Feminism in dating (Updated)

[Rejected Rosebud]

I don't date feminists. Not every feminist falls into this category, but if she can't cook, can't clean, and can't treat me to a night out once in a while, then she has nothing to offer.

 

I don't mind splitting chores. In fact, I enjoy cooking and don't mind cooking the majority of the time.

 

But she can do the laundry while I'm cooking the family a nice three course meal. If she feels that's "beneath her", then she ain't the one for me.

 

Where on Earth did you get the idea that a feminist can't cook clean or do the laundry??:eek: Or take a guy out on the town??

[Woggle]

I am aware of what the dictionary says but women who actively call themselves would set off red flags if I were single. It wouldn't be a complete deal breaker but much of the time they are just misandrists hiding behind feminism. Feminism is similar to most major religions in the sense that the extremists have taken over and control the narrative.

[Rejected Rosebud]

However, I get the feeling - though I do not personally KNOW any - that there are "good" feminists out there who desire gender equality and harmony for both sexes.

Like me!! :)

[sambolini]

Where on Earth did you get the idea that a feminist can't cook clean or do the laundry??:eek: Or take a guy out on the town??

 

I'm not saying she "can't". I'm saying the majority choose not to.

[mrldii]

Genderists.

 

 

"I do not think that word means what you think it means." ~ Inigo Montoya

 

 

"genderist (adjective) : fostering stereotypes of social roles based on gender"

 

Merriam-Webster Online

 

 

Umm...exactly what feminism fights against is what you believe feminists should call themselves, instead.

[Woggle]

Call yourself feminists but openly oppose the gender warriors who are dragging the name through the mud and admit that men do have some legitimate issues such as family courts and how boys are doing in school. Doing so takes nothing away from women's issues.

[mrldii]

Woo-hoo!!!! Woggle has given me permission to accurately and in a non-bastardized way,

 

label myself a "feminist",without it being synonymous with "misandrist" and without setting off alarm bells and red-flags flying.

 

 

I'm honored.

[Els]

I can't say that I can keep a house clean however since I am living with a bunch of messy family members, I do aspire to be far better than my current living situation.

 

As for cooking, I will need to work on that once I finally go solo. However, that depends on how she feels about that and what she expects of me.

 

Lastly, for relocation, that isn't any issue with me at all. Honestly, I will be glad to move out of Jacksonville the first chance I get. If I have to leave the United States, that would be fine too. It would give me a whole different perspective on how the world works in my eyes.

 

Well... honestly, you can't say that you want to be a SAHD when you can't cook and can't keep your current house in order just because your family members are 'messy'. That's what kids do - they mess your house up! Why can't you learn to cook even though you are living with your family?

 

I also think moving out will increase your chances of finding a partner significantly. Even if you must live with roommates to save rent, it would be a lot better than living with your parents.

[readynow]

Here's the question I would like to ask:

 

The female gender will always carry the burden of pregnancy and childbirth. However accomplished we become, our bodies wll continue to be used to carry life. Wonderful but terribly inconvenient in many ways. For the foreseeable future, this will always be the case. I'm not speaking of individuals now, I'm speaking of the gender. I personally am a year and a half behind my male colleagues for this reason. No one has asked to help fast-track my progress. I'm grafting alongside the men.

 

My question: What burden is the male gender willing to carry for the sake of humanity? Is there anything the male gender can be happy to own as their lot even though terribly inconvenient?

 

Carrying on, for me, feminism is about giving women equal RIGHTS as men. Please look at the women who fought the cause of feminism. They were fighting to have the rights to vote, equal pay as men doing the same job, equal rights to their children, rights to their own bodies and their own property.

 

Feminism doesn't define who pays on dates and who does the dishes.

 

I personally find it pretty annoying when men complain about paying on dates, mowing the lawn, draining the oil, etc. I must confess that I've only experienced this on LS. The men I know IRL, friends, family and foe have bigger things to worry about. What is it you want to do for your woman or for your family then? Many women are fully capable of doing all these things and they do them well everyday. Don't men (the ones complaining) want to do ANYTHING?

