When Should A Guy Propose?

[BettyDraper]

I have been dating a guy (35) for 2.5 years now.

 

Living together for about 2 years and he has not proposed.

 

I have raised the topic with him - he claims he is in no major rush & has too much at stake to get married (business/house etc).

 

He has been engaged before & that didnt work out - mainly because I have heard she was absolutely crazy. :laugh: I am constantly told about his "bad" experience before. All of his friends comment on how I am much nicer as a person.

 

I am 26 and in an ideal world I would like to have a child before I hit the 30. :bunny: I have never even considered the thought of having children with someone before so its a big thing for me too!

 

Anytime I talk about it he gets defensive & says I am putting him under pressure. Really I just want to know if we are going anywhere in the future as I don't want to wait for another 5 years and still no. He attends multiple "stag" parties per year so I would of thought it was his time too!

 

We have traveled the world together, spend all of our time together & also have 2 cats.

 

Just wandering on what the thoughts are here?

Should I leave now, put a time scale on it, any ideas??

 

I would leave if I were you. He clearly does not want to get married and I would hate to see yet another woman waste her time with a man who isn't on the same page as she is. It doesn't take nearly 3 years to know if marriage is in the cards...especially since he is older than you and 35 at that. A proposal should not come from intense pressure and ultimatums.

 

A man should propose when he is ready and when he knows that the woman he is with is someone that he can see himself with forever. Your boyfriend may be gun shy after his engagement, but that's still no reason why he cannot marry you. He just doesn't want to get married and he's afraid of losing his home and his business in a divorce.

 

Cut your losses and do not waste any more of your best years with this man. In the future, be honest about your intentions when you date and only date men who are marriage minded so you don't run into this problem again. You don't want to end up 35 with no children and still waiting for your boyfriend to marry you.

[BettyDraper]

You dont have to buy a house to be married and have children.

 

You can marry and rent etc.

 

Just more excuses.

 

This. Plenty of couples start out small and rent.

My husband and I rented for five years before we bought our first home.

I would NEVER buy property with a man I am not married to.

Why should a man get the financial benefits of marriage without being my husband?

[Amelie1980]

This. Plenty of couples start out small and rent.

My husband and I rented for five years before we bought our first home.

I would NEVER buy property with a man I am not married to.

Why should a man get the financial benefits of marriage without being my husband?

 

This is so true.

 

A old colleague of mine bought a house with her long term boyfriend. He became an abusive drunk while they lived together and she didnt want to be with him anymore let alone marry him.

 

She asked him to sell up and split the house....no he said. Therein lies the problem. Both owners have to consent to the sale. He wouldnt. He wanted to stay.

 

She couldnt afford to buy his share and leave him with the house. It took over a year for her to get him to agree.

 

When you own a house and married, instigate divorce and the law takes care of the property. Not married, aint alot you can do.

[No_Go]

OP, where do you live?

 

I just start thinking that in Europe is VERY common people to date many years before engaging (5+ was the typical when I used to live in NL)

 

Attitude to marriage is so different in the US, I was nearly shocked when I came here.

[xxoo]

Men marry because they want to be with this person, for sure, forever and always, through thick and thin. Men marry because they are so in love that, if this woman goes through hard times, he wants to be there to support her and help her. He's that attached and in love and frankly irrational.

 

This guy sounds pretty rational, and not so very in love. He'd be upset if you leave him, but he's willing to risk it. Better that than marrying.

 

Leave him and find someone who wants to marry you.

[BettyDraper]

There is no way for you to pressure him into marriage. You have different life goals. Nothing you can say will change his mind any more than anything he can say would change your mind (as evidenced by this post). I think the general concept of do you want marriage someday should come up earlier in the dating process. It is a bit like having two different religions, saying we are going to have kids together, and waiting until the kids are born to debate which religious philosophy you are going to teach your children. The time for those questions is early in the dating process, once exclusivity is agreed upon IMHO. That way you know is this person compatible in the long term.

 

Personally, I've never understood why it takes people years of dating to figure out if they want to get married (maybe someone can clue me in). I can tell in 6 months if the relationship has the potential for a life long partnership. Especially, if you're already living together. What is the difference at that point, aside from you have not entered into a financial contract. That and perceived societal elevation that goes with being married.

