My growing bitterness for men

[Omei]

 

So I think the point I'm trying to make is that it is not quite as simple as that they want to have sex with you early on, but rather how they go about it, most importantly whether they are respectful of your needs. Since you would rather take it a bit slower, teach yourself to recognize guys that either feel the same (slow) or will respect your desires. In the simplest case, any guy who immediately starts talking about sex, especially before you've even met, does not seem like a good fit for you, they certainly wouldn't be for me. Other subtler clues you will have to work out by, unfortunately, trial and error, because everyone is different.

 

Hang in there and don't let these past experiences get you down or make you bitter.

 

Don't worry I do not think I will be bitter I know everyone is an individual I'm just feeling very bitter towards men at this time, it will pass.

 

I do try my best to find slow moving men because that's what I'm looking for is to create an emotional bond I do try to seek those types out but after a week or so they just can't hold contain their sexual thoughts so if they were a good one I'd have prob been turned off and left many behind not knowing it, I didn't used to be so turned off by some sex chatter but for whatever reason I got to a end point with it. I wanna hear a guy talk about himself so I can know him better not talk about things like that.

[Omei]

Well, I confess I did think you were generalizing, but I accept that you're not. Since you're affected by this issue, why don't you ask those guys? "Why are you disrespectful? Does it work with other girls?"

 

You say "within the first week." Do you and the guy talk about these things on the first couple of dates? Do you establish what each is looking for? By the end of the first date, the guy should know there's not going to be sex in the immediate future.

 

You know that's a really amazing idea, next time it happens I'll truly ask lol

 

Dude it will go something like this.....me and a guy were talking about South Park last week and we were talking about episodes one episode has a song in it called "what what in the butt" and we were laughing and remember that episode then the guy says "have you ever tried anal?" It's **** like that it pisses me off like seriously guys will try to curve the convo to sex at soonest possible opening just because we're talking about a funny song that has butts in it, it has to now be sexualized. It's very annoying. And I get that the lyrics are "what what IN the butt" but still does it really mean because I'm joking about a song that sexual questioners are now on the table nooooo!

[carhill]

An old 'Dear Abby' piece of advice I remember given, whoa, probably back in the 60's, seems to work well when hearing such odd statements or questions as the one about anal.

 

"Why do you want to know?"

 

However, if such a question or statement was intended to facilitate a pounding, asking why didn't really thwart that. Fun times, the 60's were I mean. Still, it might work in diffusing such interactions where there is no violent intent.

[Robratory]

Are you suggesting the OP, and others of us in her situation, act this way? I'm really asking. I am very good at engaging all kinds of people; I love conversation and learning things about people; and I genuinely care about people as a whole. But guys have definitely gotten the wrong idea from my style. One guy said, "I've never been able to have conversations like this with anyone. You always make me feel good because you listen and ask questions." He wanted to date me and I was not at all interested. When I explained where I was coming from, he couldn't piece together how I couldn't be interested in him romantically when I seemed to be interested in things he had to say.

 

But I'm talking in the context of a first face-to-face meeting with someone you met online. And yes, I am suggesting, even recommending, that if you're not interested, you don't act as if you were. I fail to see what's controversial about this.

 

Of course the guy couldn't piece things together. He was interested and showed his interest. You showed interest but were not interested. Why show interest?

 

You'd feel kind of tricked too if someone you found attractive took you out on several dates but never made a move, and when you finally made a move, he acted all surprised. "Oh, I-- uh, no, you must have misunderstood me. I just like you as a friend. I couldn't be interested in you romantically."

 

That doesn't mean being rude. Just limit the conversation to chit-chat, finish your coffee as soon as possible, and say your good-byes. Both sides should leave thinking, "Well, I gave it the old college try, but it's a no-go."

[Omei]

By the end of the first date, the guy should know there's not going to be sex in the immediate future.

 

I disagree unless you're seeking a hookup for the night I do not see why a guy needs to know if there's going to be sex in the immediate future I don't see why sex at this point, a first date should even be in question it's thinking like this that annoys me the guys I speak to claim to have to have interest in seeking long term relationships I feel that a first date should be getting to know each other as people not asking when the sex will come.

