sleep talking GF... the truth at last?

[autumnnight]

But neither of those events, assault or rape, have even the slightest similarity to performing sexual acts willingly

 

I am not talking excuses here, but there are scores and scores of clinical studies that make it clear that one CAN have bearing on the other. Many women go through periods of promiscuity and risky sexual behavior in the wake of being raped or molested. So, in a sense, insisting on digging through the gory details of every sexual exploit, you may in fact be triggering trauma from the past.

[deadelvis]

Not in our relationship. We've talked about her rapes, childhood trauma and abuse. It's a much different conversation than talking about her going to sex parties and having threesomes as an adult. There is probably a link between sexual abuse and promiscuity, but having been raped at 16 is not even in the same conversation as having pulled a threeway in your 20's. Not every sexual act we participate in can be dismissed because of something that happened to us as a child. When I took two women home from the bar and spent all night having sex with both of them did I do it because I was molested as a child? No. I was an adult who made the decision to participate in that sexual encounter. Apples and oranges people.

 

I've done threesomes on a number of occasions. I think around 7 or 8 times I've had sex with two women at the same time. Do I regret it? No. Would I willingly hide that information from my partner? No. Do I think she deserves to know that before choosing to get involved in a relationship with me? Yes. For one woman I dated it was a deal breaker. I told her about the threesomes and she walked away. I could have lied about it to keep her around, but I'm not a lying piece of ****.

Edited July 30, 2015 by deadelvis

[autumnnight]

Not in our relationship. We've talked about her rapes, childhood trauma and abuse. It's a much different conversation than talking about her going to sex parties and having threesomes as an adult. There is probably a link between sexual abuse and promiscuity, but having been raped at 16 is not even in the same conversation as having pulled a threeway in your 20's. Not every sexual act we participate in can be dismissed because of something that happened to us as a child. When I took two women home from the bar and spent all night having sex with both of them did I do it because I was molested as a child? No. I was an adult who made the decision to participate in that sexual encounter. Apples and oranges people.

 

I've done threesomes on a number of occasions. I think around 7 or 8 times I've had sex with two women at the same time. Do I regret it? No. Would I willingly hide that information from my partner? No. Do I think she deserves to know that before choosing to get involved in a relationship with me? Yes. For one woman I dated it was a deal breaker. I told her about the threesomes and she walked away. I could have lied about it to keep her around, but I'm not a lying piece of ****.

 

You're not getting it, so I'll try again. Part of the REASON she made those bad choices could have been because of the trauma. So yes, whether you want to believe it or not, scores of experts who know more than you agree that the two CAN be connected.

 

Bottom line, you don;t care. You just want your vindication and pound of flesh.

[CarrieT]

You're not getting it, so I'll try again. Part of the REASON she made those bad choices could have been because of the trauma. So yes, whether you want to believe it or not, scores of experts who know more than you agree that the two CAN be connected.

^. ^. ^ EXACTLY!!!! ^. ^. ^

 

I kept trying to explain it with myself as an example, and this hones it in more easily.

 

I know for a fact that my 13th to 16th years are a blank to me. When I got married (at the age of 20), I found out that during those years, I was given Valium. Now why I was given valium for three of my adolescence remains a mystery.

 

But starting in my 18th year, I became very promiscuous - as well as suicidal. I can only guess that the two are related, but I haven't done the memory regression to determine the correlation.

 

You just want your vindication and pound of flesh.

I just thank goodness I don't have someone in my life that requires ALL THE F*CKING TRUTH to know everything...

 

OP, is there any comprehension in your brain how traumatic it might be to have to relive the reasons behind our bad choices?

[deadelvis]

You're not getting it, so I'll try again. Part of the REASON she made those bad choices could have been because of the trauma. So yes, whether you want to believe it or not, scores of experts who know more than you agree that the two CAN be connected.

 

Bottom line, you don;t care. You just want your vindication and pound of flesh.

 

You are the one not getting it. "Bad choices" is another loaded phrase that tries to strip accountability away from the actions of the individual. Right and wrong are pretty subjective terms when talking about our sexual history. Is it wrong to have a threesome? To participate in an orgy? Who cares? Who decides whats right or wrong regarding sexual choices made by willing adults? The issue is not about casting judgement for the free choices made by consenting adults. The issue is lying to your partner about those choices. A partner has a right to know. Period. Full stop. Is CarrieT "immoral" for the things she's done? Who gets to decide? Those were her choices to live with, for better or worse. And now after sharing her history with her partner, it's up to him to decide if he wants to be in a relationship with her. However, if she hides her history from her partner... that is immoral.

