Tales from a Married Man

[EH6]

I expected to get flamed pretty bad for my post and that's okay. I know what I'm doing is wrong, and honestly battle with myself every day for the choice I have made.

 

I hear you all say why don't I divorce my wife. I love her I truly do, and that's what makes what I'm doing difficult. I'm sure I'll hear that I don't love her because of what I'm doing but your wrong about that.

 

I'm not asking for fairness and neither do I think I'm special. I actually think I'm pretty ****ty doing what I'm doing. Special? No. Selfish? Yes.

 

The feeling of being desired is a powerful feeling. Years of being turned down and rejected takes its toll on you. It's probably been over a year since I've even had a real kiss from my W.

 

The turning point was probably the last rejection. I had just given her a long back and shoulder massage. I tried coming on to her and she said we'll do it tomorrow. I could have persisted and had sex the following day, but waited to see if she wanted to. It never happened and I knew if it did, it would be a token gesture.

 

With the OW I don't talk **** about my W. I haven't even relayed that story I just wrote.

[mynailpolishchipped]

I am 2 years post separation, recently divorced.

 

People treat divorce almost flippantly. It happens so often, we have been desensitized to it. I know I was.

 

You do not understand how terrible earth shattering, destructive, and detrimentally life changing divorce is until it happens to you.

 

It is worse than losing a parent, losing a job, filling bankruptcy...the only worse than divorce would be the loss of a child.

 

I am 2 years out, and I am still dealing with the aftershock. This is my first night without children in 2 weeks, and I spent the entirety of it reading a book on dealing with managing the effects it has had on my children.

 

We did not go to court. There have been few ugly arguments. There was no long, ugly custody battle.

 

And yet, despite this, despite the fact that I have had a "good" divorce, despite the fact that I am well educated, proficient in dealing with children, proficient with dealing with emotions, and probably the strongest person I know, I STILL FACE DAILY OBSTACLES. If it were just me, I could handle it, but it breaks my heart when I see my children, so young, having to deal with problems that most adults can't even navigate effectively.

 

You can't fix your marriage from the outside. If you make a sandwich and are unsatisfied with the taste, you don't throw it out and make a new one. You add something to make the taste more satisfying. If you were to throw it out and make a second one, you would more than likely repeat the same procedure you used for the first, and you would end up trashing the second just the same. Passion decreases over time. It will with this new woman as well, and the next, and the next.

 

My ex said the same thing about our sex life. He said, "You used to make sounds when we had sex." It is true. I wasn't feeling passionate. I wasn't feeling attractive. All I felt like is a mother. Why? Kids are hard. I, like so many parents, lost my "self" once I had a child. (I am not saying this was our only issue; I doubt it is your only issue.) How much suffering could have been avoided had he told me those words post separation? Had he been willing to self reflect and identify which behaviors he exhibited that could have been contributing to the lack of passion? If he has given us the opportunity to problem solve together.

 

You made a vow. "For better or worse." Did you speak the whole line, but only intend the first two words to be the truth?

[mynailpolishchipped]

This is an important distinction.

 

If you think you are fundamentally damaged, then this affair will become something you can't stop.

 

You need to make it clear to yourself that you are doing this because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to.

 

Once you realize you are doing it because you want to, you need to find out why. Is it the rejection? SO, tell your wife. Don't tell her "I don't get enough sex!" Tell her, "I feel rejected. I miss our intimacy. It is important to me. Why do you feel you have been uninterested in being intimate with me lately? What can I do to change it?"

 

People cheat because they are unhappy and they don't have the proper tools to deal with that unhappiness. You need to get those tools. A good family counselor could do you a world of good.

[Popsicle]

A wise male friend I once had told me that married men of the waffling variety end up losing both women because of their waffling, and that's exactly what will happen to you. So I urge your to pull out all the stops in fixing things in your marriage. Put your foot down and demand counseling with your wife and get yourself unafraid of divorce. Because a spouse who thinks you will never leave them no matter what will do whatever they feel like.

[mynailpolishchipped]

Don't tell your wife that her lack of intimacy is causing you to go elsewhere. That is just not true.

 

Her lack of intimacy is causing you to feel rejected, and YOUR inability to deal with that feeling of rejection is leading you to look elsewhere for validation.

 

Another important distinction.

