Hundreds Gather for Unveiling of Satanic Statue in Detroit

[xxoo]

Do you believe that is more important than helping people and animals in need?

 

Do you disagree with all the Christians who help people via schools, charities and hospitals? Christians can and many are involved both in helping people and in politics. Those who are involved in American politics have a legitimate reason, since many Americans identify as Christians. Satanists as well can be involved in politics, since they are Americans too. However, there are currently more people who identify as Christians than Satanists, so it naturally makes sense that Judeo-Christian values have a bigger presence in the USA.

 

And Christian values do hold a bigger presence in the US. Its just one statue, and it's huge news and described as a threat. What's the big deal?

[umirano]

Do you believe that is more important than helping people and animals in need?

 

Do you disagree with all the Christians who help people via schools, charities and hospitals? Christians can and many are involved both in helping people and in politics. Those who are involved in American politics have a legitimate reason, since many Americans identify as Christians. Satanists as well can be involved in politics, since they are Americans too. However, there are currently more people who identify as Christians than Satanists, so it naturally makes sense that Judeo-Christian values have a bigger presence in the USA.

 

It's not either helping people and animals or defending secular values, decent people will do both.

 

 

In the second part you are basically calling for a theocracy, where the demographically dominant religion should have the biggest influence. Maybe you should consider the Vatican or the Iran as a new country of residence?

 

I believe religion should be treated like the drug it is. Do it on your own risk, as an adult, in private locations. People who want to do other drugs, or no drugs at all, should be left in peace when you're high on your particular substance.

 

I don't want to be reminded of the fascist, racist, sexist, megalomaniacal, totalitarian and homophobic values that religion puts into man's head when I walk into a court house. And I think judges shouldn't be either.

[pureinheart]

I will not divulge anymore than to say this: I have some real life experience, as did my ex, with satanists and the occult, and trust me when i say they do NOT go around with hoods and tails. If you're reading stuff on wacky charismatic sites or something you are getting sensationalized non-facts.

 

I am NOT saying that it isn't dangerous and to be avoided, I am just saying that the one who masquerades as an angel of light is smart enough not to have followers dress like something out of Charmed or Supernatural....that is just common sense.

 

Possibly my communication lacks, although I don't remember saying anything accept Satanism is real. Did I say they wear hoods or any other type of attire? I don't know what they wear. They do however gather for rituals, which can include both human and animal sacrifice... and I'll just leave it at that.

 

You know, it wouldn't be uncommon for the major rituals and gatherings to wear hoods. It's not that far fetched or a figment of the imagination. Usually their rituals where human and animal sacrifice are present (and possibly others) are secret.

 

There are many different forms of Satanism- due to my severe lack of knowledge on this subject, this was confirmed by Carrie.

 

I'm aware of the 'Beautiful Side Of Evil'. Which is the name of a really good book I read 25 or so years ago, by Johanna Michelson (sp?), think she was/is Hal Lindsey's SIL.

[BetheButterfly]

And Christian values do hold a bigger presence in the US.

 

True.

 

Its just one statue, and it's huge news and described as a threat. What's the big deal?

The big deal is because it seems that instead of truly wanting to be included, they would prefer to simply not have anything that speaks of Judaism or Christianity in American government property.

 

All religious beliefs that Americans have can in my opinion be included in American government buildings. For example, I would love for the USA to ask Native American tribes to bring their heritage into the government buildings... one of the most horrible things in American history in my opinion is how the Native Americans were treated.

 

Yeah I know it's because the Native Americans didn't want the European colonists to take over their land and force them on reservations and then try to "Christianize" their children, which is understandable. However, I personally wish that great quotes from Native Americans would be added to American government places, along with the Ten Commandments.

 

So, I don't have a problem with other peoples' beliefs being added. I think Native American quotes for example should have been considered and respected and yes even placed in government buildings a long time ago. And, I wish more Native Americans were involved in American politics.

[BetheButterfly]

It's not either helping people and animals or defending secular values, decent people will do both.

