My growing bitterness for men

[Httm]

I was young and I didn't stay....we don't need to analyze a past that's no longer relevant or apart of my life (teen years) I should of just left that part out knowing people would consider it to be part of my current feelings.

 

Like I said in my original post those I've over come those difficulties and viewed men in a very good way it's the last four years of interactions with men that Im picking at here.

 

People are right the game has changed it's extremely very hard to find a man who wants to build an emotional connection, seems to be the same for woman.

 

I honestly would be okay if the internet never happened lol

 

Teen years for 5 and then another 5 with another. Essentially, most of your young adult to adult childhood, which is very relevant.

[Omei]

This has nothing to do with generations just like it has nothing to do with men in general. those are just excuses and blanket generalizations.

 

Look at the men that you are CHOOSING! If someone is interested, they will meet you quickly. Why would you even associate with a guy who is dragging his feet at meeting, offering you money/gifts, and asking you to refrain from sex before you meet? What in the world? You are choosing these men.

 

"it was sweet at the time"- No, it wasn't. It was creepy, controlling, and absurd.

 

The man I spoke of was in our circle of friends I've knowing him for a really long time, I didn't find his request to remain open for him too weird because it was discussed, yeah maybe a bit controlling but I don't think he was meaning for it to be that way he just wanted to know if I was gonna get serious about us and I was. Obviously because I decided to let go of him because of his feet dragging clearly I didn't choose him.

[Aniela]

You won't get much sympathy from the nice, respectful men here. Women probably look past them because they're physically unattractive, boring or are a pushover. Good luck finding your hot "alpha male" who also treats you like a queen. I'm sure he's out there somewhere.

 

I've dealt with the same thing, as a woman who wasn't going after "hot alpha males" - whatever they are. I used to empathize with men who had trouble attracting women, until they made just this sort of assumption about me - and told me that since I was a woman, I had no troubles at all. Although I'm more like the girl in another thread, who feels like she isn't anyone's type.

 

Omei I don't blame you for running at the first sign of emotional problems. I wish I had done so myself with one guy (I have done with others, since then, who were actually in relationships, and trying to cheat on girlfriends - and to the guy above, they were not alpha males).

[Omei]

Teen years for 5 and then another 5 with another. Essentially, most of your young adult to adult childhood, which is very relevant.

 

Sorry but I really don't wanna hear from people about how I'm still supposed to be broken when I'm not it's very annoying. Like I said this is why I dislike sharing that part of my life people view you as a victim with no chance of recovery it's really bothersome to hear I'm supposed to work on stuff I don't care about and have gotten passed already with great success.

 

I knew when I wrote that many people were gonna zone to it like a moth and ignore everything else that I'm talking about here in the NOW.

 

I don't get why my past which holds no relevance to my happiness and life now has to be scoped my bad relationships of the past don't have to have any connection to my relationships now I certainly don't connect them.

 

The only time my past ever hold connection to the me now is when other people try to tell me it does, the girl who was in those relationships is nothing like the woman she is now.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Omei

[Omei]

 

Omei I don't blame you for running at the first sign of emotional problems. I wish I had done so myself with one guy (I have done with others, since then, who were actually in relationships, and trying to cheat on girlfriends - and to the guy above, they were not alpha males).

 

I worry that I'm too quick to judge tho Aniela, everyone has troubles and hardships I worry I'm quick to turn really nice men away because they opened up too fast or shared a little more than they should have about troubles because they feel I'm someone they feel like they can talk too, I worry I judge and flee good guys sometimes, because we all have troubles.

 

The type of guy I'm looking for his close with his family has a lot of friends and basically really truly doesn't need a gf and is just happy on his own and I'd only ad to his life, he's hard to find. A lot of guys my age seem unhappy.

[No_Go]

You read me wrong - I never said that you (or I, or whoever being abused in the past) is a "broken victim", the problem is that we have selected these people because of a reason.

 

It is not about sorrows, it is about awareness of your own picker for men.

 

The dynamics of dating/sex etc is determined by (both) dating partners. If you see different, consistently, it is either your picker, or your boundaries are not well defined for some reason. Just something to think about.

 

For the record I'm older than you (31) and in a normal relationship now, so I know it is possible to have one after abuse.