[deadelvis]

^. ^. ^ EXACTLY!!!! ^. ^. ^

 

I kept trying to explain it with myself as an example, and this hones it in more easily.

 

I know for a fact that my 13th to 16th years are a blank to me. When I got married (at the age of 20), I found out that during those years, I was given Valium. Now why I was given valium for three of my adolescence remains a mystery.

 

But starting in my 18th year, I became very promiscuous - as well as suicidal. I can only guess that the two are related, but I haven't done the memory regression to determine the correlation.

 

 

I just thank goodness I don't have someone in my life that requires ALL THE F*CKING TRUTH to know everything...

 

OP, is there any comprehension in your brain how traumatic it might be to have to relive the reasons behind our bad choices?

 

Again. You are talking about teenage years. We all went through rough teen years. You are a 50 year old woman. Do you really think what you experienced as a teenager can be used to explain/justify/dismiss your actions during the following 30 years of sexual activity? Take some accountability. Sex is fun. Wild kinky sex is even more fun. Blaming the past 30 years of sexual exploration on three years of high school seems like a stretch. I blacked out two years from 15-17 because I was on a lot of drugs. You don't see me blaming every questionable decision in my life on some crap that I went through in high school.

[deadelvis]

But I feel like the issue is again being distorted. It's not about the who, what or why we did the things we've done in our lives. It's about being honest with our partner and not hiding our past. A partner has the right to know, and they have the right to decide if they are willing to continue forward with the relationship once that information has been disclosed. Everyone has dealbreakers. (most include no rapists or murderers) Mine are pretty forgiving (no AIDS, preferably no ex-hookers or porn stars, but that is negotiable) but to withhold that information is a major violation of the "rules".

[CarrieT]

Do you really think what you experienced as a teenager can be used to explain/justify/dismiss your actions during the following 30 years of sexual activity?

Yes, absolutely.

 

Had I never been subjected to the depraved acts that I was as a teenager, I doubt I would have been as promiscuous as I turned out.

 

Sex is fun. Wild kinky sex is even more fun.

Guess what: For victims of abuse, sex is not always fun. There are so many abuse victims who end up in the world of prostitution because that form of subjugation is all they know. I can't tell you how often I ended up regretting the kinky sex I subjected myself to in searching for hidden answers to WHY I was the way I was.

 

This is what you don't seem to understand. For abuse victims, sex is not always fun. I had years of therapy to figure this out for me. I know that as an abused teen, my early psychology was imprinted with only ever being viewed as a sexual being. And to want the acceptance of society (men and/or women), I thought that my only value in life was as a sexual being; not as a person, an artist, a writer, a HUMAN.

 

For so many years, I thought I only had two choices: Kill myself (because who could ever love anyone such as me), or offer sex because - at least that way - somebody would want me for something...

 

And if I had to relate my entire sexual history for some guy because of his insecurities, it would make me want to kill myself all over again.

 

I. Am. Serious.

[deadelvis]

Did you tell your partner you've been with 300-500 people and had sex with up to 50 men at once? Do you think he deserves to know that?

 

I think he has a right to know that. It has nothing to do with insecurities. It's just a question of honesty.

[Timshel]

But I feel like the issue is again being distorted. It's not about the who, what or why we did the things we've done in our lives. It's about being honest with our partner and not hiding our past. A partner has the right to know, and they have the right to decide if they are willing to continue forward with the relationship once that information has been disclosed. Everyone has dealbreakers. (most include no rapists or murderers) Mine are pretty forgiving (no AIDS, preferably no ex-hookers or porn stars, but that is negotiable) but to withhold that information is a major violation of the "rules".

 

To be clear, are you saying that your gf is cognizant/lucid regarding every detail of her past but is intentionally withholding information from you?

 

If this is the case and you find this unacceptable, then I would assume your relationship should be terminated. You have your answer.

 

Are you trying to shame/manipulate and force information from her that she is either not able to or willing to share?

 

What is the agenda deadelvis?