 

So you think that all people who are not secular are thus not "decent" people? Isn't that discrimination based on religion?

 

In the second part you are basically calling for a theocracy, where the demographically dominant religion should have the biggest influence. Maybe you should consider the Vatican or the Iran as a new country of residence?

 

I am 100% against a Christian or Muslim theocracy, even though I'm a Christian. I also do not consider the USA a "Christian" nation. However, there are many people who identify as Christians that are Americans. A democracy is what I support, and people are free to be influenced by their belief when voting.

 

I believe religion should be treated like the drug it is. Do it on your own risk, as an adult, in private locations. People who want to do other drugs, or no drugs at all, should be left in peace when you're high on your particular substance.

 

I disagree with you because religion isn't something one smokes or whatever. Religion is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe..."

Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

 

 

A part of the Christian belief is to tell people about Jesus Christ, which is one reason why the Christians were persecuted long time ago (and still are today in North Korea and by ISIS).

I don't want to be reminded of the fascist, racist, sexist, megalomaniacal, totalitarian and homophobic values that religion puts into man's head when I walk into a court house. And I think judges shouldn't be either.

 

Which of the 10 commandments do you consider to be fascist, racist, sexist, megalomaniacal, and homophobic? Just curious.

 

If the judges in question want the 10 commandments in the courthouse, that is their right. If they want to take the 10 commandments down, that is their right too.

[CarrieT]

Which of the 10 commandments do you consider to be fascist, racist, sexist, megalomaniacal, and homophobic? Just curious.

 

For me, the following three are pretty megalomaniacal of a singular deity who may know there exists other deities and is trying to put himself above those others (but I'm a polytheist):

 

You shall have no other gods before Me.

You shall not make idols.

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

[BetheButterfly]

For me, the following three are pretty megalomaniacal of a singular deity who may know there exist other deities and is trying to put himself above those others (but I'm a polytheist):

 

You shall have no other gods before Me.

You shall not make idols.

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

 

 

Understood. However, for me (a monotheist), these 3 laws are not megalomaniacal but rather are understandable. I see them in the same way I see monogamy really... since both my husband and I are monogamists, it makes sense to have no other mate for example.

 

The sabbath one is also an issue too, yes?

 

However, are the other 6 laws ok, in your opinion?

 

So, instead of trying to get the 10 Commandments out of a government property, why not write something that explains why Satanists don't believe in at least 4 of those commandments and why? Then, why not request for that manuscript to be added? I mean, after all, the 4 rules pertaining to God in the Ten Commandments are not enforced at all in the USA anymore.

 

There was a time however in the USA when an interpretation of the sabbath day was enforced, yes?

Edited July 29, 2015 by BetheButterfly

[CarrieT]

The sabbath one is also an issue too, yes?

Actually I had the sabbath one listed and deleted it for some reason. Yep - pointless day, IMHO.

 

However, are the other 6 laws ok, in your opinion?

Not necessarily - all could be argued for or against with extenuating circumstances. Would you honor your father if he murdered your mother or raped your sister? And yet it is a COMMANDMENT to do so...

 

And for those in open marriages, is that adultery if the partner agrees to it?

 

I, for one, never got why coveting was such a bad thing... If I covet my neighbor's Jaguar, might that not spurn me on towards working harder to get one?

 

 

Instead of trying to get the 10 Commandments out of a government property, why not write something that explains why Satanists don't believe in at least 4 of those commandments and why?

Why should they have to explain anything?

 

Then, why not request for that manuscript to be added? I mean, after all, the 4 rules pertaining to God in the Ten Commandments are not enforced at all in the USA anymore.

Why not simply ADD to it some of the Satanist's creed? Or any other religion's creed? Because these edicts simply do not speak for everyone and are based from a religious doctrine (Christian). And there should be separation of Church and State. That's why.

[TheFinalWord]

Understood. However, for me (a monotheist), these 3 laws are not megalomaniacal but rather are understandable. I see them in the same way I see monogamy really... since both my husband and I are monogamists, it makes sense to have no other mate for example.