 

Okay you may have been in abusive relationships whatever your path doesn't mean I'm on the same path. I over came those a long time ago Those were relationships in my teens and I'm about to hit 30.

 

I've had various relationships since then and also waited to have them after my issues of anger and hate were resolved before I ever entered a new one. I'm really proud of my efforts on that I've never blamed future bfs for their wrong doings. That's why I mentioned it in the first place was because I know I'm not getting bitter because of them it's the men of the now that's making me feel this way.

 

Now I've been single and very ready for years but the dynamics of dating have changed soooo much to the 4 dates then sex expectations, and I'm extremely put off by this if you read over my posts my main issue here is how men bring up sex.

 

One of the things I hate most about sharing my past abusive relationships is people think your a victim forever broken, not yet fix and that's simply just not true you don't have to go through your whole life riding off the sorrows of your past.

[elaine567]

I have been in two abusive relationships by men one 5 year abusive one and another 5 year verbally abusive both different guys. I will say the verbal one did the most damage and holds my hate while the physical one I've managed to free myself of all distress and emotion.

 

I don't get why my past which holds no relevance to my happiness and life now has to be scoped my bad relationships of the past don't have to have any connection to my relationships now I certainly don't connect them.

 

It is because you brought it up, so posters then assumed it had relevance to the topic.

[Omei]

It is because you brought it up, so posters then assumed it had relevance to the topic.

 

I did bring it up in my main post only to show that those things can be overcome I brought it up to make point that afterwards I held no anger or labeled all men as abusers but they prob skimmed that part. I knew I'd prob get the type of feed back I am.

 

My main issue is men and how sex seems to trump emotional connection.

 

It should be noted I also don't go out and "pick" men I'm not on any dating sites right now unhappy kinda of men just kinda seems to rotate to me and I find out later, I often wonder if it's because of my "single mother" status that I'm viewed as damaged goods and will have low expectations, mine are very actually very high.

 

Sex lately has been a huge issue for me I love sex I can get down and kinky it's just that if a man brings up sex within like the first two months of knowing him I get sooooo turned off like the courtship the magic is just poof!

Edited February 7, 2016 by Omei

[Omei]

You read me wrong - I never said that you (or I, or whoever being abused in the past) is a "broken victim", the problem is that we have selected these people because of a reason.

 

It is not about sorrows, it is about awareness of your own picker for men.

 

The dynamics of dating/sex etc is determined by (both) dating partners. If you see different, consistently, it is either your picker, or your boundaries are not well defined for some reason. Just something to think about.

 

For the record I'm older than you (31) and in a normal relationship now, so I know it is possible to have one after abuse.

I'm glad for you yes they are!

I'm sure like me you've become very close to your self respect.

Tbh I think one of my biggest issues is I'm being very picky leaving no room for flaw.

[Maggie4]

Have you been online dating the past 4 years? Cos that would explain a lot. It will make you lose hope in human beings. And there's no need to go down that path.

As for blaming the internet, I can see if parents let video games be the baby sitter instead of interacting with their children, then the children grow up with poor social skill, and the internet is certainly a place for people with poor social skills to hide.

I suspect the lack of positive male role models is the source of a lot of relationship problems. Young men are being raised by single mothers, go to school where all the teachers are female, and they reach adulthood knowing nothing about how to treat women! It takes a father to show the son how to be a gentleman.

[edgygirl]

80s and 90s were certainly better... call me old all you want. People had respect, were legitimately interested in you as a person and not only in scoring. Relationships felt real, not this bs that happens today. Guys wanted to be your boyfriend and "fought" for that, treating you well etc.

 

Where has the world gone? I find the dating world today a disgusting, cold place.

 

I almost wish there was no internet and cellphones. And I'm a geek. But it feels like it made relationships banal and not a valued thing anymore :.|

 

I feel that I'm now getting to a point where I'm starting to have hatred and bitterness towards men I can feel it inside me growing I wish it wasn't there but with how things have gone its hard not too.

 

I have been in two abusive relationships by men one 5 year abusive one and another 5 year verbally abusive both different guys. I will say the verbal one did the most damage and holds my hate while the physical one I've managed to free myself of all distress and emotion.

