Husband just got fired for stealing

[anna121]

Yeah, our marriage has never been great, but it has been getting better. At this point last year he was still blaming me for all of his problems. Now he recognizes that he has an unhealthy way of dealing with stress and anxiety and often takes it out on me. There's no verbal abuse anymore, and he's been doing well in controlling his angry outbursts. He has a ways to go, but the progress is undeniable.

 

My therapist is aware of everything that's happened in the last few years, and even she thinks there has been significant progress. She helps a lot with figuring out whats right, or wrong, what do I want, and why I have made certain choices up until this point.

 

So, that said, I'd like to refocus this thread on the matter at hand: My husband's recent unemployment, how to deal with that from career and financial perspectives, and the emotional struggle that ensues.

 

To clarify:

 

No, I do not believe that stealing from one's employer is okay.

Yes, I am very angry about what he has done, and what's happened as a result.

No, I am not leaving my husband at this point.

 

I am struggling with the fact that everyone makes mistakes. and I believe in redemption and sticking by your partner's side when life gets difficult. He lost his job on Monday, and today (Wednesday) we're revising his resume and he's doing what I ask him.

 

From where I'm sitting, it appears that many of you are quickly determining that I should leave him not because of the current situation, but because you know the history of our marriage from other threads.

 

This situation alone, to me, does not warrant leaving him. Yeah, he ****ed up, but really? He's doing what he can right now to repair the situation. Isn't that worth something?

 

Well, the jury is still out out on how hard he looks for another job. Perhaps that won't be an issue given the realities of your industry and he will be snapped up. But if he is able to get an equivalent job, great. If not, I would look to see how open he is to other work.

 

So, is that worth something? Possibly. It's certainly important to dealing with the immediate situation.

 

But I think he also has some work to do on taking responsibility. From what I can see, he hasn't done much of that and he blamed and got angry at you for not being sufficiently supportive of him in light of his f***-up. Very disturbing.

 

If that continues, then, no, I don't think he IS doing "all he can to repair the situation."

 

I urge you not to see this only as a discrete issue to be resolved, but as part of the broader picture.

[lollipopspot]

So today when I came home he had done some work around the house and picked up our daughter from daycare. He had also gone to return the rest of his work equipment and deliver the check for the amount they agreed upon. He cleaned the mess I made cooking and cleared the table. No complaints.

 

I briefly tried to talk about what happened but he said he just wanted to put it behind him and try to move on. He wasn't rude or aggressive about it, so I let it drop.

 

He said he wants my help revising his resume, figuring out how we're going to handle the termination (career-wise) and that we can start tomorrow. We bought a really cheap computer (since he had to return the one from his job) and he didn't even complain that it wasn't the latest model, as he normally would have.

 

He still seems pretty shaken, which is very rare. Perhaps the reality that he could have been in a world of legal trouble is slowly sinking in?

 

I guess tomorrow we begin the job search. I should be able to tell right away whether he's motivated to do it or he's just paying me lip service.

 

This situation alone, to me, does not warrant leaving him. Yeah, he ****ed up, but really? He's doing what he can right now to repair the situation. Isn't that worth something?

 

It sounds as though he's doing better than you expected, but honestly his attitude still sounds super ****ty. When I read your posts there's a feeling I get that he's magnanimously "allowing" you to help him, and he's alternately pissy and indifferent about it. He seems entitled. You have one life. You want to spend it with this guy? Normally I think families should stay together, but from what I've read about him, I'm not sure that your child is learning good lessons from him.

Edited July 29, 2015 by lollipopspot

[Got it]

Yep, that's where the acceptable amount of corruption comes in. While it makes sense an employer would challenge, on principal, well, it also depends on how much the former employee knows about where the dead bodies are buried at the company and which state and federal regulatory agencies (in our industry, EPA is big) would want to know. Typical business politics. Often, the employee will get a neutral referral, which is code for 'watch out' and, sometimes, no challenge to their UI claim. Right? Perspectives vary. That's business. Crunch the numbers and deal with the humans.

 

Challenging unemployment usually just comes down to prioritizing it. So either you have an HR department where it is standard practice for them to handle it or, in a small business, a decision made by management to keep their unemployment insurance down as much as possible.