 

To me a first date isn't even enough indicator for me to consider if he's the type of man I wanna have sex with yet.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[Robratory]

You know that's a really amazing idea, next time it happens I'll truly ask lol

 

Dude it will go something like this.....me and a guy were talking about South Park last week and we were talking about episodes one episode has a song in it called "what what in the butt" and we were laughing and remember that episode then the guy says "have you ever tried anal?" It's **** like that it pisses me off like seriously guys will try to curve the convo to sex at soonest possible opening just because we're talking about a funny song that has butts in it, it has to now be sexualized. It's very annoying. And I get that the lyrics are "what what IN the butt" but still does it really mean because I'm joking about a song that sexual questioners are now on the table nooooo!

 

Great! Put them on the spot!

 

In that South Park incident, one reaction would have been to put a serious face on and ask, "Why would you ask me something like that? It's rude. Why would you think I'd tell you about my intimate life after two dates?"

 

In the old black and white movies, women slapped guys when they got fresh. The least women can do today is embarrass them.

[Robratory]

By the end of the first date, the guy should know there's not going to be sex in the immediate future.

I disagree unless you're seeking a hookup for the night I do not see why a guy needs to know if there's going to be sex in the immediate future I don't see why sex at this point, a first date should even be in question it's thinking like this that annoys me the guys I speak to claim to have to have interest in seeking long term relationships

 

Well, but now you're being kind of unrealistic. Time was when decorum kept guys in line. A gentleman did not mention sex on a first date. It just wasn't done. But that same system was oppressive to women (and men too, if you think about it), and so the Sexual Revolution toppled it.

 

Today, we live in society that is much more frank and open about sex. You turn the TV on in the middle of the day, and people on talk shows are talking about anal sex. It's not really true, but according to the media, everyone is having sex non-stop. That influences how people act, leading many men to think nothing about proposing sex on a first meeting.

 

If you don't want that, that's fine, and I'm saying you should weed out those who do want that by establishing what you want as early as possible. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is that way.

[Robratory]

I lived through the 90s as well and there wasn't this deep hostility between the genders that there is now. Sure men were nicer but women also didn't go around saying she was drinking male tears whenever a man showed any hint of vulnerability. The genders didn't seem to look at each other as the enemy back then which of course makes it a much better environment for love and affection to flourish.

 

I really don't think things are different today. A movie called "The Battle of the Sexes" came out in 2013. Another movie, also called "The Battle of the Sexes," came out in 1959.

 

The only thing I think is different today is that our global communications network lets bitter people find each other, giving them an exaggerated sense of how much bitterness there is. Love and affection continue to flourish.

[Omei]

Well, but now you're being kind of unrealistic. Time was when decorum kept guys in line. A gentleman did not mention sex on a first date. It just wasn't done. But that same system was oppressive to women (and men too, if you think about it), and so the Sexual Revolution toppled it.

 

Today, we live in society that is much more frank and open about sex. You turn the TV on in the middle of the day, and people on talk shows are talking about anal sex. It's not really true, but according to the media, everyone is having sex non-stop. That influences how people act, leading many men to think nothing about proposing sex on a first meeting.

 

If you don't want that, that's fine, and I'm saying you should weed out those who do want that by establishing what you want as early as possible. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is that way.

 

I really don't feel I'm being unrealistic guys just need to stop being pigs? A man doesn't need to know if he's gonna have sex soon after the first date if he needs that then he should be seeking hookups and not potential long term commitments, because most woman who are wanting something long term are not going to be opening their legs anytime soon because they want to be respected and viewed as relationship potential and vice versa for men too it go's both ways if a man is putting out or offering sex immediately chances are the woman may sleep with him but likely not consider for a relationship.

 

I don't feel it matters what type of day in age were in it doesn't make it acceptable this is exactly the type of sexual entitlement im speaking of... this right here.

 

If it's been toppled and it is now acceptable and needed to know as soonest possible then I guess I'm old school and I'll be waiting of that gentlemen for as long as it takes then.