 

A bit of other advice about men. When we hit 30 or so, we are basically set in our ways. What you see is what you get. Yes, he should know by now what he wants and he does. It's not marriage. That baggage from the other relationship is just an excuse. If you are really wanting marriage from this guy, you said you spend all your time together. Well there is a saying, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." Right now you are giving him all the benefits of a wife, with none of the commitment. Before ditching him totally, try a break. He might realize what he has once its no longer convenient and given with no strings attached.

 

PS: two cats don't matter to a guy. Dogs are a man's best friend. We don't care about cats, if you had said two dogs, you might have some leverage. lol j/k

 

Not all men are the same. My husband doesn't like dogs. He inherited a cat when we moved in together. He likes cats far more than he likes dogs because cats require less upkeep. My husband also had a beloved cat which was hit by a car when he was little, so I'm sure that event probably imprinted on my husband and began a lifetime of loving cats. I also know more than two other men who love cats.

 

The species of pet in the OP's case is completely irrelevant. The bottom line his, her boyfriend doesn't want to get married and a dog wouldn't change that.

 

Plenty of men marry later than 30 for different reasons. My husband and I never wanted to get married until we met each other and he was 36 on our wedding day.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP stepping back. A commitment shy man who loves his girlfriend will often change his tune once she dumps him and moves on with her life...especially if he finds out that she is dating other men. I think she should dump her boyfriend and let him know that she loves herself too much to waste any more time with someone who isn't on the same page as her. The OP's boyfriend will be blindsided by the loss because he knows that she loves him more than he loves her. Time to change that!

 

If the OP's boyfriend calls, she should tell him not to call her again until he has grown up enough to know what he wants out of his future. All of this sounds manipulative but men who are afraid of commitment get too comfortable when they see that a woman will stay no matter what.

He needs to be uncomfortable in order to prioritize commitment.

[mineral27]

Me? I'd be content with what Gaeta describes her brother having. Just family, a few friends and my SO.

 

I want the money to spend on our lives together, not throwing a huge party.

 

I am not actually that bothered about marriage now. If someone remained faithful to me for life, that would be enough.

 

Hey, I completely agree with you on this ... but that doesn't mean I support condemning people who want something different - even if I personally find it lavish and unnecessary.

And yes, many brides can be bridezillas, but this is not necessarily directly correlated to the amount of money spent on a wedding.

 

Your friend or basically anyone who's too anxious to get married in a certain time frame or in a certain way (big expensive wedding) should search within themselves WHY they want this so bad;

if their motives are rooted in fantasies, if they're too afraid to be alone, if they have this mental checklists they want to complete, etc.

 

If two people love each other, are mature enough to understand drive for their decisions and if they can afford a big wedding, why would that be so wrong?

[BettyDraper]

Hey, I completely agree with you on this ... but that doesn't mean I support condemning people who want something different - even if I personally find it lavish and unnecessary.

And yes, many brides can be bridezillas, but this is not necessarily directly correlated to the amount of money spent on a wedding.

 

Your friend or basically anyone who's too anxious to get married in a certain time frame or in a certain way (big expensive wedding) should search within themselves WHY they want this so bad;

if their motives are rooted in fantasies, if they're too afraid to be alone, if they have this mental checklists they want to complete, etc.

 

If two people love each other, are mature enough to understand drive for their decisions and if they can afford a big wedding, why would that be so wrong?

 

The key word here is "afford". Too many couples spend more than they can manage on a wedding or they spend tens of thousands on a wedding without having any other assets. I think that is stupid.

 

Nothing wrong with renting as a married couple. However, only foolish couples spend a down payment on a wedding and honeymoon, only to return to their one bedroom apartments after the celebrations.

[vagabonder]

My suggestion? Move out, and if you want to stay together, give him an ultimatum, and FOLLOW THROUGH with it.

Tell him you want marriage, and would like to start your life with him, but if he isn't ready, then you need to move on. Marriage doesn't follow living together, just because you are dating.

 

 

 

His mindset is: he's comfortable, why change anything?

And... it's just terrible, but some men are too cowardly to end the relationship if they know they don't want to marry the girl, but like her enough to stay with her, without commitment.

 

 

Your issue can be easily resolved, but it may not get you the result you are after.

 

Please do NOT give an ultimatum. Let's assume he caves in to it. Do you really want to be married to a guy who isn't excited about the idea? What do you think that marriage will look like 5-10 years down the road? Unfortunately now in my mid 40s, I'm seeing all you wel how these marriages are turning out. And it isn't pretty.