[mrldii]

Oh, FFS. OP, you are absolutely correct...you have a 100% irrefutable right to be in this relationship with this woman AND you have a 100% irrefutable right to know every single thing about her, whether she wants to share it or not.

 

You simply want to know how to MAKE her tell you the truth, since she won't do it voluntarily.

 

Become a CIA agent and employ whatever methods they've now adopted to break down other human beings since the closing of Guantanamo Bay to get them to spill all their deep, dark secrets which also pose a threat to national security.

 

There really IS no other *legal* way to get what it is YOU want, which is the absolute and completely unfettered truth about her past AND the continued relationship with her, 100% on YOUR terms.

 

 

 

 

Seriously, OP, if you are a normal, healthy, well-adjusted adult who wants a normal, healthy, well-adjusted relationship, you're either going to have to terminate this relationship due to its lack of candor and honesty

 

OR

 

you're going to have to accept that this is the one flaw in an otherwise 'perfect woman and perfect relationship' and simply

 

get over - and OFF - it!!!

 

 

[Timshel]

Did you tell your partner you've been with 300-500 people and had sex with up to 50 men at once? Do you think he deserves to know that?

 

I think he has a right to know that. It has nothing to do with insecurities. It's just a question of honesty.

 

 

Honestly, this line of questioning is pointless and somewhat disturbing. There is something that is trying to be communicated to you that you are failing to grasp.

 

Instead of becoming belligerent, perhaps concede a failure to understand and stand down to some humility in that regard.

[deadelvis]

To be clear, are you saying that your gf is cognizant/lucid regarding every detail of her past but is intentionally withholding information from you?

 

If this is the case and you find this unacceptable, then I would assume your relationship should be terminated. You have your answer.

 

Are you trying to shame/manipulate and force information from her that she is either not able to or willing to share?

 

What is the agenda deadelvis?

 

The agenda is simple. I want to know who I'm getting involved with before we take this relationship to the next level. If she had a sexual history like CarrieT I don't think I would want to proceed with the relationship. Not saying there's anything wrong with CarrieT, but I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with a partner who used to have sex with 50 men at once. That's one of my personal boundaries. But I don't want to proceed with the false notion that she had a "normal" sexual history, and then find out later that she was lying about everything and she's been with 500 men, 50 at time like CarrieT.

[deadelvis]

Honestly, this line of questioning is pointless and somewhat disturbing. There is something that is trying to be communicated to you that you are failing to grasp.

 

Instead of becoming belligerent, perhaps concede a failure to understand and stand down to some humility in that regard.

 

What exactly am I failing to grasp?

 

The disagreement I see is this:

 

I think a partner deserves to know what type of sexual history their partner has, and determine if they are willing to be involved with someone based on that information. I'm not talking about details. I'm talking about the big picture. Were you a hooker? Did you do orgies with 50 men every weekend? Those types of disclosures are not things that should be hidden from a partner.

 

Everyone else seems to think it's none of your partners business what you did in the past. I think that's ridiculous. Where do you draw the line? What if I just got released from prison for a horrible crime? Doesn't she deserve to know? Where is the line drawn?

[CarrieT]

Did you tell your partner you've been with 300-500 people and had sex with up to 50 men at once? Do you think he deserves to know that?

I have told some partners. Not all. My current husband knows, yes. He also knows the context in which it happened.

 

You seem to know your GF has a checkered past. Would it make a difference to you if the number between 300 or 500? 30 or 50?

 

Where is the breaking point?

[CarrieT]

=

I think a partner deserves to know what type of sexual history their partner has, and determine if they are willing to be involved with someone based on that information. I'm not talking about details.

But you HAVE been talking details!

 

You know your GF has a past. So let her go!

[deadelvis]

I have told some partners. Not all. My current husband knows, yes. He also knows the context in which it happened.

 

You seem to know your GF has a checkered past. Would it make a difference to you if the number between 300 or 500? 30 or 50?

 

Where is the breaking point?

 

The breaking point for me is somewhere between 50 and 500.

 

Checkered past can mean a lot of things

 

"I worked as an escort for a month when I was flat broke but only had sex with one customer"

 

vs.

 

"I was a hooker for 10 years and I've had sex with thousands of men"

 

Those are worlds apart. The first sentence is not a dealbreaker. The second sentence is. I think I have a right to know where her past fits on the spectrum.

