My growing bitterness for men

[fenix]

I miss how it used to be with men it doesn't seem like it's this way anymore in the past a man would court you he would date you he wouldn't ask sexual things of you or even probe it for general discussion he would keep his mouth shut till you were his and ready. He would call and listen you would grow a bond and THEN finally after some time would sex come.

 

All the men now seem to just want quick relationships with fast sexual outcomes like sex expectations within the first two weeks.

 

No man seems to want to make a girl feel loved and cherished without expecting anything in immediate return these days.

 

I wanna go back to the 80's/90's sighhhhh were we still had young men giving a damn.

 

 

I wonder what has made men to change so much since the earlier days to how it is now... maybe women's behavior towards sex?

[LookAtThisPOst]

I personally want to see women express their perspective of dating, both good and bad. And I don't think that I'm alone on this, this is a good opportunity to get insight and perspectives that one wouldn't get otherwise in a consolidated place.

 

Some of the brussling that women see is from the inconsistencies. When I first came to LS there was a thread that asked women what they bring to the table. At first I thought it sounded hostile in nature, then I started seeing what may have prompted it. Most women are pretty unapologetic when it comes to expressing an expectation in men, from expecting him to approach, plan, pay, style of dress, his conversation style even to whether he be circumcised or not. And these are strong, uncompromising opinions with no room for error. But let a guy express ANY preference in women and he will be hit with the buzzword of the day, lately its been 'entitled'. The fact is, there seems to be something offensive about a man that expects anything from a SO other than she doesn't come at him with a chainsaw.

 

In the case of this thread, there seems to be an annoyance when any questions her part in her past relationships and the men that she chose. That falls under 'victim blaming'. So instead of examining how women may have contributed to the current nature of dating the preferred approach is to sit on a park bench and ponder the perfection of the good old days. And even then, we're not supposed to look at how both genders are feeding off each other and changing things (current sexual morays for example) The only acceptable answer is to ponder men in a vacuum.

 

So what you're left with is two groups. One that can't be scrutinized at all and the other than gets scrutinized situationally. Its particularly odd when you see two live threads with the same people in it contradicting themselves. (I kid you not) One thread had a guy being berated for being skeptical on starting a relationship as friends first, because his intentions may have been impure followed by a second thread where a guy was berated for trying to start a relationship as friends first, again, because his intentions were impure.

 

I don't think that men are annoyed with what women expect, but more that women don't want to see the part that they play in things, much like what is seen in the OP.

 

Right, there has always been a double standard when comes to expressing these gendered view points.

 

I recall talking to a male friend of mine. There was this single mother at church that needed help moving. A few people, both non-church (co-workers) and church members showed up to help. It was a mix of men and women, so it wasn't a bunch of love lorned men trying to help her in hopes of a date. lol

 

He just shook his head, as if it was a man that needed help moving, people figured he doesn't need the help so he would get no volunteers.

 

Apparently this was an experience he's had before.

 

That's just an example, but its apparent that men should "suck it up" and deal with it, but tell a woman to "suck it up" then they come at you, like you said, with a chainsaw.

[LoveRefreshed]

Hate to see it, yet not surprised, to see this thread devolve and digress to another gender war about the expectations of the other. That's not the issue.

 

The real issue is that people do, from both genders, get worn down from poor experiences with people from the opposite sex. In general, as my buddy once said, "Detroit has made me racist", it's easy to let your every day interactions give you a platform to judge others on. It's much easier to look out upon the crowd than back at yourself.

 

You know the difference between me at 20 and me at 30 is? I don't know, but me at 30 all of a sudden has to pick from a list of available women instead of me trying so hard and getting shot down by every single one.

 

The men you all want are the ones you all turned down at 20. We're the ones who focused on school, careers, and ourselves and got shot down for being boring, nice, and 'not unattractive, just not attractive to me".

 

I didn't let myself get bitter at every single woman for it. As women get older, and they wise up, they think they deserve the nice 30 year old man. However, you reap what you sow. Don't be bitter at the result of your choices. Realize that you've got work to do to EARN that awesome 30 year old nice guy. Just because you were hot once and had your pick of men doesn't mean you've earned a good one. Just like none of us men are owed sex for being nice, none of you women are owed a good man.

