whichwayisup Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Nice list Alpha. I'm surprised! Reading it just makes alot of sense...Especially coming from you. A for Alpha! Good boy! Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 This would be the 'embittered single cynic's guide to getting young, inexperienced chickies'. Real women would have nothing to do with that bullshyt. Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme This would be the 'embittered single cynic's guide to getting young, inexperienced chickies'. Real women would have nothing to do with that bullshyt. Ah, but Angus, no true scotswoman puts sugar on her porridge. Link to post Share on other sites
Lonestar Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Don't have time to read all the replies, but I think the list is pretty good. YOu have been paying attention to women, Alpha A lot of that can also be applied in the reverse to keep a man interested in a women... Reading back, I see Merin already touched on this. Great minds think alike sweets! Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Thank you for your honest post, Alpha. I recognize my BF in all you wrote. So what's the antidote for such a man? Link to post Share on other sites
faux Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 This list looks like an information pamphlet on misogyny. I would think that such a list which promotes male dominance and female submission would not be applauded here on LoveShack; maybe I give some people more credit than they deserve. Sometimes I almost feel like Hamlet in this sense. I like what Moimeme said. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 This list looks like an information pamphlet on misogyny. Exactly. And it becomes painfully clear that even smart, independent women have somehow been brainwashed to believe this type of behaviour on the part of men is acceptable. Really, really sad. The other option is that people are just going along to humour someone they consider a buffoon. Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 List looked fine to me. If you feel the need to memorize that list, or print it and carry around in your wallet, you're missing the point. All that stuff should pretty much come naturally, not because you're trying to manipulate a woman, but because you know what you want. Acting like you know what you want in life is a poor substitute for actually knowing. I, for instance, could not make such a list. Being a jerk to my girlfriend is automatic for me. The real pros don't need recipes. Link to post Share on other sites
ggallin13 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Jesus, that is so true it's incredible. Sadly, easy to read, tough to put into practice. At least for me, I have only recently come to these realizations and \old habits are hard to break. I was an idiot and listened to my mom who always told me, "Treat her well and be nice and don't push for sex and make sure you are always there emotionally." GREAT. As you may imagine, I have had some really close friends that are girls using that technique. I recently started listening to my little sister and things have changed 180. I am lucky to have her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author alphamale Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by johan I, for instance, could not make such a list. Being a jerk to my girlfriend is automatic for me. The real pros don't need recipes. no JOHAN, we are just trying to spread the wealth and assist certain males who may not be aware of these things. there are many of them out there, god help their souls. Link to post Share on other sites
Author alphamale Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by ggallin13 I was an idiot and listened to my mom who always told me, "Treat her well and be nice and don't push for sex and make sure you are always there emotionally." GREAT. mother are great for certain things GGALLIN13. unfortunately mothers are terrible at trying to teach their sons on how to be a real man. they are women and don't know how to tell u to be a man. imagine your father trying to tell your sister how to be a real feminine woman Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I don't see anything misogynistic in the list. It may be a perception of misogyny - but having dated my fair share of women, I can see it from another angle: In that list I see strong self-preservation and boundaries. A refusal to be dominated. A refusal to be passive and deny certain character traits, no matter how negative they may be. Emotional strength without being over-emotional. Self-protection, and no hesitancy to dish out what he gets served. Strong sense of individuality and boundaries of self. Refusal to be a doormat. Confident, self assured. Refusal to be used, or taken advantage of, or taken for granted. A man like this will not allow himself to be an obligation - he will see himself as a prize to be won, not something to be despised or made to be an inconvenience. This is a man who knows himself to be a man, and will allow a woman to be a woman in the truest sense: and will not allow her to force him to fit to any ideal she has. It isn't a hatred of women, so much as it is a man's refusal to take on feminine characteristics. It looks more to me like a list of ways for men to prevent themselves from being manipulated into being the passive, gentle feminine ideal of a man. The feminine ideal of a man has him being more like a woman in his ways/emotions. It backfires on women though... from my experience, women generally don't like to date their own emotion-type kind, so the feminine ideal of a man ends up being "the friend guy", and are passed up for the men who act like nothing more than what they are: emotionally strong (and yes, often difficult) men. They complain about not being able to find 'nice guys' and when they finally find a man to geld in that way, they become quickly bored with him. The more he allows himself to be changed by her, the more likely it is he will be dumped. What drew her to him in the first place was lost when he allowed her to geld him into being a 'nice guy'. The bottom line? Be yourself. Don't allow anyone to change who you basically are. This works both ways - for men and for women. I've dated plenty of women in my time, and plenty of men - and can say that from personal experience. Is it a blanket statement for all men and women? Certainly not. There are exceptions to every rule. Link to post Share on other sites