 

The sabbath one is also an issue too, yes?

 

However, are the other 6 laws ok, in your opinion?

 

So, instead of trying to get the 10 Commandments out of a government property, why not write something that explains why Satanists don't believe in at least 4 of those commandments and why? Then, why not request for that manuscript to be added? I mean, after all, the 4 rules pertaining to God in the Ten Commandments are not enforced at all in the USA anymore.

 

There was a time however in the USA when an interpretation of the sabbath day was enforced, yes?

 

Off topic, but I personally like a Sabbath "day". It doesn't really work unless it's sort of a national law per say, because other companies will stay open and take business. I personally won't shop on holidays b/c I don't think others should have to work. In general, I think we are too much on the go and don't take time to stop, turn off phones, be with family, not think about work etc. So even though I'm not Jewish and don't think we have to celebrate the Sabbath, I wouldn't be opposed to that commandment. I agree with the principle. Just a personal opinion, not trying to force it on anyone else.

[xxoo]

True.

 

The big deal is because it seems that instead of truly wanting to be included, they would prefer to simply not have anything that speaks of Judaism or Christianity in American government property.

 

All religious beliefs that Americans have can in my opinion be included in American government buildings. For example, I would love for the USA to ask Native American tribes to bring their heritage into the government buildings... one of the most horrible things in American history in my opinion is how the Native Americans were treated.

 

Yeah I know it's because the Native Americans didn't want the European colonists to take over their land and force them on reservations and then try to "Christianize" their children, which is understandable. However, I personally wish that great quotes from Native Americans would be added to American government places, along with the Ten Commandments.

 

So, I don't have a problem with other peoples' beliefs being added. I think Native American quotes for example should have been considered and respected and yes even placed in government buildings a long time ago. And, I wish more Native Americans were involved in American politics.

 

They might also welcome the Native American quotes.

 

I do think they'd prefer no religious quotes on govt buildings. That still isn't attacking Christianity. In the context of allowing religious quotes on govt buildings, they'd like to see equal opportunity for all religions. Sounds reasonable to me. Again, no attack on Christianity, which is strongly represented throughout the system.

[BetheButterfly]

Actually I had the sabbath one listed and deleted it for some reason. Yep - pointless day, IMHO.

 

Well, it's not a law in the USA anymore, and I'm fine with that.

 

Not necessarily - all could be argued for or against with extenuating circumstances. Would you honor your father if he murdered your mother or raped your sister? And yet it is a COMMANDMENT to do so...

The Ten Commandments are not in specific. They are in general. The descendants of Israel who followed them had for most of their history human leaders (judges and kings) that decided consequences.

 

And for those in open marriages, is that adultery if the partner agrees to it?

It depends on one's definition for adultery.

 

I, for one, never got why coveting was such a bad thing... If I covet my neighbor's Jaguar, might that not spurn me on towards working harder to get one?

I think the covet thing means want so much that you don't care for your neighbor but rather want to take it from him. That's my interpretation, anyways.

 

Why should they have to explain anything?

When I have an objection to something, I think it's good to explain why. So, I'm just thinking what I would do in that situation - the Golden Rule, you know?

Why not simply ADD to it some of the Satanist's creed? Or any other religion's creed? Because these edicts simply do not speak for everyone and are based from a religious doctrine (Christian). And there should be separation of Church and State. That's why

Again, separation of Church and State means that the Church cannot take control of the State and that the State cannot take control of the Church. Separation of Church and State does not mean that one cannot exercise their religious freedoms, including hanging the 10 commandments where they work if they so desire. Edited July 29, 2015 by BetheButterfly

[pureinheart]

Never been to a modern metal concert have ya?

 

Behemoth debuted at #34 on the Billboards chart for their album "The Satanist"...

 

They are very open about their satanism and definitely dress the part.

 

Behemoth Ora Pro Nobis Lucifer

 

 

Another strategy of satan is to normalize extreme behaviors.

