Ruined it for all involved

[cocorico]

Lawyer warfare has begun.

More than half of my money was withdrawn from our joint savings account and I got a text saying she has retained the best team of lawyers in town!

Looks like this is going from bad to worse.

 

if it's in a joint savings account, it's no longer your (singular) money, it's your (plural) money. If you wanted it to be yours alone you should have left it in your private account and protected it with an ante-nuptial contract, or a close corporation, or some other measure to exclude it from joint assets. My H and his xW had separate finances, and each put an agreed amount in the joint account for household expense each month. Beside that, and the shares each held in the house, what was his was his, and what was hers was hers. It made asset division on divorce very easy and clear.

[LivingWaterPlease]

OP, a few thoughts for you. Seems to me your wife has made things easier for you by deciding to file for divorce. Now you don't have to agonize over the decision.

 

Were I in your place I'd definitely contact OW and advise her as to your current situation (going through a D) and that you hope to contact her when it's over. Explain to her you know you've made a mess of the situation, deeply regret it, and are working toward handling your R's with all involved (Wife, OW, Son and baby-to-be) in the most honorable way you know how to at this point.

 

You asked if anyone on here had experienced a successful long term R with an affair partner. I personally know of about 25 marriages that have resulted from affairs in which the man left his wife for another woman. These are not all my friends, just people I have observed go through the process over the years. Some of the women were single but some were married and also left a spouse. Two of these marriages have ended in D. One of the D marriages lasted approx fifteen years and the other lasted approx ten years.

 

I know of a 90-year-old man who is married to a 65-year-old woman he left his wife for and married about thirty years ago. I know the woman in this R and she steadfastly professes to love this man with all her heart and soul even to this day although she is quite tied down taking care of him at this point.

 

I know of another couple in which the H died a year ago who were the same age when they had an A and each left their M for each other. They were married decades before his death and had a good life together from what she's told me.

 

Last weekend one of my closest girlfriend's exHs married the OW he left her for. The exH who remarried last weekend had been a serial cheater for most of the marriage (over 30 years) but finally became involved with a woman he considered worth leaving his W for. His W, my friend, is a wonderful woman in every way and is highly respected in our community.

 

I made friends (IRL) with a person on LS who ended up having the married AP leave for them. When I asked if the person would come back and post the results of the A they expressed reluctance to do so and as yet haven't returned to post. They are not yet married to the AP but are leading a very normal life and an engagement ring has been purchased.

 

Interestingly, I don't know of a case where the married person left while in an affair and didn't marry the AP, except for my own exH, who didn't marry his AP after leaving me and in fact, broke up with her before our D was final.

 

Two high profile men in our community within the past six weeks have just left their wives for their OW's. One of the marriages was the result of an affair many years ago. Don't know about the other one.

 

I doubt true statistics as to the results of MM/MW divorcing and marrying their AP's are available as it's possible and seems probable to me that most couples resulting from affairs (that I know of) are wanting to forget about how their relationship began so probably are not going to participate in surveys dealing with such or broadcast the fact of how their M/R began once they're divorced from the original partner.

 

It seems to me, also, that by the time an OW/OM (or MOW/MOM) gets to LS to post about their R with a MM/MW many of them may have reached a point of frustration with their R/AP not leaving their marriage so already are the R's that probably won't make it to M so possibly posters on LS have a lower level of ending up with their APs than OW/OM (or MOW/MOM) IRL.

 

I do recall a poster (LilGirlOtherWoman, something like that) who chronicled her way through an A relationship here and ended up with her MM.

Edited May 25, 2015 by LivingWaterPlease

[sandylee1]

OP, a few thoughts for you. Seems to me your wife has made things easier for you by deciding to file for divorce. Now you don't have to agonize over the decision.

 

Were I in your place I'd definitely contact OW and advise her as to your current situation (going through a D) and that you hope to contact her when it's over. Explain to her you know you've made a mess of the situation, deeply regret it, and are working toward handling your R's with all involved (Wife, OW, Son and baby-to-be) in the most honorable way you know how to at this .

 

 

I'm wondering if the OW would think she only got him by default.

[truncated]

Something to think about...

 

according to statistics, first marriage divorce rates are 45-50 percent, second marriages 60-67 percent, and third 70-73 percent.

