Women don't want a good man now days.

[kissmybooty]

I didn't read the whole thread, but where the good guys at ? I don't seem to meet one. You'll see girls complain about this and here you are complaining that they want the bad boys. Someone explain this to me?

[fitnessfan365]

I know what I need and it is to put myself first and make myself happy and help me first and let everyone else drown. No more free advice or not going out of my way to help people I do not know it just gets you know where in life.

 

Helping people and giving advice isn't supposed to be based on wanting something in return or trying to get somewhere. It defeats the whole purpose. You do it because it makes you feel good.

 

Since I am a successful personal trainer, one thing I love to do is give free advice and help to people online that are struggling to get in shape. I'll counsel them, give them routines and instruction, etc.. Never once have I ever expected them to pay me or become a client. It's just my way of paying it forward because life has been good to me.

[SJC2008]

Last thing is I do not like being vulnerable I rather push people away sometimes . I know I need to becoming vulnerable relationships but it is not easy.

 

You sound like you have self awareness, that's a good thing.

 

Stop caring about what women want, this mindset reinforces anself limiting belief that you are lacking something they want/aren't good enough for them. Find out what you want in a woman if you're not sure and look for it. You'll be surprised what the subtleties in small talk/conversation can reveal about a person.

 

Depending on what you're looking for in a woman as far as dating/relationships are concerned, pay close attention to what they're looking for. If they say things like 'I want a man with options who other women want' that could be a red flag depending on the context. I should sat it's a red flag fore me, your interpretaion is what you make of it. IMO when a woman says this she's either immature ie caught up in the "Sex and the City" fantasy/lifestyle or needs the exterior validation to prop her up. I look for things like 'I want to meet someone who I can relate to and be happy with' etc. I need more depth than "look what i got girls".

[Krieger]

Well if you're in the mindset that calling a woman a "jack ass" to her face is an example of not being a push over, that's not being a "good man". The way that men and women communicate that are attracted to each other is through teasing and being playful. Sometimes a woman may be full of $hit. However, you don't be rude about it. You tease her in a playful way to make her realize how silly she's being. The fact that you're willing to do this is what shows you're not some overly nice push over and that you treat her like a person.

 

I was talking more less if a woman is being out of control over the top . Well I not sure I am the teasing playful type I have more of a deadpan sense of humor or I use Sarcasm.

 

for example I was talking to this girl and we were talking about Favorite author , still read Shakespeare today. ... If it wasn';t for William Shakespeare, I would have totally overreacted when my fiance killed herself!

 

The thing was I said it conveying no emotion and she was not sure if I was joking but I said if you need to read more books if did not get it. I do not think she found it funny buy I can careless I though it was funny.

[Krieger]

Helping people and giving advice isn't supposed to be based on wanting something in return or trying to get somewhere. It defeats the whole purpose. You do it because it makes you feel good.

 

Since I am a successful personal trainer, one thing I love to do is give free advice and help to people online that are struggling to get in shape. I'll counsel them, give them routines and instruction, etc.. Never once have I ever expected them to pay me or become a client. It's just my way of paying it forward because life has been good to me.

 

I just need to put me need first more than worry or help other people.

[fitnessfan365]

I was talking more less if a woman is being out of control over the top . Well I not sure I am the teasing playful type I have more of a deadpan sense of humor or I use Sarcasm.

 

for example I was talking to this girl and we were talking about Favorite author , still read Shakespeare today. ... If it wasn';t for William Shakespeare, I would have totally overreacted when my fiance killed herself!

 

The thing was I said it conveying no emotion and she was not sure if I was joking but I said if you need to read more books if did not get it. I do not think she found it funny buy I can careless I though it was funny.

 

Haha.. Dude. I cannot believe you actually said that to a woman. I mean there is such a thing called tact. Yes I get it. Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet. But still, making a dead fiance suicide joke? That's just poor taste.

 

I mean if this is how you're interacting with women, I can see why you're not being successful. Just saying..

[Krieger]

You sound like you have self awareness, that's a good thing.

 

Stop caring about what women want, this mindset reinforces anself limiting belief that you are lacking something they want/aren't good enough for them. Find out what you want in a woman if you're not sure and look for it. You'll be surprised what the subtleties in small talk/conversation can reveal about a person.

