sleep talking GF... the truth at last?

[SammySammy]

You don't know me or her. You have no idea what our relationship is like.

 

I have read what you've said though.

 

So have many others. They've tried to help you. They've listened, been patient, offered their perspectives and advice ... to no avail.

 

Now, almost everyone has come to the same conclusion about you and the situation.

 

And you're still not getting it.

 

What does that say about you?

 

You come to this site for advice. In several threads, people give you advice. You refuse to accept it because it doesn't agree with your point of view.

 

Does that say you weren't really looking for advice, but justification?

 

What does it mean when a person refuses to take a critical look at themselves? But, has no shortage of criticism for a person you supposedly love. When a person can't even attempt to see things from another person's point of view. Can't begin to empathize with your girlfriend to understand what she is feeling.

 

*shrugs*

 

smh

[Robert Z]

I must say, I didn't receive anywhere near this level of support when it comes to seeing escorts. This was cited as the biggest problem in seeing women later. In order to be honest I would have to reveal my past and most women wouldn't tolerate it.

 

 

Hmmm... It seems this requirement changes based on sex.

[autumnnight]

I must say, I didn't receive anywhere near this level of support when it comes to seeing escorts. This was cited as the biggest problem in seeing women later. In order to be honest I would have to reveal my past and most women wouldn't tolerate it.

 

 

Hmmm... It seems this requirement changes based on sex.

 

Hmmm....do your escorts know how you feel about women?

 

I believe that if a person wants to know about their partner's past, they should ask. I believe if A)they can't handle the truth or B) the person refuses to answer, then a rational, healthy person has a choice. They can accept the past or lack of knowledge or they can break up.

 

If you have read the myriad of threads where this OP calls his girlfriend who he claims to love all manner of vile names, implying things like she had an incestuous child with her father, blah blah....you'd know this isn't about gender. This is about a boy who badgered his GF, freaked out about what he DID find out, if convinced she is hiding something even bigger, and yet instead of breaking it off with the woman he considers a whore, he is determined to bludgeon her until he get whatever truth he thinks is there.

[beatcuff]

I have a problem. Many on this thread have a similar problem. We believe if we offer advice you will accept it and thank us. Recently there was another thread similar to this. I gave it my best, failed and got frustrated. I expect the same here. I should not even waste my time. That is my problem not yours.

 

You are concerned with the lack of disclosure in certain areas of the past for your SO. But that is similarly YOUR problem. You have continually blame shifted onto her (excuse me for not quoting as there are numerous examples) that it is her problem for the lack of disclosure. Oh sorry you said you wanted honestly. Well you want it but do not really give it. You say you do, you strive for it but you don’t and neither do I/we: “you are fat”, “your sister is cuter than you”, “I would XXXX you best friend”. Need I go on? We love the idea, but not the reality. Further you want ‘honestly’ but do not offer an environment to allow it.

 

The breaking point for me is somewhere between 50 and 500.

 

Is this really a relationship in which she can be honest?

Carrie mentioned it but I have a similar story. During my college years I remember very little (drinking/drugs). How bad? For about 5 years after I graduated I had to keep my diploma on the nightstand because I would wake up ‘petrified’ about the forgotten exam that day. Worse, I have a VERY good memory. I can rattle off, with vivid detail, events before or after these years. So attempting to discuss this period will make me look --- foolish, a liar, an idiot. AND I am not really certain that some of the events I think happened, really did. I am hopeful some did not.

 

So your SO, like myself --- if we start down that path… You demand of her was it 10? 30? 1,000? Maybe she really does not know. Your lack of understanding will show: “how can you not know”. While you may not be able to understand how this can be possible, I for one can (back to my college years). Further maybe she is too embarrassed, humiliated or hurt to talk about it. I have been with my W for nearly 30 years. There are certain things I will NEVER disclose. I have moved past it. I do not want to relive it. I have accepted it, forgiven myself and want to look FORWARD. Maybe she is doing the same.

 

BUT WHATEVER her reason that is hers and hers alone. You need to accept she will (more than likely) NEVER disclose it. If that is not acceptable, as numerous persons have stated, your ONLY recourse is to leave. Yet you do not even acknowledge that option.

 

IMO you want to know so you can ‘fix her’. That is why you are so desperate to know. Which is why this is your problem not hers. The sad part is you will ignore this, maybe laugh it off and continue to ‘hit your head against the wall’ until one day SHE will leave you. Because she is looking forward and you are stuck in the past.