 

This does not mean that a arraignment that started as an affair is doomed to fail, but rather that such a marraige has the odds stacked against it, as both parties will enter it carrying extra baggage that they might not have otherwise have had to, and both parties will need to put in extra effort to make it work.

 

Are you willing to do that? If not, best leave the ow alone, for her sake.

[No Limit]

Are you willing to do that? If not, best leave the ow alone, for her sake.

 

But if it was true love, wouldn't it be a terrible mistake to keep two soulmates forever seperated?

[RoseVille]

OP, a few thoughts for you. Seems to me your wife has made things easier for you by deciding to file for divorce. Now you don't have to agonize over the decision.

 

Were I in your place I'd definitely contact OW and advise her as to your current situation (going through a D) and that you hope to contact her when it's over. Explain to her you know you've made a mess of the situation, deeply regret it, and are working toward handling your R's with all involved (Wife, OW, Son and baby-to-be) in the most honorable way you know how to at this point.

 

You asked if anyone on here had experienced a successful long term R with an affair partner. I personally know of about 25 marriages that have resulted from affairs in which the man left his wife for another woman. These are not all my friends, just people I have observed go through the process over the years. Some of the women were single but some were married and also left a spouse. Two of these marriages have ended in D. One of the D marriages lasted approx fifteen years and the other lasted approx ten years.

 

I know of a 90-year-old man who is married to a 65-year-old woman he left his wife for and married about thirty years ago. I know the woman in this R and she steadfastly professes to love this man with all her heart and soul even to this day although she is quite tied down taking care of him at this point.

 

I know of another couple in which the H died a year ago who were the same age when they had an A and each left their M for each other. They were married decades before his death and had a good life together from what she's told me.

 

Last weekend one of my closest girlfriend's exHs married the OW he left her for. The exH who remarried last weekend had been a serial cheater for most of the marriage (over 30 years) but finally became involved with a woman he considered worth leaving his W for. His W, my friend, is a wonderful woman in every way and is highly respected in our community.

 

I made friends (IRL) with a person on LS who ended up having the married AP leave for them. When I asked if the person would come back and post the results of the A they expressed reluctance to do so and as yet haven't returned to post. They are not yet married to the AP but are leading a very normal life and an engagement ring has been purchased.

 

Interestingly, I don't know of a case where the married person left while in an affair and didn't marry the AP, except for my own exH, who didn't marry his AP after leaving me and in fact, broke up with her before our D was final.

 

Two high profile men in our community within the past six weeks have just left their wives for their OW's. One of the marriages was the result of an affair many years ago. Don't know about the other one.

 

I doubt true statistics as to the results of MM/MW divorcing and marrying their AP's are available as it's possible and seems probable to me that most couples resulting from affairs (that I know of) are wanting to forget about how their relationship began so probably are not going to participate in surveys dealing with such or broadcast the fact of how their M/R began once they're divorced from the original partner.

 

It seems to me, also, that by the time an OW/OM (or MOW/MOM) gets to LS to post about their R with a MM/MW many of them may have reached a point of frustration with their R/AP not leaving their marriage so already are the R's that probably won't make it to M so possibly posters on LS have a lower level of ending up with their APs than OW/OM (or MOW/MOM) IRL.

 

I do recall a poster (LilGirlOtherWoman, something like that) who chronicled her way through an A relationship here and ended up with her MM.

 

That's a whole ton of success stories... I only know of a handful of people.

[sandylee1]

But if it was true love, wouldn't it be a terrible mistake to keep two soulmates forever seperated?

 

Sometimes love just isn't enough. The lies and lack of trust are just too much in some cases. If the OW believed when he said he wasn't sleeping with his wife, then she's got all the proof that she was lied to.

 

It's one thing being the OW who's MM left his wife, but when the wife was pregnant. ........ that doesn't make either of them look like good people at all. The damage to the OPs and OWs reputation if it was exposed could ruin them both. It's not the best foundation for a relationship at all.

 

OPs son is old enough to know what cheating is. It's likely to be a challenge to portray yourself as a role model father, when you cheated on your son's mother while she was pregnant with his little brother.

 

Sometimes, too much damage has been caused to sail off into the sunset. One needs to get real because life isn't a fairytale.

[LivingWaterPlease]

That's a whole ton of success stories... I only know of a handful of people.