 

Depending on what you're looking for in a woman as far as dating/relationships are concerned, pay close attention to what they're looking for. If they say things like 'I want a man with options who other women want' that could be a red flag depending on the context. I should sat it's a red flag fore me, your interpretaion is what you make of it. IMO when a woman says this she's either immature ie caught up in the "Sex and the City" fantasy/lifestyle or needs the exterior validation to prop her up. I look for things like 'I want to meet someone who I can relate to and be happy with' etc. I need more depth than "look what i got girls".

 

Well I like family oriented woman seeing i never had a good family life never did anything as a family when i was young.

 

No single moms not intrested in taking care of your three kids by 3 different men sorry no thanks.

 

If her mom and dad are together it is a plus or she has to have a good relationship with her dad .

 

She can not be obese woman or overweight

 

Once I have a career she better be working on one or own a business or I am not interested.

 

Lest me be a man but calls me on my BS

 

Wants to be equal and none of this trying to out do one an other in the work place or making money.

 

She was to be supportive because I will be .

[Krieger]

Haha.. Dude. I cannot believe you actually said that to a woman. I mean there is such a thing called tact. Yes I get it. Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet. But still, making a dead fiance suicide joke? That's just poor taste.

 

I mean if this is how you're interacting with women, I can see why you're not being successful. Just saying..

 

 

Well to be fair I do not always say stuff like that but I was not interested in her anyway.

 

Also truth be told I have no idea how to flirt with woman other tahn get to know them some and ask them out other than that I am lost.

 

All the woman I ever dated or had sex with came up to me and made it known what they wanted .

 

If i had to flirt with a woman I would be lost some guy are very good at breaking the touch barrier me I never seem to have got in the memo unless she gives me a vibe or flirts with me and I can tell then yea I pick up on it.

[mortensorchid]

Is it me or men that are worth a darn not bad enough? Well ladys I done things that will make your so called bad boy boyfriend look like a girl scout. Has you Bf been to juvenile correctional facility more than once? Also I done some drug trafficking with the intent to disrupt that if i was ever caught I would be seeing 5 to 20 years in jail so beat that. Oh not to brag but I am not talking about kids stuff I am talking about bottles full of schedule 2 prescription drugs.

 

Now I do not do that anymore and do not talk to these people or want anything to do with them. I just grow up and done with that now.

 

I said all that to prove a point that yes i can be a bad boy too try me.

 

Well you know I am working and going to college now and getting my life in order sort of speak I am not going to tell you what I field I am going into. I just do not want people to think i am a bad person.

 

That being said it seems to me that women don’t seek out comfort or stability in men anymore—they seek entertainment. They seek distraction. Once the entertainment or novelty you provide her declines—and it inevitably will she moves on to something or someone else. In essence, the only way you can keep a girl is if you adopt the mentality of a soap opera writer, adding a cliffhanger to the end of each episode that keeps a woman interested when being a good man no longer does.

 

Woman to me are more into losers with no goals or dreams in life.I am not wired to sit around all day and play ps4 . I know too many woman that put up with a guy sitting at home not wanting to work or help around the house. It seems OK for a guy not to be able to hold down a job or even try to look for one.

 

The only thing i can think of is woman want to be entertained so badly that him working will cut into that.

 

My question is why is it so hard to find a woman that wants to start a family and have kids . Yes I am all for woman working and having equal rights. My issue is some woman see men as the enemy and some woman see this as a game to one up there BF. I sorry woman it not a game if we are building a future together we are a team . I will be good at things and you will be good at things and we support one another but it seem woman are not interested in that.

 

BTW I feel I am a good man I not perfect but who is ? I Don’t care much what others think of me , great public speaker you know wakes things happen , Call people on their bull**** and have a sensitive side even thought I try to hide it some times. LOL

 

Guy, I believe every word you say. I struggle with these same issues and I'm a woman in my 40s. What I can tell you, however, is this about women and bad boys : Women as children tend to be disciplined more than men are. If a woman misbehaves (as a kid) the hammer of Thor comes down on her; if a man misbehaves there is this mentality of "boys will be boys" with some if not all. Double standards in action. Women go for bad boys because it is, like you said, appealing to the sense of entertainment and because we are acting out our own wants and needs to be bad through them. I have been with my share of them over the years, fun is fun, but I'm a grown up now. The guy is probably more fun than a barrel of monkeys and he's a tornado in the sack, but it's going to get real old, real fast when he's throwing chairs through windows, getting into fist fights, and calling for bail money.