 

[EH6]

But, but, but...

 

 

Your poor wife IS NOT in this with her eyes wide open is she? You have in fact twisted your wife's arm to stay married to you, or more aptly you are regularly lying to your wife to manipulate her to stay married to you. This is abuse in case you didn't realise. If you don't believe me, then a simple internet search will reveal that what you are doing is emotionally and psychologically abusive to you wife. Does this make you an abuser do you think? As for the OW she is willingly inserting herself into your wife's marriage, behind your wife's back, which makes her a party to your abuse.

 

 

I think you need to be honest with your wife that the lack of sex, affection and intimacy is causing you to look elsewhere for them. With hindsight I really wish my husband had had this talk with me before looking elsewhere. Like you are apparently doing, he grumbled about the lack of frequency of our sex life (we weren't sexless but it was obviously less than he wanted) but at no point did he lay it on the line for me. Yes it would have been brutal but at least I'd have known exactly how things were and could have made my choices in full knowledge of the consequences. Instead I got lied to and betrayed (ie manipulated and abused) for many years, until we had our D-day.

 

I've been very clear and understanding with my wife about our sex life. I have half jokingly suggested an open relationship, which she knows deep down I'm not 100% joking about.

 

My life IS sex less, she won't even use her hand on me. Apologies if that was TMI. I haven't twisted her arm to stay married at all. I gave up a lot to be with this woman, more than you'll understand here. We can talk about abuse. Isn't there any abuse on my end. Isn't not giving someone what they need and want abuse? She's the only person in the world that can give me that need but won't/can't . This isn't months, it's years.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy or understanding here. Just giving my side of the story.

[Hope Shimmers]

I've been very clear and understanding with my wife about our sex life. I have half jokingly suggested an open relationship, which she knows deep down I'm not 100% joking about.

 

My life IS sex less, she won't even use her hand on me. Apologies if that was TMI. I haven't twisted her arm to stay married at all. I gave up a lot to be with this woman, more than you'll understand here. We can talk about abuse. Isn't there any abuse on my end. Isn't not giving someone what they need and want abuse? She's the only person in the world that can give me that need but won't/can't . This isn't months, it's years.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy or understanding here. Just giving my side of the story.

 

Being honest, yes, your wife needs to fulfill your sexual needs (within reason). That is a part of the marriage vows in my opinion. If she is totally refusing you, then it's on her to fix it. But YOU need to make sure you have exhausted all avenues to fix it first, and having an affair isn't going to help. How do you think that will help long-term? You need to deal with your marriage FIRST.

[darkbloom]

Divorce is the most honorable thing to do then if that's what you truely believe. You can say whatever you want to your wife about the sex but it doesn't excuse the affair. You also have a child to think about. Are you setting a good example of morals for that kid? Me thinks not.

[still_an_Angel]

 

I'm not asking for fairness and neither do I think I'm special. I actually think I'm pretty ****ty doing what I'm doing. Special? No. Selfish? Yes.

 

The feeling of being desired is a powerful feeling. Years of being turned down and rejected takes its toll on you. It's probably been over a year since I've even had a real kiss from my W.

 

The turning point was probably the last rejection. I had just given her a long back and shoulder massage. I tried coming on to her and she said we'll do it tomorrow. I could have persisted and had sex the following day, but waited to see if she wanted to. It never happened and I knew if it did, it would be a token gesture.

 

With the OW I don't talk **** about my W. I haven't even relayed that story I just wrote.

 

 

Noted that you refer to your OW as "the OW" (actually many times in this thread) so I agree with you that what you feel for her is only just lust. You are not invested in her emotionally yet, you just enjoy her physically. I get that, that's a pretty common reason for MM having affairs. But you also probably forsee that she will be wanting more, that's normal too. But not all OWs are the same, there are some in LS who are ok with their status with their MMs (me being one). But be aware that there are so many different reasons for this, each OW and MM's relationship dynamics work in various ways. Danger is always on the horizon depending on how your OW thinks or feels.

 

 

So what happens next? I understand your feelings but don't really see a particular dilemma you want addressed. You love your wife, you love your child, and obviously not prepared to give up what you've built with your wife. So where does this leave your OW? What more do you want from her?

