at where they are are getting ideas about relationships from. Treating women like this is a good way to get rejected from the start.

And this is why I can't find anyone to date no man can hold his freaking tongue long enough for me to want to be with him, I'll start interested but it's immediately killed by stupid commentary trying to curve to the sex conversation.

 

What you described is how I'm feeling about guys all the time nice guys bad guys whatever the guy they all seem to do this, and I love sex just when I'm ready tho, when I was younger guys were not so bold so you were able to get to know them without having to listen to how horny they are.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[AverageJoe1986]

Yep, with respect, women can't seem to work out the difference between being relationship material and hook up material. They seem to think that because a certain type of guy will have sex with them than another guy of that type will eventually wife them up.

 

Here is the acid test for ya: are these guys introducing you to their friends? No? Do the maths.....

 

This is one of the bigger takeaways I have from my fake profiles. There are just a flood of women on these OLD sites that are in the 4-7 categorie lookswise, nothing particularly spectacular in intelligence or personality who will chase down these 9/10 guys. They are on these sites for years on end and their Profiles all, to a woman, complain about timewasters, men after sex, etc. Yet they are prostrating themselves to the few men on the site who have literally hundreds of options. OF COURSE these guys are just using them for sex, I mean on what planet are these women stupid enough to believe a really hot, very professionally succesful guy is going to be the guy who grows old with them? I don't mean to be harsh but this situation means the 80% of the male population on these sites are trying to somehow meet the 7 or 8 women who will actually talk to them. It's just impossible.

[Shining One]

Just as it's important for you to confirm that a man has a genuine emotional interest in you, it is important for him to confirm that you have a sexual interest in him. I've waited patiently for "sex to come" in the past. It never happened. I have no interest in "courting" a woman for months only to find out she has no sexual interest in me. I've been through that enough times... never again.

[Wewon]

This whole, "What's with men these days?!" attitude is the kind of trap that you don't want to fall into. Its easy to not look at our part in our situation while pretending to take the high road.

 

If you've ever had a fling, a one night stand or a FB then you are just as much a part of the problem how we have become "these days" as any man, you just don't have the burden of initiation the way men do.

 

So can we please lay off the Rip VanWinkle routine?

[todreaminblue]

And this is why I can't find anyone to date no man can hold his freaking tongue long enough for me to want to be with him, I'll start interested but it's immediately killed by stupid commentary trying to curve to the sex conversation.

 

What you described is how I'm feeling about guys all the time nice guys bad guys whatever the guy they all seem to do this, and I love sex just when I'm ready tho, when I was younger guys were not so bold so you were able to get to know them without having to listen to how horny they are.

 

 

 

i think there are many men who know how to have appropriate conversation with women that tickle the intellectual funny bone and dont just discuss horniness.....online dating is a different story...like smackie said maybe find a guy who does charity work or selfless pursuits......and maybe then the conversations wont be so self centred around his horny state...most men do however think about sex ...apparently alot...something in time slots of minutes capacity..you just have to find the guy who only thinks it and talks about eggplant..thats my goal....to marry the next guy who talks about eggplant...a little voice told me thats the way for me to go.......lol...ahem..god has a sense of humor...especially in the creation of man and women....and conversations involving said man and women....quite funny sometimes....how we relate...yet dont....

 

 

i have a theory if you talk about how big the zucchini are at coles you saw the other day ....a man will quieten down and be confused long enough for you to steer the conversation elsewhere..............deb

Edited February 8, 2016 by todreaminblue

[edgygirl]

I disagree. Back then, the only way to meet someone was through friends or frequenting the same places (ie University) etc. Maybe because of that (maybe not, maybe it was just a more romantic era) men would behave with much more decency as they were part of your immediate social network. There are social consequences to being an a**hole if you know people who know the girl you behaved badly with.

 

Online... you don't usually know people in common... jerks will be jerks and suffer no consequences usually. That's why men went wild when dating rating apps such as Lulu started to appear. I saw a few of my friends being rated as bad daters. Hilarious... but of course these ended up being taken down.

 

Just wanted to add, I am in the age that was doing most of my dating in the 80s and 90s and that time period doesn't deserve the romanticizing and idealization that it is being given. There were plenty of a-holes back then, they just didn't have the expediency or anonymity of the internet working for them.

[Wewon]

I disagree. Back then, the only way to meet someone was through friends or frequenting the same places (ie University) etc. Maybe because of that (maybe not, maybe it was just a more romantic era) men would behave with much more decency as they were part of your immediate social network. There are social consequences to being an a**hole if you know people who know the girl you behaved badly with.

 

Online... you don't usually know people in common... jerks will be jerks and suffer no consequences usually. That's why men went wild when dating rating apps such as Lulu started to appear. I saw a few of my friends being rated as bad daters. Hilarious... but of course these ended up being taken down.

 

No, I lived it.

 

There were plenty of a-holes back then, that was when I first heard of f-buddies and friends with benefits and other sexual arrangements such as one night stands. There were also personal ads (pre OLD) that catered to people with different sexual taste.

 

There were plenty of very forward men, and there were just as many women willing to reward them for their crudeness while putting gentlemen on the back burner for safe keeping.

 

All the internet did was create a more efficient outlet.

 

I honestly don't see the benefit of idealizing that era in terms of what OP is dealing with.

[edgygirl]

I lived it too.

 

Never met any ******* at the time. Like, ever. Only when online dating appeared.

 

No, I lived it.

 

There were plenty of a-holes back then, that was when I first heard of f-buddies and friends with benefits and other sexual arrangements such as one night stands. There were also personal ads (pre OLD) that catered to people with different sexual taste.

 

There were plenty of very forward men, and there were just as many women willing to reward them for their crudeness while putting gentlemen on the back burner for safe keeping.

 

All the internet did was create a more efficient outlet.

 

I honestly don't see the benefit of idealizing that era in terms of what OP is dealing with.