 

Nergal follows up that quote with a fascinating look into how the figure of Satan plays a role in his creativity. “I wanted to make an honest statement about who I am and what life means to me, through this music,” Nergal begins. “Satan is the most misunderstood figure in the world. He represents the truth and spirit of man, the freedom and honesty of who we are. I was raised as a Catholic and so I was told a lot about Satan, but it wasn’t the truth. Satanism is about life and liberation and love for freedom. I have Satan in me, flowing through my veins and through my music.

 

Does Black Sabbath count?

 

Went to this concert back in the day and I was just a kid (of course)- awesome concert, but I couldn't handle BS then (or now), so went and got high or something during their 'performance'.

 

https://eriecountyfieldhouse.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/vh-hagar-sabbath-boston-at-the-same-show/

 

I realize some of this is about theatrics, but after listening to Jeff Fenholt (sp?), who was a member of BS for a long time and then left after getting saved, for as long as I did, well, I'm convinced they were into Satanism. Not sure how far it went, but it probably was deep.

[pureinheart]

Again, separation of Church and State means that the Church cannot take control of the State and that the State cannot take control of the Church. Separation of Church and State does not mean that one cannot exercise their religious freedoms, including hanging the 10 commandments where they work if they so desire.

 

I like the way you explained this...

 

We just debated this somewhere on LS and as much as this term is used to defend the removal of anything from the Bible or anything that is religious, it's not actually in the Constitution anywhere. Some say it's implied by the FF's and the way they say it's implied I can't agree with at all.

[autumnnight]

I'm aware of the 'Beautiful Side Of Evil'. Which is the name of a really good book I read 25 or so years ago, by Johanna Michelson (sp?), think she was/is Hal Lindsey's SIL.

 

Yeah, I figured you had probably read that book too.

 

My point is when we embrace the theatrical and "hollywood" version of Satanism as the kind to fear, we miss the more insidious...the kind that look and talks and acts like "goodness."

 

Not to mention that when we hang out hands on frauds and exhibitionists, we just reaffirm to a large portion of the public that we are, well, a bit....short of a full stack of pancakes. I wish we didn't even have to consider this, but the harsh truth is that much of the world is striving to paint Christians as fear-mongering, toothless, easily panicked, reactionary, etc. etc. We don't need to add fuel to the fire.

 

I'll never forget when The Onion - THE ONION - put out a fake article about how the Harry Potter books were causing children to worship satan and join the occult. I had friends who were "deeply concerned" and felt we should "pray diligently that the satanic influence of these demonic books be bound by the Almighty."

 

It was The Onion. It was embarrassing. It was the Christian equivalent of the redneck on the news after a tornado.

 

We don't need that. And that is what some of this absolute "Chicken Little" reaction to this ridiculous statue reminds me of.

[umirano]

BetheButterfly, you got several things wrong I think.

 

1. separation of church and state means that the church and religious doctrine aren't part, cause or justification for any act of government. No single religion can be favored. by setting up huge monuments of one or a couple of particular religions the state gives it / them a special endorsement.
   
2. it's divisive, which is part of the religious doctrine but not of the idea of a modern democratic justice system
   
3. the judges don't want to "hang" the ten commandments, it's an outside group who wants to put up a huge monument, shoving their particular fairytale down everyone else's throat.
   
4. the ten commandments stand for the supposed justice that the christian god represents / demands. I don't subscribe to that religion. the christian god sounds like a misogynistic, racist, genocidal celestial dictator. the only way he should be present in a court house is when he's being tried for the atrocities that he committed and incited his followers to committ
   

 

Being told in writing in front of a court house I shall not have other gods but tge christian is religious bullying of the first grade. Yes a decent person would never defend that.

[pureinheart]

Yeah, I figured you had probably read that book too.

 

I'm sure you don't mean this in a good way, although will ask just the same as to your meaning.

 

My point is when we embrace the theatrical and "hollywood" version of Satanism as the kind to fear, we miss the more insidious...the kind that look and talks and acts like "goodness."

