Hundreds Gather for Unveiling of Satanic Statue in Detroit

[AnnonymousUser]

it is pretty absurd

[loveweary11]

As an atheist, this whole spectacle makes me laugh.

[OpenBook]

Greaves told The Washington Post the statue will not remain in Detroit. Right now, they plan on installing the statue in Arkansas, where the legislature approved a privately funded monument of the Ten Commandments at the state’s Capitol.

 

The devil went down to Georgia Arkansas,

he was lookin for a soul to steal...

 

[Johnny] Fire on the Mountain, Run Boys Run!

 

[CarrieT]

but assumed that Satanists take that seriously in one form or another.

Not really.

[TaraMaiden2]

I meant signing their souls over to Satan. I know absolutely zero about the statue and it's meaning, but assumed that Satanists take that seriously in one form or another.

 

They take it about as seriously as you would take a contract forbidding you from trimming your dog's hair, walking it out in public when it's on heat and agreeing to pay a $1000 fine directly to the Chief of Police if it poops on the sidewalk.

 

That contract is laughable.

The satanic contract isn't serious. It was designed to scare hardened Christians off because they actually give some credence to this nonsense, and permit their faith to get in the way of logic....

 

Seems to have worked.....

[autumnnight]

It is people like the fraud Mike Warnke who have made satanists and satanism into some sort of caricature of a hooded figure who eats raw goat and talks backwards. Throw in a few Frank Peretti books, and you've got people going Chicken Little all over the place.

 

I cringe in the same way I cringe when the stereotypical mawmaw in a muumuu is interviewed after a tornado.

[pureinheart]

They take it about as seriously as you would take a contract forbidding you from trimming your dog's hair, walking it out in public when it's on heat and agreeing to pay a $1000 fine directly to the Chief of Police if it poops on the sidewalk.

 

That contract is laughable.

The satanic contract isn't serious. It was designed to scare hardened Christians off because they actually give some credence to this nonsense, and permit their faith to get in the way of logic....

 

Seems to have worked.....

 

You know Tara, I'm not much into games, but most of the rest of the world appears to be. I take people at their word... I know little about satanism and really don't care about it until they start getting creepy and commit violent acts- which happens periodically in my area.

 

I didn't know and asked a simple question. Thank you for your typical sarcasm and continued communication meant to make others look less than yourself.

[pureinheart]

It is people like the fraud Mike Warnke who have made satanists and satanism into some sort of caricature of a hooded figure who eats raw goat and talks backwards. Throw in a few Frank Peretti books, and you've got people going Chicken Little all over the place.

 

I cringe in the same way I cringe when the stereotypical mawmaw in a muumuu is interviewed after a tornado.

 

Wow... all I can say is get some correct information because some satanists are into what you describe. The occult is nothing to play with.

 

Frank Peretti's books are really good and do illustrate the spiritual battle. There is a spiritual/battle realm BTW.

[BetheButterfly]

Video of the unveiling

 

 

It saddens me, but it doesn't surprise me. The Bible has been attacked for a long time. However, it's important for Christians to obey what Jesus Christ said and love both their neighbors and enemies.

 

So, this is a great opportunity for Christians to show God's love for people who believe differently than they do. If possible, it'd be a good idea for Christians to see about having a loving Christian stand by the statue, pray for the people who are attacking the Bible, give leaflets about Jesus Christ, and kindly talk to people.

 

Christianity has been attacked for a long time, starting in Israel. It shouldn't surprise us that it's happening in the USA too nowadays. The worst attacks on Christianity however occur when Christians don't obey Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself and enemies.

Edited July 28, 2015 by BetheButterfly

[Grumpybutfun]

I suppose my question is why is this any different than any other religious monument? I understand that to Christians this might be an issue, due to their faithful belief in their mythologies, which is their absolute right to believe, but it just seems pointless to be mad at fairytales in any form to me. There is a statue of Apollo in my yard....but I don't worship Apollo nor do I think he was "real."

Religion is a personal choice and all religions are regarded equal except by followers of the "only and correct" religion. I mean, I think it is a waste of space and resources, not to mention energy where people making, protesting or generally planning such things could be making real change in poverty, child hunger, senior care, abuse or homelessness, but then I think that way about every religion. Of course I am told aesthetics are important.