 

It sucks to have spent so many years committed to someone in a different place than you. Stop nagging. Stop bringing it up. Give a deadline and then decide that is the point you leave, just knowing that you want different things. You don't want a guy to feel pressured into marrying you. You will never feel safe and secure in that marriage.

[Wewon]

This really is a simple, although painful, situation.

 

If you're not on the same page, then leave the relationship. Its an inherent deal breaker and you should move on to find someone that has a value system that is the same as your own.

 

The only alternative is to bully, cajole, threaten and otherwise manipulate him into making a lifetime commitment to you.

[GravityMan]

OP's boyfriend does not want to marry. It is not obvious to me whether that means "not marry at all" or "not marry HER". I suspect the latter, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. The OP does want to marry and have kids. Conclusion = they are incompatible long term. I think it's quite clear what she should do, and do soon.

 

Most men that are...

- 27+ years old

- have some decent relationship and general social/life experience (i.e. they know themselves well and have a decent idea of what they want and don't want)

- decent judges of character (which also comes with prior experience)

 

...will likely know within 3 to 6 months whether a woman is marriage-material or not. A casual conversation about marriage in general, along with children, will take place early on...to get a feel for where the other person stands. And if he truly loves her, it won't be all that much longer (1-2 years) before he proposes.

 

There are men who are legitimately opposed to marriage and that's fine (marriage ain't for everyone)...but I think the percentage of men who are truly like that is very low. I suspect the larger percentage of men who vocally rail against marriage would actually, willingly and happily marry the right woman that they were truly in love with. Especially those naysayers who were never married themselves...they attack marriage because they're scared. Talk is cheap sometimes, actions and emotions tell the real story.

 

Lots of men meet that special woman when they aren't expecting it.

[TheFinalWord]

Not all men are the same. My husband doesn't like dogs. He inherited a cat when we moved in together. He likes cats far more than he likes dogs because cats require less upkeep. My husband also had a beloved cat which was hit by a car when he was little, so I'm sure that event probably imprinted on my husband and began a lifetime of loving cats. I also know more than two other men who love cats.

 

The species of pet in the OP's case is completely irrelevant. The bottom line his, her boyfriend doesn't want to get married and a dog wouldn't change that.

 

The cat line was a joke. J/K means joking!

[Gaeta]

Hmmm.

 

So the advice is to be a yes girl? And to be cool?

 

Just being a yes girl may give the impression you are not interested in them. After the first few dates, I think it is reasonable to be take some lead in the matter or you will give the impression you are not interested in them.

 

Being cool is another way of just letting things slide.

 

I didnt achieve anything in life by being a yes girl. Waiting for someone else to make all the choices.

 

Go back and read the part about men and marriage.

[truth_seeker]

 

...will likely know within 3 to 6 months whether a woman is marriage-material or not.

 

 

I liked your entire post but highlighted the above as I believe it to be very true.

 

Every woman I've been involved with I knew after awhile they were not marriage material for me. I'm different than a lot of guys in that I won't get involved in a relationship that I know has no future. I will end it right away. The guys who string these women along are really creeps out for themselves.

[BettyDraper]

This really is a simple, although painful, situation.

 

If you're not on the same page, then leave the relationship. Its an inherent deal breaker and you should move on to find someone that has a value system that is the same as your own.

 

The only alternative is to bully, cajole, threaten and otherwise manipulate him into making a lifetime commitment to you.

 

I think that it is best to ask about relationship goals early on, so that this kind of painful situation doesn't occur down the road.

[abby_tx]

I dated a guy for 7 years waiting for him to propose. I regret not having brought an engagement up. I should have asked when/if he wanted it. Instead I was mum hoping he'd surprise me. He did surprise me, but not with an engagement ring. He left me for another woman. Oh and like you're guy, mine blamed it on waiting for business and home and other things to make himself more stable.

[katiegrl]

I dated a guy for 7 years waiting for him to propose. I regret not having brought an engagement up. I should have asked when/if he wanted it. Instead I was mum hoping he'd surprise me. He did surprise me, but not with an engagement ring. He left me for another woman. Oh and like you're guy, mine blamed it on waiting for business and home and other things to make himself more stable.

