My wife had an affair [updated]

[M1ke12]

One last thought for tonight. I wonder what would happen if I asked her to register, read this thread AND comment.

 

If she saw some of the advice I'm getting would she wake up?

[OldRover]

One last thought for tonight. I wonder what would happen if I asked her to register, read this thread AND comment.

 

If she saw some of the advice I'm getting would she wake up?

 

M1ke12,

 

Who knows, worth a try.

 

Right now, I'm borderline on worrying more for your daughter. She will grow out of this (likely), but the road there has some HUGE dangers. She seriously needs help, now. She's a walking time bomb. She doesn't have a drinking or drug problem, does she? (Hope not).

 

But you need some program (full time) that deals with her problems. She needs love and help, hope you can help her with that.

 

You have your hands full and I feel sorry for you. But it is solvable, with work. I would lean on first getting your wife into a full time alcohol program... perhaps a 24/7 one, if you can afford it. One that is private and deals with mental and life changes and not one that beats her down. There's lots of good ones out there.

[M1ke12]

M1ke12,

 

Who knows, worth a try.

 

Right now, I'm borderline on worrying more for your daughter. She will grow out of this (likely), but the road there has some HUGE dangers. She seriously needs help, now. She's a walking time bomb. She doesn't have a drinking or drug problem, does she? (Hope not).

 

But you need some program (full time) that deals with her problems. She needs love and help, hope you can help her with that.

 

You have your hands full and I feel sorry for you. But it is solvable, with work. I would lean on first getting your wife into a full time alcohol program... perhaps a 24/7 one, if you can afford it. One that is private and deals with mental and life changes and not one that beats her down. There's lots of good ones out there.

I think you know what I'm going to say. She REFUSES to see anyone. Yes she has had a drug and alcohol problem. She already has a DUI. I sold her car after that.

[dreamingoftigers]

HereNor,

First of all, she has minimal symptoms of BPD, and it has been over a VERY short time. If it were serious, symptoms would have been known for some time. It's pretty hard to have and not be notice, especially living with someone. For now, quite curable. Also, FWIW, depression is also curable, and a bunch easier. One can take pills that can often stop, or minimize depression rapidly, but does require a doctors care and monitoring. FWIW, here's the symptoms of BPD:

 

++++++++++

BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

And insecurity

 

1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;

 

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"

 

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;

 

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;

 

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;

 

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;

 

7. Low self esteem;

 

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;

 

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;

 

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;

 

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);

 

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;

 

13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"

 

14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;

 

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;

 

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);

 

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and

 

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.

++++++++

 

ALSO, BDP can be fixed and most professionals agree (just do a simple search). It's not easy, but it is doable. Does take time, and requires professional care. While medicines can't fix it, they can help with related symptoms of depression, anxiety, and others.

 

The person with BPD does need to WANT to be cured and that is often a big issue, and hard to tell them they have this disease. That's probably one of the biggest problems.

 

I been there and done this.... over TWO years of dealing with this, with a loved one. I gave up because the person would not acknowledge this and would fight back. I hated to give up, but the future looked like no solution. It got to the point that I needed professional help to deal with it. Stress and anxiety was off the wall.

 

Now, I don't see it with M1ke12's wife. Sure, she has some signs up depression, unstability and confusion..... and there's something that caused this which is unknown at this time. She does have some issues.... ALL curable, and she will have to want to be cured.

 

Thank you for this post.

 

I hate having to go into threads and correct misinformation about BPD.

 

BPD is sort of the "Flavor on the Month" diagnosis for when people misbehave or have serious issues. Sort of like the ADD of the early 2000s.

 

[M1ke12]

Thank you for this post.

 

I hate having to go into threads and correct misinformation about BPD.

 

BPD is sort of the "Flavor on the Month" diagnosis for when people misbehave or have serious issues. Sort of like the ADD of the early 2000s.

 

 

Haha I love your signature.

 

Interesting. I have known the diagnosis to be fairly consistent. When did it change?

