sleep talking GF... the truth at last?

[Clarence_Boddicker]

How many people have to tell you to leave her before you get it? Yes you love her, but she'll never be the right girl for you. Unless you spend your time working on a time machine so she can fix her past for you or you can spy on her then, you're wasting your time. Do you enjoy the misery?

[CarrieT]

I will let it go the day she finally tells me the truth

 

Oh, dear god... Please let this poor, hapless girl go. She doesn't deserve to live under the scrutiny you are subjecting her to.

[Methodical]

OP, you keep asking the same question over-and-over. You already have a very lengthy thread about your issues with your GF's past.

 

The answers are the same so why are you asking again?

 

My thoughts exactly!

 

Are you still with her out of stubbornness to "win" this? Please don't respond that you love her. You don't. You might desire her and want someone in your life, but love doesn't act like this.

 

Agree 1000X!!

 

At this point, this is a toxic obsession.

[deadelvis]

I think you get the wrong idea. If you could observe our relationship it would be pretty clear which one of us is being manipulated. There have been many red flags that she's not who she seems to be. She has some major secrets. She's addicted to pain killers, has mental and physical health issues etc. Every day I'm starting to feel like I'm in a bad movie where the man marries a sweet beautiful woman who he thinks is a normal girl with a bit of a checkered past. Till suddenly everything unravels and he finds out she is a drug addicted prostitute on the run. It's not like I'm badgering her about insignificant details of her sexual history. The bottom line is everything about this woman gives me a gut feeling that she's not the person she tells me she is. And at this point I'm trying to protect myself. Half the time I'm expecting a pimp to step out of the alley and drag her away from me.

[CarrieT]

Then protect yourself by moving on.

 

You *know* the relationship is not going to last. Why drag it on?

[Methodical]

The bottom line is everything about this woman gives me a gut feeling that she's not the person she tells me she is. And at this point I'm trying to protect myself. Half the time I'm expecting a pimp to step out of the alley and drag her away from me.

 

Again, if she is that bad, LEAVE!! If you believe she is someone other than who she appears to be, LEAVE. If you feel you are being manipulated, LEAVE. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to stay in a relationship with an untrustworthy person. Why do you want to subject yourself to feeling like you might become a martyr due to her past...and present actions?

 

You want people to feel sorry for you, to side with you, to blow wind in your sail. Due to the many, many posts you have made belittling this woman, I doubt you are going to get any sympathy because you are chosing to remain in a toxic environment, and you are dragging this woman through the mud while you do so.

[elaine567]

I think you get the wrong idea. If you could observe our relationship it would be pretty clear which one of us is being manipulated. There have been many red flags that she's not who she seems to be. She has some major secrets. She's addicted to pain killers, has mental and physical health issues etc. Every day I'm starting to feel like I'm in a bad movie where the man marries a sweet beautiful woman who he thinks is a normal girl with a bit of a checkered past. Till suddenly everything unravels and he finds out she is a drug addicted prostitute on the run. It's not like I'm badgering her about insignificant details of her sexual history. The bottom line is everything about this woman gives me a gut feeling that she's not the person she tells me she is. And at this point I'm trying to protect myself. Half the time I'm expecting a pimp to step out of the alley and drag her away from me.

 

What is wrong with you?

Why would you continue to put up with this?

Most would run at the mere mention of child sex abuse, rape x2, drug addiction, domestic abuse, promiscuity, prostitution, severe ongoing mental illness... without them all being mixed up in the one person.

Why aren't you in personal survival mode and leaving forthwith?

 

She is a total mess. I suggest if you do indeed love her, which is no doubt why you are staying, she does not need the added stress of your obsession and continual interrogation of her past on top of everything else. It doesn't sound much like love to me.