 

You don't want to pay on dates, you don't want to do the dishes, you don't want to clean the house, you don't want a SAHM, you want a woman who works and spends her money, cooks and cleans, stays sexy and hot, does everything! Meanwhile, you want to dig in your heels and opt to do less and less while the woman learns to do more and more. Here's why young women are growing up to be superwomen and young men are growing up unable to leave mommy's sofa, blaming his problems on so called feminism

 

Get over it. Stick a finger (or a wallet) out and make yourself useful too and leave feminism alone.

[ltjg45]

Well... honestly, you can't say that you want to be a SAHD when you can't cook and can't keep your current house in order just because your family members are 'messy'. That's what kids do - they mess your house up! Why can't you learn to cook even though you are living with your family?

 

My family is not deserving of my efforts. They get very jealous and irritating when I go buy food for myself. I don't even want to think of what may happen if I start cooking for myself.

 

Besides, I never said I had to be a SAHD. I am just saying that my career focus is going to professions that is interesting to me. As a result, the pay may be pitiful in comparison.

 

This is why I prefer a woman that makes as much as me if not more. I just have no interest going down the path of a traditional man.

 

Once again, I refuse to be completely dependent on anyone. I will take care of myself. I expect the same of my partner.

 

I also think moving out will increase your chances of finding a partner significantly. Even if you must live with roommates to save rent, it would be a lot better than living with your parents.

 

That, I do agree. I just need to get out of there ASAP.

 

It's a shame my mother is doing whatever she can to keep me there so I can continue supporting her but if leaving means I have no more empathy for my mother, so be it.

[ltjg45]

My question: What burden is the male gender willing to carry for the sake of humanity? Is there anything the male gender can be happy to own as their lot even though terribly inconvenient?

 

There is really no right answer for your questions because every guy is different.

 

It is safe to say that the kind of guy I am and what I am looking for in a relationship is in the minority. I am nothing like what U.S. society expect from a 29-year old black man.

 

I am not aggressive when it comes to pursuing women or friends. I don't have any interest in most mainstream activities. I prefer to have only one woman tops in my life as opposed to casual dating/sleeping around. My answers can be typed up as an essay when given simple questions.

 

So if I were to answer that question, I would give you a wildly unpopular answer because that is the only answer I can give you: from my own experiences and my desires. Everyone else will do the same thing.

 

The same thing goes for women. We could rephrase those 2 questions and point it at women and get completely different answers from each women. Perhaps a few will respond the same but it is best not to assume that.

 

The best thing any of us can do is to find the best possible partner that can meet each other individual needs while staying true to our core.

[sambolini]

Here's the question I would like to ask:

 

The female gender will always carry the burden of pregnancy and childbirth. However accomplished we become, our bodies wll continue to be used to carry life. Wonderful but terribly inconvenient in many ways. For the foreseeable future, this will always be the case. I'm not speaking of individuals now, I'm speaking of the gender. I personally am a year and a half behind my male colleagues for this reason. No one has asked to help fast-track my progress. I'm grafting alongside the men.

 

My question: What burden is the male gender willing to carry for the sake of humanity? Is there anything the male gender can be happy to own as their lot even though terribly inconvenient?

 

Carrying on, for me, feminism is about giving women equal RIGHTS as men. Please look at the women who fought the cause of feminism. They were fighting to have the rights to vote, equal pay as men doing the same job, equal rights to their children, rights to their own bodies and their own property.

 

Feminism doesn't define who pays on dates and who does the dishes.

 

I personally find it pretty annoying when men complain about paying on dates, mowing the lawn, draining the oil, etc. I must confess that I've only experienced this on LS. The men I know IRL, friends, family and foe have bigger things to worry about. What is it you want to do for your woman or for your family then? Many women are fully capable of doing all these things and they do them well everyday. Don't men (the ones complaining) want to do ANYTHING?