 

Well, I have to say even some of that is factual... I know this for fact. I have one direct, very good friend that gave his account and have read many other factual accounts. Where I lack the knowledge is the details of how the different Satanic 'denominations' work.. Also I live close to an area that has several Covens. I have seen the abandoned ones.

 

Not to mention that when we hang out hands on frauds and exhibitionists, we just reaffirm to a large portion of the public that we are, well, a bit....short of a full stack of pancakes. I wish we didn't even have to consider this, but the harsh truth is that much of the world is striving to paint Christians as fear-mongering, toothless, easily panicked, reactionary, etc. etc. We don't need to add fuel to the fire.

 

LOL, they will anyway, they don't need reason, it's a spiritual battle.

 

I'll never forget when The Onion - THE ONION - put out a fake article about how the Harry Potter books were causing children to worship satan and join the occult. I had friends who were "deeply concerned" and felt we should "pray diligently that the satanic influence of these demonic books be bound by the Almighty."

 

Umm, if you're into witchcraft and sorcery, which is what the occult is all about then I guess you would not be very concerned about 'Harry Potter' books.

 

It was The Onion. It was embarrassing. It was the Christian equivalent of the redneck on the news after a tornado.

 

We don't need that. And that is what some of this absolute "Chicken Little" reaction to this ridiculous statue reminds me of.

 

Serious question. Are you a Progressive Christian?

[TheFinalWord]

Does Black Sabbath count?

 

Went to this concert back in the day and I was just a kid (of course)- awesome concert, but I couldn't handle BS then (or now), so went and got high or something during their 'performance'.

 

https://eriecountyfieldhouse.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/vh-hagar-sabbath-boston-at-the-same-show/

 

I realize some of this is about theatrics, but after listening to Jeff Fenholt (sp?), who was a member of BS for a long time and then left after getting saved, for as long as I did, well, I'm convinced they were into Satanism. Not sure how far it went, but it probably was deep.

 

Interesting! Well, BS and Alice Cooper are sort of like the godfathers of metal. A lot of bands basically use their riffs and imagery, even today.

 

You know, it doesn't surprise me BS didn't appeal to you. In my experiences, men tend to be more attracted to metal than women. That's because men often like an 'in your face' straightforward approach, which metal provides. It's why I think it's a mistake to dismiss brazen satanism. The PC satanism only appeals to certain people. Others aren't tempted by it at all. A lot of men in particular often don't care about PC approaches. It's one of the reasons a lot of men don't attend church...it comes across as fake and superficial. Direct approaches are very appealing to men.

 

Satan is compared to an angel of light and a cunning serpent. That is true and we shouldn't ignore that. However, he is also likened to a roaring lion and his attacks like flaming arrows. A roaring lion isn't exactly subtle. IMHO it's a mistake to ignore or downplay satan's direct appeal as an adversary and accuser. Direct confrontation is the approach satan used to convince one-third of the angels to rebel against God and join him. If angels can be deceived, who are stronger and wiser than us, we should very cautious.

[TaraMaiden2]

...If angels can be deceived, who are stronger and wiser than us, we should very cautious.

 

Who says they're stronger and wiser? That's patently untrue.

 

They're just as gullible, easily-swayed and open to temptation as anyone of us is. Just 'cos' they got big wings, flowing golden hair and harps, doesn't make them better.

Satan/Lucifer is an angel himself, isn't he?

So actually, that's an angel, sat on that there throne.... right or wrong?

[TheFinalWord]

Who says they're stronger and wiser? That's patently untrue.

 

They're just as gullible, easily-swayed and open to temptation as anyone of us is. Just 'cos' they got big wings, flowing golden hair and harps, doesn't make them better.

Satan/Lucifer is an angel himself, isn't he?

So actually, that's an angel, sat on that there throne.... right or wrong?

 

Very interesting theory! Do you believe in spiritual beings?

 

Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

 

Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

 

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

 

They are wise, but not omniscient:

To fetch about this form of speech hath thy servant Joab done this thing: and my lord is wise, according to the wisdom of an angel of God, to know all things that are in the earth.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

 

Yes, Lucifer was an angel, a cherub.