[PrettyEmily77]

I think you get the wrong idea. If you could observe our relationship it would be pretty clear which one of us is being manipulated. There have been many red flags that she's not who she seems to be. She has some major secrets. She's addicted to pain killers, has mental and physical health issues etc. Every day I'm starting to feel like I'm in a bad movie where the man marries a sweet beautiful woman who he thinks is a normal girl with a bit of a checkered past. Till suddenly everything unravels and he finds out she is a drug addicted prostitute on the run. It's not like I'm badgering her about insignificant details of her sexual history. The bottom line is everything about this woman gives me a gut feeling that she's not the person she tells me she is. And at this point I'm trying to protect myself. Half the time I'm expecting a pimp to step out of the alley and drag her away from me.

 

Sorry man, but this post makes no sense at all - if you already know she's manipulating you in this R, why are you still in it, unless you enjoy been manipulated?? Why are you inflicting her and yourself such a level of misery? You do know healthy Rs don't work that way, right? Why would you purposefully stay in an unhealthy R when you have a choice not to?

 

 

You will never get a 'truth' you'll be satisfied, probs because you don't even know what you're looking for yourself.

[deadelvis]

Well I can't just leave her because because I have a gut feeling she's hiding the truth about her life. Even if she does have some dark secrets I'm not sure it would change anything between us, but it's hard to say. "Dark secrets" could be a lot of different things. And that's the problem. You can't get over something until you know what you're getting over. And always wondering who the person in your bed really is leaves a dark cloud hanging over the relationship.

[mrldii]

...Every day I'm starting to feel like I'm in a bad movie where the man marries a sweet beautiful woman who he thinks is a normal girl with a bit of a checkered past. Till suddenly everything unravels and he finds out she is a drug addicted prostitute on the run...

 

If you truly feel this way, you should turn off the projector.

[deadelvis]

But I've stopped asking about her life. It felt like everything she told me was a lie anyway so I didn't see much point in asking anymore questions. I don't think she will ever volunteer the truth on her own, so I guess it's just a matter of waiting till the truth emerges. And in my experience... the truth usually comes out after long enough. The past never stays buried.

[autumnnight]

But I've stopped asking about her life. It felt like everything she told me was a lie anyway so I didn't see much point in asking anymore questions. I don't think she will ever volunteer the truth on her own, so I guess it's just a matter of waiting till the truth emerges. And in my experience... the truth usually comes out after long enough. The past never stays buried.

 

This is one of the most unhealthy, unbalanced reasons for staying in a relationship I have ever heard.

[CarrieT]

The past never stays buried.

Of course it does.

 

You are deluded if you believe otherwise and if you are staying just to find out the truth.

[understand50]

I think you get the wrong idea. If you could observe our relationship it would be pretty clear which one of us is being manipulated. There have been many red flags that she's not who she seems to be. She has some major secrets. She's addicted to pain killers, has mental and physical health issues etc. Every day I'm starting to feel like I'm in a bad movie where the man marries a sweet beautiful woman who he thinks is a normal girl with a bit of a checkered past. Till suddenly everything unravels and he finds out she is a drug addicted prostitute on the run. It's not like I'm badgering her about insignificant details of her sexual history. The bottom line is everything about this woman gives me a gut feeling that she's not the person she tells me she is. And at this point I'm trying to protect myself. Half the time I'm expecting a pimp to step out of the alley and drag her away from me.

 

Deadelvis,

 

OK, let's try a thought experiment.

 

Idea, "what would I do in your shoes, with your SO"

 

Let's say that I was available and so was she, we get together and clicked. We get a relationship going, move in with each other, thinking of marriage.

 

At this point, it is probable that I know some of her past, but I am going to marry her, so what do I want to know, and what am I entitled to know?

 

Going back to my statement, that "I am all for knowing a spouse's past sexually history, when and only when, it impacts the present relationship" My questions to her would be, "Dear, is there anything that you have done, that may come back to hurt us in the present?"

 

I would want to know, the following:

 

1) Ever been arrested? DUI? So fourth.

 

2) If 1, did you go to jail, prison? Did that get cleaned up?

 

3) Were you ever married? LTR? Do not need the details, just that you have ex's

 

4) Any children?