 

You don't want to pay on dates, you don't want to do the dishes, you don't want to clean the house, you don't want a SAHM, you want a woman who works and spends her money, cooks and cleans, stays sexy and hot, does everything! Meanwhile, you want to dig in your heels and opt to do less and less while the woman learns to do more and more. Here's why young women are growing up to be superwomen and young men are growing up unable to leave mommy's sofa, blaming his problems on so called feminism

 

Get over it. Stick a finger (or a wallet) out and make yourself useful too and leave feminism alone.

 

Very typical feminist shaming.

 

Men took care of women while they were bearing and rearing the children. We provided shelter, food, and clothing. Not just for the mother, but for the children also.

 

We provided the raw resources to sustain the family.

 

Feminism has told men "we don't need you". So be it. That means you don't need my money, either. Go out and make your own.

 

And for the record, I own my own 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house out in the country; my mother's couch is nowhere in sight. I also care for my daughter 50% of the time entirely on my own.

 

Why should I stick out my wallet when I simply don't need you for anything?

 

Your entitlement is showing.

[RedRobin]

Very typical feminist shaming.

 

Men took care of women while they were bearing and rearing the children. We provided shelter, food, and clothing. Not just for the mother, but for the children also.

 

We provided the raw resources to sustain the family.

 

Feminism has told men "we don't need you". So be it. That means you don't need my money, either. Go out and make your own.

 

And for the record, I own my own 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house out in the country; my mother's couch is nowhere in sight. I also care for my daughter 50% of the time entirely on my own.

 

Why should I stick out my wallet when I simply don't need you for anything?

 

Your entitlement is showing.

 

 

I don't see it as shaming...

 

 

Feminism hasn't told men anything. Clearly, lol.

 

 

It's men who told men (and women) that they are better than women in everything except housework and childcare... which they use to justify their unequal treatment.

 

 

You won't see ME supporting any kind of entitlement whatsoever. Not male entitlement or female entitlement.

 

 

But I do have to say.... as a woman who has worked her entire life... I don't consider having a job is all that special... I have no problems working. Never have. But if you aren't willing to pull your weight domestically (that would be 50%)... then hire a maid. Hire a nanny.

 

 

there are few things that annoy me more than men who expect me to do those things just because I was born female... almost as much as it likely annoys some men that women expect to have their way paid.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Why should I stick out my wallet when I simply don't need you for anything?

 

Your entitlement is showing.

The post you quoted -- where did it say anything about wanting your money or being entitled to ANYTHING of yours???

 

I don't know one single woman who leaches money off of a man ever. I don't know a single man who would whine about paying for a date because they all know it's 100% their choice to do or not. Maybe it's because I hang around with feminists??

[ManyDissapoint]

 

My question: What burden is the male gender willing to carry for the sake of humanity? Is there anything the male gender can be happy to own as their lot even though terribly inconvenient?

 

Do you genuinely think that men carry less burden in society than women? Do you realize that men work the most dangerous jobs, keep most of the technology and machinery running that society takes for granted, and compose the vast majority of casualties in wars?

[ufo8mycat]

Do you genuinely think that men carry less burden in society than women? Do you realize that men work the most dangerous jobs, keep most of the technology and machinery running that society takes for granted, and compose the vast majority of casualties in wars?

 

From a root cause analysis perspective.

 

Why do you think this is the case?

 

I disagree on the technology component. Women struggle to break through in STEM and it is something that needs to change.

 

I am a feminist and back in the dating game. I have no issue getting dates, paying for dates, arranging dates. I am a curious person by nature so I find i get along with most people pretty well. I am happy to declare my feminist leanings up front. Along with my flag waving lefty tendencies and I really have not had any issues. There are many lovely, respectful men out there. Generally they have no chips on their shoulders or axes to grind.

 

So I am not sure what the complaint is. I know some people struggle. But by an example of N=1, don't blame feminism.

 

To answer the OP. Dating is a case by case basis. It is all the shades of grey that a forum discussion will never capture. I am a feminist. I also own my own business, earn my money, have my own assets and am independent and don't "need" a man for the daily functions of life. I was like this before I got married, while married, and now post marriage.