Best,

Grumps

[autumnnight]

Wow... all I can say is get some correct information because some satanists are into what you describe. The occult is nothing to play with.

 

Frank Peretti's books are really good and do illustrate the spiritual battle. There is a spiritual/battle realm BTW.

 

I will not divulge anymore than to say this: I have some real life experience, as did my ex, with satanists and the occult, and trust me when i say they do NOT go around with hoods and tails. If you're reading stuff on wacky charismatic sites or something you are getting sensationalized non-facts.

 

I am NOT saying that it isn't dangerous and to be avoided, I am just saying that the one who masquerades as an angel of light is smart enough not to have followers dress like something out of Charmed or Supernatural....that is just common sense.

[BetheButterfly]

I suppose my question is why is this any different than any other religious monument?

 

I think one reason is because it is so against Christianity. I mean, it's so obvious that Satanists love to push Christians' buttons. It's like they are deliberately trying to make Christians mad while attacking Christian beliefs.

 

I understand that to Christians this might be an issue, due to their faithful belief in their mythologies, which is their absolute right to believe, but it just seems pointless to be mad at fairytales in any form to me.

Many Christians do not believe that satan is a fairytale. If Christians believed that satan is a fairytale, then that would be a good point.

 

There is a statue of Apollo in my yard....but I don't worship Apollo nor do I think he was "real."

Well, many Christians do think Satan is real.

 

Religion is a personal choice and all religions are regarded equal except by followers of the "only and correct" religion.

Long time ago, people were killed for not believing in a specific religion. For example, many of the early Christians were killed by the Romans off and on until Constantine made Christianity legal. A more recent example is my friend Dr. Steven Masood, whose own father tried to kill him when he became a Christian. (Masood is from Pakistan and was a Muslim before his conversion to Christianity.)

 

Sadly, disobedient "Christians" have killed other people for not being their type of "Christian" too. This is in direct disobedience to Jesus' commands to love.

 

I mean, I think it is a waste of space and resources,

Satanists disagree with you. They think it's an awesome way to force the Ten Commandments off of government property. It is a brilliant strategy, as in broo ha ha (evil laughter) brilliant.

 

not to mention energy where people making, protesting or generally planning such things could be making real change in poverty, child hunger, senior care, abuse or homelessness, but then I think that way about every religion. Of course I am told aesthetics are important.

Best,

Grumps

Well, definitely helping people in need is MUCH more important. Great point. Edited July 28, 2015 by BetheButterfly

[TheFinalWord]

It is people like the fraud Mike Warnke who I am NOT saying that it isn't dangerous and to be avoided, I am just saying that the one who masquerades as an angel of light is smart enough not to have followers dress like something out of Charmed or Supernatural....that is just common sense.

 

Never been to a modern metal concert have ya?

 

Behemoth debuted at #34 on the Billboards chart for their album "The Satanist"...

 

They are very open about their satanism and definitely dress the part.

 

Behemoth Ora Pro Nobis Lucifer

 

 

Another strategy of satan is to normalize extreme behaviors.

 

Nergal follows up that quote with a fascinating look into how the figure of Satan plays a role in his creativity. “I wanted to make an honest statement about who I am and what life means to me, through this music,” Nergal begins. “Satan is the most misunderstood figure in the world. He represents the truth and spirit of man, the freedom and honesty of who we are. I was raised as a Catholic and so I was told a lot about Satan, but it wasn’t the truth. Satanism is about life and liberation and love for freedom. I have Satan in me, flowing through my veins and through my music.

[CarrieT]

I think one reason is because it is so against Christianity. I mean, it's so obvious that Satanists love to push Christians' buttons. It's like they are deliberately trying to make Christians mad while attacking Christian beliefs.

I believe you are incorrect. They (we?) don't attack Christian beliefs; it is simply a matter of showing an alternative. It is not AGAINST anything. If anything it is inclusive.

 

Satanists disagree with you. They think it's an awesome way to force the Ten Commandments off of government property. It is a brilliant strategy, as in broo ha ha (evil laughter) brilliant.

EXACTLY.

[autumnnight]

Never been to a modern metal concert have ya?

 

Behemoth debuted at #34 on the Billboards chart for their album "The Satanist"...

 

They are very open about their satanism and definitely dress the part.