 

Occasionally we will decide, or negotiate, that we won't challenge unemployment for whatever reason. But it is general practice in most companies I am affiliated with to challenge it. If they were termed with cause you challenge it.

 

In regards to references, most company's, at least mid to large, follow the general practice to give neutral information; basically name, rank and serial number. While yes they have the right to discuss any misconduct it opens the door to a slander suit that is just a hassle to fight even if you are going to win. So practice is, you give no reference. It is not code for anything, we do not allow our employees or HR to give anything out other than the date they were hired, when the left. We do not even give an answer to the rehire question.

[sandylee1]

Daycare??? Why would you pay for daycare when you have an unemployed husband who can watch his child for free??

 

You can't just withdraw a child from daycare like that. Most require a months notice . You also need to think about what's in the interest of the child and their development. I take it your not a parent?

[hotgurl]

You can't just withdraw a child from daycare like that. Most require a months notice . You also need to think about what's in the interest of the child and their development. I take it your not a parent?

 

Also most have long waiting periods to get back in, the good ones at least. I waited a year to get my daughter in a good daycare center.

[sandylee1]

If my husband did something like this, I would be livid at the thought that he had no regard for keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table or otherwise screwing up our quality of life by doing something he knowingly could lose his job for.

 

It's similar to when men have affairs with subordinates and use company resources for the affair. That also jeopardises the roof over your head.

Except when they're lost in the moment they don't think about that.

 

And yes ....I know it's not against the law to have an affair

[mightycpa]

My husband's employer is NOT pressing charges. They just asked him to cut them a check for the profits that he made, after shipping and auction fees. All of $300. For context, he sold 4 brand new iPhone 4s that were leftover after the company started deploying iPhone 5s.

 

Prior to this situation, my husband was their single most productive and brilliant employee. A true one-man IT department, from top to bottom. His boss apologized to him on their last performance review because he couldn't give him the raise he deserved -- he knew my husband was getting paid about half of his market rate. Imagine that, after all this was said and done... the other manager (recently promoted to director) actually told him he would STILL give him a positive recommendation!

So, that said... this is not out of character for him. He's done it before, but it used to be true junk with little value. Tons of IT people scavenge old equipment that is otherwise going to be thrown away. As a manager, I've seen employees do this ALL the time and, generally, nobody cares. However, he took it too far by taking something that was brand new and still had plenty of resale value, even if it was kind of outdated.

 

My husband's state of mind as of late hasn't been good. Worse than usual, even taking into consideration his depression. When he texted me this morning to tell me he was fired, I was immediately concerned about what he might do. Plus, he was supposed to be taking our daughter to a doctor's appointment, and I didn't think that he would be capable. That's why I took the rest of the day off, and I was glad I did. He was visibly shaken when he got home.

 

He said he did it because he didn't think it was possible for him to get caught, since he was the one who managed the carrier account as well as the inventory. He just wanted some extra cash to pay off his credit card.

 

We've talked and right now he's just trying to tie loose ends but he's going to be looking for a job again soon. I'm not concerned about his ability to find a new job (he truly is a rare gem in the IT field -- I say that as a manager, and a wife), but it may take a few months. In the meantime, things are going to be pretty tough around here.

 

As for the past abuse situation... I've been in therapy for several months now, and believe it or not, after I got a job, the abuse tapered down to almost zero. He still has days when he's not particularly nice, but he's no longer mean and nasty like he used to. My therapist believes that the stress caused by the financial difficulties when I was staying at home with our daughter caused him to act out like that -- he perceived me to be the "cause" of the problem for not having a job. When the situation was resolved, the abuse went away. Not acceptable, of course... but it seems a plausible explanation.

 

Funny how that goes. Now that he's unemployed, I would NEVER treat him the way he treated me then...

I can't imagine that a guy who is willing to get paid half of what he is worth AND who is actually very capable AND who gets a positive recommendation from an employer AND who is no stranger to dishonesty AND whose circumstances surrounding the end of his previous employment will apparently stay private, well I can't imagine why he'd have any problem finding a job quickly.

 

The big question I'd have is when will Mr. Sticky Fingers get over getting caught, and strike again? That's your real worry, when he thinks he's smart enough to get away with it now.