 

I am in no way perfect but I pour my heart and soul into my relationships emotionally, financially I'm loyal I've never cheated I'm calm in a fight, I'm very good with communication and talking rationally esp with this site by my side I've learned a lot in relationships I'm extremely loving and overly forgiving I'm also very generous. Both men crushed me I recovered I never let their wrong doing hold my view and opinions of men in general. I have always been proud of that ability.

 

it's the last 4 years I have spent single that enrage me it's not because I haven't found someone it's because men in general seem to be entitled *******s. I cannot tell you how many times I have been treated like a sex object. How many times I've been verbally abused simply for declining a date ....it's in my right to do so. Guys will take interest and if I'm not interested back they don't accept it like an adult and move on no, I'm harassed I'm fat or ugly or a whore.

 

When I do find a nice guy I am often annoyed at how many times they try to turn every conversation into a sexual one, if I am digging a guy and I flirt they flirt back which is cool but then it often opens a flood gate for many men where they have no filter and think it's just a free for all and now I'm an open book because I flirted a little.

 

How men handle rejection bugs me a lot in my experience many do not know how to handle rejection and they feel it's justification to go full out psycho, when I'm rejected I say okay take care when men are rejected from what I've endured it's a free for all to take the piss out of someone.

 

Back in August of 2015 I had a male co worker stalk me home lie to me at my door about needing help then forcing himself upon me once inside with his con lie, he was fired the next day his reason? I smile and am always nice to him that's just ****ing acting professional at work if you asked me.

 

Lots of men seem to charm you into thinking there's chemistry when there really isn't and I've come to notice they're lying, and often have gfs.

 

When you do finally agree to open up to a man say sexually they're constantly probing for more and seeing what they can get away with adding pressure till you have to tell them to back off.

 

I miss how it used to be with men it doesn't seem like it's this way anymore in the past a man would court you he would date you he wouldn't ask sexual things of you or even probe it for general discussion he would keep his mouth shut till you were his and ready. He would call and listen you would grow a bond and THEN finally after some time would sex come.

 

All the men now seem to just want quick relationships with fast sexual outcomes like sex expectations within the first two weeks.

 

No man seems to want to make a girl feel loved and cherished without expecting anything in immediate return these days.

 

I wanna go back to the 80's/90's sighhhhh were we still had young men giving a damn.

 

I'm sure there is a good man out there somewhere, someplace but my last 4 years of single hood I have found the majority are like these men.

 

I feel that in my life I've often had to deal with much cruelty of men too much.

 

I am considering staying single for life and I'm a very beautiful woman.

 

I do not hate men, yet.... But because of their behaviour I can feel the birth of it which is a shame I think I have a lot to offer a good man.

[Omei]

Have you been online dating the past 4 years? Cos that would explain a lot. It will make you lose hope in human beings. And there's no need to go down that path.

As for blaming the internet, I can see if parents let video games be the baby sitter instead of interacting with their children, then the children grow up with poor social skill, and the internet is certainly a place for people with poor social skills to hide.

I suspect the lack of positive male role models is the source of a lot of relationship problems. Young men are being raised by single mothers, go to school where all the teachers are female, and they reach adulthood knowing nothing about how to treat women! It takes a father to show the son how to be a gentleman.

 

I have done some online dating in the last four years lol and it's as ****ty as they say.

 

Dude I blame the net for a bunch of **** but the number one thing that I despise most is people are rapidly losing communication skills verbally and mentally, I haven't really met anyone my age who didn't have a mouth on them. Everything is so media based now there's no more consequence to hurtful words anymore all over nets you have conversations and people with opinions and they will force their opinion, point of view whatever in a verbally abusive way if they have too I'm finding this is now transferring to real life in social settings. I only seems to find that only a small few my age knows how to actually talk to a fellow individual in a respectful manner this whole fact right here is what makes me lose a lot of hopes for relationships with people my age.

[Omei]

80s and 90s were certainly better... call me old all you want. People had respect, were legitimately interested in you as a person and not only in scoring. Relationships felt real, not this bs that happens today. Guys wanted to be your boyfriend and "fought" for that, treating you well etc.

 

Where has the world gone? I find the dating world today a disgusting, cold place.