 

Behemoth Ora Pro Nobis Lucifer

 

 

Another strategy of satan is to normalize extreme behaviors.

 

Nergal follows up that quote with a fascinating look into how the figure of Satan plays a role in his creativity. “I wanted to make an honest statement about who I am and what life means to me, through this music,” Nergal begins. “Satan is the most misunderstood figure in the world. He represents the truth and spirit of man, the freedom and honesty of who we are. I was raised as a Catholic and so I was told a lot about Satan, but it wasn’t the truth. Satanism is about life and liberation and love for freedom. I have Satan in me, flowing through my veins and through my music.

 

I'm going to try to explain this in a way that doesn't sound bad.

 

Shock value. Shock value is common at concerts, in fringe groups, in wannabe groups, and especially in teens. What happens at a metal concert is NOT mainstream satanism. It is shock value, theatrics, drama.

 

I had three students who claimed to be satanists. They wore black clothes and black makeup, listened to screamo, and talked about drinking blood (as if). They were teenagers trying to shock teachers.

 

A mainstream, everyday satanist will wear a suit to work, will love their kids, will pay their taxes. They probably do NOT have an Eyes Wide Shut dungeon in their basement.

 

In 1986 I was traveling, and at a Twisted Sister open air concert, the band did an "alter call" for Satan. Was this the satanic version of a Billy Graham crusade? No, it was theatrics and shock.

 

Now, do some people get mixed up in all the theatrics and make themselves vulnerable? Of course. But as long as we believe the lie that all Satanists have pentagrams on their living room floor and wear black lipstick, we are really REALLY missing the point and basically being distracted by the shiny lights.

 

It sounds to me like a few people own that old VHS series, Hells Bells....

[BetheButterfly]

" I have Satan in me, flowing through my veins and through my music."

 

I always thought it was interesting when Jesus Christ once called Peter "Satan" for the following: (I boldened some.)

 

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” - Matthew 16:21-23 (NIV)

[BetheButterfly]

I believe you are incorrect. They (we?) don't attack Christian beliefs; it is simply a matter of showing an alternative. It is not AGAINST anything. If anything it is inclusive.

 

 

EXACTLY.

 

The Ten Commandments are a part of both Christian beliefs and Judaism, so wanting to get the Ten Commandments out of government property is an attack on both Christian beliefs and Judaism in the USA. While granted the USA is not a "Christian" country, it is true that there are many Christians here, as well as some people who practice Judaism in different forms. Trying to get the Ten Commandments out is inconsiderate and an attack on the many Christians and different groups in Judaism.

[Grumpybutfun]

I think one reason is because it is so against Christianity. I mean, it's so obvious that Satanists love to push Christians' buttons. It's like they are deliberately trying to make Christians mad while attacking Christian beliefs.

 

Many Christians do not believe that satan is a fairytale. If Christians believed that satan is a fairytale, then that would be a good point.

 

Well, many Christians do think Satan is real.

 

Long time ago, people were killed for not believing in a specific religion. For example, many of the early Christians were killed by the Romans off and on until Constantine made Christianity legal. A more recent example is my friend Dr. Steven Masood, whose own father tried to kill him when he became a Christian. (Masood is from Pakistan and was a Muslim before his conversion to Christianity.)

 

Sadly, disobedient "Christians" have killed other people for not being their type of "Christian" too. This is in direct disobedience to Jesus' commands to love.

 

Satanists disagree with you. They think it's an awesome way to force the Ten Commandments off of government property. It is a brilliant strategy, as in broo ha ha (evil laughter) brilliant.

 

Well, definitely helping people in need is MUCH more important. Great point.

 

As I said, with respect to you as you know I rethink you are a wonderful person, not everyone is a Christian, or a Satanist or Hindu or Buddhist or even remotely religious...so while I understand Christians may be upset with a Satanist's statue and think Satan is real...why is their opinion or beliefs more important than a Satanist's? As a non-religious person...I believe in the practical and science but also know we are interconnected by energy and love...I guess I see this from a different viewpoint.

 

I wasn't trying to be snarky about your faith or a Satanist's faith, though both to me are irrelevant to my and many other's personal journey. I have no issues with monuments to any deity or prophet. I just think I'd spend my energies doing something more practical with my money and time, as I do quite often at my local animal shelter or my wife does at our local domestic abuse shelter.