[Just a Guy]

Hi M1ke12, I'm sorry to see you in such a sad situation. I have gone through your complete thread and I must commend you for your fortitude in a situation such as you are facing. I had some observations about facts which have emerged over the course of your thread. One is that this illness that your daughter is suffering from definitely seems to be inherited most probably from your wife's side of the family. If that be true then your wife possibly also suffers from it only not in such a virulent form. I have had a close family member suffer from bipolar disorder and what I gather of the ailment is that it remains dormant till some pressure situation comes up and then it triggers. Once it has happened the first time it never really gets cured or eliminated because it is a faut line in the mental make up of the person which never gets repaired. Of course with the advances in medicines a disorder like this can be managed much better. I think Dreaming of tigers has already confirmed this and so your wife and daughter may have a good chance of being able to recover and lead as normal a life as may be possible in the circumstances.

As far as infidelity goes, your wife's episodes may have been an escape from her real or imagined problems. However it may also be a desire on her part to rebel against you for problems which she perceives that you are responsible for in your marriage. You will have to work with her to find what was the reason for her infidelity. One way you can find out what's on her mind is to put it to her as to whether she wants to remain married to you or does she want a divorce. Her answer and more importantly, her reaction to your question will tell you a lot. I hope it all works out well for you in the end. Warm wishes.

[M1ke12]

Hi M1ke12, I'm sorry to see you in such a sad situation. I have gone through your complete thread and I must commend you for your fortitude in a situation such as you are facing. I had some observations about facts which have emerged over the course of your thread. One is that this illness that your daughter is suffering from definitely seems to be inherited most probably from your wife's side of the family. If that be true then your wife possibly also suffers from it only not in such a virulent form. I have had a close family member suffer from bipolar disorder and what I gather of the ailment is that it remains dormant till some pressure situation comes up and then it triggers. Once it has happened the first time it never really gets cured or eliminated because it is a faut line in the mental make up of the person which never gets repaired. Of course with the advances in medicines a disorder like this can be managed much better. I think Dreaming of tigers has already confirmed this and so your wife and daughter may have a good chance of being able to recover and lead as normal a life as may be possible in the circumstances.

As far as infidelity goes, your wife's episodes may have been an escape from her real or imagined problems. However it may also be a desire on her part to rebel against you for problems which she perceives that you are responsible for in your marriage. You will have to work with her to find what was the reason for her infidelity. One way you can find out what's on her mind is to put it to her as to whether she wants to remain married to you or does she want a divorce. Her answer and more importantly, her reaction to your question will tell you a lot. I hope it all works out well for you in the end. Warm wishes.

 

I visited her last week end. After an awkward and emotional beginning finally I asked her if she was attending marital counseling to decide if she wanted to be married or if she was agreeing to go in order to repair the marriage. She replied the latter. Actually a lot of my anxiety went away allowing both of us to relax. There were tears. Some laughs. And a lot of talk. Hard to find a private place to talk.... In that place your never alone

[dreamingoftigers]

Haha I love your signature.

 

Interesting. I have known the diagnosis to be fairly consistent. When did it change?

 

I was first evaluated in 2000.

Diagnosis confirmed in 2004 after another hospitalization.

 

Therapy ensued after.

 

I was re-evaluated in 2012 (due to outside circumstances, my husband at the time was risking losing custody of our daughter so he brought up my mental health record which was 8 years prior, he ended up losing visitation for 2 months anyway until he got into treatment and has his own evaluation). In my 2012 evaluation there were issues regarding my weight management but other than that, the impulsive suicidal issues that plagued my youth were gone. I no longer fit enough of the BPD traits to be considered BPD.

 

Off of the top of my head, I am an impulsive eater and impulsive spender. I NEVER did drugs. I don't drink at all. (My father being an alcoholic sealed that deal). I don't smoke or cheat. I don't cut or have suicidal ideation. I was never prone to violent outbursts. If anything I am left with an overabundance of empathy. I have trouble watching some comedy shows because of the way the characters treat each other, for instance. I don't "freak out" or "break down crying" or anything but it does internally disturb me. Especially comedy with a lot of "contempt" in it.