 

5) How are your fiances? Debts we need to work on?

 

I would then ask, that if she meets, a person she was intimate with, she let me know, so "WE" can decide how to handle it, or if it needs to be.

 

END experiment.

 

This is all I would ask. I would only go back to her past if it was impacting our relationship. I would also get her into IC, but I would work to let her know I was a safe, non judgmental, loving person she could, if she wanted to, open up to.

 

The paradox you have set up, if that you want to know everything, and when she tells you, you always think there is more. You are not the safe, loving person she can open up to. Until you reach this place, yourself, she is going to "keep" her past from you, and rightly so. You want to move on, find out why this bothers you. Find if you can accept your SO past, and HELP her.

 

Only by working to put your needs and fears aside, will she get to the point that she can trust you to be open. You should have compassion for her past, I am sure all she wants is to put it past her and have a loving, trusting relationship.

 

If you, deep down, can not do this, you need to let her go.

 

Lastly, if some "pimp stepped out of a alley and dragged my wife away from me." The pimp would be dead, or wish he was.

 

I wish and hope that you both find peace and hope.

[deadelvis]

Of course it does.

 

You are deluded if you believe otherwise and if you are staying just to find out the truth.

 

The past never stays buried. Maybe if you move to the opposite side of the country... but in my experience... the things you do will come back to haunt you. I'm forever reminded of who I used to be, the mistakes I've made, people I lost, people I hurt. It never goes away. I can't walk down the street without running into 3 people I know. The past never goes away. You can bury it as deep as you want, but in the end the truth will emerge.

[Methodical]

Well I can't just leave her because because I have a gut feeling she's hiding the truth about her life.[/Quote]

 

There is a reason she is hiding the truth, if in fact she is. You are going on a gut feeling... That doesn't make your thoughts true. I'm not saying to ignore your gut, but in your case, you have an unhealthy obsession to know every minute detail of this woman's past and she doesn't owe you that discretion.

 

Even if she does have some dark secrets I'm not sure it would change anything between us, but it's hard to say.[/Quote]

 

Things aren't good between you now and if disclosure wouldn't make it better, AND IT WON'T AS YOU HAVE ALREADY DEMONSTRATED, then what do you expect to gain? Being "the winner of the battle of will?" Pfft. That's pretty lame. This is an ego issue.

 

"Dark secrets" could be a lot of different things. And that's the problem. You can't get over something until you know what you're getting over. And always wondering who the person in your bed really is leaves a dark cloud hanging over the relationship.

 

She owes you nothing. You either accept her or you don't. It's evident that you don't so let her go. Your constant need to know every minute detail is probably what's driving her into a mental state. And if not, you certainly aren't helping matters, AT ALL with your constant nagging.

[CarrieT]

The past never stays buried. Maybe if you move to the opposite side of the country... but in my experience...

How old are you?

 

the things you do will come back to haunt you.

I am 51 years old. I have done *many* things in my past that have long stopped haunting me.

 

I'm forever reminded of who I used to be, the mistakes I've made, people I lost, people I hurt.

Disagree. There comes a point in one's life where the mistakes/hurts/losses become a blur and the memories fade.

 

I can't walk down the street without running into 3 people I know.

You must live in a very small town.

 

The past never goes away. You can bury it as deep as you want, but in the end the truth will emerge.

Again, I disagree. I have re-created myself several times. It isn't a matter of burying, but re-creating and in that recreation, it becomes a new truth so that what once existed, never re-emergences.

 

I am speaking from experience.

[deadelvis]

Deadelvis,

 

OK, let's try a thought experiment.

 

Idea, "what would I do in your shoes, with your SO"

 

Let's say that I was available and so was she, we get together and clicked. We get a relationship going, move in with each other, thinking of marriage.

 

At this point, it is probable that I know some of her past, but I am going to marry her, so what do I want to know, and what am I entitled to know?