 

Please forgive me if I offended you but to me all religion is myth. I studied for many years trying to find the right path, and my eyes began to open to the basic principles many of them shared without the judgment or reward/punishment system which seemed much more pragmatic and enlightening. I'm not saying that anyone in this entire world should agree with me. I know many disagree with me based on their faith, and I wouldn't think much of their faith if they did not disagree with me. The operative question here is why is one religious monument or representation more important than another?

With respect,

Grumps

[autumnnight]

I always thought it was interesting when Jesus Christ once called Peter "Satan" for the following: (I boldened some.)

 

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” - Matthew 16:21-23 (NIV)

 

EXACTLY. The real goal was never to increase the sale of robes and Harry Potter books. It has always been to muddy the Gospel of Christ, to distract from the blood of Jesus. Satan doesn't get his jollies when teenagers buy metal CD's. He gets it when people turn away from God and Christians get so distracted by theatrics, anger, rallies, and thinking the right president will turn our nation back to God that we no longer share the Gospel in loove.

 

The way I figure it, he's having a banner decade.

[BetheButterfly]

As I said, with respect to you as you know I rethink you are a wonderful person, not everyone is a Christian, or a Satanist or Hindu or Buddhist or even remotely religious...so while I understand Christians may be upset with a Satanist's statue and think Satan is real...why is their opinion or beliefs more important than a Satanist's?

 

Christians' opinions and beliefs are not more important than Satanists' beliefs. Rather, both are important. However, it is obvious that the Satanists are trying to get the Ten Commandments out of government property and are not respecting Christian and Judaism beliefs. If they truly just wanted inclusion, that is different. That would mean that they would have no problem with the 10 commandments being in government places.

 

Personally, I would not have a problem with a quote from a Satanist's book being on display, as well as something from the Qur'an and something from a Buddhist manuscript, and something from a Hindu manuscript and of course, something from Native American beliefs too. However, none of these groups are trying to attack the Ten Commandments, hmm?

 

As a non-religious person...I believe in the practical and science but also know we are interconnected by energy and love...I guess I see this from a different viewpoint.

 

I wasn't trying to be snarky about your faith or a Satanist's faith, though both to me are irrelevant to my and many other's personal journey. I have no issues with monuments to any deity or prophet. I just think I'd spend my energies doing something more practical with my money and time, as I do quite often at my local animal shelter or my wife does at our local domestic abuse shelter.

Understood and you're right... helping people and animals is more important!!! Oh and I didn't think you were being snarky lol.

 

Please forgive me if I offended you but to me all religion is myth.

Your belief about my belief doesn't offend me. Thanks though for not calling me "feeble minded" or anything mean like that.

 

I studied for many years trying to find the right path, and my eyes began to open to the basic principles many of them shared without the judgment or reward/punishment system which seemed much more pragmatic and enlightening. I'm not saying that anyone in this entire world should agree with me. I know many disagree with me based on their faith, and I wouldn't think much of their faith if they did not disagree with me. The operative question here is why is one religious monument or representation more important than another?

With respect,

Grumps

I don't think it's a question of which monument or representation is more important, but rather why Satanists are attacking the 10 commandments being posted in places having to do with the law?

 

With respect

Bethy

Edited July 28, 2015 by BetheButterfly

[Grumpybutfun]

 

I don't think it's a question of which monument or representation is more important, but rather why Satanists are attacking the 10 commandments being posted in places having to do with the law?

 

With respect

Bethy

 

Beth, I was under the impression from the material TheFinalWord posted that it was because it was a government building and the Ten Commandments represents church/religion. The decision was based on separation of church and state. Perhaps it is just symbolic but many are concerned since the government has to be separate from all church or religious beliefs due to our commitment to representing all citizens.

Utilizing statues to attack others faith does seem petty, but then human beings have been known to be petty in every religion or non-religion or non-belief. However, I read that the Satanist's statue was originally going to be placed beside the 10 Commandments as a reminder that all religions and beliefs are equally important. Perhaps I misunderstood.

Best,

G

Edited July 28, 2015 by Grumpybutfun

[BetheButterfly]

Beth, I was under the impression from the material TheFinalWord posted that it was because it was a government building and the Ten Commandments represents church/religion. The decision was based on separation of church and state. Perhaps it is just symbolic but many are concerned since the government has to be separate from all church or religious beliefs due to our commitment to representing all citizens.