[elaine567]

I was not sexually abused and have had a fairly normal, some here might say a pretty boring sex life, but even I, with my relatively few liaisons compared to many, would struggle to remember all the "gory details", deadelvis seems to continually want from his gf.

 

Anyone questioning me at length, holding me to account, accusing me of lying and refusing to believe what I said, would have to be shown the door pretty quick.

There is a limit to what anyone can tolerate.

Only his poor gf is no doubt already damaged enough, and may not have the self esteem and self belief, to tell him to shut up or put up.

[deadelvis]

 

you're going to have to accept that this is the one flaw in an otherwise 'perfect woman and perfect relationship' and simply

 

get over - and OFF - it!!!

 

 

 

You have to accept that your partner is withholding major secrets about her life and continue forward as though everything is okay... That is not healthy or fair.

[autumnnight]

You are the one not getting it. "Bad choices" is another loaded phrase that tries to strip accountability away from the actions of the individual. Right and wrong are pretty subjective terms when talking about our sexual history. Is it wrong to have a threesome? To participate in an orgy? Who cares? Who decides whats right or wrong regarding sexual choices made by willing adults? The issue is not about casting judgement for the free choices made by consenting adults. The issue is lying to your partner about those choices. A partner has a right to know. Period. Full stop. Is CarrieT "immoral" for the things she's done? Who gets to decide? Those were her choices to live with, for better or worse. And now after sharing her history with her partner, it's up to him to decide if he wants to be in a relationship with her. However, if she hides her history from her partner... that is immoral.

 

You are either intentionally obtuse or just not very bright. I am not excusing choices, including the choice to hide things. My only point was that sexual trauma can cause one to act out, and discussing sexual history that may have been a response to trauma can be triggering.

 

It has nothing to do with excusing or not excusing.

 

Actually, I was attempting to explain it so that you might feel some empathy and compassion. I should have known better.

[deadelvis]

I was not sexually abused and have had a fairly normal, some here might say a pretty boring sex life, but even I, with my relatively few liaisons compared to many, would struggle to remember all the "gory details", deadelvis seems to continually want from his gf.

 

Anyone questioning me at length, holding me to account, accusing me of lying and refusing to believe what I said, would have to be shown the door pretty quick.

There is a limit to what anyone can tolerate.

Only his poor gf is no doubt already damaged enough, and may not have the self esteem and self belief, to tell him to shut up or put up.

 

I think it's odd how everyone thinks I'm quizzing her for the details. I'm not asking for positions, dick sizes or a numerical list. I'm asking for the "big picture".... Were you a hooker? a porn star? did you do gangbangs with 50 men at a time?

 

Those are hardly "details"

[CarrieT]

I think it's odd how everyone thinks I'm quizzing her for the details. I'm not asking for positions, dick sizes or a numerical list. I'm asking for the "big picture".... Were you a hooker? a porn star? did you do gangbangs with 50 men at a time?

 

Those are hardly "details"

 

And did my explanation that she MAY NOT REMEMBER - or is UNABLE TO RELIVE WHAT OCCURRED - mean anything to you?

[deadelvis]

To be clear, are you saying that your gf is cognizant/lucid regarding every detail of her past but is intentionally withholding information from you?

 

Yes. Nobody rememebers every detail, but she certainly wouldn't have forgotten things like being a sex worker.

 

If this is the case and you find this unacceptable, then I would assume your relationship should be terminated. You have your answer.

 

Are you trying to shame/manipulate and force information from her that she is either not able to or willing to share?

 

Nope. Just hoping for the truth before we're married with children and her pimp shows up at our door.

 

What is the agenda deadelvis?

 

My agenda at this point is to get one single person on this forum to agree that you should share your sexual history with your partner, especially anything out of the ordinary like prostitution, working in porn or doing orgies.

[autumnnight]

Nope. Just hoping for the truth before we're married with children and her pimp shows up at our door.

 

Does she know you say things like this?

 

How disgusting.

 

Do you believe that something she may or may not be doing entitles you to say things like this?

[CarrieT]

My agenda at this point is to get one single person on this forum to agree that you should share your sexual history with your partner, especially anything out of the ordinary like prostitution, working in porn or doing orgies.

And after three separate threads, since no one has done so, is that not a sign that what you are asking for is unreasonable?