 

I have no expectations of being paid for - for anything. A couple of years ago I was in a situation where money was REALLY tight. A friend wanted to do dinner and drinks, I told her I would love, love, love to but yeah. Cash. So she paid. We drank sparkling wine, laughed and had a lovely time.

 

It was a generous thing to do.

 

My life is too short to not by my friends drinks or dinner. I don't resent it. I see it as just part of the give and take of life. Reducing dating to a purely transactional nature will see you stay single.

 

Be generous, enjoy the experience. You learn something every time.

Edited December 8, 2015 by ufo8mycat

[Shining One]

The female gender will always carry the burden of pregnancy and childbirth. However accomplished we become, our bodies wll continue to be used to carry life. Wonderful but terribly inconvenient in many ways. For the foreseeable future, this will always be the case. I'm not speaking of individuals now, I'm speaking of the gender. I personally am a year and a half behind my male colleagues for this reason. No one has asked to help fast-track my progress. I'm grafting alongside the men.

 

My question: What burden is the male gender willing to carry for the sake of humanity? Is there anything the male gender can be happy to own as their lot even though terribly inconvenient?

Childbearing is a choice. Yes, it's a choice only available to the female gender, but it's still a choice. Thus, whatever "trade-off" you expect from the male gender should be a choice as well. I personally am not having children (vasectomy), so I should be free from any associated obligations.

Carrying on, for me, feminism is about giving women equal RIGHTS as men. Please look at the women who fought the cause of feminism. They were fighting to have the rights to vote, equal pay as men doing the same job, equal rights to their children, rights to their own bodies and their own property.

 

Feminism doesn't define who pays on dates and who does the dishes.

As defined earlier in the thread, feminism includes social equality.

I personally find it pretty annoying when men complain about paying on dates, mowing the lawn, draining the oil, etc. I must confess that I've only experienced this on LS. The men I know IRL, friends, family and foe have bigger things to worry about. What is it you want to do for your woman or for your family then? Many women are fully capable of doing all these things and they do them well everyday. Don't men (the ones complaining) want to do ANYTHING?

 

You don't want to pay on dates, you don't want to do the dishes, you don't want to clean the house, you don't want a SAHM, you want a woman who works and spends her money, cooks and cleans, stays sexy and hot, does everything! Meanwhile, you want to dig in your heels and opt to do less and less while the woman learns to do more and more. Here's why young women are growing up to be superwomen and young men are growing up unable to leave mommy's sofa, blaming his problems on so called feminism

 

Get over it. Stick a finger (or a wallet) out and make yourself useful too and leave feminism alone.

The issue I have is with pre-defined gender roles. I much prefer roles defined within the scope of a given relationship. If I'm dating a mechanic, why should I change the oil in our cars? If she's a terrible cook, why should we suffer with her terrible cooking when I can cook well? If we both hate mowing the lawn, then we should take turns doing it or use both our incomes to hire someone to do it.

 

I believe the default should be a 50/50 split of each responsibility with negotiated changes (as opposed to defaulting certain responsibilities to a specific gender). Everyone should have a choice as to what they take on.

[ManyDissapoint]

I disagree on the technology component. Women struggle to break through in STEM and it is something that needs to change.

 

Men are for sure the majority in technology fields, although the margins are not like the other categories I mentioned. Why that is the case is another topic.

 

The point was simply that it's incredibly dismissive to say that men should step up to the plate since women are child bearers. Men have been stepping up to the plate since the dawn of time, we just take what they do for granted. We also take for granted a lot of things that women provide for society as well (I'm not talking about child-bearing)

[thefooloftheyear]

My question: What burden is the male gender willing to carry for the sake of humanity? Is there anything the male gender can be happy to own as their lot even though terribly inconvenient?

 

.

 

I could create a list that would tire out anyone...But I cant because I have to work....I have dozens of people, even beyond my family that count on me every single day...

 

We die before you do.....Although many will argue that its by choice...

 

TFY

[Els]

Do you genuinely think that men carry less burden in society than women? Do you realize that men work the most dangerous jobs, keep most of the technology and machinery running that society takes for granted, and compose the vast majority of casualties in wars?