 

Separation of church and state does not mean that one cannot bring religious symbols important to the citizens into government buildings. It does mean that a church or any other religious organization cannot take control of the state (like Romanized Christianity sadly did in Europe and like Islam did since Muhammad took political control of Arabia).

 

Utilizing statues to attack others faith does seem petty, but then human beings have been known to be petty in every religion or non-religion or non-belief. However, I read that the Satanist's statue was placed there as a reminder that all religions and beliefs are equally important. Perhaps I misunderstood.

Best,

G

 

If Satanists thought that the beliefs of Chrisitianity and Judaism were equally important to Satanism, then they would not have a problem with the Ten Commandments being in government space.

 

Best to you too

[umirano]

Well, definitely helping people in need is MUCH more important. Great point.

 

Actually showing the religious (christian) hypocrisy by demanding a satanist statue be put on public property and forcing the legal system to unequivocally defend freedom from religion and 'shall not make any laws establishing a religion ' is very important too. Some of our theist fellow humans seem to be eagerly waiting forany opportunity to slip their particular belief back into politics and laws.

[TheFinalWord]

I'm going to try to explain this in a way that doesn't sound bad.

 

Shock value. Shock value is common at concerts, in fringe groups, in wannabe groups, and especially in teens. What happens at a metal concert is NOT mainstream satanism. It is shock value, theatrics, drama.

 

I had three students who claimed to be satanists. They wore black clothes and black makeup, listened to screamo, and talked about drinking blood (as if). They were teenagers trying to shock teachers.

 

A mainstream, everyday satanist will wear a suit to work, will love their kids, will pay their taxes. They probably do NOT have an Eyes Wide Shut dungeon in their basement.

 

In 1986 I was traveling, and at a Twisted Sister open air concert, the band did an "alter call" for Satan. Was this the satanic version of a Billy Graham crusade? No, it was theatrics and shock.

 

Now, do some people get mixed up in all the theatrics and make themselves vulnerable? Of course. But as long as we believe the lie that all Satanists have pentagrams on their living room floor and wear black lipstick, we are really REALLY missing the point and basically being distracted by the shiny lights.

 

It sounds to me like a few people own that old VHS series, Hells Bells....

 

Oh, I agree, I do not think it is all about theatrics. However, I don't think any satanist would be opposed to their message being spread directly as it is often done in music. The bible describes satan as an incredible musician, so it makes sense music would be a medium of message delivery. Does every approach have to be so bold? No, but I don't think satanists would describe it as incorrect. Very similar to how most Christians are not street preachers, but I don't think many Christians oppose such a direct approach. The theatrics are just more in your face, but the message is the same. I personally would rather just have the actual message than to have to sift through a bunch of politics. Mainstream satanism seems like a oxymoron to me. Satanism is about independence, not following the crowd. I know what you are trying to say, but satanism itself is about not following the crowd. So the fact they express their opposition to mainstream through clothing should not be surprising.

 

My other point is that what used to be shock, is now trivial. Twisted Sister is akin to My Little Pony compared to today's venues. Dee Snider was also not a genuine satanist. He used it just for shock value. Many metal musicians today are actual satanist and have stated they use their music specifically as a form of evangelism. Extreme metal is a subculture, yes, but many of these bands are topping the charts.

[BetheButterfly]

Actually showing the religious (christian) hypocrisy by demanding a satanist statue be put on public property and forcing the legal system to unequivocally defend freedom from religion and 'shall not make any laws establishing a religion ' is very important too. Some of our theist fellow humans seem to be eagerly waiting forany opportunity to slip their particular belief back into politics and laws.

 

Do you believe that is more important than helping people and animals in need?

 

Do you disagree with all the Christians who help people via schools, charities and hospitals? Christians can and many are involved both in helping people and in politics. Those who are involved in American politics have a legitimate reason, since many Americans identify as Christians. Satanists as well can be involved in politics, since they are Americans too. However, there are currently more people who identify as Christians than Satanists, so it naturally makes sense that Judeo-Christian values have a bigger presence in the USA.

Edited July 28, 2015 by BetheButterfly