 

If a guy needs to know if he is going to be receiving sex soon on the first few dates he IMO should just go have some casual sex and not waste relationship seekers time.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[WaitingForBardot]

...

By the end of the first date, the guy should know there's not going to be sex in the immediate future.

I don't agree with this. There is no reason to know anything about the possibility of sex until you've started to get physical beyond normal hugging and kissing. Once hands start to go on to the naughty bits, then the boundaries need to be set and clear.

 

The only exception to this would be if you were intersex or transexual or ??. In that case I think it becomes a personal safety issue because many men are just not capable of handling it (pun only sort of intended) and may react very poorly.

[mike_89]

I really don't feel I'm being unrealistic guys just need to stop being pigs? A man doesn't need to know if he's gonna have sex soon after the first date if he needs that then he should be seeking hookups and not potential long term commitments, because most woman who are wanting something long term are not going to be opening their legs anytime soon because they want to be respected and viewed as relationship potential and vice versa for men too it go's both ways if a man is putting out or offering sex immediately chances are the woman may sleep with him but likely not consider for a relationship.

 

I don't feel it matters what type of day in age were in it doesn't make it acceptable this is exactly the type of sexual entitlement im speaking of... this right here.

 

If it's been toppled and it is now acceptable and needed to know as soonest possible then I guess I'm old school and I'll be waiting of that gentlemen for as long as it takes then.

If all guys you date want sex very quickly and only want sex, then you are attracting and dating the wrong guys or you're sending the wrong messages. It's just that simple. Sure you can refuse to take any responsibility, it's way easier to generalize half the world population and to play the victim than to look at what you might be doing wrong. How are you dressing? How are you behaving yourself? You can't go around wearing tight tops and short skirts and then expect guys to not think you want to get laid. The more conservative guys that don't want to have sex with you will view this as easy and find that way of dressing unattractive or even gaudy. The way you behave also has a very strong impact. If you're acting touchy touchy from the first second in the date it sends a powerful message. Or maybe you're just acting bitter or have a bitter outlook and you're thereby scaring off all guys that are socially savvy (because they pick up on it) and the only guys that end up being near you are those that are not socially savvy and can't take a hint.

To put it more plainly: if other women can meet decent guys who do want something more serious, then you can too.

[Omei]

If all guys you date want sex very quickly and only want sex, then you are attracting and dating the wrong guys or you're sending the wrong messages. It's just that simple. Sure you can refuse to take any responsibility, it's way easier to generalize half the world population and to play the victim than to look at what you might be doing wrong. How are you dressing? How are you behaving yourself? You can't go around wearing tight tops and short skirts and then expect guys to not think you want to get laid. The more conservative guys that don't want to have sex with you will view this as easy and find that way of dressing unattractive or even gaudy. The way you behave also has a very strong impact. If you're acting touchy touchy from the first second in the date it sends a powerful message. Or maybe you're just acting bitter or have a bitter outlook and you're thereby scaring off all guys that are socially savvy (because they pick up on it) and the only guys that end up being near you are those that are not socially savvy and can't take a hint.

To put it more plainly: if other women can meet decent guys who do want something more serious, then you can too.

 

Usually I wear jeans, boots, tops(don't really show any cleavage) and a leather jacket usually.

 

I don't know what kind of signals I'd be sending, I don't bring up sex, I don't really flirt all too much maybe a little like "you have nice eyes" I don't really text too much just enough to keep in contact and show I'm interested if I am, no I'm not really touchy or overly gushy I don't really go off and say things like "I think we have a connection"

 

I just converse really bout general or interesting topics and if I like a guy I'll say something like I like you so far let's meet up again.

 

One if the reasons my frustrations are there is because I'm very drawn back and non sexualized to be getting the type of comments I do.

[Buddhist]

Well I'm sure that's true for a short while but the reality of getting no responses will very quickly adjust their sights. I'm sure they still message the hot women but I bet they don't ignore the average looking women like they ignore the average looking men. Because the hit men try to use the average women for a quick hook up they have the idea that the next hot guy round the corner will be their soulmate.