[autumnnight]

I'm sure you don't mean this in a good way, although will ask just the same as to your meaning.

 

 

 

Well, I have to say even some of that is factual... I know this for fact. I have one direct, very good friend that gave his account and have read many other factual accounts. Where I lack the knowledge is the details of how the different Satanic 'denominations' work.. Also I live close to an area that has several Covens. I have seen the abandoned ones.

 

 

 

LOL, they will anyway, they don't need reason, it's a spiritual battle.

 

 

 

Umm, if you're into witchcraft and sorcery, which is what the occult is all about then I guess you would not be very concerned about 'Harry Potter' books.

 

 

 

Serious question. Are you a Progressive Christian?

 

I'm sorry my comment about the book came out that way. I've read it too, and it is very compelling and actually heartbreaking. However, I do not think that the majority of people who become involved in satanism and the occult are wooed by the kind of activity described there.

 

I know that rituals occur. I also know that sacrifices occur. However, while sometimes the two can be linked, a coven and a satanic cult are not necessarily the same thing.

 

I may be coming at it from a different angle, and I don't want to share too much. My experiences with satanism and the occult (and no, I have never been involved in either) are from a different and in some ways more frightening side. Now, where I lived, there was this old site of a historic building, and you could go there and see spray painted pentagrams, and there were urban legends of goat sacrifices and rituals and spells, and someone had written the Lord's Prayer backwards on a wall...spooky teenage stuff. For a long time that and the Mike Warnke spectacle I went to was my idea of satanism. Easy to spot, like a horror movie script, and easy to avoid.

 

Then I encountered the real stuff. It was subtle, it was insidious, and much of it masked as truth. And when a very discerning pastor exposed it...

 

Well, let me just say I understand now it isn't the teenager in the hood playing "Another One Bites the Dust" backwards that we need to be vigilant about. It is the new, quiet church member whispering in your ear. It is the community members who begin to subtly protest the growth and evangelism in your church. It is....things I'll be glad to PM with you about but won't share here because I'd look crazy.

 

Ephesians 6 is important for a reason.

 

And if by progressive Christian you mean that seeker-sensitive, touchy feely, bend the truth, your-okay-I'm-okay, grace-abusing "God loves everybody so it's okay to sin" kind of Christianity.....no. The same God who said love your neighbor as yourself and feed the poor also said "Be holy as I am Holy," I am THE way, THE truth and THE life," and "the wages of sin is death,."

 

However, because the Word is balanced, I strive to be as well. That is why just like you won't see me saying we should all just embrace sin to make people feel better, you also won't see me foaming at the mouth and panicking over perceived doom.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. God didn't call us to march on Washington or protest goat statues. He gave clear instructions in Matthew 28:19-20. if we would actually DO that....then the rest would fall in place.

 

Satan has us right where he wants us: running around like Chicken Little freaking out over statues and prayer in school and gay marriage and Obama.....

 

Nobody is making disciples or sharing the Gospel anymore.

Edited July 29, 2015 by autumnnight

[TaraMaiden2]

Very interesting theory! Do you believe in spiritual beings?

 

.... Nah....

 

 

Yes, Lucifer was an angel, a cherub.

Aaaw.... bless......

[Keenly]

Why do people care so much? It's your basic tit for tat.

 

 

The more you talk about it, especially if you disagree with their right to do it (which they have, and won't go away) the more attention you draw to it.

 

 

 

Seems like the only reason this is a story is because people hate on it. Ignore it and no one even cares.

[pureinheart]

I'm sorry my comment about the book came out that way. I've read it too, and it is very compelling and actually heartbreaking. However, I do not think that the majority of people who become involved in satanism and the occult are wooed by the kind of activity described there.

 

I'm so glad I asked then... online it's better not to assume and I do that here and there:)

 

I know that rituals occur. I also know that sacrifices occur. However, while sometimes the two can be linked, a coven and a satanic cult are not necessarily the same thing.