 

 

HOWEVER, I would like to counter this by saying that men are not innocent either with their Nice Guys Finish Last mentality. I have been with just as many who claim that they are good guys who want a woman who is exciting, edgy, hot, etc. And what do they do? They lookover me for trashy girls - strippers, high school drop outs, gold diggers, etc. who use and take advantage and make their lives miserable. They don't want a woman, they want Nana. I think they want women to treat them just as badly as men are known for treating women badly. My last bf threw me over after six months for a woman who alienated him from all his friends and family, throws epic tantrums, and ruined his sister's wedding. He has been with her, I would like to point out, for about two and a half years now; and, he broke it off with me because I wasn't taking care of him and his hillbilly ass. My second to last bf married another woman barely one year after breaking if off with me (and in the last few weeks emotionally, verbally and physically abusive towards me) after knowing her for 6 weeks. She cleaned him out financially, then ran off with husband #4 after 2 years of wedded hell and has since divorced husband #4.

 

 

All I can say is on these and your observations is this about the past : You were not right for one another. Let the men have trash girls, they are trash as well. Let the women have bad boys, they are inner bad girls themselves who have not grown up yet. Everytime a man dumps me, I say "You don't deserve me". Those women you speak of do not deserve you either if you are truly who you say you are. Does it sound arrogant? It can yes, but it's also about assurance and keeping hope alive for the future. And sometimes that's all we have.

[fitnessfan365]

Well to be fair I do not always say stuff like that but I was not interested in her anyway.

 

Also truth be told I have no idea how to flirt with woman other tahn get to know them some and ask them out other than that I am lost.

 

All the woman I ever dated or had sex with came up to me and made it known what they wanted .

 

If i had to flirt with a woman I would be lost some guy are very good at breaking the touch barrier me I never seem to have got in the memo unless she gives me a vibe or flirts with me and I can tell then yea I pick up on it.

 

My problem is the exact opposite. I'm playful, flirtatious, and enjoy suggestive banter. I love a lot of mental stimulation that arouses my imagination. For me, this is just as hot as sex itself. However, even though I am monogamous and relationship oriented, women automatically write me off as a guy that just wants sex. Especially women I meet online. Since they get sexual emails and pervs writing all the time, their guards are especially high.

 

It's frustrating to me because a lot of women seem to love confident, sexually assertive men. But then it's like they want them to act asexual and neutered when sex isn't happening. Don't get me wrong. I love well rounded conversation. Also, I save the dirty talk for the bedroom. But during a conversation if a woman gives me an opening, dropping innuendos, flirting, and making suggestive comments is part of my personality. I don't know how to be any other way. I just need to meet a woman that's fully comfortable with her sexuality and loves the flirtatious banter as much as me. This has been harder to find in nice women that are relationship centric. It usually comes in bad girls that aren't GF material.

Edited April 20, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[SJC2008]

Guy, I believe every word you say. I struggle with these same issues and I'm a woman in my 40s. What I can tell you, however, is this about women and bad boys : Women as children tend to be disciplined more than men are. If a woman misbehaves (as a kid) the hammer of Thor comes down on her; if a man misbehaves there is this mentality of "boys will be boys" with some if not all. Double standards in action. Women go for bad boys because it is, like you said, appealing to the sense of entertainment and because we are acting out our own wants and needs to be bad through them. I have been with my share of them over the years, fun is fun, but I'm a grown up now. The guy is probably more fun than a barrel of monkeys and he's a tornado in the sack, but it's going to get real old, real fast when he's throwing chairs through windows, getting into fist fights, and calling for bail money.