 

And what evidence do you have to support this? Absolutely none. You're 'sure' of it because that's what you want to believe. Desperado's comes in all shapes and sizes and both genders too. The crap doesn't smell of roses just because it's male.

[Omei]

This is pretty much my style of dress code

 

https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/sonsofanarchy/images/e/ec/Geema_in_Belfast.jpg/revision/latest%3Fcb%3D20101120031105&imgrefurl=http://sonsofanarchy.wikia.com/wiki/Gemma_Teller_Morrow&h=400&w=266&tbnid=bsB3aKbC7bVT3M:&tbnh=186&tbnw=123&docid=Q_7dxXAhRnGpaM&itg=1&usg=__2J8BNBtJmLXkIo2sF-m-co9mJc4=

 

minus the cleavage I do wear them sometimes but rarely and never on first dates, and they def don't go as low as this one in the picture

 

I live in a winter wonderland.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Heh. Well, if true, that should pretty much wrap this thread up.

A BBW with a daughter doesn't have the same right to feel whatever she feels as any other type of person?? Why?

[fenix]

I really don't feel I'm being unrealistic guys just need to stop being pigs? A man doesn't need to know if he's gonna have sex soon after the first date if he needs that then he should be seeking hookups and not potential long term commitments, because most woman who are wanting something long term are not going to be opening their legs anytime soon because they want to be respected and viewed as relationship potential and vice versa for men too it go's both ways if a man is putting out or offering sex immediately chances are the woman may sleep with him but likely not consider for a relationship.

 

I don't feel it matters what type of day in age were in it doesn't make it acceptable this is exactly the type of sexual entitlement im speaking of... this right here.

 

If it's been toppled and it is now acceptable and needed to know as soonest possible then I guess I'm old school and I'll be waiting of that gentlemen for as long as it takes then.

 

If a guy needs to know if he is going to be receiving sex soon on the first few dates he IMO should just go have some casual sex and not waste relationship seekers time.

 

That is exactly the thing, you should wait till the right guy comes your way.

 

By the way, calling men pigs will not bring you any close to have a perfect relationship.

 

You speak about entitlement when men have sex expectatoins from a date but the fact is that you have the same entitlement feeling but with relationship. You feel entitled to get a relationship from a guy who is dating you but you feel that the guy may not feel entitled to have sex?

 

By the way, I am married and not looking for a relationship, but if I was looking for a relationship and I would find that a woman is witholding with sex just to show me how much relationship material she is when she has a story of giving it away in the first date to other guys I would run like her from that woman!!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Yep. Current fake profile. Shelf-stacker at a supermarket. No ambition or motivation (because women love that in a guy right?). Really hot photos.

 

Guess how popular he is?

 

Yep. Can't keep them off him. Professional, really smart women. Their profiles are looking for similar, intelligent, funny, ambitious blah blah blah. They all want the tall, hot guy who couldn't give a crap.

 

That's how it really is.

maybe they just want to have fun casual sex with him and are waiting for the intelligent ambitious guy for a serious relationship?

 

Of course, if the serious relationship is supposed to include sex the people would need to feel sexually attracted to one another. The way a person looks is often a part of that.

[Omei]

A BBW with a daughter doesn't have the same right to feel whatever she feels as any other type of person?? Why?

 

Can you not call me a bbw please I'm not even two hundred pounds, gosh !

 

That label makes me feel hugggggeeee and I'm not obese

 

I'm a little overweight but common and no don't ask me by how much

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[Woggle]

I really don't think things are different today. A movie called "The Battle of the Sexes" came out in 2013. Another movie, also called "The Battle of the Sexes," came out in 1959.

 

The only thing I think is different today is that our global communications network lets bitter people find each other, giving them an exaggerated sense of how much bitterness there is. Love and affection continue to flourish.

