For those WS, did your affair change your feelings for your spouse?

[jbrent890]

I'm familiar with the statistics, which say that 25-75% of marriages experience infidelity. Even if you're only looking at 25%, when it comes to breaking marital vows, I'd hardly call 25% "rare," and definitely would call it "common."

 

It's more common than herpes. And herpes is pretty damn common.

 

Here are more accurate stats. In a given year, a marriage has a 5% chance of experiencing infedility. That's pretty low if you ask me.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-and-gratitude/201109/low-infidelity-shock-statistics-and-the-forgiveness-factor

 

How Common is Cheating & Infidelity Really? | World of Psychology

[seibert253]

Did your A affect how you see or feel about your BS? Did it make you love/appreciate him/her more? Magnify the issues you had with your H/W? Did those feelings change after the affair was over?

 

I'd love to believe that somehow my A with MM made him come to his senses and appreciate/love his W more. I guess that's my way of trying to ease my own guilt.

 

No, I feel nothing toward my XW. I worshiped the ground she walked on, didn't matter to her.

In all honesty, she could drop dead and I would feel sad my son lost his mom, but that is it.

[Southern Sun]

This 3% statistic is familiar to me, but in my recollection, it applies to affairs that they go on to become "successful" long-term relationships that post-affair. I think. Ish.

 

I am a former WW. I considered myself to be in a happy marriage when I stumbled into my affair. I recall even telling xMM that in the beginning - but I am not unhappy (as he was unleashing how miserable he was in his marriage). But as time went on, and I continued in the affair, I began to pick apart my H. This is almost a necessity in order to not experience cognitive dissonance. You have to convince yourself on some level that what you're doing is okay.

[Mazerati]

No. I loved him then and I love him now. But during the PA of my affair I realized fully just how much I couldn't live in a sexless marriage. I'll never let it go there again.

 

For those discounting the experiences of others... That is wrong and pointless. Just because a few marriages do come out stronger and better doesn't mean yours will/ has to/ can. You can't speak for every single person cheated on and reconciled. It is arrogent to do so. Not every BS is the same. Not every WS is the same and not every story is the same.

 

I have read stories of BS saying their marriage is better. Not because... But despite. Though the odd one may say because... Why this should threaten anyone is beyond me.

 

Noirek, how are you and your H doing?

 

Maz

[Artie Lang]

Stats are scientific. they almost never take into account the "human" factor- the pain, hurt, and utter devastation one feels after such a betrayal.

 

 

in some cases, i suppose you might get a positive result... i guess. but i'm hard pressed to believe that when asked; many, if not most, would tell you there was a better way for gaining/receiving appreciation from another.

[RoseVille]

Here are more accurate stats. In a given year, a marriage has a 5% chance of experiencing infedility. That's pretty low if you ask me.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-and-gratitude/201109/low-infidelity-shock-statistics-and-the-forgiveness-factor

 

How Common is Cheating & Infidelity Really? | World of Psychology

 

LOL. In a given year, only a 5% chance, but a 25-75% chance over the life of the M... and you still don't think infidelity is common? C'mon. Go bark up another tree, and keep this on-topic.

[gettingstronger]

I think his affair made him appreciate and understand what we have as a family and what he has accomplished in his own life- it has helped him refocus on what is important and healthy ways to draw power- as he said, its like a near death experience- when I found out about his affair and confronted him, he literally fell to his knees- he said he saw his life flash in front of him- its odd- he had no idea he would react that way- he said he never allowed himself to think about how he would react- such a strange mindset affairs must be-

[RoseVille]

This 3% statistic is familiar to me, but in my recollection, it applies to affairs that they go on to become "successful" long-term relationships that post-affair. I think. Ish.

 

You're correct. The 3% applies to affairs that go on to become another LTR, specifically, another marriage. The 3% doesn't apply to exit affairs.

 

I am a former WW. I considered myself to be in a happy marriage when I stumbled into my affair. I recall even telling xMM that in the beginning - but I am not unhappy (as he was unleashing how miserable he was in his marriage). But as time went on, and I continued in the affair, I began to pick apart my H. This is almost a necessity in order to not experience cognitive dissonance. You have to convince yourself on some level that what you're doing is okay.

 

That makes sense. During the A, did you have a hard time wanting to be around your H? Maintaining what connection was left?