 

 

HOWEVER, I would like to counter this by saying that men are not innocent either with their Nice Guys Finish Last mentality. I have been with just as many who claim that they are good guys who want a woman who is exciting, edgy, hot, etc. And what do they do? They lookover me for trashy girls - strippers, high school drop outs, gold diggers, etc. who use and take advantage and make their lives miserable. They don't want a woman, they want Nana. I think they want women to treat them just as badly as men are known for treating women badly. My last bf threw me over after six months for a woman who alienated him from all his friends and family, throws epic tantrums, and ruined his sister's wedding. He has been with her, I would like to point out, for about two and a half years now; and, he broke it off with me because I wasn't taking care of him and his hillbilly ass. My second to last bf married another woman barely one year after breaking if off with me (and in the last few weeks emotionally, verbally and physically abusive towards me) after knowing her for 6 weeks. She cleaned him out financially, then ran off with husband #4 after 2 years of wedded hell and has since divorced husband #4.

 

 

All I can say is on these and your observations is this about the past : You were not right for one another. Let the men have trash girls, they are trash as well. Let the women have bad boys, they are inner bad girls themselves who have not grown up yet. Everytime a man dumps me, I say "You don't deserve me". Those women you speak of do not deserve you either if you are truly who you say you are. Does it sound arrogant? It can yes, but it's also about assurance and keeping hope alive for the future. And sometimes that's all we have.

 

Once again in our society we tend to put things in a box. Can a nice guy not be a tornado in the sack? Can a nice guy not throw chairs? My father was as nice/meek as it got but when the switch flipped he was verbal and would throw dishes and hit my mother.

 

As shy and timid I can come accross, many people would be hard pressed to beleive that I have made a scene at at bank and did't care. That I have had arguments and even shouting matches with co-workers and bosses. I have mentioned this here many times.

 

That's why you have to get to take the time to get to know someone, 3-6 months on average. Many peopele are master disguisers and appear "normal" and "happy". Just because someone is a lying dog and xyz doesn't mean they come acceoss that way 24/7. They can be really cool/sociable/fumny. Seldom do people reveal their inmer deamons off the bat.

Edited April 20, 2015 by SJC2008

[Taramere]

Once again in our society we tend to put things in a box. Can a nice guy not be a tornado in the sack? Can a nice guy not throw chairs? My father was as nice/meek as it got but when the switch flipped he was verbal and would throw dishes and hit my mother.

 

As shy and timid I can come accross, many people would be hard pressed to beleive that I have made a scene at at bank and did't care. That I have had arguments and even shouting matches with co-workers and bosses. I have mentioned this here many times..

 

Well, I wouldn't find that hard to believe at all. A person being shy and timid one minute, then throwing crockery the next is a person who has never learned to manage their anger properly - but instead, bottles it all up and then releases it in a torrent.

 

It's called "splitting". It's what happens when a person can't deal with the notion of positives and negatives, kindness and anger etc co-existing in the same person. So they see everything in all or nothing terms. The moment the kind person gets angry and says something mean "they're taking off the mask and showing their real, horrible self." Or conversely, a generally quite negative person shows a tiny grain of humanity and they're overwhelmed/seduced by how "wonderful" this actually quite unpleasant person is deep down.

 

And the inability to accept both good and bad in others is something they apply to themselves too. "No more Mr Nice Guy!" They can't integrate the people pleasing and not so people pleasing aspects of themselves. People are either good girls or whores, bad boys or nice guys etc.

 

I know what I need and it is to put myself first and make myself happy and help me first and let everyone else drown. No more free advice or not going out of my way to help people I do not know it just gets you know where in life.

 

Also going to start looking at things like this what can the person do for me down the road ? Is he or she going to help me or be useful down the road? If not not going to left a finger unless they have money.

 

I agree that you should probably not be trying to help or advise other people. You've mentioned going into a caring profession, and to be honest while you might have the best of intentions I think that would be a terrible idea right now. When people are in as unhealthy a place as you appear to be, and when they go into a caring role, it tends to become alarmingly co-dependent...and can have a very detrimental impact on the person being cared for.

 

As for adopting a policy of deliberately being horrible to women in the hope that it will make you more attractive. I honestly think that whether you're being Nice or Nasty...women will see fairly quickly that it comes from a place of pretty extreme emotional instability. And that will be what they're steering clear of.