[Arabella]

I can't imagine that a guy who is willing to get paid half of what he is worth AND who is actually very capable AND who gets a positive recommendation from an employer AND who is no stranger to dishonesty AND whose circumstances surrounding the end of his previous employment will apparently stay private, well I can't imagine why he'd have any problem finding a job quickly.

 

The big question I'd have is when will Mr. Sticky Fingers get over getting caught, and strike again? That's your real worry, when he thinks he's smart enough to get away with it now.

 

Correct. This is my real concern at this point.

 

I can clearly see that he is very emotionally shaken at the moment, but that is no guarantee that he has truly learned the lesson and will not do it ever again.

[TaraMaiden2]

Correct. This is my real concern at this point.

 

I can clearly see that he is very emotionally shaken at the moment, but that is no guarantee that he has truly learned the lesson and will not do it ever again.

Doesn't that worry you?

And could one venture to ask - what would your reaction be if he did?

[xxoo]

Correct. This is my real concern at this point.

 

I can clearly see that he is very emotionally shaken at the moment, but that is no guarantee that he has truly learned the lesson and will not do it ever again.

 

As long as he's primarily upset about getting caught, he hasn't learned his lesson.

[pink_sugar]

What he's doing to you is emotional abuse and it isn't any different than physical abuse. Abuse is abuse, but I will leave that for another thread. Yes, partners should stick together through thick and thin, but there is a real possibility he might do this again and you should be prepared just in case he didn't learn his lesson.

 

Anyhow, I'm not sure what your budget is like, but I am very used to a tight budget and getting by just fine since I have lived this way for many years. Start with cutting out the cable/satellite bill. I almost never watch TV, but most shows can be found through streaming sites like netflix and hulu, which are 7.99-8.99 a mon th versus $50-100 for a TV service. Cut down the cell bill plan. Call your provider and ask about any special promotions they can give you and drop down on your data package. As for food, shop outlet stores, dollar tree for basics, etc. Shop sales and consider buying pre-owned items. Coupon when dining out and make a point to only visit restaurants on Groupon, Entertainment.com etc. If you have a daily latte, skip Starbucks and make it at home or pick up an iced brew at McD's or Jack in the box. When entertainment planning...also coupon. Entertainment and Groupon are alsl good for this and will save a lot. You did great buying an older computer model, keep that up. He only needs a basic computer to apply for jobs and work on his resume. Finally, go through your home and gather items to sell for a garage sale, ebay and take any clothes you don't use to a clothing exchange for a few extra bucks. Selling dvds and games can also help with some extra cash. I participate in a site called surveysavvy for a little extra side cash. Hope that helps.

 

PS, DO NOT PAY his credit cards for him. What he can do is call them and explain the situation and get either a forbearance for a few months or a payment reduction while he's out of work. He needs to learn his lesson and paying his debts won't help him.

Edited July 29, 2015 by pink_sugar

[stopping]

Nope, can't say I've ever stolen anything, even as a young child.

 

Condemnation is warranted here. It's also a crime.

 

This is plain delusion...we all mess up...

 

been late to an appointment...you stole the time of the person waiting for you...

 

digital rights...software agreements....

 

Condemnation is rarely warranted..forgiveness is the state of an enlightened mind...

[Robert Z]

Bloody hell, condemnation or what??

 

Yes he did wrong. None of you ever has? Never stolen anything? Course not.

 

Of course you are justified in being angry A. (Very)

 

But this does not make him bad or even a loser come to that..

 

 

No kidding. Talk about a mob. It's like the Jerry Springer show.

[mightycpa]

This is plain delusion...we all mess up...

 

been late to an appointment...you stole the time of the person waiting for you...

 

digital rights...software agreements....

 

Condemnation is rarely warranted..forgiveness is the state of an enlightened mind...

 

1) not if you've been charged for that appointment

 

2) forgiveness requires penitence on the part of the offender; otherwise, you're just being arrogant and perhaps judgmental

[sandylee1]

Also most have long waiting periods to get back in, the good ones at least. I waited a year to get my daughter in a good daycare center.

 

Exactly. So why would you take your child out of daycare, when you could get a job in a few weeks , then be stuck with childcare arrangements. This wouldn't be a sensible move at all. To just break a child's routine at the drop of a hat. Responsible parents don't do this.