[RoseVille]

I think his affair made him appreciate and understand what we have as a family and what he has accomplished in his own life- it has helped him refocus on what is important and healthy ways to draw power- as he said, its like a near death experience- when I found out about his affair and confronted him, he literally fell to his knees- he said he saw his life flash in front of him- its odd- he had no idea he would react that way- he said he never allowed himself to think about how he would react- such a strange mindset affairs must be-

 

I appreciate your input, but since the WS can be deceptive in the aftermath of an A to save their own hide (not saying yours was or wasn't, just that this sort of hearsay is unreliable), I'd like to hear directly from them, rather than how their BS interpreted their behaviors/comments, if you don't mind.

[Hope Shimmers]

I appreciate your input, but since the WS can be deceptive in the aftermath of an A to save their own hide (not saying yours was or wasn't, just that this sort of hearsay is unreliable), I'd like to hear directly from them, rather than how their BS interpreted their behaviors/comments, if you don't mind.

 

Wow.

 

Any registered member can post to any thread on this forum. Gettingstronger is a long-term trusted member here; anything she says you can take to the bank and learn from. My opinion.

[gettingstronger]

Roseville- quantifying when you don't like a response or being combative when you don't like a response will make it difficult for you to learn and grow- I get that you are new to this and you are hurting, but directing your own narrative is usually pretty unproductive-

 

What I wrote is directly from him- in therapy and in discussions-read my other posts- my husband throws up in therapy sometimes when faced with what he has done- so I have to say, its real-( if you don't mind)

[RoseVille]

Wow.

 

Any registered member can post to any thread on this forum. Gettingstronger is a long-term trusted member here; anything she says you can take to the bank and learn from. My opinion.

 

Of course you can, anyone can post where ever they'd like. However, I asked a question of WS, and would like responses from WS, not BS, not OW. WS. Hence why I repeated my request to hear from WS.

 

GS may be trusted, but I don't trust GS's spouse, ya know? I'd like to hear from WS.

[RoseVille]

Roseville- quantifying when you don't like a response or being combative when you don't like a response will make it difficult for you to learn and grow- I get that you are new to this and you are hurting, but directing your own narrative is usually pretty unproductive-

 

What I wrote is directly from him- in therapy and in discussions-read my other posts- my husband throws up in therapy sometimes when faced with what he has done- so I have to say, its real-( if you don't mind)

 

There's nothing combative whatsoever about my request, I promise. I just don't trust hearsay, it's that simple. Especially when it's translated in some fashion by a BS. I just want to hear straight from the horses mouth, that's all.

 

I'd like responses to my questions, is all. Not off-topic statistics, not from people I didn't ask the question of. I'm not trying to offend.

[Hope Shimmers]

Of course you can, anyone can post where ever they'd like. However, I asked a question of WS, and would like responses from WS, not BS, not OW. WS. Hence why I repeated my request to hear from WS.

 

GS may be trusted, but I don't trust GS's spouse, ya know? I'd like to hear from WS.

 

If you don't like responses you receive, ignore them. Don't offend them by saying they are not worth your time.

[jbrent890]

LOL. In a given year, only a 5% chance, but a 25-75% chance over the life of the M... and you still don't think infidelity is common? C'mon. Go bark up another tree, and keep this on-topic.

 

Before I go bark up another tree, where in either study does it say 75% chance over the course of the marriage? How about next time you want to be snarky you actually read what I post. These studies might help you from spouting incorrect information in the future. Now I will proceed to bark up a tree.

Edited May 6, 2015 by jbrent890

[RoseVille]

No, can we please focus on the OP instead of statistics about infidelity, that have nothing to do with what I'm asking about? Please? Pretty please?

[gettingstronger]

Gently, you're hurting and swimming for answers to the question so many OWs have on here that have recently split from the MM. Looking for answers of what you're mm is thinking, of hes working on his marriage, is he coming back. The posts are all worded differently but the sadness and desperation comes through in all of them. You won't find the answers to your specific situation here. No one knows. What we all can tell you is that taking care of and working on you is the best thing you can do for yourself. Getting all riled up over nothing doesn't help you.

 

Take some time and read other posts objectively and since they don't pertain directly to you, you may find them easier to take.

 

Peace

[Southern Sun]

During the A, did you have a hard time wanting to be around your H? Maintaining what connection was left?

 

I found it nearly impossible. I am no good at comparmentalizing. I put more and more distance between us, especially as the A was unraveling. It's odd, but in the beginning, in the "happy" phase, I was able to hide it better. It went downhill quickly, but it turned into a very manipulative back and forth, hot and cold relationship for many months (on xMM's part). I was just sort of blown by the wind. Not proud of it, just stating what happened. During this time, I became more depressed, more anxious, and more guilt-ridden...making it harder and harder to hide. Thus all I wanted to do was push my H away.