 

About a year or so ago there was a thread about this, and I made a list of those I know that came to around ten or so. Then over the next few days I began to think of more couples that began as A's. And over the months I've thought of even more so it's at least that many (in the twenties, think I posted 25 or more?).

 

Sorry, OP, didn't mean to t/j.

[minimariah]

You asked if anyone on here had experienced a successful long term R with an affair partner.

 

to answer this OP's questions - i know A LOT "post-affair" success stories... probably over 50 couples. many couples started out as an A & most of those relationships last until this day -- for many, many years.

 

people leave for their AP & most importantly - they stay and live happily with their AP for MANY years, a lot more than folks would like to think. it happens a lot, but most of these people kind of keep that story to themselves.

 

also, a lot make the transition from an A to a "normal" marriage without ever revealing the A -- so there is that. my boss has been with his wife for over 40 years and it wasn't until recently that he told me that they actually started out as an A that lasted for two years.

 

it happens, most definitely. people leave their partners for someone else all the time - some of them work out, some don't. in my experience -- most of the marriages that started out as As DO last.

[Edge of despair]

So I retained an attorney today. She wanted a $5000 retainer and snidely remarked "but this is going to cost you much more than my retainer." I felt like she was looking at me with disgust as I told her my story. From reading the replies on here I can see that most people feel that way.

While I was in the affair everything seemed wonderful, but now I really can't imagine it (life) being any worse. OW won't respond to my texts, so I don't see a reunion in the future.

How do I make lemonade out if these lemons?

[ladydesigner]

How do I make lemonade out if these lemons?

 

Take it day by day and try to improve yourself. Maybe figure out why you chose such a destructive way to get out of a marriage. I would start seeing a counselor too.

[ladydesigner]

to answer this OP's questions - i know A LOT "post-affair" success stories... probably over 50 couples. many couples started out as an A & most of those relationships last until this day -- for many, many years.

 

people leave for their AP & most importantly - they stay and live happily with their AP for MANY years, a lot more than folks would like to think. it happens a lot, but most of these people kind of keep that story to themselves.

 

also, a lot make the transition from an A to a "normal" marriage without ever revealing the A -- so there is that. my boss has been with his wife for over 40 years and it wasn't until recently that he told me that they actually started out as an A that lasted for two years.

 

it happens, most definitely. people leave their partners for someone else all the time - some of them work out, some don't. in my experience -- most of the marriages that started out as As DO last.

 

While the bolded may be true, they are not always HAPPY. Usually the WS still has that same character that led them into an A. If both parties do not figure out what flaw in them caused them to behave so destructively their new marriage is most likely not an ideal marriage either. My parents are an affair success story. Both my mom and dad were married at the time they met. They immediately left their spouses to be together. A true exit affair. Then my mom went on to have 3 more affairs on my dad. So it was not a match made in heaven to say the least.

[No Limit]

Counseling is definitely a good idea. When people hit their lowest points they're more open to the biggest change - if positive or negative is and always has been in your hands. Perhaps family life was never something you were cut out for, although the timing to get out was way too late - but better late than never, no? And you still have two kids from that time - even if your STBX seems vengeful now give her some time after the divorce, she should be much more amicable regarding the parenting schedule when the dust has settled.

[viciouscircle]

So I retained an attorney today. She wanted a $5000 retainer and snidely remarked "but this is going to cost you much more than my retainer." I felt like she was looking at me with disgust as I told her my story. From reading the replies on here I can see that most people feel that way.

While I was in the affair everything seemed wonderful, but now I really can't imagine it (life) being any worse. OW won't respond to my texts, so I don't see a reunion in the future.

How do I make lemonade out if these lemons?

 

 

 

My stbx and I have spent over 60k in legal fees, we have no children and we have no great empire to divide. Once her "soulmate" dumped her she has fought tooth and nail everything single item. Do yourself a favor now, even your best case scenario your going to get bent over. Accept that, cut yourself a fair deal and get it over with. I don't mean give your spouse everything she wants but think long and hard before you start fighting too much. Often by the time a divorce gets done you don't even remember the initial reason the divorce got started so much bad blood gets drawn.

 

 

Your lawyer wasn't judging you most likely, all lawyers are heartless creatures with little personality. She was probably eyeing you up as her new car payment. Lawyers view every client as a billing machine, nothing more.