 

 

This is the OW/OM section but you'd probably find even the OWs and OMs here would not advocate staying in an A, it really takes its toll on everyone and lives can get blown to bits. Its a painful road.

 

 

So while you're not that attached to "the OW", this is probably a good time to save your M and let go of "the OW".

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

I've been very clear and understanding with my wife about our sex life. I have half jokingly suggested an open relationship, which she knows deep down I'm not 100% joking about.

 

My life IS sex less, she won't even use her hand on me. Apologies if that was TMI. I haven't twisted her arm to stay married at all. I gave up a lot to be with this woman, more than you'll understand here. We can talk about abuse. Isn't there any abuse on my end. Isn't not giving someone what they need and want abuse? She's the only person in the world that can give me that need but won't/can't . This isn't months, it's years.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy or understanding here. Just giving my side of the story.

 

You missed her point. Your wife does not have all the facts. She doesn't know how bad a state her marriage is in. If she knew you were actually having sex with another woman she would probably make different choices about you and her marriage. Why does your OW get full disclosure but your wife doesn't get the same respect? Your continued lying about cheating on her is the abuse. You putting her sexual health at risk is the abuse. You've brought a third person into her marriage without her consent.

 

At a bare minimum she should be allowed to decide that fact for her sexual health. You are withholding vital information from her which allows he to make decisions about her own life. It's arrogant and unjust.

[EH6]

I'm off to bed now and appreciate the feedback sincerely. It has given me a lot to think about and debate. My posts look like I'm trying to blame the wife for my actions. That is unfair and untrue. Every choice I have made, I have made willingly. I don't feel good about any of this right now, and have a lot to think about.

[Susmay]

I've been very clear and understanding with my wife about our sex life. I have half jokingly suggested an open relationship, which she knows deep down I'm not 100% joking about.

 

My life IS sex less, she won't even use her hand on me. Apologies if that was TMI. I haven't twisted her arm to stay married at all. I gave up a lot to be with this woman, more than you'll understand here. We can talk about abuse. Isn't there any abuse on my end. Isn't not giving someone what they need and want abuse? She's the only person in the world that can give me that need but won't/can't . This isn't months, it's years.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy or understanding here. Just giving my side of the story.

 

 

Unless I've misunderstood, you haven't been "very clear" with your wife at all, because she does not know the truth. The open marriage suggestion, was not even half a joke either. Basically you're lying to your wife, to manipulate her into staying married to you and that is what I meant by abuse. Essentially forcing her to live a lie and a sham.

 

 

Maybe your wife denying you what you need and want is a form of abuse, but she is not the one here asking for advice (if that's what you're doing). In any case while it's a major cause of disharmony and dissatisfaction in your marriage, any abuse by her is insignificant (IMO) compared to the abuse you are dishing out in return. Do you really believe the level of entitlement you are exhibiting and that your wife deserves what you are doing? I suspect if you really were entitled and so sure that what you're doing is justified, then you wouldn't be so secretive about it. I'm guessing you don't want anybody to think you're an abusive husband.

 

 

Anyway I've made my suggestion which is to be (brutally?) honest with your wife about how you are reacting to the situation (getting sex elsewhere). Painful as it would have been to me as a wife to hear this, ultimately it would have been less so than the tragedy that became our lives after D-day which by then was too late...

 

 

To summarise in my case, 3 families were damaged (this was due to the OW having affairs with more than one MM), one of the BS's died and a child was born during the A (paternity still unknown). I hope your D-day doesn't come with quite so much drama.

[Poppy47]

You missed her point. Your wife does not have all the facts. She doesn't know how bad a state her marriage is in. If she knew you were actually having sex with another woman she would probably make different choices about you and her marriage. Why does your OW get full disclosure but your wife doesn't get the same respect? Your continued lying about cheating on her is the abuse. You putting her sexual health at risk is the abuse. You've brought a third person into her marriage without her consent.

 

At a bare minimum she should be allowed to decide that fact for her sexual health. You are withholding vital information from her which allows he to make decisions about her own life. It's arrogant and unjust.

 

I have to agree without meaning to be harsh.

 

EH you have taken away your wife's right to make her choice about your marriage.

 

She might very well be totally sick of you and happy to divorce you. I would hate to be treated like a mushroom

 

Poppy.

[still_an_Angel]

 

 

You've brought a third person into her marriage without her consent.