 

Technically speaking, the human race can 'survive' without 99% of the current jobs that anyone holds, as they did not exist in the dawn of the homo sapiens era, yet we are still here. Until such a time as technology is invented that can incubate a baby from conception til viable birth, though (and we are quite far from being capable of that), unfortunately the survival of the human race is quite literally dependent on women carrying babies. I'm talking about mere survival, of course, not quality of life.

 

That being said, it isn't a friggin' competition. The boys vs girls fight is really best left in grade school where it belongs. IMO most reasonable people are grateful for both the men and women in their life.

[clia]

Very typical feminist shaming.

 

Men took care of women while they were bearing and rearing the children. We provided shelter, food, and clothing. Not just for the mother, but for the children also.

 

We provided the raw resources to sustain the family.

 

Feminism has told men "we don't need you". So be it. That means you don't need my money, either. Go out and make your own.

 

And for the record, I own my own 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house out in the country; my mother's couch is nowhere in sight. I also care for my daughter 50% of the time entirely on my own.

 

Why should I stick out my wallet when I simply don't need you for anything?

 

Your entitlement is showing.

 

If you legitimately care for your child 50% of the time, then you are a rare breed. Most divorced dads I know are happy to see their kids once or twice a week while leaving their ex-wives to do the bulk of the child rearing.

 

I honestly don't personally know any stay at home moms. In the couples I know, the women work full time and are also expected to do the bulk of the childcare. The women are the ones getting up in the middle of the night, getting the kids ready for school in the morning, bathing the kids, taking the kids to school, staying home from work when the kid is sick, shuttling the kids to soccer practice, making breakfast, lunch, and dinner for the kids, making the cupcakes (or whatever PC food is allowed) for the kids to take to school on their birthday or for the school bake sale, etc. Oh, and the women are also doing the majority of the cleaning up around the house. In my own relationship, I make the same amount of money as my husband and work full time, and yet somehow I'm still expected to do the bulk of the work around the house. I'm the one loading and unloading the dishwasher, cleaning the floors, cleaning the toilets, washing the sheets, dusting, dropping off and picking off the dry cleaning, grocery shopping, running errands, etc. It doesn't even occur to him to do it. I think a lot of men have that attitude.

 

Obviously I only have my own social and professional circle to rely upon, but I'm not sure where you are getting that women are expecting to sit on their butts all day eating bon bons while their man slaves away at work.

 

If men truly want the equality, and truly want their wives to work full time and bring in the dough, then the men need to step up and start contributing to the care of the children and the house. Frankly, I think most men are happy to let the women do the bulk of the childrearing and housework, and have an appreciation for how much work that truly is, so they aren't sitting in the corner counting their pennies over it.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Do you genuinely think that men carry less burden in society than women? Do you realize that men work the most dangerous jobs, keep most of the technology and machinery running that society takes for granted, and compose the vast majority of casualties in wars?

I do not agree that men carry less burden in society than women do, They don't carry more, either. And never have.

[Timshel]

If you legitimately care for your child 50% of the time, then you are a rare breed. Most divorced dads I know are happy to see their kids once or twice a week while leaving their ex-wives to do the bulk of the child rearing.

 

I honestly don't personally know any stay at home moms. In the couples I know, the women work full time and are also expected to do the bulk of the childcare. The women are the ones getting up in the middle of the night, getting the kids ready for school in the morning, bathing the kids, taking the kids to school, staying home from work when the kid is sick, shuttling the kids to soccer practice, making breakfast, lunch, and dinner for the kids, making the cupcakes (or whatever PC food is allowed) for the kids to take to school on their birthday or for the school bake sale, etc. Oh, and the women are also doing the majority of the cleaning up around the house. In my own relationship, I make the same amount of money as my husband and work full time, and yet somehow I'm still expected to do the bulk of the work around the house. I'm the one loading and unloading the dishwasher, cleaning the floors, cleaning the toilets, washing the sheets, dusting, dropping off and picking off the dry cleaning, grocery shopping, running errands, etc. It doesn't even occur to him to do it. I think a lot of men have that attitude.