 

 

Quit contacting the OW. Your indecision has already cost that relationship, all your doing right now is telling her again she was plan B. Your spouse filed, you didn't. Texting and trying to get a hold of her now just looks like she was plan B. Respect her enough to allow to move on with her life and make her own decisions. Just because your suddenly "available" doesn't mean she will run back to you.

 

 

The next few months will most likely be a humbling experience for you and I don't say that to sound harsh or mean. Its gonna get worse, these are the joys of divorce. The lemonade...learn to be the best father you can be, learn from your mistakes a strive to be a better man.

[RoseVille]

to answer this OP's questions - i know A LOT "post-affair" success stories... probably over 50 couples. many couples started out as an A & most of those relationships last until this day -- for many, many years.

 

people leave for their AP & most importantly - they stay and live happily with their AP for MANY years, a lot more than folks would like to think. it happens a lot, but most of these people kind of keep that story to themselves.

 

also, a lot make the transition from an A to a "normal" marriage without ever revealing the A -- so there is that. my boss has been with his wife for over 40 years and it wasn't until recently that he told me that they actually started out as an A that lasted for two years.

 

it happens, most definitely. people leave their partners for someone else all the time - some of them work out, some don't. in my experience -- most of the marriages that started out as As DO last.

 

Oh Mariah...

 

Both so good and so bad for a sad little OW to hear!

[10thengineerharrison]

With all the trappings of success- a huge house, a second home on the water, a boat, fancy cars, a beautiful little boy, a hot wife, plenty of money- yet something was missing.

 

Integrity. That's what was missing. It still is.

 

I discovered my true life partner was in the office just 25' away from me. She's not really young, not really successful, but she was everything I've ever wanted.

 

True life partner? Well, at least you both have similar values.

 

Someday you'll hear a quote about happiness. Well, today actually: "Happiness is not getting what you want, it's wanting what you have." Think about it.

 

It sounds so cliche-

 

Because that's all that it is.

 

Naturally I would come up with clever lies and cover stories to account for my late nights and out of town trips.

 

If that's "natural" to you, then your family is a whole lot better off without you.

 

The rest of this is really difficult to read on a full stomach...

 

I used to be a confident and optimistic man. Now I am alone and scared and fearful.

 

I think you need to learn the difference between loneliness and solitude. Explore solitude for a while.

 

For those of you thinking about going for the OW/OM- don't!

End your marriage first, or be ready to accept your living hell.

 

This is more pathetic tripe, masked as a "voice of experience." It's tripe because you could have avoided all of this by being honest with the one and only person you promised to open your heart to - your wife. Your living hell is entirely of your own making. It's not your wife's or even the OW's fault you're this miserable.

 

Be prepared, though. Once your wife realizes you're still comparing life going forward with her with that other choice that you never really had any right to consider making - restarting a relationship with the OW - she'll make your decision for you, baby or no. And she may surprise you with how quickly she does.

 

-10th Engineer Harrison.

[sandylee1]

So I retained an attorney today. She wanted a $5000 retainer and snidely remarked "but this is going to cost you much more than my retainer." I felt like she was looking at me with disgust as I told her my story. From reading the replies on here I can see that most people feel that way.

While I was in the affair everything seemed wonderful, but now I really can't imagine it (life) being any worse. OW won't respond to my texts, so I don't see a reunion in the future.

How do I make lemonade out if these lemons?

 

I think by being a bit more than fair with the division of assets, there will be less for your wife to fight you on and the attorney fees will be less. Her attorney will advise her to accept your more than fair offer. So eventhough legally it's 50%, if you give more it could be cheaper in the long run. Remember you have years ahead to make more money and it's not going to be so easy for your wife with an infant.

 

Things seemed great in the affair because you were getting the best of both worlds. It wasn't reality. Remember that your OW was seeing your best side. Not having to deal with the daily issues of kids, bills, family . You have easy talks and wild sex, without the realities of life. That's why betrayed spouses say it's never fair for them, because affair life always wins where fun and enjoyment are concerned, but we all know life is much more than that.

 

As far as making lemonade out of lemons, one thing to realise is you can't change what's happened and beating yourself up over it won't help or change the past. It seems awful now, but in a few years time, it won't be as bad. Your youngest son will not know any different, so you have a great chance to do well by him. Always make time for your children and don't fail to pick them up when you promise etc, don't give your stbxw any opportunity to say your not a good dad post divorce.