[Arabella]

We just got done having dinner and I brought up that I was upset about what happened, and how he jeopardized our livehood. It was the first time I brought it up.

 

He immediately became confrontational and telling me that it's the same thing as when I wasn't working. Except, of course, I didn't get fired for stealing. I tried to explain the difference (in a very calm tone) and he just got more and more angry with me. Then he left.

 

He just doesn't get it. I'm starting to feel very demoralized about the situation.

 

It's what mightycpa said... forgiveness requires penintence. All I see from him is arrogance and entitlement.

[johan]

W

It's what mightycpa said... forgiveness requires penintence. All I see from him is arrogance and entitlement.

 

He doesn't need to own up to what he did for you to forgive him. Not any more than a dog that bites you has to take responsibility for what it did for you to forgive it. It's really completely on you to decide whether to forgive him. But what you can't control is specifically what you are going to have to forgive him for.

 

You may have to go the extra mile and forgive him for his arrogance and entitlement, understanding that there is something wrong in him that he may not have the power or knowledge to change. You can forgive him for those things, and then easily forgive him for his terrible judgment and the fact that his decisions jeopardize your family's security.

 

But when you do go that extra mile you must surrender to the idea that he's never going to change those things. At the same time you're forgiving him you have to acknowledge who he really is and for certain decide in your heart whether he's someone you can be with.

 

It isn't the theft he needs forgiveness for. It's his personality.

[xxoo]

Forgiveness doesn't require anyone to stick around for more harm.

 

In fact, it may be easier to forgive once you manage your exposure to harm. Sometimes feelings like anger have a protective purpose.

[mightycpa]

He doesn't need to own up to what he did for you to forgive him. Not any more than a dog that bites you has to take responsibility for what it did for you to forgive it.

A dog cannot "take responsibility". You cannot forgive a dog. That would be like forgiving a robot for doing what it is programmed to do. What you can do is decide not to be upset by the dog. Certainly, that is solely within your realm and is the healthy thing to do. But when a dog bites you, it generally isn't personal... you know, because it is YOU. Just as getting dumped because a person is interested in someone else, or is simply no longer interested in you, that's not personal, as in

I did this to hurt you.

No. Forgiveness requires intent to harm first, or at least negligence, and a taking of personal responsibility second. This acknowledges an act of wrong, unlike the dog. If somebody throws a rock in your direction, and blackens your eye, but never meant to harm you, and later, you say

 

I forgive you for being a dumbass. I know you didn't mean to hurt me.

you didn't forgive the person. You just let it go.

 

But if the person says,

 

I'm sorry, I never should have thrown that rock. I was thoughtless

that's really what you're forgiving them for... the thoughtlessness. There's a difference. Edited July 30, 2015 by mightycpa

[pink_sugar]

I feel like this is turning into a rant thread, though the OP said differently. None of his reactions are too surprising given their history and she will either have to make a decision to accept him for how he is and move on to focus on prioritizing how they will handle finances until he finds work. AB, have you found that counseling has improved things between you? Since you're choosing to stay together and work on this, I would put more focus on your finances since you did originally write the thread for this reason. The job loss happened, it's done and over...no point in bringing up that you're upset since you know how he will react and how defensive he will get. I think many people including myself gave some insight as to how to approach finances, but it seems on some level that you do want to vent and talk about the issues between you.

[kenmore]

I can't read this whole thread, I just wanted to add my voice to the "people f*ck up sometimes and life goes on" camp.

 

Geez, I can see who of those on here I would NOT want on my side if things went wrong.

 

Yes he stole and it was dumb, but they were old phones! I have seen phones come and go. 99% of the time, they go for good, end up in a pile and eventually get recycled. Yes he should have gotten permission to take them, but IMO, it was an error in judgement, I don't think he was trying to make a killing off the company's property, he thought they were done with them.

 

Personally, I think the company's gestapo techniques are a little over the top. It's almost akin to stealing staples. Whoa!

 

Now I don't condone that either, people should not steal from a company any more than they should steal from a private individual but in the grand scheme of things, it seems a petty crime.

 

Also, I'm abhorred to see so many people advocating divorce over this! He has been unemployed for two days and OP should just throw in the towel? WTF?