 

At a bare minimum she should be allowed to decide that fact for her sexual health. You are withholding vital information from her which allows he to make decisions about her own life. It's arrogant and unjust.

 

But if EH is telling the truth about the sex-less marriage, then he probably feels absolved of this, he is not putting her sexual health at risk if there is no sexual relations in the first place. EH did say that she could barely put her hand on him.

 

 

What hurts the W in affairs is your statement about EH bringing in a third party into the marriage without her knowledge and consent.

[elaine567]

3-4 years of a sexless marriage with no affection shown by the wife, yet had a child a year ago...

Why would anyone want to bring a child into that?

I guess the real lack of sex/affection occurred after she got pregnant, she got so caught up in the pregnancy and the child, she has no room for him and hence his "need" to stray.

 

OW was not looking for a FWB - she will not be in a FWB type affair in her mind - HE is in a FWB affair and HE is assuming that is what she thinks, as it suits him to think that way.

I guess she will be pretty invested and as she has no marriage to protect, could get very vocal if the A doesn't go the way she wants.

Boom!

 

Poor wife and poor kid.

Poor OW...

Another MM led by his d*ck, causing chaos in other people's lives.

[CarrieT]

My posts look like I'm trying to blame the wife for my actions. That is unfair and untrue. Every choice I have made, I have made willingly.

 

The biggest difference is that you have stated elsewhere that you "love your wife, you really do" but that here is where you have lied:

 

I've been very clear and understanding with my wife about our sex life. I have half jokingly suggested an open relationship, which she knows deep down I'm not 100% joking about.

 

How can you have a "clear understanding" while being "half-joking?"

 

If, at any time, you stated to her up-front, "this is the last rejection I am willing to accept from you and I am now going to find someone else to sleep with." What do you think her reaction would have been?

 

If you truly loved your wife, you would give her the same opportunity at making a decision which involved her participation in the marriage as you have; whether or not she wishes to continue. You have denied her that opportunity and removed her from the equation entirely.

 

At least you are acknowledging that you don't feel good about it - on some level - but your emasculation by her will be a fraction of her degradation when she learns of the affair.

[lookingforclosure]

A wise male friend I once had told me that married men of the waffling variety end up losing both women because of their waffling, and that's exactly what will happen to you. So I urge your to pull out all the stops in fixing things in your marriage. Put your foot down and demand counseling with your wife and get yourself unafraid of divorce. Because a spouse who thinks you will never leave them no matter what will do whatever they feel like.

 

Good one Popsicle...I have a feeling that's what my xMM is about to experience for himself, loosing BOTH

[elaine567]

How can you have a "clear understanding" while being "half-joking?"

 

I half-jokingly told him I would stab him one night in his sleep.

He was a bit surprised when I did it, though surely he must of known deep down I wasn't 100% joking about it.

[eye of the storm]

My ExH will tell anyone who will listen that I would not be intimate. That I refused sex and had to be badgered into it. It was all me. And it was. I did not feel secure with him. I didn't feel comfortable with him. I was constantly on guard from his mood swings and angry with how he treated me. Not a good recipe for hot and heavy sex. I found every excuse in the book to avoid the bedroom with him. I admit it. It was me.

 

And as much as I dreaded him coming home, finding out he had been cheating on me almost destroyed me. Weird.

 

I suggest counseling. Because you may think it is all her, but your W may have a completely different story.

[autumnnight]

Don't tell your wife that her lack of intimacy is causing you to go elsewhere. That is just not true.

 

Her lack of intimacy is causing you to feel rejected, and YOUR inability to deal with that feeling of rejection is leading you to look elsewhere for validation.

 

Another important distinction.

 

 

Oh my goodness, this is the best summary of this type of situation I have ever read.

[the_artist_1970]

I'm off to bed now and appreciate the feedback sincerely. It has given me a lot to think about and debate. My posts look like I'm trying to blame the wife for my actions. That is unfair and untrue. Every choice I have made, I have made willingly. I don't feel good about any of this right now, and have a lot to think about.