Edited February 8, 2016 by LoveRefreshed

[LoveRefreshed]

I know that many men feel just as disillusioned with women as the OP does with men, but being a woman naturally I experience that side of things myself.

 

Never until I came to LoveShack had I heard of PUA. What an ugly thing. Luckily that seems to have died down but then I was SHOCKED (no kidding) to read on here that a whole bunch of men think that they need to have sex with a woman BEFORE "deciding' whether or not to have a relationship with her. Like it's a one sided thing and they are ENTITLED to a "test drive." Lots of guys on here chimed in to agree with that.

 

We all have the right to want what we want in a partner and have our own expectations and way of doing things. I'm not entitled to have sex with a woman ever, but a woman also isn't entitled to a relationship with me. I'm not entering a monogamous committed relationship until I have sex with a woman. It's my choice, I'm not running around raping women. They have a choice in the matter too.

 

I have never even heard of that in real life. Sure people have sex with each other like after drinking at a party and end up bonding and in a relationship but I had no clue that pre-relationship sex is now a REQUIREMENT for a lot of guys!!

 

omga. A girl who pleases me in bed is a ridiculous requirement, but being taller than you while you are wearing 3" heels is so much more rational.

 

And the way men "s*** shaming" and "fat shaming" women is somehow socially acceptable. And how women are derided for being "shallow" for choosing to date guys they are attracted to rather than give any guy a chance because the guy considers himself to be "nice." Sheesh.

 

Nice guy shaming has been around for decades. Calling nice caring men as effeminate and beta. The disdain for short dudes or bald dudes makes total sense but that weight/health factor is completely unreasonable. Who wants a healthy partner?

 

Guys, I understand that you have your own complaints about women (in general) and I am not minimizing them, just talking about some of the ones that stand out about guys, to me. Luckily mostly just on LoveShack and elsewhere on the Internet. I have a guy who is as horrified as I am by that kind of thing. And other men in my life like friends, brother, dad who would NEVER.

 

Sounds like you don't really know your brother and father.

 

I am just very grateful that I don't need to be trying to date in this climate. My heart goes out to the sincere guys and girls that are braving it.

 

Posts like this are exactly the point. Avoid any reflection and blame the other gender.

[Omei]

OP I haven't too much too of your stuff, but if I understand correctly, you're a BBW with a daughter looking for tall thin men with no kids.

 

Well........

 

I have a few pounds overweight yes and yes a daughter but I have an amazing personality and in no way am I grossly obese I prob wouldn't even consider myself a full fledged bbw I think I'd have to put on more pounds to make that cut I haven't hit 200 pounds yet.

 

But I wanted to respond you saying because I don't have a perfect body and a child I shouldn't expect to find someone is extremely rude and shallow.

 

And I'm not looking for just thin tall men with no kids, I'm open to many body types and situations.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[Omei]

Omei,

Please take my comments in the spirit with which they were meant, as I am trying to be helpful here;

 

 

Ever heard the old adage about the definition of "stupidity"? It's doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

 

 

First I think you should "take yourself off the market" temporarily.

 

 

May I suggest you do some work on yourself? Find out why you put up with abusive relationships for so long. Find out what it is you really want for yourself. Is it healthy? If not, modify your viewpoint.

 

 

I would suggest you buy and read this book ; "It's just a date!" by Greg Behrendt & Amiira Ruotola-Behrendt.

 

 

HTH

 

Sorry but I don't need to re-work and re-do issues of my past.

 

I am dating now and going to remain on market because I'm ready I've done that whole years of solo and self discovery time for the next step...

[Omei]

Wow what, how is that shaming? I don't get it.

 

We used to have a dude on here everyday crying cause he couldn't pull a big breasted hottie 10 years younger than him. Everyone told him, he was shooting out of his league.

 

If you don't see it, I feel bad for you, I can only hope someone body shames you back and see how you're feeling after.

 

Nothing like a stranger who doesn't know you or has even seen you telling you your fat the morning thanks for that, you may think your comments were needed but all they did was hurt my feelings, your comments are no longer wanted thanks.

[Omei]

I just wanna say I hope some of the men on here don't think my Post applies to all, I am not intending to generalize a gender. But it does seem like a lot of men in my age bracket don't know how to respectfully speak to a woman so dating has been difficult, because I turn most away, most bring up sex within the first week of speaking and if they are the type of good man I'm looking for like someone else said they shoot themselves in the foot with their over eagerness of sex so if he was a relationship seeking man it would be hard to know that through his horniness.