 

Keep up with the therapy and I do hope you settled with a suitable one.

 

It might help to recognise your wife's pain and sincerely apologise for everything you've put her through. I know she might think it's too little too late, but you still have to coparent with her and just knowing that you can say you messed up big time will show a bit of decency. Just saying you should have dealt with issues you felt there were in the marriage differently, without placing any blame on her. I'm not sure if she's even speaking to you at the moment, but it's just a thought.

[cocorico]

So I retained an attorney today. She wanted a $5000 retainer and snidely remarked "but this is going to cost you much more than my retainer." I felt like she was looking at me with disgust as I told her my story. From reading the replies on here I can see that most people feel that way.

While I was in the affair everything seemed wonderful, but now I really can't imagine it (life) being any worse. OW won't respond to my texts, so I don't see a reunion in the future.

How do I make lemonade out if these lemons?

 

If you feel your lawyer disapproves, change your lawyer. You want to be able to trust that your lawyer will be completely on your side and ensure that the settlement is fair.

 

And I don't agree with other posters that you should roll over and let your S2BXW take as much as she wants. This isn't just about her, or her and you - it's also about your kids. If you're planning on sharing custody, you need to ensure that both their homes are of the same standard, so that they're not "slumming it" when they're at yours, or at hers. Asset division is not about punishing one spouse and rewarding the other - it's about ensuring fairness, and sustainability - especially when there are kids involved.

 

Nor do I think you should be bugging your OW right now. Why should she be interested that you chose your BW (and your lifestyle), but your BW dumped you regardless? Your OW is not some consolation prize, nor is it her job to hold your hand now that no one else is willing to do that, while you go through the D. Perhaps one day, when the dust has settled, and if you've gone through IC and done the work you need to do, you can convince her that you're not some pathetic discard looking for anyone that will have him, but actually a man with prospects who has become a partner worth having. But until you are in that position, you're offering her nothing.

 

Lemonade? The pressure is off. You don't have to make those decisions you were so loathe to make. They've been made for you. Now you can carry on as a passenger in your life, allowing others to make the decisions on your behalf.

 

Unless you've actually learned from this, and decide you do want to be in charge of your own life, in which case the lemonade is that you're faced with the opportunity to get down and do the hard work that will make you a partner that some future woman might actually want to be with, and a father your kids can look up to. It's your choice. Take the easy way out again, and let others make the decisions for you - or take control of your life and make something of it.

[Got it]

Having been a child of a divorced couple, it inevitability leads to the parent not living with you having less and less to do with you. They turn into friends if that. If the parent that you live with decides to make it impossible for the part time parent to be with the kids....This only works if the Mother allows it and also works for it. Don't see it here after he had an affair while she is pregnant. Do you?

 

You lose the choice of how to be a father. You lose access. If she remarries, looks like she is young enough to have kids with the new Husband, this will make it even more difficult to stay a "good part time father" The odds are really against him having a meaningful part of his kids life.

 

He should know what he is giving up, because he may not see it now, but sure as H@ll see it later.

543555559

 

Sorry but I am call bunk on this. Can a parent make it harder on the other parent? Absolutely but one can do something about parental alienation. My husband dealt with this with his ex, got the legal system involved and it got better. He is very involved with the kids.

 

Same with another father I know. It may take fighting and really needing to push for things but it isn't this doom and gloom situation unless that parent doesn't put in the energy to combat it.

[sandylee1]

TBH , it's generally harder on men in the divorce and custody battles. It truly depends on the woman and how they split up. If the wife stays at home, she'll get more custody usually. In this case an infant is involved, so overnighters are likely to be off the cards for as long as she is nursing if applicable.

 

Being more than fair when you've done wrong is honorable. Otherwise, the attornies are the only winners. You've put her through enough already and you'll save yourself a load of hassle and attorney fees.

 

I know that not exposing the affair has been used as the upper hand I'm these cases. I'm not debating if it's right or wrong, but I know a BH who gave more to stop his children, his employers (as he worked with the OW) and their friends. He was concerned about his reputation, so he let it go.