Author alphamale Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia I don't see anything misogynistic in the list. from my experience, women generally don't like to date their own emotion-type kind, so the feminine ideal of a man ends up being "the friend guy", and are passed up for the men who act like nothing more than what they are: emotionally strong (and yes, often difficult) men. The more he allows himself to be changed by her, the more likely it is he will be dumped. superb points LUCREZIABORGIA, and thanx for validation. Link to post Share on other sites
ggallin13 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale mother are great for certain things GGALLIN13. unfortunately mothers are terrible at trying to teach their sons on how to be a real man. they are women and don't know how to tell u to be a man. imagine your father trying to tell your sister how to be a real feminine woman Tell me about it. My parents were divorced when I was halfway through the first grade, and my mom never remarried. No in-house male role model. That actually rules, though, because I talk to and understand women better than anyone else I know. I have just been picking the wrong ones for whatever reason. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 A refusal to be dominated. And an insistence on domination. A refusal to be passive and deny certain character traits, no matter how negative they may be. 'Accept me as I am, even if I am a Neanderthal'. Emotional strength without being over-emotional. 'Pretending to have no emotions because Society dictates that men need to be rough, tough, and - oo oo MACHO!' Self-protection, and no hesitancy to dish out what he gets served. 'Without first stopping to ascertain if he was indeed served anything at all. Unreasonable, in fact.' Refusal to be used, or taken advantage of, or taken for granted. 'And to do so rudely and unforgivingly.' and will allow a woman to be a woman in the truest sense Apparently, that means 'subservient and obsequious'. It isn't a hatred of women, so much as it is a man's refusal to take on feminine characteristics. Because 'feminine' characteristics like compassion and mercy are what - undesirable? Nice that you hate women, too. The feminine ideal of a man has him being more like a woman in his ways/emotions. No. The ideal of a man is that he is confident enough in himself to have and express his ways/emotions without fearing beng thought of as 'unmasculine'. Because every human has emotions. You are citing the Harlequin Romance ideal of the strong-jawed Fabio-type. Blech. so the feminine ideal of a man ends up being "the friend guy", and are passed up for the men who act like nothing more than what they are: emotionally strong (and yes, often difficult) men. That so many women have been brainwashed by the romance genre into believing that the Fabio hero is the ideal man is nothing to admire. It's a sad fact of society and I hope it's remedied someday. They complain about not being able to find 'nice guys' and when they finally find a man to geld in that way, they become quickly bored with him. Bull. Many of the LS ladies have 'nice guys' they adore. I have absolutely no patience with pseudo-macho fools. Playing society's role is kinda sad. Refusing to bow to stereotypes is true individuality and confidence. The more he allows himself to be changed by her, the more likely it is he will be dumped. What drew her to him in the first place was lost when he allowed her to geld him into being a 'nice guy'. Then they go to work and bitch endlessly about what a jerk they got stuck with. He's a nice myth until you have to live with him. Don't allow anyone to change who you basically are. Which means if you are a man who's unafraid to have and show emotions, to be compassionate and kind and understanding, you should not change either, right? Oh wait - your whole post just contradicted that. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Its interesting what you chose to read into each of my statements and how you followed them to your own conclusions. What would be your counters to each of AlphaMale's points? How would you amend his statements to reflect a more "accurate" view of how men should be to ensure keeping women in their lives? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 be funny, generous, arrogant, sensitive, happy, assertive and a jerk all rolled up in one be funny, generous, good-natured, positive, sensitive, happy, assertive, and honest all rolled up into one. -be nice and respectful when she treats you well --be mean and nasty when she does not treat you well If she does not treat you well, discuss it with her. Tell her you expect to be treated with respect, kindness, and consideration. However if you aren't doing so in return, you have no right to expect it yourself. -don't be there all the time for her and don't do everything she wants You are each other's 'soft place to land'. You are a team - when the world gets one of you down, the role of the other is to support. Discuss your respective roles and desires and come to reasonable consensus on issues where you disagree. -make her the center of your life when you are with her and be independent and have your -own interests when you are not with her Each should have his or her own interests; but not to the extent that you neglect each other. As in everything, aim for balance. -make sure she knows you can exist fine without her in your life Each of you should take a whole person into the relationship - not depend on the other to make him/herself whole -be the leader at all times and dominate when you have to The effective team works best sometimes with one person leading, others with another, and yet others when the team works together. -make yourself number one but always keep her needs, wants and desires a close number two You know you really love when you want her happiness more. This does not mean self-abnegation. If you don't get that, then you're not in love. -minimize jealousy and possessiveness. strong display of both good and bad emotions should be avoided Bad emotions are poisonous; avoid creating them, causing them, or being involved in them. Coast on the highest of good emotions and certainly display them when the situation warrants it. If the kid gets a goal - leap and shout. Everybody needs a cheering section. -only be friends with her in the context of a romantic relationship (this is very impt) Many mature, reasonable people have discovered the loves of their lives in their friends. There are friends and friends. Some friends are 'let's take it slowly and see if anything develops' friends and others are 'we'll be friends and no more' . Understand the difference. Link to post Share on other sites