 

I'm sorry abby, that sucks.

 

Unfortunately though it's also fairly common in situations like this.

[thecrucible]

You dont have to buy a house to be married and have children.

 

You can marry and rent etc.

 

Just more excuses.

 

Well in my friends' case, they are genuinely in the process of buying a house. The guy in the relationship (a childhood friend of mine) I believe has a process in his mind about moving into together and then planning to make a proposal. She is the only girl he has been with.

 

Another friend of mine has been with her guy for 6 years. They're not engaged but she just got a job near him after their entire relationship being long-distance up to this point; and she's moved into his house with his parents. He turns 30 this year. I don't know if a proposal is on the cards but I have never asked as I'd rather be there for advice if required than get nosily involved in my friends' romantic lives.

[thecrucible]

I dated a guy for 7 years waiting for him to propose. I regret not having brought an engagement up. I should have asked when/if he wanted it. Instead I was mum hoping he'd surprise me. He did surprise me, but not with an engagement ring. He left me for another woman. Oh and like you're guy, mine blamed it on waiting for business and home and other things to make himself more stable.

 

Sorry to hear that Abby . I will take your advice and bring it up with the guy if I end up in a similar situation.

[nadzz]

My boyfriend's friend is about to propose to his girlfriend and they have only been together (and known each other) for 4 months. I guess when you know, you know.

[Lois_Griffin]

He is aware I would always want a kid after marriage and he feels the same as far as that's concerned. Baby talk does not scare him, more the thought of getting engaged i think

Well of course 'baby talk' doesn't scare him. If he keeps stalling about getting engaged, he knows the baby thing ain't gonna happen so why should it scare him?

 

 

If you're smart, you won't get pregnant.

 

 

He's basically getting everything now that he would if he were married, so he has no incentive to marry you. Apparently he's not too anxious to have kids, either. He sounds like one of those guys that will suddenly feel the need to have kids when he's 50 years old and will shop around for a young wife until he finds one who wants him. Then, he'll end up having a boatload of kids all under 5 years old by the time he's 56. You'd be surprised at how many of them are out there that do JUST that.

[truth_seeker]

He sounds like one of those guys that will suddenly feel the need to have kids when he's 50 years old and will shop around for a young wife until he finds one who wants him. Then, he'll end up having a boatload of kids all under 5 years old by the time he's 56. You'd be surprised at how many of them are out there that do JUST that.

 

What's wrong with that? If he's healthy and has money, what's the problem?

[Qboro90]

If two people really love each other, a quiet small wedding and an apartment are enough.

 

Stuff is just stuff.

 

I also find spending a shed load of cash on a huge white wedding and extended honeymoon hugely stupid and irresponsible. Youve got a whole lifetime to cater for and tens of thousands of dollars is spent on one day of it. that will dictate the life you have as newlyweds....paying off a huge wedding.

 

Why is the kind of life you have as newly weds more important than your lifestyle while living together unmarried.

 

 

I completely agree about spending on a wedding. I think it's such a waste of money to spend so much on 1 day in your lives. We'd rather dedicate that money to a house and savings for our future.

 

That being said, she does want to have a wedding with about 100 people so I want to give her that and be able to look back on the day fondly. Just doing something cheap for the sake of it is not what I'm speaking about. It's the financial stability I want to start my marriage with . Instead of burdening my future with with the financial bills and obligations because I wasn't prepared due to getting married 8 months too soon.

[Qboro90]

I am interested in the marriage part here. Whether you loved her and were a good boyfriend for 4 years, good on you but it's not relevant to the subject at hand.

 

Do you want a marriage or you want a wedding?

 

Whether you marry at city hall or in a castle in Spain will not make a difference on your commitment toward each other.

 

What I am saying is couples that really want to marry, they do. They don't delay with reasons like money, houses, work ....and wedding money.

 

No it's not just me thinking this way. Since marriage exist !! couples marry when they are starting in life and have nothing! because the goal in marrying is to create a team to work on building a life and family together. ONLY since a few years ago that WEDDINGS have become these huge commercial money pit and couples have to come up with these ridiculous 75K wedding.

 

My brother and his wife were both in their early 30s. They were saving up for a house, they were living in an apartment, had an old beaten car, and no money to do anything frivolous but they wanted to get married more than they wanted a wedding. Her father had an old cottage by a river in a beautiful site. They married there by the river under a gazebo with only immediate family. It was the most beautiful wedding I have been too.