 

I think you should forget the OW altogether and in time build a relationship with someone else on a clean slate. No lies, no deceit and no sneaking around. Where she is your only love interest and she can get to know you properly, not with stolen moments. Honesty and trust count for a lot.

 

Like everything else time heals.

[awkward]

Lemonade - You will soon be single. You can pursue any relationship of your choosing. Find a therapist that you fit with it. Hire a different lawyer. Be a good, responsible father to both your children.

 

Realize you can't stick a knife inside someone's back and expect them to think you are a good guy who is just misunderstood.

 

I know you think it is bad now. How are you going to feel when your "hot wife" marries someone else? When your children's step-father will be lying in your old bed every night. You might want to start working on yourself real quick because it is going to get worse. Losing half your assets won't feel half as bad when you realize everything that you gave up.

 

You have a chance to start over and be the man your children need you to be. I hope you take it.

[Popsicle]

I felt like she was looking at me with disgust as I told her my story. From reading the replies on here I can see that most people feel that way.

While I was in the affair everything seemed wonderful, but now I really can't imagine it (life) being any worse

 

Do you live on another planet or something?

 

You have this air about you since your first post, that you don't really feel that you've done anything all that wrong and that all these people (wife, OW, your audience, lawyer etc.) are reacting in a way that surprises you.

 

Where have you been all your life? I just wonder where you live at in your head. What world is this?

[Lurkeraspect]

So I retained an attorney today. She wanted a $5000 retainer and snidely remarked "but this is going to cost you much more than my retainer." I felt like she was looking at me with disgust as I told her my story. From reading the replies on here I can see that most people feel that way.

While I was in the affair everything seemed wonderful, but now I really can't imagine it (life) being any worse. OW won't respond to my texts, so I don't see a reunion in the future.

How do I make lemonade out if these lemons?

 

I might suggest leaving the OW alone. It's been 3 months, she's made it abundantly clear she wants nothing to do with you. Keep up the constant interference and your legal issues may grow.

 

I find this whole thread very sad. The only person you're concerned with is you and your (self inflicted) issues, and the OW who wants nothing to do with you.

 

I feel so bad for your wife and kids. God knows they certainly deserve better. And if I prayed, my prayers would be for them, and them alone.

[BlueIris]

So I retained an attorney today. She wanted a $5000 retainer and snidely remarked "but this is going to cost you much more than my retainer." I felt like she was looking at me with disgust as I told her my story. From reading the replies on here I can see that most people feel that way.

While I was in the affair everything seemed wonderful, but now I really can't imagine it (life) being any worse. OW won't respond to my texts, so I don't see a reunion in the future.

How do I make lemonade out if these lemons?

 

Lawyer warfare has begun.

More than half of my money was withdrawn from our joint savings account and I got a text saying she has retained the best team of lawyers in town!

Looks like this is going from bad to worse.

 

Divorce outcomes are pretty clear at the beginning and the majority of people who spend a lot on lawyers do so because of emotional thrashing from one or both of the parties and the jockeying and concealment in the discovery process. Divorce is a spreadsheet process, with minor tweaks, unless you have difficult to value assets, self-employment/income issues, or very serious parenting issues.

 

Put together a settlement offer now and short-circuit this. Create a spreadsheet of each asset and liability and value, designating sole and separate and community/marital. Lay out the estimated costs and fees that you and she would incur. To give her incentive to settle, put an estimated total amount that the two of you would be paying in costs and attorneys fees to go to trial in her column. Calculate child support and spousal support by your state’s online calculators.

 

Don’t just throw up your hands and decide that war is inevitable. It isn’t. It takes two to go to war. You might have to tolerate a skirmish or two because she is understandably angry at you, just as you would probably be angry if an S.O. cheated on you. (Imagine OW had been cheating on you and lying to you all along. That’s how your wife feels, right?) Don’t expect your offer or any settlement to be a panacea and that she’ll just accept and peace will reign.

 

But there is power in saying that you’d prefer that $X go to her than to lawyers and that she has time to think it over.

[goodyblue]

That too lies in the hand of the parent where the children live at (not entirely of course, but let's be honest here, the parent where the children live has the most power over them). The thought of a new man taking the role as more engaged parent alone is quite a pill to swallow for many men; but considering how the OP says his ex has good looks he'll probably have to get used to

 

This offends me.