 

And I know a lot of people are saying work on yourself etc and I'm shutting those down because I've worked on myself, I've already overcome my past years ago, I've also spent many years working on myself single, were always changing and always working on one's self, I'm still working on myself....but at some point you have to get out there and that time for me is now...there isn't ever going to be a level bar where I hit 100 and become a perfect person who never makes a mistake in a relationship or life.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[Aniela]

Wow what, how is that shaming? I don't get it.

 

We used to have a dude on here everyday crying cause he couldn't pull a big breasted hottie 10 years younger than him. Everyone told him, he was shooting out of his league.

 

I remember them also being happy when he got a girlfriend, and cheering him on. Encouraging him to do things that might help him to get another girlfriend - just not to focus on the ones that obviously weren't into him. Trying to talk him out of things that would make him look bad.

 

I think the one thing that didn't help his cause, was his insulting women over a certain age. The constant worship of the young - too young, really.

 

Anyway, he isn't here, so I won't talk about him anymore.

[Aniela]

Posts like this are exactly the point. Avoid any reflection and blame the other gender.

 

Were those your quotes in the whole post, somehow embedded in a quote?

That "sounds like you don't know your brother and father" is extremely insulting. I would think she knows them a lot better than you do.

 

I certainly know mine better than you do. My non-bitter, short (5 foot 6) dad, who has been married since the age of 21. Who was shy, and sweet, and a gentleman - still is - and still managed to marry the woman of his dreams.

[fenix]

Were those your quotes in the whole post, somehow embedded in a quote?

That "sounds like you don't know your brother and father" is extremely insulting. I would think she knows them a lot better than you do.

 

I certainly know mine better than you do. My non-bitter, short (5 foot 6) dad, who has been married since the age of 21. Who was shy, and sweet, and a gentleman - still is - and still managed to marry the woman of his dreams.

 

And that is the point Aniela, how many chances would have your non bitter father to score the woman of his dreams now?

 

I also find extremely insulting to say to someone that you know better their relatives but I guess what he meant is that he knows men nature better than she does and while she may know the personality of her father and brother much better than we do, we do understand men needs and desires better than any woman does (including relatives) just for the mere fact that we are men too.

Edited February 8, 2016 by fenix

[Omei]

I decided to put up my photo as you can see nor am I fat or ugly lol so we can rule that out now, if you don't agree that's fine I don't expect to be attractive to all,I don't have much issues getting a guys attention my main issue is that when I do the sex talk is a huge issues and for whatever reason I meet what seems to be really nice guys who turn ugly and it always seems to be later on down the road, if I can't make it out or I've said something they don't agree with.

 

Most of the guys I date or 30 and under. I've never been with an olde man I'm considering it.

 

I think I'm a fair decent looking young lady

Edited February 8, 2016 by Omei

[Aniela]

And that is the point Aniela, how many chances would have your non bitter father to score the woman of his dreams now?

 

I also find extremely insulting to say to someone that you know better their relatives but I guess what he meant is that he knows men nature better than she does and while she may know the personality of her father and brother much better than we do, we do understand men needs and desires better than any woman does (including relatives) just for the mere fact that we are men too.

 

He is who he is. I'm sure he'd do fine. And he wasn't looking to "score". He was seriously attracted to my mother, he asked her out, she accepted, and that was it. He's been in love with her ever since. Of course, he also loved her legs, and she still thinks he has a great butt. But there's more to it than scoring.

 

She has made sure to tell him that he's a good man. He's responsible, and good-natured, and he's the best man I know. So I just don't attribute that nature to him, because he's never displayed it.

[Arieswoman]

Omei post #108,

 

 

"Sorry but I don't need to re-work and re-do issues of my past.

 

I am dating now and going to remain on market because I'm ready I've done that whole years of solo and self discovery time for the next step... "

 

 

OK, fine, just trying to be helpful - but please at least read the book I recommended....

• 
  

[fenix]

He is who he is. I'm sure he'd do fine. And he wasn't looking to "score". He was seriously attracted to my mother, he asked her out, she accepted, and that was it. He's been in love with her ever since. Of course, he also loved her legs, and she still thinks he has a great butt. But there's more to it than scoring.