 

The women in your life (W and OW) are disposable commodities to you. You are treating them both like less than human beings. Your W is wrong to not fulfill your needs because she made a vow to do so, but you cheating her is not the answer. Your W deserves to know that she is sharing her husband with another woman. She needs to be able to make choices about staying married to you and know that a third person has entered into her M. What you are doing is cruel to your W. And while you say the OW came into the A with her eyes wide open, it's really unfair to her that you see her as only a s*x machine. Ending your M would be more honorable than what you are doing. Divorce isn't as bad for some ppl. My best friend divorced her DH because of cheating years ago and she had two young children. She is happily divorced and has a new man and her children are thriving and doing well.

[whichwayisup]

Hi to everyone on this forum, I'm very much the new guy here and was drawn here by Googling other people's stories. I guess I thought I'd share my story and see what kind of advice people had. Yes I expect to be judged and that's okay.

 

First off I have been married for going on 12 years now. Last year we had our first child together and I absolutely adore our child. For maybe the last 3-4 years the sex and affection had been in a steady decline. We have talked and fought about this and nothing changes. Before we had our child the sex wasn't good either. She did it as a duty rather than from passion or want. Again we have discussed this and she doesn't do anything about it. Apart from this aspect of the relationship everything is fine. We get on really well, but are more like best friends or roommates.

 

A year and a half ago I told her in one argument that if I ever cheat, it's not all on me. There was no response. Fast forward a couple of months ago and I have started that affair.

 

It didn't happen by accident, I was looking for it. I met another woman online and we hit it off instantly. On our first date we couldn't keep our hands of each other, and I haven't felt that passion in a very long time. The second date we had sex and it was mind blowing.

 

This may sound strange, but I have been 100% honest with this woman. I never lied about my situation or made promises I couldn't keep. We text daily and meet once or twice a week.

 

I have feelings for this woman, but I think its lust more than anything else. Yes I like her and wouldn't ever want to hurt her, but I know deep down that's what will probably happen. After our first date, I gave her an out, but she was blind to it. I don't feel good about any of this, or what I'm doing to my wife and family. I don't feel good about what I'm doing to this woman either.

 

I love my wife but don't feel I can go on without any passion or sex. This woman made me feel like a man again and the urge and desire is through the roof. She has promised me that should would never do anything to mess up my home life or hurt me and I believe her.

 

Deep down I know this is wrong, but it feels so right.

 

Divorce your wife. You're caking eating and being really selfish! All on the expense of your wife and child. You want to stay married, have the benefits of living at home, do family stuff then you have your OW on the side for sex and fun, all the meanwhile your OW is falling deeper and deeper for you and you're lying and betraying your wife.

 

This affair and cheating is ALL ON YOU! This is not your wife's fault. She hasn't made you cheat, you chose this! You could have divorced, discussed an open marriage, or just told your wife out right - I am going to have sex on the side and if you can't handle it then we divorce or fix things between us.

[whichwayisup]

Thanks for the feedback. Don't know how to do the whole multi quote thing but will do my best to answer the question.

 

First off I made no promises. Was clear that I won't leave my wife, and that was looking to find a FWB type thing. I don't believe that she was lookimg for that, but here we are.

 

Am I going to have an affair for my entire marriage? That's a good question that I can't answer. In my head I have imagined being caught, which is very likely. I figure the marriage will end, or through counseling get better. Do I want to get caught? No. Bearing in mind this is all new territory for me, and not something I have any experience doing.

 

Why not GO to counseling with your wife NOW while she still loves you and respects you and trusts you? Why wait until you get caught and turn her life upside down? Or just divorce her so she can find a man who won't cheat on her and you can be with a woman who will give you all the sex you want.

[whichwayisup]

The feeling of being wanted and desired. Looking in to that other persons eyes and seeing the want and desire in there eyes. All those things make me feel like a man again.

 

What you are actually looking for, validation, affection, appreciation etc, is all stuff you should be getting from your wife. If you push your wife hard enough, remember why you two got married years ago, maybe going on dates, making her feel special and loved, adored and respected, then maybe she would give you more sex. When was the last time you just did something kind for your wife? Held her hand, kissed her. watched a movie and cuddled? I get what you said, she isn't into it much anymore (sex wise) but you should know women need to have other emotions and feelings met so they can feel good and want sex. If she feels like she's just a walking vagina for you to sleep with, of course she won't want to make love to you. See what I'm saying here?

 

Come on be fair, she has the choice to end it too. I never twisted this woman's arm, or even lied to her. She's in this with her eyes wide open.