 

I may be coming at it from a different angle, and I don't want to share too much. My experiences with satanism and the occult (and no, I have never been involved in either) are from a different and in some ways more frightening side. Now, where I lived, there was this old site of a historic building, and you could go there and see spray painted pentagrams, and there were urban legends of goat sacrifices and rituals and spells, and someone had written the Lord's Prayer backwards on a wall...spooky teenage stuff. For a long time that and the Mike Warnke spectacle I went to was my idea of satanism. Easy to spot, like a horror movie script, and easy to avoid.

 

Possibly we're on the same page/book, just different chapters? No? Meaning, it's all about the enemy, just different facets?

 

Concerning Mike Warnke, I hadn't kept up with him and wondered what had happened. I did remember hearing something, although when preachers are raked through the coals, I pay little attention. 1) Their commission is possibly higher than mine 2) God is in control and they could be being chastised 3) They are a counterfeit 4) Enemy attack.

 

I think we forget that preachers are human and due to their commission, their attack can be on much higher levels. When a preacher goes down, in some ways I blame the church. We need to pray without ceasing. We need to intercede for them instead of cutting them down- the world doesn't have to cut them down, their own church is doing a bang-up job crucifying them!

 

Anyway, back to MW. It appears as if he is starting a new ministry. I didn't look at the date of the article, but I will see for myself if he is lying or being deceptive. He said his testimony was not a lie. In this case one has to take him at his word. I've yet to see ample evidence to convict him. Concerning the money portion... he who is without sin cast the first stone..lol.. who here hasn't cheated where money is concerned?

 

Then I encountered the real stuff. It was subtle, it was insidious, and much of it masked as truth. And when a very discerning pastor exposed it...

 

Well, let me just say I understand now it isn't the teenager in the hood playing "Another One Bites the Dust" backwards that we need to be vigilant about. It is the new, quiet church member whispering in your ear. It is the community members who begin to subtly protest the growth and evangelism in your church. It is....things I'll be glad to PM with you about but won't share here because I'd look crazy.

 

Please go for it Autumn... I'd be so interested...please pm me! Amen... I'm aware of the subtle nature you are referring to. In-your-face vs not-so-much-in-your-face ... but the 'not so in your face' is the most in your face.. I know that didn't make sense, but hoping you understand...lol

 

I've dealt with witchcraft of the nature you speak of... I found pastors wives to be very full of this type... man talk about a spiritual battle! It's such a delicate thing too, try telling a Pastor his wife is evil... not fun. Especially when she is 'loved' by everyone.

 

 

Ephesians 6 is important for a reason.

 

Amen, I need to re-read this! Thank You!

 

And if by progressive Christian you mean that seeker-sensitive, touchy feely, bend the truth, your-okay-I'm-okay, grace-abusing "God loves everybody so it's okay to sin" kind of Christianity.....no. The same God who said love your neighbor as yourself and feed the poor also said "Be holy as I am Holy," I am THE way, THE truth and THE life," and "the wages of sin is death,."

 

Amen, just asking. I'm seeing a new 'brand' so-to-speak of Christianity and am just now learning about it.

 

However, because the Word is balanced, I strive to be as well. That is why just like you won't see me saying we should all just embrace sin to make people feel better, you also won't see me foaming at the mouth and panicking over perceived doom.

 

God has a commission for all of us and they're all different because we all have different personalities. Look at the Prophets of the O/T, God told some of them to do some very unusual things. Like Ezekiel for instance- tying himself to a pole in the middle of town for days ... unclothed if memory serves me correct. Now what would happen in this day and hour to Ezekiel?

 

You know Autumn, me and a friend were talking about this last night on the phone. The 'balance/objective' thing. We both want so much to understand where the 'other side' is coming from, that we compromise our own conscience. I'm glad I've come to terms with this because in my world there is black and white- right and wrong. Now are we perfect? No. But I need to keep it real within myself. IMO the world is filled with grey, very few, if any absolutes... so when I tried to be balanced, i was compromising- this may or may not apply to you.