 

Obviously I only have my own social and professional circle to rely upon, but I'm not sure where you are getting that women are expecting to sit on their butts all day eating bon bons while their man slaves away at work.

 

If men truly want the equality, and truly want their wives to work full time and bring in the dough, then the men need to step up and start contributing to the care of the children and the house. Frankly, I think most men are happy to let the women do the bulk of the childrearing and housework, and have an appreciation for how much work that truly is, so they aren't sitting in the corner counting their pennies over it.

 

Triple yep. I adore men, in a general sense, I have a son and male friends. I get along well with my ex husband and have a very good relationship with my SO. That said, true words Clia.

[loveflower]

In my own relationship, I make the same amount of money as my husband and work full time, and yet somehow I'm still expected to do the bulk of the work around the house. I'm the one loading and unloading the dishwasher, cleaning the floors, cleaning the toilets, washing the sheets, dusting, dropping off and picking off the dry cleaning, grocery shopping, running errands, etc. It doesn't even occur to him to do it. I think a lot of men have that attitude.

 

no to mention childbearing set women back career wise.

 

I don't understand though, why do you let your h get away with then? he needs to be taught to change his perspective. he needs to take his equal share.

 

I am single. but I don't think I could ever tolerate that kind of uncaring.

[sambolini]

If you legitimately care for your child 50% of the time, then you are a rare breed. Most divorced dads I know are happy to see their kids once or twice a week while leaving their ex-wives to do the bulk of the child rearing.

 

I know many single dads who wish to see their children more often. The person standing in the way of that is the mother. Why? Child support.

 

That's what happened to me in my divorce. It took years of me fighting to get 50/50 time.

 

I honestly don't personally know any stay at home moms. In the couples I know, the women work full time and are also expected to do the bulk of the childcare. The women are the ones getting up in the middle of the night, getting the kids ready for school in the morning, bathing the kids, taking the kids to school, staying home from work when the kid is sick, shuttling the kids to soccer practice, making breakfast, lunch, and dinner for the kids, making the cupcakes (or whatever PC food is allowed) for the kids to take to school on their birthday or for the school bake sale, etc. Oh, and the women are also doing the majority of the cleaning up around the house.

 

I know many dads who do those things, too. I'm one of them. I cooked, cleaned, did grocery shopping, watched the kids, did homework with them. I still do all of those things with my daughter now with absolutely no help from anyone.

 

In my own relationship, I make the same amount of money as my husband and work full time, and yet somehow I'm still expected to do the bulk of the work around the house. I'm the one loading and unloading the dishwasher, cleaning the floors, cleaning the toilets, washing the sheets, dusting, dropping off and picking off the dry cleaning, grocery shopping, running errands, etc. It doesn't even occur to him to do it. I think a lot of men have that attitude.

 

Then why did you choose to give birth to this man's children? You accepted his sperm knowing he was like this.

 

Own that decision.

 

Obviously I only have my own social and professional circle to rely upon, but I'm not sure where you are getting that women are expecting to sit on their butts all day eating bon bons while their man slaves away at work.

 

Nowhere did I say all women do that. My ex wife was like that for a while, but I don't say all women are like that. I simply said I don't date feminists because they are generally entitled.

 

If men truly want the equality, and truly want their wives to work full time and bring in the dough, then the men need to step up and start contributing to the care of the children and the house. Frankly, I think most men are happy to let the women do the bulk of the childrearing and housework, and have an appreciation for how much work that truly is, so they aren't sitting in the corner counting their pennies over it.

 

I agree. Which is why I did those things in my marriage. But it didn't do me any good.

 

On the flip side, men want women to step up and take financial responsibility for themselves and the decisions they make. They also want them to participate. So you gave birth. That doesn't give you a free pass for the rest of your life. Men will be happy to support you, but you have to have something to offer him to make it worthwhile. "I gave birth, so you owe me for the rest of your life" is not an attractive option. YOU need to accept that you are just as responsible for accepting this man's sperm as he is for putting it there.

 

Hence my vasectomy.