 

I agree, she knows you're married and not leaving but your actions (being friends, hanging out, having sex, being intimate, sharing/talking/bonding) shows her otherwise. Emotions and heart vs head and gut... She knows but eventually her feelings will intensify and she WILL want more. Most can't stay in FWB or affairs for very long because feelings always get in the way.

 

She doesn't have the strength to end it with you because she thinks eventually you WILL leave and want to be with her. She has hope...And hope is dangerous for an OW.

 

I expected to get flamed pretty bad for my post and that's okay. I know what I'm doing is wrong, and honestly battle with myself every day for the choice I have made.

 

I hear you all say why don't I divorce my wife. I love her I truly do, and that's what makes what I'm doing difficult. I'm sure I'll hear that I don't love her because of what I'm doing but your wrong about that.

 

I'm not asking for fairness and neither do I think I'm special. I actually think I'm pretty ****ty doing what I'm doing. Special? No. Selfish? Yes.

 

The feeling of being desired is a powerful feeling. Years of being turned down and rejected takes its toll on you. It's probably been over a year since I've even had a real kiss from my W.

 

The turning point was probably the last rejection. I had just given her a long back and shoulder massage. I tried coming on to her and she said we'll do it tomorrow. I could have persisted and had sex the following day, but waited to see if she wanted to. It never happened and I knew if it did, it would be a token gesture.

 

With the OW I don't talk **** about my W. I haven't even relayed that story I just wrote.

 

You love your wife but you don't respect her or your vows/marriage/family life.

 

IF you did, you wouldn't do the one thing that is gonna tear your family unit apart.

 

I've been very clear and understanding with my wife about our sex life. I have half jokingly suggested an open relationship, which she knows deep down I'm not 100% joking about.

 

My life IS sex less, she won't even use her hand on me. Apologies if that was TMI. I haven't twisted her arm to stay married at all. I gave up a lot to be with this woman, more than you'll understand here. We can talk about abuse. Isn't there any abuse on my end. Isn't not giving someone what they need and want abuse? She's the only person in the world that can give me that need but won't/can't . This isn't months, it's years.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy or understanding here. Just giving my side of the story.

 

I say be honest with your wife and lay it all out on the table, allow her to choose what she wants. To forgive you, work with you to make the marriage better as husband and wife, maybe she will agree to an open marriage so she can meet a man on the side too. IT is very possible she just isn't sexually attracted to you anymore...Maybe life got in the way, resentments built up, she detached from you... It's obvious neither of you are feeling the 'in love' feelings and passion anymore for one another.

 

You are unhappy and I'm guessing your wife is too.

 

I'm off to bed now and appreciate the feedback sincerely. It has given me a lot to think about and debate. My posts look like I'm trying to blame the wife for my actions. That is unfair and untrue. Every choice I have made, I have made willingly. I don't feel good about any of this right now, and have a lot to think about.

 

My posts are honest and harsh so please don't be offended by what I've said. I hope my words help or make you stop and think before too much damage is done.

[Grapesofwrath]

Three points:

 

1) Many women lose their desire for sex after childbirth. Sometimes due to medical issues, sometimes the overwhelm of first-time motherhood, sometimes due to body image issues, and for many other reasons as well. If she was never a particularly sexual person in the first place, then there can be even more factors at play, and you would have known this about her going into the marriage.

 

2) I agree with those posters asserting that you do NOT have a clear understanding with your wife. You have made a unilateral decision about how to address the sexlessness of your marriage, a decision that entails lying and deception. In my experience, unilateral decision making in a marriage is generally a bad idea.

 

3) I don't believe that what you are missing in your marriage is sex. I think you are missing intimacy. If all you wanted was someone to supply some sexual release, you could manage that need by visiting any number of strip clubs, prostitutes, escorts, etc. What you want is someone to want you. You want a girlfriend, but without the emotional entanglement. In this way, you are quite cruel to your OW. You want intimacy from her, including physical intimacy. Please be honest with yourself about that. You like the way she looks at you, the way she touches you, the anticipation of seeing each other, the way she talks to you. You desire the private, closeness that you share. That's intimacy, with sex as part of that package. Asking someone for intimacy and then being unwilling to return it is exquisitely selfish.