 

Going back to my statement, that "I am all for knowing a spouse's past sexually history, when and only when, it impacts the present relationship" My questions to her would be, "Dear, is there anything that you have done, that may come back to hurt us in the present?"

 

I would want to know, the following:

 

1) Ever been arrested? DUI? So fourth.

 

She has been arrested, makes brief mention of it as "silly teenage stuff" like drunk in public, resisting arrest etc. But she paid several thousand dollars to have her criminal record expunged. I think she's been arrested for more than just being a drunk teenager. But I will never know.

 

2) If 1, did you go to jail, prison? Did that get cleaned up?

 

Same answer as above.

 

3) Were you ever married? LTR? Do not need the details, just that you have ex's

 

Never married to my knowledge. Many ex's. I know of the "main ex's". The others are too numerous to keep straight even for me.

4) Any children?

 

No children to my knowledge. Mentioned having an abortion once. I've often wondered if she had a child young and gave it up for adoption.

 

5) How are your fiances? Debts we need to work on?

 

She's flat broke. That's no secret.

 

I would then ask, that if she meets, a person she was intimate with, she let me know, so "WE" can decide how to handle it, or if it needs to be.

 

I agree 100%. But the problem is she doesn't mention which people she's been intimate with. I used to ask "who the hell was that guy? did you date that guy or something?" but she always lied. So now I stopped asking.

 

END experiment.

 

This is all I would ask. I would only go back to her past if it was impacting our relationship. I would also get her into IC, but I would work to let her know I was a safe, non judgmental, loving person she could, if she wanted to, open up to.

 

The paradox you have set up, if that you want to know everything, and when she tells you, you always think there is more. You are not the safe, loving person she can open up to. Until you reach this place, yourself, she is going to "keep" her past from you, and rightly so. You want to move on, find out why this bothers you. Find if you can accept your SO past, and HELP her.

 

Only by working to put your needs and fears aside, will she get to the point that she can trust you to be open. You should have compassion for her past, I am sure all she wants is to put it past her and have a loving, trusting relationship.

 

If you, deep down, can not do this, you need to let her go.

 

Lastly, if some "pimp stepped out of a alley and dragged my wife away from me." The pimp would be dead, or wish he was.

 

I wish and hope that you both find peace and hope.

 

But I agree with your overall message.

[mrldii]

But I've stopped asking about her life. It felt like everything she told me was a lie anyway so I didn't see much point in asking anymore questions. I don't think she will ever volunteer the truth on her own, so I guess it's just a matter of waiting till the truth emerges. And in my experience... the truth usually comes out after long enough. The past never stays buried.

 

 

You are probably correct; in my experience, when one goes looking for the worst in others, one can, typically, find it...

 

...sooner or later. If you just hang in there a little longer, I'm pretty sure you'll get what it is you really want...proof that she really IS a truly despicable person, not worthy of your time.

 

 

I mean, after all, she IS a woman, is she not?

[deadelvis]

How old are you?

 

I'm 33

 

I am 51 years old. I have done *many* things in my past that have long stopped haunting me.

 

That must be nice. Not a day goes by that I don't regret the friends who I've lost. Wondering if maybe I'd done things a little different they might still be alive. I'm haunted by my past choices and my past is (lots of assuming here) probably nowhere near as regretful as hers. I honestly think her mental health issues are 75% just her mind trying to cope with the terrible choices she made and the turmoil of trying to deny the truth. It's not that easy for most of us to just put the past behind us. When things like rape, murder, suicide, drug addiction and prostitution are involved you can't just leave that baggage on the curb and start over. Those demons will find you.

 

Disagree. There comes a point in one's life where the mistakes/hurts/losses become a blur and the memories fade.

 

 

You must live in a very small town.

 

We do. But when we go to the large city where she lived it's no different. We still run into people from her past. And she gets really nervous.

 

Again, I disagree. I have re-created myself several times. It isn't a matter of burying, but re-creating and in that recreation, it becomes a new truth so that what once existed, never re-emergences.