 

 

BTW you really need to ‘fix’ this (not her, you) for as you move onto your next relationships the baggage for your prospective mates will increase.

[deadelvis]

I also have done a lot of drugs and heavy drinking in my life. Much of my life is a blur. While I do understand what you are saying and agree with much of it, there are a few really obvious things I have to point out. While much of my life is a blur and I've heard plenty of stories about myself that I have no memory of, the general events of my life are still fairly clear to me. The details might be fuzzy but the bigger picture is clear. When you talk about "was it 10 or 20 or 1000" I realize you are kidding. I have probably forgotten a few of the people I've had sex with, however I'm pretty certain that if I had worked as a prostitute, a porn star or participated in orgies and gangbangs those things would not be easily forgotten. I may have had sex with 35 women, or maybe it was 40. But I can tell you for sure its not 1000 Johns who picked me up on the corner. Your point is semi valid, but it's pretty silly to suggest you could forget things like working as a prostitute. I was a hard drug addict and alcoholic for over ten years. The details might be fuzzy but the bigger picture is clear.

As for being ashamed and humiliated by her actions in the past. I'm sure she is. I'm not exactly proud of plenty of things I've done, but that's the thing about having a partner, you can confide things in each other that you would never tell other people. Or at least in a healthy relationship there would be no secrets.

And as for leaving the past behind us... It's not that easy. We live in a small town and all the guys from her past are constantly around us, so even if she never tells me the truth about her life, I'm sure it won't be long before the rumors start emerging and the truth comes out. I would certainly prefer to hear the truth from her than find out from a stranger. And even if we leave this town and move to LA she still hangs out with all the people from her "dark past" so it's not really like the past will ever really just fade away.

I acknowledge that many people consider a persons sexual history to be nobodies business be their own. I personally don't believe that, however I understand it. But there is a point that needs to be made regarding the importance of actually knowing the person you are in a relationship with. I don't care about the details of her sex life. But I think I deserve to know what type of a person she was in the past. The details might be fuzzy but the bigger picture is clear. I really don't think it's going to be a good situation when I find out the truth from someone else, especially after she told me she was being honest and straightforward about her history. And I guess overall I think it's pretty messed up to present yourself and your life story in a false light. Theres a big difference between lying on a job application and painting yourself to be something you aren't to your long term partner. And if you think it's ok to lie about the past, then where does the line get drawn? I could fabricate a completely false story about my life that makes me into some kind of mother Teresa instead of the pathetic drug addict I really was. But why would I want someone to love me for something I'm not?

It's not about "fixing" anyone. It's about knowing the person you are in a relationship with. And that includes the 30 years of her life before we dated.

Edited July 31, 2015 by deadelvis

[beatcuff]

OP, this quote, while you think supports your case in fact undermines it and supports mine:

 

The details might be fuzzy but the bigger picture is clear.

 

you are projecting, again. so you drank, did some drugs but was always at least vaguely aware. therefore you believe that your SO should as well, avoiding my lack of memory. your experience does not mean that all have a similar experience. try this: you do NOT get seasick. you ask your friends and family, they do not either. does that mean it does not exist? have you ever looked at the list of side effects on medication (note: some are experienced by 1% of the population, yet it is listed).

 

BTW if this is such a small town, you would have already heard 'everything' when you starting dating her. or why not interview everyone.

[Lois_Griffin]

Sure. I agree... but

 

Don't you think doing gangbangs, or having been a porn star or prostitute is something a partner deserves to know about before getting seriously involved?

If she was a sex worker in her past, you can probably assume she's done just about everything imaginable. Does it really matter if that included gangbangs or going to Furry conventions? I mean, she is what she IS.

[autumnnight]

If she was a sex worker in her past, you can probably assume she's done just about everything imaginable. Does it really matter if that included gangbangs or going to Furry conventions? I mean, she is what she IS.

 

Or....she was what she WAS. But then again, some people don't care about those nuances....

[serial muse]

But I just can't walk away based on a suspicion. I need real proof that she's consistently lying before I can break up with her. I would be a fool to leave someone based on a hunch.

 

But what seems abundantly clear at this point, to everyone who's responded to your threads, is that you will never be satisfied with what she tells you. You have created a lose-lose situation for yourself, and for her.