 

Now that I am out of it and away from xMM, I feel like I dodged a bullet. It seems that the A clouded my judgment about my H, made me feel things that weren't real. I mean, you should never judge your spouse against anyone else. That's what marriage means...there is not a second person standing there to compare them to. Or there's not supposed to be.

[jbrent890]

Really I think it depends on how he felt about the affair. If it was strictly sex for him, then he will be able to block it off easier than if it was heavily emotional. For a lot of these men, affairs are just ego strokes. If he does have a heart, then the guilt will kill him and he will have a hard time facing her everyday. I really don't believe most people become better spouses after having affairs, especially when they keep it to themselves. If he really wants his marriage to work, he will be honest with his spouse about the affair and they work on healing the marriage from their. If not, then he is like every other male that wanted some strange on the side while still having the benefits of being married. If that's the case, I really do feel sorry for his wife and I think you should celebrate the fact that he is gone.

[violet1]

Did your A affect how you see or feel about your BS? Did it make you love/appreciate him/her more? Magnify the issues you had with your H/W? Did those feelings change after the affair was over?

 

I'd love to believe that somehow my A with MM made him come to his senses and appreciate/love his W more. I guess that's my way of trying to ease my own guilt.

I had an A because I was extremely unhappy in my M for years. I am not rewriting history either. My H and I have been through a lot of rough patches together, but things never seemed to get better for long. He acknowledges the problems as well. I had begged my H for marriage counseling and he refused time and time again. My H thought everything would work itself out. I became resentful and no longer cared. I sought out my A because I wanted an escape from it all until I got myself together to divorce my H.

 

 

My D Day changed everything for me. It made me face my problems head on. I realized how much my H loves me and how much I really love him. I had a hard time at first and did break NC. My H knows everything and we proceeded with MC. We both continue to work hard on our marriage. We are a year and four months out and our marriage is better than ever. He says the same too btw. Don't get me wrong though, I wish I had dealt with things differently. I'm thankful we're doing well, but an affair always makes things worse before it gets better.

 

 

On a side note: I'm not trying to get off topic or debate, but IMO cheating is more common than not. Almost everyone I know has been affected by cheating in one way or another. Whether they were cheated on or know somebody who cheated, etc. You just never know what's going to happen in life. For me, the risk of love and happiness is worth it.

 

 

Cheers!

[cocorico]

Sorry to hear that... but then he was, and you, too, are amongst that rare, 3 out of 100, exit affair.

 

The other 97% of us cannot relate.

 

Glad you hooked him. Be happy.

 

Everything I've read about "exit affairs" suggests that this was not an "exit affair". The closest to what I've seen in the literature is the "split self" affair.

 

But thanks

[fellini]

Everything I've read about "exit affairs" suggests that this was not an "exit affair". The closest to what I've seen in the literature is the "split self" affair.

 

But thanks

 

There definitely exists confusion even among the so-called experts. (I disgree with an earlier post about Glass because I read her and I do not recall any statistics in terms of which affairs are 3% and what the others are. It doesn't mean anything to speak of statistics regardless. We have a case, this case is what it is.

 

When you say "Split-self" I assume you refer to Brown's work. It's an interesting read. She also dedicates a chapter about "Exit affairs" but she differs from everyone else in arguing that in exit affairs - deep down BOTH partners want out, but they suffer from conflict avoidance and neither will do it. She sees, in fact recommends, that therapists don't try to save marriages experiencing exit affairs because she believes the marriage is already dead, for both. Im not sure I buy that.

 

Some of the best material on split-self that isn't Brown can be found in Michelle Langley "Women' Infidelity" parts I and II are incredible reads. The difference is Langley is a researcher, and Brown a therapist. Brown is great at the theory but Langley describes the cases as they are lived in actual marriages better. She has some issues with Feminism and Sexism that tend to interfere in her more poignant points.

 

Mira Kirschenbaum does talk about Exit affairs and doesn't mention that the other partner wants out. However, perhaps the point is the marriage has to have sunk very low for someone to want to "exit" and again, she confers with Brown on this - the WS uses the affair to help get out the door.

 

What all agree on, regardless, is that people lie more about infidelity than they do about sex, and that makes discussions about percentages moot, imho.

[cocorico]

There definitely exists confusion even among the so-called experts. (I disgree with an earlier post about Glass because I read her and I do not recall any statistics in terms of which affairs are 3% and what the others are. It doesn't mean anything to speak of statistics regardless. We have a case, this case is what it is.

 

When you say "Split-self" I assume you refer to Brown's work. It's an interesting read. She also dedicates a chapter about "Exit affairs" but she differs from everyone else in arguing that in exit affairs - deep down BOTH partners want out, but they suffer from conflict avoidance and neither will do it. She sees, in fact recommends, that therapists don't try to save marriages experiencing exit affairs because she believes the marriage is already dead, for both. Im not sure I buy that.