[Krieger]

I agree that you should probably not be trying to help or advise other people. You've mentioned going into a caring profession, and to be honest while you might have the best of intentions I think that would be a terrible idea right now. When people are in as unhealthy a place as you appear to be, and when they go into a caring role, it tends to become alarmingly co-dependent...and can have a very detrimental impact on the person being cared for.

 

As for adopting a policy of deliberately being horrible to women in the hope that it will make you more attractive. I honestly think that whether you're being Nice or Nasty...women will see fairly quickly that it comes from a place of pretty extreme emotional instability. And that will be what they're steering clear of.

 

Well being myself not working and being nice does not work and being a 100% a hole does not work .

 

I am kind of at a lost I know I need work on things but I am suck of being hurt by woman it sucks.

 

It makes it hard when most woman have no clue what they want and want you to figure it our for them.

[Krieger]

Like I said there not much to be happy about when you are slowly come to the realization you going to die alone and never meet a good woman and have the opportunity to have a family and kids and build a life together .

 

Sadly every passing day it seems more and more likely I die alone and be the crazy dog or cat guy on the block.

[Taramere]

Well being myself not working and being nice does not work and being a 100% a hole does not work .

 

I am kind of at a lost I know I need work on things

 

Do you have access to counselling for times when you're struggling?

 

It makes it hard when most woman have no clue what they want and want you to figure it our for them.

 

I think people - not just women, but people generally - will tend to give you most respect and appreciate you when they sense that you respect yourself and are reasonably comfortable with who you are. In some people's case, "who I am" might be fairly aggressive and outspoken. In another person's case they might be more gentle and nurturing. Ideally, I think, people have the ability to be both in reasonable amounts. Too aggressive leads a person into obvious problems (fights, violence etc). Too nurturing can result in a person being exploited a bit and not really knowing how to express the anger connected to feeling unappreciated.

 

I think the Myers Briggs testing tool is a very good way of finding out what your basic temperament is.

 

Free Personality Test | 16Personalities

 

So long, that is, as you don't feel imprisoned by your temperament. We're not just our basic temperaments. We're also our experiences, the things we've read, the music we listen to, the relationships we've had etc. Knowing your basic temperament and its strengths and weaknesses is, I think, a good starting point for knowing the core of who you are...then working with that rather than forever fighting it or feeling imprisoned by it.

 

Where you're going wrong, I think, is in taking "what women want, once I've worked out whatever the hell that might be" as the thing you should be focusing on in your personal development. That won't help you. Knowing yourself, being true to yourself, learning to build on your strengths and managing your weaknesses effectively - these things are the key to your personal development.

 

If you focus on trying to manage or control other people's - specifically women's - responses to you then you're only moving further and further away from understanding and mastering yourself and your emotions. Which is what, I think, you'd benefit from focusing on a bit more. I don't know if you're familiar with the poem "If" by Rudyard Kipling...but it tells, in far more eloquent terms, the message I'm trying to convey to you.

 

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_if.htm

Edited April 20, 2015 by Taramere

[Emilia]

Which is what, I think, you'd benefit from focusing on a bit more. I don't know if you're familiar with the poem "If" by Rudyard Kipling...but it tells, in far more eloquent terms, the message I'm trying to convey to you.

 

Poems - If--

I'd forgotten how great that poem was, thanks for the reminder!

[Toodaloo]

Like I said there not much to be happy about when you are slowly come to the realization you going to die alone and never meet a good woman and have the opportunity to have a family and kids and build a life together .

 

Sadly every passing day it seems more and more likely I die alone and be the crazy dog or cat guy on the block.

 

 

Two things

 

1. Your hanging with the wrong crowd. Thats why you are not meeting decent people to date and have a relationship with. If you only meet drama queens and users stands to reason you need to look else where...

 

2. You can only become and mad cat/ dog man if you also wear purple hats. An angora ear muff warmer is also permissible.

 

Stop dating weirdos and start dating women who are more worthy. Seriously. Cut people who cause all this crap out of your life so you can leave room for some decent people instead.

[elaine567]

As for adopting a policy of deliberately being horrible to women in the hope that it will make you more attractive. I honestly think that whether you're being Nice or Nasty...women will see fairly quickly that it comes from a place of pretty extreme emotional instability. And that will be what they're steering clear of.