 

She has made sure to tell him that he's a good man. He's responsible, and good-natured, and he's the best man I know. So I just don't attribute that nature to him, because he's never displayed it.

 

I think you are fairly unrealistic. Ask any average short or bald guy which are their chances in the field as it is now and you will see the answer. I would like to say that your father doesn't need to be a bad person to have normal men instincts (they are in our genetic code) and it is obvious he would never display those instincts in-front of her daughter.

I don't doubt your father is good-natured and a great man but I doubt he would not have the same drives hardcoded in our DNA.

What I try to say is that you can not compare the behavior of someone with the age of your father in the times he met your mother with the situation we have today's day ... as I am certain that your behavior in the dating field doesn't correspond to the one your mother had back then. Maybe I am wrong but then again if your behavior match the old ways your are the exception that confirms the rule.

[Aniela]

I was going to add something, but I might take it to another thread. I feel like it's thread-jacking.

 

Omei, you are so pretty. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt this morning.

[LoveRefreshed]

He is who he is. I'm sure he'd do fine. And he wasn't looking to "score". He was seriously attracted to my mother, he asked her out, she accepted, and that was it. He's been in love with her ever since. Of course, he also loved her legs, and she still thinks he has a great butt. But there's more to it than scoring.

 

She has made sure to tell him that he's a good man. He's responsible, and good-natured, and he's the best man I know. So I just don't attribute that nature to him, because he's never displayed it.

 

Frankly, you do not know what it's like to be a man from the age of 18-30. In his day and age, women respected hard work and a man who could get a job. In this day and age, women respect that a poor college boy can have perfect facial hair.

 

My response to the quote were the bolded paragraphs in the quote, yes. It's not hard to do. See below.

 

Oh, I see how you are right LR.

[Omei]

I was going to add something, but I might take it to another thread. I feel like it's thread-jacking.

 

Omei, you are so pretty. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt this morning.

 

Thanks, like every girl any girl, big or small, you tell a girl she's fat her feelings will be hurt, guys do nottttttt do this lol never do this not even online.

[SwordofFlame]

Frankly, you do not know what it's like to be a man from the age of 18-30. In his day and age, women respected hard work and a man who could get a job. In this day and age, women respect that a poor college boy can have perfect facial hair.

 

My response to the quote were the bolded paragraphs in the quote, yes. It's not hard to do. See below.

 

That's because a lot of women can support themselves financially now. Which is a good thing. Women dating physically attractive deadbeat men really isn't much different than men dating hot women who also don't earn much.

[LoveRefreshed]

Thanks, like every girl any girl, big or small, you tell a girl she's fat her feelings will be hurt, guys do nottttttt do this lol never do this not even online.

 

LS's advice from women; first few dates:

1. Don't tell her she's fat.

2. Don't tell her she's attractive.

3. Don't tell her you want to have sex with her.

4. Don't tell her you love her.

5. Do offer to pay*

6. Do make it clear your interested in her (see 1-4)

7. Do not make physical advances

8. Do be a man and take what you want and have confidence to go in for a kiss (of course, be careful of 7 while doing so)

 

 

*Note: If she accepts, that means she's into you (but don't ever assume that, because you offered, she may just be trying to enjoy your company too, not coming for a free dinner). If she offers to pay half, that means she probably wasn't into you (Or she's a super duper independent woman who doesn't need a man to pay for her, nor does she live by the social norms of our society). Please also keep in mind that you have to figure out which one she is.

 

 

How am I doing? Have I been paying attention to enough threads?

[SwordofFlame]

LS's advice from women; first few dates:

1. Don't tell her she's fat.

2. Don't tell her she's attractive.

3. Don't tell her you want to have sex with her.

4. Don't tell her you love her.

5. Do offer to pay*

6. Do make it clear your interested in her (see 1-4)

7. Do not make physical advances

8. Do be a man and take what you want and have confidence to go in for a kiss (of course, be careful of 7 while doing so)

 

 

*Note: If she accepts, that means she's into you (but don't ever assume that, because you offered, she may just be trying to enjoy your company too, not coming for a free dinner). If she offers to pay half, that means she probably wasn't into you (Or she's a super duper independent woman who doesn't need a man to pay for her, nor does she live by the social norms of our society). Please also keep in mind that you have to figure out which one she is.