whtelightn Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 be funny, generous, good-natured, positive, sensitive, happy, assertive, and honest all rolled up into one. I was that but it did not help. -be nice and respectful when she treats you well I did that but when I treated her well , it scared her or did not know how to handle it. She ran. --be mean and nasty when she does not treat you well After 10 months of the split I might just have to be nasty, maybe she will understand or will like it. -don't be there all the time for her and don't do everything she wants Maybe that was a mistake when we were together, that I was there most of the time in her saying I am always around. -make her the center of your life when you are with her and be independent and have your -own interests when you are not with her Trust me I did that but after 6 months together she ran and got scared. Never gave me a good enough reason why. -make sure she knows you can exist fine without her in your life I have been trying to do that. -be the leader at all times and dominate when you have to Cannot answer this one. -make yourself number one but always keep her needs, wants and desires a close number two Again I did that when we were together and it seems too much for her. -minimize jealousy and possessiveness. strong display of both good and bad emotions should be avoided She admitted to me that she gets jealous and knew when women were looking at me. -only be friends with her in the context of a romantic relationship (this is very impt) I am trying to be, but I think she still does not know what she wants. Since we work together she has made the effort in speaking to me and there was silence for 3 months until she broke the NC. Now I wonder if I am setting myself back with her. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 People don't generally leave because of something you did, unless you mistreat them. They leave because of their own issues. So trying to twist yourself into various permutations of character and behaviour will leave you a pretzel without a lasting relationship. Learn to be a good partnet - which does NOT mean mistreating people on purpose - and eventually someone worthy of living with you will come along. Link to post Share on other sites
shamen Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale -be funny, generous, arrogant, sensitive, happy, assertive and a jerk all rolled up in one -be nice and respectful when she treats you well -be mean and nasty when she does not treat you well -don't be there all the time for her and don't do everything she wants -make her the center of your life when you are with her and be independent and have your -own interests when you are not with her -make sure she knows you can exist fine without her in your life -be the leader at all times and dominate when you have to -make yourself number one but always keep her needs, wants and desires a close number two -minimize jealousy and possessiveness. strong display of both good and bad emotions should be avoided -only be friends with her in the context of a romantic relationship (this is very impt) Otherwise known as Alphamale's guide to never making a real connection to anyone... Or, Alphamale's guide to staying single perpetually... Or, Alphamale's guide to being a serial monogamist (whoops, maybe not)... I don't know, there are points in this that I see that are good (things that I do), but I also know that I'm not great at having any real relationships. I'm not out here to get married. So, I see this list more as a list for people who are interested in short term relationships (or even long-term) that really aren't going to last. Just MHO as someone who has done many of these same things in my past, as a woman. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 So, I see this list more as a list for people who are interested in short term relationships (or even long-term) that really aren't going to last Exactly. It's Alphamale's Guide to Non-Involvement. Link to post Share on other sites
glow2 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Alphamale's guide to keeping women around Interesting list....good tips for single young, dudes who just want to have fun. Not what I expected to hear coming from a 40 yr old man though. Link to post Share on other sites
shamen Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Exactly. It's Alphamale's Guide to Non-Involvement. What I find curious, Moi, is why so many of the married/involved woman say that that is who their husband/SO is. Ladies, please help me out. Because... I know that I've used a lot of these ideas to stay single. To stay emotionally unconnected... Not that I had Alpha's list, I just did them naturally out of self preservation. I just walk away when I've had enough, sometimes it's horribly painful, but I always leave. So, let me add to Alpha's guide for keeping PEOPLE around (not just women, works just as well for guys)... -be sure to leave when you get bored and they'll come running after you Word of caution to the reader: Please keep in mind that this is best done after several years when things start to go sour... Make the relationship last as long as it's fun. (I'm from the East Coast, this is all said with sarcasm... but I've lived it!) Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 I'm not much fond of anyone who uses people for their own amusement. There is already too much pain on the planet - what can be the justification for adding to it? Link to post Share on other sites
BrotherAaron Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Why is it that I have a feeling that my grandfather, happily married for 60 years, would give me an entirely different list? I'm sorry alpha, but it's hard to take relationship advice seriously from a single 40 year old male. Breaking up seems to be your specialty, not keeping women around. Women look for a macho man initially, but want to end up with somebody who's more than just a walking male ego. A true lover will never place you as "a close second", but an even first. You're not talking about falling in love here. What girl wants a man too insecure to allow himself to fall in love, and too afraid of looking weak to show emotion? You don't have to avoid emotions, you just have to be in control of them. That's what strength is. Women - all people - are attracted to a person who is strong, confident, and independent, but still caring and willing to put other people first. Link to post Share on other sites
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