 

There are only two possible scenarios here:

1. She continues not to tell you any new deep dark secrets. You continue to be convinced there is one, and that she is lying to you. --> DEALBREAKER

2. She tells you a deep, dark secret that is a dealbreaker for you (one of the things you listed somewhere upthread, that you suggested could be the only things she could be hiding at this point). It's a dealbreaker. --> DEALBREAKER

 

So this is what people are trying to tell you: There is no scenario here in which you guys stay together. Ergo, why not just leave?

 

You don't actually need a concrete example of a lie or a transgression or whatever to leave. All you need is to know that you're incompatible. If she is lying to you about something she knows you'll hate and want to break up with her over, the lying is a dealbreaker anyway. If she tells you what you say you need to hear, that's a dealbreaker too.

 

If she is hiding something (a big IF), then she probably instinctively knows that this is a lose-lose situation, as anyone would who isn't in the throes of obsession. Midnight was absolutely correct when he said this:

 

why give a person a stick to beat you with?

 

You say that it wouldn't be a dealbreaker if she just slept with one guy as an escort, as opposed to thousands. I'm not sure where the dealbreaker/not dealbreaker threshold actually is for you, and I doubt you know, either. But one thing is clear: You won't believe her saying anything less than something that is actually too much for you to bear. Anything less from her will seem as a lie to you. So what is the point?????

 

There's nothing useful or good for anybody to be gained from sticking this out. I'm not sure why you're so stuck on the idea that she has to give you the fodder for dumping her before you can do so. You're 33 years old. You can break up with someone who isn't compatible with you. She isn't, whether because of her past or because you have different ideals about how much honesty is necessary in a relationship.

 

Why are you being so stubborn about staying with someone you don't respect? This isn't love.

Edited August 3, 2015 by serial muse

[crederer]

Bro, I am a heavy sleep talker and I say some **** that makes absolute zero sense in terms related to my life.

 

I'd be mad too if my partner brought up something like that in therapy. As if my dreams had anything to do at all with secrets I'm keeping or my intentions.

[Davey L]

It is OK to lie to keep something private that is none of the other person's business.

 

Accept that she has a past that she is not comfortable telling you at the moment, or move on.

[BluEyeL]

What Elaine said. In spades.

 

Also, I am someone who talks in my sleep and what happens in one's sleep rarely reflects reality! The dream state is altered and while it may reflect aspects of reality, it twisted and distorted so you can't take ANYTHING from someone talking in their sleep as truth.

 

Heck, my drivels last night involved writing an opera libretto based on the movie Hunt For Red October. Should my husband be concerned that I'm going to give up all of my daily efforts to become an opera composer!?!?! :rolleyes:

 

Right. I remember when I we were small, my 5 years old sister was sleep talking and she was saying "grandma knows I am a pig! " lol

[deadelvis]

It is OK to lie to keep something private that is none of the other person's business.

 

Accept that she has a past that she is not comfortable telling you at the moment, or move on.

 

Well that depends entirely on what you are keeping private. Don't you think?

[deadelvis]

And honestly I'm not sure I agree with that statement at all. Lying about things to hide your own secrets? Where does the line get drawn? I slept with your a midget when I was drunk once? I slept with a midget last night? I killed a midget once? I killed a midget last night? Who decides what is ok to lie about? Seems like a pretty slippery slope.

 

I think I'll stick to honesty

[jbrent890]

I never understood the mindset that people have that it is ok to keep secrets in long term relationships. I'm not going to say that I am the epitome of the perfect husband, but the one thing I have never done to my wife is lie to her or gaslight by telling her something is none of her business. My wife knows everything about me because I felt she deserved to know the type of person she said "I do" to. She knows the good, the bad, and the horrible. She knows about my sexual history, how I used to dog women, that I took steroids when preparing for competitions. Why, because she asked. Do I think spouses should voluntarily spill this information, no. But if prompted, they should be honest. If the topics make them feel uncomfortable, then say so. Problems in marriages aren't resolved by keeping secrets and saying its none of your business. They are resolved by properly communicating. Do I know about my wife's sexual history? Somewhat. Personally, I have never opened that can of worms for any woman that I have dated. One, I know it does make them uncomfortable. And two, for my own sanity. However, if I were the type of individual who would want to know, I can trust the fact that my wife would not lie about it. I'm sure plenty of people on this forum will disagree. But I really think that this mindset that it is okay to keep secrets is contributing to so many relationships failing.

[Satu]

I once dreamt I was a shoe.