 

Again people that want to marry they find the way to do it. People that want a wedding, that's something else.

 

 

The history of our relationship and the fact that I've been transparent and loyal without question is incredibly relevant. If I were someone who told her something and didn't follow through in the past then she would have reason not to support me with this situation. That's not the case whatsoever .

 

My goal has always been to marry her. She knows that. She does not want to just get married at city hall and get it over with. She also does not want a large costly wedding with extravagant location , etc. We will be paying for the wedding ourselves so add that to the cost of the engagement ring, house down payment, furniture for the house, etc and that means tens of thousands of dollars that will be needed in the coming years.

 

Now I've worked to establish a savings account and set aside money where I bought the ring and have more for the house. However due to the fact that I'm in a new job, it made me uncomfortable to take on those financial responsibilities last year when I was unsure of the stability of the job and what I could expect to make in commission so early on in the position. Those uncertainties would be figured out within 8-12 months. Then it's green light and let's do it all!

 

Why that is unreasonable to you is baffling. It's not like I asked her to wait 5 years or was telling her that I was unsure about getting married. Furthermore if I saw that she was unwilling to support me after j supported her when she went back to school to get into her current position, then it would make me re think the entire relationship. Thankfully she eventually was able to stand be me and give me the confident to know she wanted a life with me and not just a wedding. She got the ring shortly thereafter.

 

If you think a couple who is broke, should just marry one another because they love each other, then they will begin their lives together struggling to make ends meet which can add an incredible amount of stress to the relationship. And yes, I understand that some couple can work through this and come out stronger at the end. Others however crumble and it's too much to take on at the start. I don't want to add stress and problems to the first few months /years to our marriage that can be avoided by simply waiting 8-12 months and building the financial ammunition we will need during our marriage .

 

The fact that we live in NYC which is the most expensive real estate area in the world makes our options limited. Renting a small apartment would just be a complete waste of money and just be throwing money away that we could use for a down payment on a house. So once again. I think you're "get married tomorrow in a basement if you love her" suggestion is nonsense.

[Gaeta]

The history of our relationship and the fact that I've been transparent and loyal without question is incredibly relevant. If I were someone who told her something and didn't follow through in the past then she would have reason not to support me with this situation. That's not the case whatsoever .

 

My goal has always been to marry her. She knows that. She does not want to just get married at city hall and get it over with. She also does not want a large costly wedding with extravagant location , etc. We will be paying for the wedding ourselves so add that to the cost of the engagement ring, house down payment, furniture for the house, etc and that means tens of thousands of dollars that will be needed in the coming years.

 

Now I've worked to establish a savings account and set aside money where I bought the ring and have more for the house. However due to the fact that I'm in a new job, it made me uncomfortable to take on those financial responsibilities last year when I was unsure of the stability of the job and what I could expect to make in commission so early on in the position. Those uncertainties would be figured out within 8-12 months. Then it's green light and let's do it all!

 

Why that is unreasonable to you is baffling. It's not like I asked her to wait 5 years or was telling her that I was unsure about getting married. Furthermore if I saw that she was unwilling to support me after j supported her when she went back to school to get into her current position, then it would make me re think the entire relationship. Thankfully she eventually was able to stand be me and give me the confident to know she wanted a life with me and not just a wedding. She got the ring shortly thereafter.

 

If you think a couple who is broke, should just marry one another because they love each other, then they will begin their lives together struggling to make ends meet which can add an incredible amount of stress to the relationship. And yes, I understand that some couple can work through this and come out stronger at the end. Others however crumble and it's too much to take on at the start. I don't want to add stress and problems to the first few months /years to our marriage that can be avoided by simply waiting 8-12 months and building the financial ammunition we will need during our marriage .

 

The fact that we live in NYC which is the most expensive real estate area in the world makes our options limited. Renting a small apartment would just be a complete waste of money and just be throwing money away that we could use for a down payment on a house. So once again. I think you're "get married tomorrow in a basement if you love her" suggestion is nonsense.

 

Qboro: Do you see in OP's boyfriend behavior ANY of the dedication you had-have for your girlfriend?

 

I did not mean to put you on the defensive. OP's boyfriend is not saying or doing ANY of the things you are doing with your girlfriend. Do you see that?