 

Some of the best material on split-self that isn't Brown can be found in Michelle Langley "Women' Infidelity" parts I and II are incredible reads. The difference is Langley is a researcher, and Brown a therapist. Brown is great at the theory but Langley describes the cases as they are lived in actual marriages better. She has some issues with Feminism and Sexism that tend to interfere in her more poignant points.

 

Mira Kirschenbaum does talk about Exit affairs and doesn't mention that the other partner wants out. However, perhaps the point is the marriage has to have sunk very low for someone to want to "exit" and again, she confers with Brown on this - the WS uses the affair to help get out the door.

 

What all agree on, regardless, is that people lie more about infidelity than they do about sex, and that makes discussions about percentages moot, imho.

 

Wasn't Langley's concept "limbo" rather than "split self"?

 

I do agree on the percentages being moot. Not only because "people lie", but because I have never seen a proper scientific (ie meets all the criteria in terms of reliability, validity, generalisability, etc, has been properly peer reviewed and published in a reputable journal) study whose research question was explicitly: what percentage of affairs go on to become full-time relationships conducted openly between the former affair partners? (Or similar). To me, the research design would be obvious:

 

* the sampling frame would need to consider all manner of variables, to ensure representativity, so would need to be international, cross-cultural along several axes (language, ethnicity, race, geography, etc), all genders adequately represented across all variables, all sexualities likewise, all disability status, all social and economic classes, all political persuasions, all ages, etc. this would require a *massive* sample size.

 

* the design would need to be longitudinal rather than cross-sectional, as you would want to see what percentage of As became FTRs. You would thus need to design a study that could run for long enough to allow the As to end, becoming FTRs or not. A cross-sectional survey, asking respondents 1) if they had and A and 2) if it ended in a FTR with the fAP would not give you the same level of accuracy, as Q1 would be underreported, and possibly Q2 too. Likewise, polling people to ask if their current partner was their fAP would be asking a different research question, and not be accurate either.

 

* recruiting for the sample would be very difficult in many contexts, given the social disapproval of As. Calling for volunteers would bias the sample, but using random methods would be unlikely to deliver a reliably representative sample, too.

 

* funding such a study in today's climate is unlikely. Getting ethical clearance would also provide its own challenges.

 

* interpreting the results would also be difficult. What is considered a "FTR" is likely to differ across contexts, as well as what qualified as "conducted openly". There would also be questions relating to how long said FTR had to last in order to qualify, and whether the transition had to involve a D, a separation, etc as the marker.

 

So I don't imagine we'll ever have reliable stats. We may have anecdote, from the practice records of counsellors and therapists, and informal surveys which are representative of no one beyond the respondents themselves, and journalistic pieces looking at altogether different matters and commenting on infidelity in passing, like that "Lives of Quiet Desperation" study by Halper that may have been the original source of the apocryphal 3%... But they will be of little to no use in predicting how any individual's encounter with infidelity is likely to end up.

[fellini]

Wasn't Langley's concept "limbo" rather than "split self"?

 

 

Yes, limbo is her biggest contribution, but what having read both, what enables limbo, although not all, is essentially a split self. It's interesting that clearly neither author has crossed paths, nor read each other, but the description from Brown of women's split self ( she remarkably distinguishes between men and women's motivations) and Langley's notion of the failure of the happily ever after marriage are almost identical.

 

Their ideas of coming out of limbo and breaking the split self are equally more similar than different. And of course they are both speaking about the same "type" of people - those who have been married quite some time and suddenly find themselves in two relationships, and who "use" the affair partner to unkindly and unfavourably weigh against the primary relationship to justify maintaining the second.

[Southern Sun]

I'm not sure if I answered the original question, or the intent of it - did the affair help my marriage? How did it affect it?

 

I think I now have the opportunity to make my marriage better. It is wrong to give my affair any "credit" for this. But my H and I are going to take something awful that happened and are working to learn and grow from it, to make our relationship stronger, to make ourselves less vulnerable, to understand more about human nature, and to truly appreciate what we really have in each other. But I would have MUCH preferred to have all of these things without going through this awful misery, and I'm pretty sure H would say the same.

 

I do NOT believe this can happen without a D-Day and both spouses agreeing to enter into reconciliation, however. I suppose some might have a little on the side and then run back to the marriage with a moment of clarity, but usually it just reinforces a pattern of behavior and the thought process that they "got away with it." To make the marriage better, as others have said, it pretty much has to crash and burn first.

 

My mantra from now on...can we just not do this to begin with?