 

Yep, I know who I would NOT want in my corner.

 

Ken

[pink_sugar]

I can't read this whole thread, I just wanted to add my voice to the "people f*ck up sometimes and life goes on" camp.

 

Geez, I can see who of those on here I would NOT want on my side if things went wrong.

 

Yes he stole and it was dumb, but they were old phones! I have seen phones come and go. 99% of the time, they go for good, end up in a pile and eventually get recycled. Yes he should have gotten permission to take them, but IMO, it was an error in judgement, I don't think he was trying to make a killing off the company's property, he thought they were done with them.

 

Personally, I think the company's gestapo techniques are a little over the top. It's almost akin to stealing staples. Whoa!

 

Now I don't condone that either, people should not steal from a company any more than they should steal from a private individual but in the grand scheme of things, it seems a petty crime.

 

Also, I'm abhorred to see so many people advocating divorce over this! He has been unemployed for two days and OP should just throw in the towel? WTF?

 

Yep, I know who I would NOT want in my corner.

 

Ken

 

Go back and read the OP's other threads regarding her husband. There is some rather lengthy history of issues aside from this.

[Haydn]

OP, caught up now......

 

I would take the advice of many others.....

 

Somehow extricate yourself from this bloke for the sake of you and your daughter.

 

Sorry, i hope things do improve.

[Els]

It's what mightycpa said... forgiveness requires penintence. All I see from him is arrogance and entitlement.

 

 

Right.

 

Honestly, A, if this had been the one and only issue with the guy, I could understand wanting to stay and work on things. But he has a long history of arrogance, entitlement, mental instability, blaming other people for his wrongs, and abuse (both emotional and physical abuse IIRC). This is just yet another straw on the camel's back. I support people who try to work through issues in their LTRs or marriages instead of just quitting at the first problem they have, but there has to be a limit, AND the other person has to be willing to work with you instead of assuming that he has done nothing wrong.

 

Please leave for the sake of your daughter, if you can't find the strength to leave for yourself.

[Arabella]

Something is really wrong with him mentally. Last night when I brought up that I was upset, he flipped out on me. Twice. He didn't start namecalling or anything like that, but he was very angry that I would even suggest this was his fault. Both times, he stormed out of the house, telling me to mind my own business and get off his case.

 

I reached out to my counselor to see if she had an emergency appointment available (she didn't) and she said that he's obviously in crisis and there's little point in trying to reason at the moment. He's incapable of listening and understanding anything I have to say, because he's overwhelmed dealing with his own emotions, so anything I say is going to push him over the edge. For now, she thought it may be best for me to leave him alone to deal with his emotions and make myself scarce. In her own words, I don't have to enable him by acting like nothing is wrong, but I shouldn't try to reason with him at this moment.

 

Anyway, that aside...

 

From a financial perspective, I don't spend a lot of money. I like to cook dinner every night, and pack leftovers for lunch the next day. We only have Netflix and Amazon Prime for watching TV shows and movies... no expensive cable package, and basic Internet. I buy clothes and shoes only when I need them, I go to get my hair cut once a year if that, and I do my own manicure.

 

He has always had a fast food habit (I'd almost call it an addiction) because he says it makes him feel better emotionally. Even when he was the only one working, he would refuse to let me cook for him and pack him lunch so he wouldn't have to buy food outside. It has been a point of contention for last year because I felt that we couldn't afford it, and he didn't care. However, the good thing is that last week he agreed to finally eat at home instead so we could save money. This was before he even lost his job.

 

As far as the purpose of this thread... I think it's a bit of everything. It helps to vent my anger and frustration here, so I can remain more calm at home. So yeah, I think that's definitely part of it. But I also like to hear other perspectives on how people have dealt with similar situations, and any advice they may have for how to handle it. However, it really seems like the overwhelming majority here believe that I should leave him. Perhaps you are right, but I find it difficult to give up now when our marriage had been doing so much better the last few months.

 

Last night he was saying how he's lost all of his ambition, motivation and self-steem. To me, the dealbreaker will be if he doesn't do anything to try to find a job. I will give him some time to deal with his emotions and make an effort. If he does, who knows... maybe not all is lost?

 

 

-A