 

I almost wish there was no internet and cellphones. And I'm a geek. But it feels like it made relationships banal and not a valued thing anymore :.|

 

Thank you yessss I know it sucks donkey balls

[No_Go]

Yeah, I catch myself over analyzing all the time too

 

Good luck, it is just a matter of time to find your man

 

I'm glad for you yes they are!

I'm sure like me you've become very close to your self respect.

Tbh I think one of my biggest issues is I'm being very picky leaving no room for flaw.

[elaine567]

I think some of the issues encountered may be due to the fact, that the good, straightforward guys get snapped up, and that the proportion of "bad" guys increases as the decades roll on.

The guys who have been hurt, the guys who went through bad divorces, the guys who have been cheated on, the guys who have been stung financially by women, are all out there, and so some of these guys only really want sex, or are closed down, or are commitment-phobic or have a horrible attitude to women in general - the mantra for some I guess is to use and abuse, as they have been used and abused by women in the past.

[Omei]

Yeah, I catch myself over analyzing all the time too

 

Good luck, it is just a matter of time to find your man

 

Idk man it just looks bleak or at least it feels that way I would really like to have another child before I'm too old idk if that will happen I'd have to meet someone within the next 6-7 years wouldn't having at kid at 40 be odd? I don't have to have more children I just hopes it's in the cards for me.

[RedRobin]

 

Rewarding Sh*t behaviour enables it further girls. Remember that.

 

You betcha. There is another thread where just about every woman on there is telling the OP she should give another chance to a guy who suggested, not once, but twice... The netflix and chill date.

 

Like saying 'no' is gonna teach that guy a lesson or make him into a better person, lol. Fat chance.

 

I say, go with the guys who treat you and other women respectfully from day one. Learn to appreciate THAT. Not these other clowns.

 

... And OP... There really are decent guys out there. Do some volunteering. Engage with men and boys in ways that are not dating related. I say 'boys' because I have done volunteer work with children. It teaches you compassion. Even the jerk guys learned it somewhere. Lots of them at a young age.

 

Be the change you want to see. You are not alone.

[GemmaUK]

Ranting is fine and I am with you in your first post but you need to take some responsibility for yourself and cut out right away a guy who eg gets sexual.

 

The way they are is not flirting it's gross comments.

I don't reply at al to any of that. Conversation over, dead and never to resume for me.

 

Even back in the 80s/90s you would not have agreed to meet a guy like that- he is a forgotten in an instant type.

Same for the angries...

 

Do men you know IRL behave like that?

As in to your face?

[No_Go]

It won't be odd, but could be hard to conceive. But you're a mother already so it is probably not a huge issue. And 6-7 years is a loong time. 6-7 months sound like more realistic timeframe to meet someone.

 

Idk man it just looks bleak or at least it feels that way I would really like to have another child before I'm too old idk if that will happen I'd have to meet someone within the next 6-7 years wouldn't having at kid at 40 be odd? I don't have to have more children I just hopes it's in the cards for me.

[preraph]

Omei, I have been of that mindset before myself, and not even because of actual abuse, because I'm intimidating enough to keep those guys away, thank God.

 

There are a lot of bad guys out there. But there are some good ones as well. The most important thing you need to do is find out why you're missing the EARLY red flags and even letting them near you. Security and stalking expert Gavin de Becker says "People who can't say no attract people who won't let go." And that is very true. You have to shut them down and cut them off at the first red flag and not let them linger around.

 

But there may be something in your background that set you up to accept a certain amount of behavior and you need to examine that. As an example, say you have a guy who thinks it's okay to nitpick small things with you. Like maybe the way you drive, nothing huge, so you are inclined to let it go and not make a big thing out of it. Ask yourself, Who else in my life or childhood would nitpick either me or someone else? Then think about that. Because if you grow up around it, it becomes familiar and normal and can even be comforting on some level because you've long since learned to cope with it. So the point is you may let someone like that in whereas another woman might drop him at the side of the road the first snide or critical comment he made. You need to work on being that woman who recognizes these tiny little nitpicky things are only the foot in the door to see what you'll put up with coming from someone who wants to take it much further.