 

^^^ This^^^

Krieger.

You have to calm down and stop being so reactive to everything around you and start getting comfortable in your own skin. Some people will really like you, some people will hate you, but most people will just accept you for who you are. YOU have to give them that chance, stop trying to be what others want.

Stop the manipulation, stop the self pity, stop the drama and curb the over-sensitive side of your personality, and start being what you want to be.

You have to work out what you truly want out of life and work to get there. If you want a good woman and kids, then you have to be father material, no woman is going to want a bitter, entitled, selfish, unstable "boy" as a father for her kids.

If you want to be a father then you have to start acting like a father. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

NO throw away bitter lines and attention seeking off the wall "jokes". Dignity and decorum.

Women who want the whole package want to see, honest, caring, kind and true, a good role model for their kids.

 

If the girls you meet do not want that, then they are not the girls for you, do not change into the lying, aggressive, selfish, nasty guy that SOME girls want, those girls do not want a proper relationship with kids, those girls only want a good time and only want some drama in their lives.

Please stop all this bitter, negative narrative, it is not going to get you anywhere. Any truly decent woman will run a mile and you will find it will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

[SJC2008]

Well, I wouldn't find that hard to believe at all. A person being shy and timid one minute, then throwing crockery the next is a person who has never learned to manage their anger properly - but instead, bottles it all up and then releases it in a torrent.

 

It's called "splitting". It's what happens when a person can't deal with the notion of positives and negatives, kindness and anger etc co-existing in the same person. So they see everything in all or nothing terms. The moment the kind person gets angry and says something mean "they're taking off the mask and showing their real, horrible self." Or conversely, a generally quite negative person shows a tiny grain of humanity and they're overwhelmed/seduced by how "wonderful" this actually quite unpleasant person is deep down.

 

And the inability to accept both good and bad in others is something they apply to themselves too. "No more Mr Nice Guy!" They can't integrate the people pleasing and not so people pleasing aspects of themselves. People are either good girls or whores, bad boys or nice guys etc

 

Lately I have been thinking about this and how I get so angry. I'm thinking that I shift other emotions to anger because I can deal with anger easier or am more comfortable with anger than ither emotions if that makes sense. Now I'm telling myself if someone offends me it's ok to "feel bad" etc instead of shifting it to anger or rage. Sure some anger may ensue but not ro the same extent sense simce I processing the other emotions. We'll see what happens. I got ISTJ in the test.

Edited April 20, 2015 by SJC2008

[Buddhist]

Who really wants to have kids with a drug trafficker? It's not a gene pool I would be interested in participating in.

[Buddhist]

Can a nice guy not throw chairs? My father was as nice/meek as it got but when the switch flipped he was verbal and would throw dishes and hit my mother.

 

As shy and timid I can come accross, many people would be hard pressed to beleive that I have made a scene at at bank and did't care. That I have had arguments and even shouting matches with co-workers and bosses. I have mentioned this here many times.

 

That's why you have to get to take the time to get to know someone, 3-6 months on average. Seldom do people reveal their inmer deamons off the bat.

 

Well if their inner demons include domestic violence, throwing chairs and making scenes I'd rather not know them thanks. None of that's the behaviour of an adult. It's an out of control child in a grown up body.

[xxoo]

 

The thing with being a genuine good person is it seen as boring by many.

 

Not at all. Genuinely good people can be boring. But they can also be interesting, engaging, successful, strong, charming and extremely attractive.

 

Everyone wants the latter. Everyone.

[regine_phalange]

You talk about women as if they're stupid.

 

No one is all good or bad, obviously these "losers" have good parts that are enough to attract and keep some women, and "good guys" have bad parts that are enough to keep some women away.

[guest569]

I like a good, decent, kind, gentle, respectful, well behaved man. Let's forget about lame gender stereotypes, masculinity and femininity, alpha and beta. A decent fricken human being is what most of us desire.

[Gaeta]

I didn't read the 5 pages so forgive me if I say something redundant.

 

You've changed your life and I congratulate you for that. Maybe you have not changed your taste in women though? If you go after the same type of women you used to back in the days, it's kind of counter productive and self explanatory.