 

The EMDR therapy was what really did it. Considering many people with BPD have layers of childhood trauma, I am surprised that EMDR isn't a standard therapy for those diagnosed with BPD. Even CBT/DBT didn't touch its effectiveness.

 

I still attend weekly counseling, completely voluntary and my church offers it to me, knowing the issues I have gone through historically. It is helpful for me to have a listening ear to help me process whatever I am going through. Most sessions are more of an "update" but I still have some insecurity about if my behaviour falls in normal range. Or what I might role-modelling to my daughter who I suspect has the BPD disposition. She seems to be able to make a lot more sense of her feelings at 6 than I could at 26 though. So that's reassuring.

 

I simply don't trigger like I did in my youth. I have heard that there are a percentage of people that "grow out of" their BPD. Staying away from my parents / limiting contact is fairly crucial for me I think. I don't have the same trauma triggering with my father, but I don't like to think about it either. The further away chronologically and physically I am from the abusive and deprivational place I grew up in, the better I do. I often compare it to growing up in prison, no one would expect someone who grew up in a literal prison to be totally normal or adjusted when they were released into the world (in my case at the age of 16). I finished high school myself and supported myself by working full-time. After that, I sort of fell apart.

[renny]

I think your marrage is worth saving. If she was normal, well adjusted, and still did all this, I'd say dump her divorce her, and move on. The fact is your wife is a alcoholic and a drug addict. She's going through a serious mental crisis and needs help. She was not in her right mind when she had those affairs. What she did was brutal but try to support her through this as best you can. Now, later after shes done with rehab and on something to stabilize her mentally there are no more excuses. If this happens again, leave her and move on.

[M1ke12]

I think your marrage is worth saving. If she was normal, well adjusted, and still did all this, I'd say dump her divorce her, and move on. The fact is your wife is a alcoholic and a drug addict. She's going through a serious mental crisis and needs help. She was not in her right mind when she had those affairs. What she did was brutal but try to support her through this as best you can. Now, later after shes done with rehab and on something to stabilize her mentally there are no more excuses. If this happens again, leave her and move on.

 

Thats the plan! I won't go through this again. Any sign, even one text message and I am out.

[M1ke12]

If the goal is to rebuild the marriage then should we have sex this week end when I see her? She will be able to leave for 6 hours and I will have a hotel room.

 

I can see where pushing her away, and also doing things that might allow us to reconnect could help.

 

I don't know which way is better.

[M1ke12]

Sitting here thinking....

 

Its just so odd that I was sitting here thinking I should tell her, "you had your affair, now I get to go climb Denali."

 

Random comment I know I just thought it was so strange that my mind would go there.

[JamesM]

I am one of those that say this marriage can be saved. I say so only because I also know of a guy who changed dramatically when put on Zoloft and testosterone. He was successful and rich and handsome. And having seen her, she is absolutely gorgeous. And yes, having talked with her about all this and hearing from him, yes, she loves sex and is passionate.

 

This normal family guy suddenly began visiting escorts and streetwalkers without any regard for his safety. He drove in the bad side of town and parked leaving the doors unlocked while visiting a drug addicted streetwalker in a drug house. He did this for over a year before he gave his wife an STD.

 

Now he is off the drugs and very repentant. They are attempting to reconcile. So far it looks like they will. It has been a year and a half since he was discovered.

 

Before I had heard of his case or others, then I would have been suspicious that this was a cover for her affairs. It still could be that inner hurt and anger helped drive her to alcohol and affairs. It could be that the depression that put her on Zoloft helped her choose this route. But it is very likely that the Zoloft messed with her mind and actually "made" her do all of this. Find either the book at the link below or another by Peter Breggin. It will open your eyes to how AD drugs can actually change the personality and behavior of people. Look on youtube for some videos by him. It may help you.

Psychiatric Drug Facts with Dr. Peter Breggin - Talking Back to Prozac

 

Her reasoning that she was part of a movie that she was watching is not simply an excuse.