 

You can project the image of whatever you want, but it doesn't change who you are. When I wear an expensive suit I look like a completely different person. I'm great at cleaning up and becoming someone else. But I will always be who I am. They have an expression where I live. "you can take the girl out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the girl".

 

Alcohol is often a truth serum. Watch a group of businessmen getting drunk. After a few drinks it suddenly becomes clear who grew up sheltered, eating from a silver spoon, and who grew up fighting in the streets. Clothes, mannerisms, cars, houses, jobs.... All those can be changed and adjusted to recreate who you are. But quintessentially you will always remain who you are.

 

I am speaking from experience.

 

 

I've been a lot of different characters in my own story. But I am still the same person I've always been. And it's the story that defines me. Even more than the person you see standing before you. I am nothing more than an accumulation of the choices I've made. Good or bad. I am what I am because of the things I have done. To deny what I've done would be to deny who I am. And all the drugs in the world won't numb that feeling of self denial.

[deadelvis]

You are probably correct; in my experience, when one goes looking for the worst in others, one can, typically, find it...

 

...sooner or later. If you just hang in there a little longer, I'm pretty sure you'll get what it is you really want...proof that she really IS a truly despicable person, not worthy of your time.

 

 

I mean, after all, she IS a woman, is she not?

 

What I want is the truth. And the truth is neither good nor bad. The truth is not subjective, it does not play favorites or filter things through the lens of emotion. The truth is singular.

[CarrieT]

The truth is NOT singular.

 

Google "Rashomon effect."

[mightycpa]

We had an argument yesterday at the our couples therapy

Just as an aside, how long do you have to be going out for this to be a desirable option? Do you have children or something?

 

anyway,

What are the general thoughts on this? I realize it's a bit of an invasion, but at this point I would willingly commit that small trespass if it means I can finally get some answers about her life. Would the information I get from her while sleeping even be reliable? One night I remember her saying something in her sleep like "I just spent all night hooking for a 100 bucks a piece"...

So here you are in couples therapy with a girl you suspect is hiding her past from you, and not only do you have trouble in real life, but you argue in couples therapy? And, she lies to you, which you apparently don't like.

 

In sum total, I guess I'm returning to my question of WHY? When does the effort become too much?

 

What is so compelling that you would rather fight this fight than to find someone with whom you won't require therapy to stay together? Can I be the only one who thinks this way?

[preraph]

You can't place any worth on anything that anyone says while asleep because as we all know, dreams are often nonsensical and they're also often acting out things we'd never really do or say. Sometimes we're not even ourself in dreams. Sometimes we're someone else entirely and talking on their behalf.

 

And I can't tell you how quickly I'd kick your *ss to the curb if I caught you staying awake to spy on me in my sleep. You need help for YOU and shouldn't be worrying about her at this point until you straighten yourself out.

[deadelvis]

The truth is NOT singular.

 

Google "Rashomon effect."

 

The truth is singular. It's versions are mistruths...

 

Rashomon effect is easily explained by perspective and memory. Obviously a rapist and a rape victim will have greatly distorted interpretations of events. But the truth is still singular. Video footage pretty much puts Rashomon effect in the dirt. And this entire line of thinking is an excuse for taking the accountability away from our actions. Our memories or interpretation of events might be faulty, but the actual truth is still out there. A dozen people might witness the same event and remember it differently, but watching the slow motion replay leaves very little doubt about what did or did not happen.

 

But what is your point anyway? We can selectively choose to modify our past as it suits our current interests? Well in that case I'm going to start telling people I'm Dr. Rashoman PHD.

 

Actions. It's not about what you wanted to do, thought about doing or almost did. In this world a person is applauded or condemned, loved or hated... based on their actions. Don't marginalize that fact. Most people hiding behind things like the Rashoman effect are looking for a way out. An excuse. A justification for the things they regret doing. Own your behavior and you don't need to hide from the truth.

 

The truth will set you free.

Edited July 29, 2015 by deadelvis