 

There's a saying, 'you're so open-minded that your brain is falling out'...

 

This is just an observation... if you receive it, fine, if not let it fall to the ground and die. Possibly in your attempt at balance, this might be causing you to have one foot in the world and another in heaven (per se)? It's really hard in this day and hour, we want to be accepted..but in some cases in order to attain acceptance, there is great compromise. It's just not worth it.

 

The hatred towards Christianity is on the rise, we are in the Last, Last Days IMO. There is nothing we can do to change this and it's important to remember, they hate Jesus first.

 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. God didn't call us to march on Washington or protest goat statues. He gave clear instructions in Matthew 28:19-20. if we would actually DO that....then the rest would fall in place.

 

Satan has us right where he wants us: running around like Chicken Little freaking out over statues and prayer in school and gay marriage and Obama.....

 

This is where we differ. God calls different people to do different things. I'm always cautious before saying what a person or Christian should or shouldn't be doing ... sometimes I spout, but try not to. Many times the Lord has sent His people to warn... we nearing the end of this dispensation, so it would stand to reason that the Lord would raise up many to warn.

 

I do think however, that we may see a point of no return concerning the US... most of the rest of the world is a lost cause IMO. I'm still not convinced the the US is because the Word doesn't say where we stand, it's not clear. So I will occupy until the Lord instructs me to stop- He always makes it plain and clear.

 

Nobody is making disciples or sharing the Gospel anymore.

 

On this note I would strongly disagree. There are many good teachers in this day and hour... and I feel completely blessed- where sin abounds, that much more does grace!

[pureinheart]

Interesting! Well, BS and Alice Cooper are sort of like the godfathers of metal. A lot of bands basically use their riffs and imagery, even today.

 

Wow, Alice Cooper!!! Haven't even thought of him in years. I remember when he first made it big, and felt he was a bit much, but loved the rebellion- like with his song about school (can't recall the name).

 

I didn't know that, but it makes sense- so were they the beginning of Metal?

 

 

You know, it doesn't surprise me BS didn't appeal to you. In my experiences, men tend to be more attracted to metal than women. That's because men often like an 'in your face' straightforward approach, which metal provides. It's why I think it's a mistake to dismiss brazen satanism. The PC satanism only appeals to certain people. Others aren't tempted by it at all. A lot of men in particular often don't care about PC approaches. It's one of the reasons a lot of men don't attend church...it comes across as fake and superficial. Direct approaches are very appealing to men.

 

This is interesting and has become science in the area of 'branding' to sell/market. I agree and don't dismiss any aspect of it.

 

Satan is compared to an angel of light and a cunning serpent. That is true and we shouldn't ignore that. However, he is also likened to a roaring lion and his attacks like flaming arrows. A roaring lion isn't exactly subtle. IMHO it's a mistake to ignore or downplay satan's direct appeal as an adversary and accuser. Direct confrontation is the approach satan used to convince one-third of the angels to rebel against God and join him. If angels can be deceived, who are stronger and wiser than us, we should very cautious.

 

Amen! You know TFW, there have been many times in my life in which I didn't take all aspects of satan seriously. This is yet another one of his methods of deception. He has many faces. The battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and things in high places....

[pureinheart]

Why do people care so much? It's your basic tit for tat.

 

 

The more you talk about it, especially if you disagree with their right to do it (which they have, and won't go away) the more attention you draw to it.

 

 

 

Seems like the only reason this is a story is because people hate on it. Ignore it and no one even cares.

 

In some ways you are right on the money, yet I have seen instances where something, any given issue has been ignored and it turned into something worse and spread like crabgrass.

 

What I don't like about this is the apparent immaturity of the individuals responsible for this 'statue'.

 

Don't people have something better to do than make a mockery of whatever they were trying to mock- God. My God doesn't like to be mocked.

 

This article covers the Church also:

 

What does it mean that God is not mocked?

 

..and this one is cool:

 

What Does the Bible Say About Mocking God?