 

Anyone like that stalker, you have to tell them NO very clearly once and then never speak to them again and take action against them at work or school or via the police. You can't let them invest any more time because the more time they invest in stalking you, the harder it is for them to stop because they are delusional and sick.

 

So start doing some looking inward and monitoring everything and trying to throw these guys out at the first sign of disrespect -- and don't make the big mistake young naive girls do and think love fixes anything. It does not. You can't fix them. Loving you won't fix them. You loving them won't fix them. You'll only be enabling them.

 

The only other small piece of advice I'd give is maybe put on your profile not anything negative about men, but maybe that your pet peeve is being disrespected or something mild like that. Then hopefully they won't even contact you. And you can throw that in on a first date as well, as long as it's not done bitterly. "The last guy wasn't respectful. I don't put up with that."

 

Good luck.

[Wewon]

Just wanted to add, I am in the age that was doing most of my dating in the 80s and 90s and that time period doesn't deserve the romanticizing and idealization that it is being given. There were plenty of a-holes back then, they just didn't have the expediency or anonymity of the internet working for them.

 

I think that women are over estimating how responsive they are to gentlemen, courtesy and polite interactions as well as how offended they are by crassness. One of the most disillusioning things that I discovered back then was how much more successful I was with women when I realized how over rated those virtues were. They do make for nice talking points when lamenting dating prospects.

 

None of that gets anyone any closer in the work of understanding why we may respond to objectionable behavior (or at least down play it until its too late). It also doesn't help people to better realize why they find good people so expendable.

[loveflower]

I think some of the issues encountered may be due to the fact, that the good, straightforward guys get snapped up, and that the proportion of "bad" guys increases as the decades roll on.

The guys who have been hurt, the guys who went through bad divorces, the guys who have been cheated on, the guys who have been stung financially by women, are all out there, and so some of these guys only really want sex, or are closed down, or are commitment-phobic or have a horrible attitude to women in general - the mantra for some I guess is to use and abuse, as they have been used and abused by women in the past.

 

wow...such good analysis. need to keep this in mind. I have never used or abused anyone, only refused people. Those men are for me to avoid definitely.

[Robratory]

I feel that I'm now getting to a point where I'm starting to have hatred and bitterness towards men I can feel it inside me growing I wish it wasn't there but with how things have gone its hard not too.

 

Well, it is what it is. If you allow yourself to get bitter, you're hurting no one but yourself. Old, bitter, and lonely is a hell of a way to live.

 

There's no question that some men are pigs, but if in four years of active dating, you've run only into pigs, then you have to wonder where you've been looking. I mean, surely, in a cold sober moment, you must realize that not all men are like that, right? So then how come you run into so many like that?

 

What do you think you need to do to meet a better kind of men?

[Omei]

Well, it is what it is. If you allow yourself to get bitter, you're hurting no one but yourself. Old, bitter, and lonely is a hell of a way to live.

 

There's no question that some men are pigs, but if in four years of active dating, you've run only into pigs, then you have to wonder where you've been looking. I mean, surely, in a cold sober moment, you must realize that not all men are like that, right? So then how come you run into so many like that?

 

What do you think you need to do to meet a better kind of men?

 

Dude I have no clue lol

[Robratory]

Tbh I think one of my biggest issues is I'm being very picky leaving no room for flaw.

 

That is actually the biggest reason women never find anyone. We're all selective to some degree, but I think men are fine with "good enough," while women seek a combination of qualities and attributes that is rarely attainable, and when it is, they discover some bad quality they weren't even looking out for.

 

I know a woman who's 51 and a pear-shaped BBW. I don't fool around (I'm direct, not crude), so by the second date I discovered she wasn't into me. Because I'm still looking and because it turned out she's moving away soon, I made an exception to my policy and agreed to be "just friends" with her (as opposed to saying thank you for a nice date and not seeing her again).

 

So now I get from her story after story about the pigs she's meeting. What's happening is that she gets approached online by all these younger guys with cougar fantasies looking to get their freak on with a fat girl. They have that edgy excitement element she's looking for, but of course they all turn out to be jerks from her perspective. They want to meet and get in the sack. They're not looking for a relationship much less to grow old with her.

 

Yet she has this fantasy that she'll find an edgy guy who also wants to grow old with her. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited February 7, 2016 by Robratory