 

Know that YOU will be having a roller coaster of an emotional ride for many months to come no matter what you two decide to do with our marriage. Love can help but commitment in times of sadness and anger will get you both through this. No one knows the future, but you can help make it.

[JamesM]

If the goal is to rebuild the marriage then should we have sex this week end when I see her?

 

Don't plan on it. IMO you may not want to do it. There may be too many flashbacks for you. It may make you angry thinking of the other men. It may make you wonder what is going on in her mind during the lovemaking.

 

SHE may want to so that she can feel your closeness again, but it may be better that the two of you simply talk.

[happyman64]

Sitting here thinking....

 

Its just so odd that I was sitting here thinking I should tell her, "you had your affair, now I get to go climb Denali."

 

Random comment I know I just thought it was so strange that my mind would go there.

 

Not so random and very apropos.

 

And just communicate this weekend openly, civilly and respectfully.

 

If your time leads to sex so be it but there are lots of ways you two need to reconnect.....

 

No pressure on either of you is the way to start.

[M1ke12]

I am one of those that say this marriage can be saved. I say so only because I also know of a guy who changed dramatically when put on Zoloft and testosterone. He was successful and rich and handsome. And having seen her, she is absolutely gorgeous. And yes, having talked with her about all this and hearing from him, yes, she loves sex and is passionate.

 

This normal family guy suddenly began visiting escorts and streetwalkers without any regard for his safety. He drove in the bad side of town and parked leaving the doors unlocked while visiting a drug addicted streetwalker in a drug house. He did this for over a year before he gave his wife an STD.

 

Now he is off the drugs and very repentant. They are attempting to reconcile. So far it looks like they will. It has been a year and a half since he was discovered.

 

Before I had heard of his case or others, then I would have been suspicious that this was a cover for her affairs. It still could be that inner hurt and anger helped drive her to alcohol and affairs. It could be that the depression that put her on Zoloft helped her choose this route. But it is very likely that the Zoloft messed with her mind and actually "made" her do all of this. Find either the book at the link below or another by Peter Breggin. It will open your eyes to how AD drugs can actually change the personality and behavior of people. Look on youtube for some videos by him. It may help you.

Psychiatric Drug Facts with Dr. Peter Breggin - Talking Back to Prozac

 

Her reasoning that she was part of a movie that she was watching is not simply an excuse.

 

Know that YOU will be having a roller coaster of an emotional ride for many months to come no matter what you two decide to do with our marriage. Love can help but commitment in times of sadness and anger will get you both through this. No one knows the future, but you can help make it.

 

You did set me to thinking here.

 

Of course I am going to insist on no drinking. But now I may request that she go off Zoloft as well.

[HereNorThere]

You may request that she talks to her doctor about getting off sertraline, but that's definitely not something that a person just stops taking without medical help. SSRI discontinuation syndrome can be very serious and should be done with a gradual step down/taper process. She will most likely have major side effects like brain zaps, depression, gastrointestinal issues, etc. I tapered off of Duloxetine and it was a freaking a nightmare. I never imagine that a drug that had such little effect on me could cause so me so much pain and discomfort. It was the better part of 2 months before I finally stopped having withdrawal symptoms.

[dreamingoftigers]

You did set me to thinking here.

 

Of course I am going to insist on no drinking. But now I may request that she go off Zoloft as well.

 

That reminds me, my 48 hour issues were also when I was withdrawing cold turkey from Dexedrine (PRESCRIPTION).

 

I have used Dexedrine since and withdrawn off of it since as well with no other symptoms that extra sleeping. But that first time really messed with my brain chemistry, I really believe that it played a part.

[HereNorThere]

That reminds me, my 48 hour issues were also when I was withdrawing cold turkey from Dexedrine (PRESCRIPTION).

 

I have used Dexedrine since and withdrawn off of it since as well with no other symptoms that extra sleeping. But that first time really messed with my brain chemistry, I really believe that it played a part.