 

I know that in my circle back then there was a lot less bitterness and polarization between the sexes. Sure there was casual sex and all that stuff but it wasn't a contest to see who can care less. What we have today is sexual warfare and both sides feel that if they give in and stop trying to get one over on the other then they will be a victim. Most people I know who play do so because they don't want to played themselves. If we really want to see the crap show that is modern relationships change men and women are going to have meet each other halfway and so far I have seen no willingness at all for people to do that.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I recall talking to a male friend of mine. There was this single mother at church that needed help moving. A few people, both non-church (co-workers) and church members showed up to help. It was a mix of men and women, so it wasn't a bunch of love lorned men trying to help her in hopes of a date. lol

 

He just shook his head, as if it was a man that needed help moving, people figured he doesn't need the help so he would get no volunteers.

 

1) this one guy you talked to who told you a woman got a lot of offers to help her move - so what.

 

She is a single mother. With a little kid it's hard to move house. It is a CHURCH. People at church are community minded and Christianity tells us to help people who need help.

 

2) Guys may be less willing to acknowledge that they need help with physical things like moving, since they might think it's unmanly. I don't know, but I would be willing to bet that if a guy reached out in his church about needing help moving, help would be forthcoming.

 

In real life that is just a bogus generalization. We just helped my brother and his family move recently. When my fiance moved in with me a bunch of his buddies helped him. I don't know ANY guy who has ever moved without his friends or family stepping up to help.

 

Tales like this, used (inappropriately) as examples of how unfair the world is towards one gender or the other, are just adding fuel to the fire.

[Rejected Rosebud]

A lot of decent guys have seen how many women will forgo all self respect and allow a hot, charming guy treat them like crap. I know I've seen it, and I'm sure plenty of guys here have too. That does not motivate guys to respect women, and treat them well. It makes guys resent women, and want to treat them poorly.

Why do you let having seen that make you disrespect women?

 

Women are not the only ones susceptible to charm and sex appeal used by messed up people. How many of you guys on here have been enchanted by a "hot mess" and gotten messed up yourselves on account of it? I think it's pretty common for men and women alike to be vulnerable to that kind of thing.

 

Why would it make you lose respect for a whole gender or even for that ONE person for that matter? They're just human, showing a weakness.

[WaitingForBardot]

Can you not call me a bbw please I'm not even two hundred pounds, gosh !

 

That label makes me feel hugggggeeee and I'm not obese

 

I'm a little overweight but common and no don't ask me by how much

I didn't read that as being about you at all, rather as a general statement. And I agree with the general statement...

[Rejected Rosebud]

Yep. Huge double standard. BBW is universal but I don't see SBM (short beautiful man) or SBCHM (short bald chubby handsome man).

 

That is because historically women are valued for our looks. Read LoveShack. There are hundreds of times that a guy will say "biologically a man is wired to like a certain hip to waist ratio and youth." Case closed.

 

Men have NOT historically been valued mainly for their looks.

 

Currently there is a movement (started with feminism - sorry guys for saying the hated word!! ) that women should be valued just as much for other qualities, like men have traditionally been.

[BlueIris]

OP, There are wonderful men in the world, many of them. You just haven’t been dating them or finding them lately. Maybe don't date for a year or two so you can clear the screen and reset. The decision to take a sabbatical can feel like a huge weight has been lifted and it might help in not becoming resentful.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Posts like this are exactly the point. Avoid any reflection and blame the other gender.

 

That is really unfair. I blame "the other gender" for NOTHING. I love men as much as I love women, I don't think that a man is more likely to be an ass than a woman is, OR more likely to be awesome.

 

I was just sharing my perspective.

 

Feel free to not have relationships with any women you haven't already had sex with, totally your own choice, but note that it's not socially acceptable, still, for women to have sex outside of relationships (i.e. the persistence of "s*** shaming around here and elsewhere). Tons of LS guys, and some of them on this thread, are adamant that they WILL NOT have a relationship with any woman who has had casual sex. Obviously you are fine with women who have casual sex, since one has to have casual sex with you in order to be considered "relationship material."

 

All the dating wisdom for women advises us NOT to have casual sex if we are seriously looking for a relationship.

 

There is quite a divide there. But anyway I am happy that you are accepting of girls with "high numbers."