 

 

How am I doing? Have I been paying attention to enough threads?

9. Be sure to text her every day in between dates. But not every minute.

[LoveRefreshed]

That's because a lot of women can support themselves financially now. Which is a good thing. Women dating physically attractive deadbeat men really isn't much different than men dating hot women who also don't earn much.

 

 

Ha, that may be true! However the point was, there was a time when women cared about the substance of a man even while they were 20. Not just how well he'll pair up with you in your instagram/fb selfies.

[Omei]

LS's advice from women; first few dates:

1. Don't tell her she's fat.

2. Don't tell her she's attractive.

3. Don't tell her you want to have sex with her.

4. Don't tell her you love her.

5. Do offer to pay*

6. Do make it clear your interested in her (see 1-4)

7. Do not make physical advances

8. Do be a man and take what you want and have confidence to go in for a kiss (of course, be careful of 7 while doing so)

 

 

*Note: If she accepts, that means she's into you (but don't ever assume that, because you offered, she may just be trying to enjoy your company too, not coming for a free dinner). If she offers to pay half, that means she probably wasn't into you (Or she's a super duper independent woman who doesn't need a man to pay for her, nor does she live by the social norms of our society). Please also keep in mind that you have to figure out which one she is.

 

 

How am I doing? Have I been paying attention to enough threads?

 

I'd say scratch 2, and make it a do there's nothing wrong with that.

[WaitingForBardot]

I decided to put up my photo as you can see nor am I fat or ugly lol so we can rule that out now, if you don't agree that's fine I don't expect to be attractive to all,I don't have much issues getting a guys attention my main issue is that when I do the sex talk is a huge issues and for whatever reason I meet what seems to be really nice guys who turn ugly and it always seems to be later on down the road, if I can't make it out or I've said something they don't agree with.

 

Most of the guys I date or 30 and under. I've never been with an olde man I'm considering it.

 

I think I'm a fair decent looking young lady

I'm one man, much older, and an American with essentially no experience with Canadian women or men, so please take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt...

 

First, for whatever reason, I'm just not into having sex with women I don't think would make good long-term partners for me. However, when I desire a woman, and think she has long-term potential, I want to have sex with her, from day one, and it's typically pretty obvious. Not by being crude about it or asking about it or being physically insistent about it, and certainly not before we've even met in person, but it is pretty obvious. Having sex with someone I think I will fall in love with is how I get to know them. For better or worse, that's just how I am.

 

The majority of my LTRs began with sex on the first day of meeting and most of the time these were not even proper dates. My now wife though was not one of them. She needed to wait and I respected that because I liked her and saw real possibilities for us. I did try to escalate each time it seemed right, but always immediately respected her feelings when she felt it wasn't the moment for her. It was always clear though that she was very interested in me, just not in sex right then, right there.

 

So I think the point I'm trying to make is that it is not quite as simple as that they want to have sex with you early on, but rather how they go about it, most importantly whether they are respectful of your needs. Since you would rather take it a bit slower, teach yourself to recognize guys that either feel the same (slow) or will respect your desires. In the simplest case, any guy who immediately starts talking about sex, especially before you've even met, does not seem like a good fit for you, they certainly wouldn't be for me. Other subtler clues you will have to work out by, unfortunately, trial and error, because everyone is different.

 

Hang in there and don't let these past experiences get you down or make you bitter.

[Robratory]

I just wanna say I hope some of the men on here don't think my Post applies to all, I am not intending to generalize a gender. But it does seem like a lot of men in my age bracket don't know how to respectfully speak to a woman so dating has been difficult, because I turn most away, most bring up sex within the first week of speaking and if they are the type of good man I'm looking for like someone else said they shoot themselves in the foot with their over eagerness of sex so if he was a relationship seeking man it would be hard to know that through his horniness.

 

Well, I confess I did think you were generalizing, but I accept that you're not. Since you're affected by this issue, why don't you ask those guys? "Why are you disrespectful? Does it work with other girls?"

 

You say "within the first week." Do you and the guy talk about these things on the first couple of dates? Do you establish what each is looking for? By the end of the first date, the guy should know there's not going to be sex in the immediate future.