 

I do understand that you are trying to relate your experience, but Dextroamphetamine is an entirely different beast than something like an SSRI. The molecule is one methyl group away from methamphetamine and very, very similar in action. Comparing something with that much affinity for dopamine to a drug that's so selective to serotonin is just apples and oranges.

 

The funny part is I think the withdrawal from an SSRI is sooo much worse than amphetamines. Amphetamines are more addictive and there is zero doubt about that, but the neurotransmitters associated with it seem to restore their levels at a much faster rate. SSRI withdrawal is agony and it seems to take months to get over. You can usually sleep of an amphetamine withdrawal over a weekend or so.

 

I just point that out because I want OP to understand how severe it could possibly get if she stops taking it. She could easily make a bad situation even worse. Personally, I would have her wait until she is in a better place mentally. No need to start tempting fate.

Edited January 20, 2016 by HereNorThere

[M1ke12]

You may request that she talks to her doctor about getting off sertraline, but that's definitely not something that a person just stops taking without medical help. SSRI discontinuation syndrome can be very serious and should be done with a gradual step down/taper process. She will most likely have major side effects like brain zaps, depression, gastrointestinal issues, etc. I tapered off of Duloxetine and it was a freaking a nightmare. I never imagine that a drug that had such little effect on me could cause so me so much pain and discomfort. It was the better part of 2 months before I finally stopped having withdrawal symptoms.

 

She is well informed on how to quit.

[dreamingoftigers]

I do understand that you are trying to relate your experience, but Dextroamphetamine is an entirely different beast than something like an SSRI. The molecule is one methyl group away from methamphetamine and very, very similar in action. Comparing something with that much affinity for dopamine to a drug that's so selective to serotonin is just apples and oranges.

 

The funny part is I think the withdrawal from an SSRI is sooo much worse than amphetamines. Amphetamines are more addictive and there is zero doubt about that, but the neurotransmitters associated with it seem to restore their levels at a much faster rate. SSRI withdrawal is agony and it seems to take months to get over. You can usually sleep of an amphetamine withdrawal over a weekend or so.

 

I just point that out because I want OP to understand how severe it could possibly get if she stops taking it. She could easily make a bad situation even worse. Personally, I would have her wait until she is in a better place mentally. No need to start tempting fate.

 

I get that.

 

My underlying point was that prescription drugs can cause (or contribute) to our brains, and by consequence our actions getting very muddled.

 

Of the prescription drugs I have had a very negative reaction to:

 

Wellbutrin, well taking it, I would go into rage.

Dexedrine, withdrawal from it, complete chaos.

And Effexor, which IS an SSRI, I went "cold turkey" off if it and ended up sick out of both ends for days. Also if I stood up to quickly, I sometimes toppled over. Made me very dizzy.

[big dog]

Time to bail out ! That ship is sinking fast....

[M1ke12]

Time to bail out ! That ship is sinking fast....

a lesser man would!

 

Something happened almost overnight to the woman I love. I have to stick around to find out. If I left now, I would always be wondering if I did the right thing. That is no way to live either.

 

No. Stick it out, see where things go.

Edited January 20, 2016 by M1ke12

[JamesM]

I would say not to quit until you know it is time. Quitting too soon will only make you wonder "What if?"

 

And if she does heal from this all and becomes a new woman, do you really want to stand back and see her move on in life without you?

 

Yes, the alternative is that she "sinks," but this is not like a boat where if you "go down with her" you drown. In fact, you may not only feel better knowing you did all that you can but you may be able to bring her up.

 

A very difficult situation indeed, but there is hope.

[M1ke12]

I would say not to quit until you know it is time. Quitting too soon will only make you wonder "What if?"

 

And if she does heal from this all and becomes a new woman, do you really want to stand back and see her move on in life without you?

 

Yes, the alternative is that she "sinks," but this is not like a boat where if you "go down with her" you drown. In fact, you may not only feel better knowing you did all that you can but you may be able to bring her up.

 

A very difficult situation indeed, but there is hope.

 

Wow that is a very simple yet powerful observation.........this really lifts my mood.

 

Excellent way to look at things James! Go through your day knowing you helped a complete stranger feel better.