Informal Survey: How many of you LS women are turned on by whining?

[toolforgrowth]

I totally agree with a person needing to reevaluate their "picker".

 

My xWW was a shrew, no doubt about it. And I dated two other women after that who were shrewish also.

 

At that point, I had two choices: condemn all women to eternal shrewdom, or look at what I'm doing on MY end that's causing me to pursue these women.

 

I chose the latter. I took a year and a half off from dating and relationships. And when I met my GF, I took it nice and slow.

 

We are so much in love now and so cute and sweet we will literally give you diabeetus.

 

We have talked about moving in, how bills and money will be handled, division of chores, all that stuff. And we are in complete agreement about how it's all going to work. We've tentatively scheduled for her and her kids to move in with me sometime this summer.

 

The problem was not with all women. The problem was with ME. Once I fixed me, I found my dream woman.

 

Coincidence? I think not.

[preraph]

Here's a link to an article "Guess Who's Not Coming to Dinner" by Mark Olshaker that discusses women dating men in prison some. Most of it is near the bottom. This is profiler John Douglas' site, but Olshaker, an author and journalist, does most of the writing. He says the women are low self-esteem and easily manipulated.

 

Mindhunters | Guess Who?s Not Coming to Dinner

[Priv]

I do understand why a man who constantly bashes women would not be attractive because I sure don't find man haters attractive.

 

Lol dude, I see what you did there

[autumnnight]

Lol dude, I see what you did there

 

I did too, which is why I agreed with him. An objective person could not possibly read everything I post here and conclude i am a man basher.....unless that was what he was determined to see

[autumnnight]

We are so much in love now and so cute and sweet we will literally give you diabeetus.

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/0d/21/cd0d2148fd714c8780a39fcac5c9e278.jpg

 

Just for you

[toolforgrowth]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/0d/21/cd0d2148fd714c8780a39fcac5c9e278.jpg

 

Just for you

 

Ha! Love it!

 

I hate it when people pronounce it "diabeetus". Drives me nuts. So I resort to smarta$$ery to cope with it.

 

It's worked very well so far.

[Taramere]

I am currently writing a best selling piece of erotic literature called 50 shades of misogyny.

 

I hope they make it into a movie with Adam Sandler as the star.

 

Mine is "50 shades of a grey cloud drip, drip, dripping on every aspect of my day."

 

Here's the opener.

 

It was my first day in court. Holy crap I was excited! So excited that I tumbled down the stairs. As I lay spreadeagled, I smelt something strange and, holy crap....it smelt a bit like....plain old unholy crap. I glanced ahead and saw a pair of cheap black loafers in front of me.

 

"I trod in dogsh*t this morning" stated the mournful sounding owner of the cheap loafers. "It's supposed to be lucky, but that'll be the day. I never have any kind of luck except for the bad kind."

 

"Well" I joked. "You did just have a beautiful woman fall at your feet."

 

"Beautiful?" he snorted bitterly. "You? Beautiful? You're probably a four out of ten at best, and even you probably think you should be dating some Brad Pitt lookalike of a high earning lawyer...rather than a struggling mortuary attendant who worked hard all his life only to be taken for everything he had by his bitch of an ex wife who decided she wanted to 'return to the land of the living' as she put it."

 

"Okay." I said. "Well, would you like to beat me up or something? I'm free in about an hour or so."

 

"Okay, but it won't help" he said, crying softly. "Nothing can chase these blues away, but don't let that stop you trying desperately, with increasingly false cheeriness, every day for the rest of your life while I drizzle incessantly on your parade."

[toolforgrowth]

Ladies, I'm going to go on record and say that I completely understand and agree with the intent of this thread. I don't really have much sympathy for people who constantly complain about their plight instead of doing something about it.

 

Here's where I'm going put in a big BUT.

 

I agree with most of the feminist philosophy. I believe women should earn as much as men for doing equal work. I believe in paid maternity leave. I believe in social programs like WIC, TANF, and SNAP.

 

But I will say that there are lot of women who make very poor choices and whine about their plight. I've met women who turned down really great guys to go after the "bad boys", get continually burned, and then wonder why they can't meet a "decent guy". I've seen women use men for free meals or free drinks. Hell, my xWW tried to clean me out in the divorce, cheated, and let her other ex husband WHO HAS A FELONY FOR CHILD NEGLECT watch our daughter while she got it on with her xAP, and then chastises me for not wanting her around me in any circumstance as a result and basically believes I should just "get over it".

 

I will never marry again.

 

I will never be dependent upon anyone else's income to pay my bills.

 

I will never co-mingle my funds with anyone. Ever. Including my GF.

 

I will never co-sign on anything with anyone. Ever. You want that new car? You pay for it.

 

The difference is I don't call this whining. I call them boundaries; what I am and am not okay with. It's one thing to learn life's lessons and act accordingly; yet entirely another to wallow in self pity.

[preraph]

^ I think the difference there is that you didn't just whine about it. You began making life changes to fix it. A whiner often just keeps whining without taking steps to fix himself or situation.

 

I agree with you about the women whining part. I think the biggest thing they whine about (besides not texting back and forth all day) is their bad relationship, which they very often then refuse to get out of, hoping it will change.

[toolforgrowth]

^ I think the difference there is that you didn't just whine about it. You began making life changes to fix it. A whiner often just keeps whining without taking steps to fix himself or situation.

 

I agree with you about the women whining part. I think the biggest thing they whine about (besides not texting back and forth all day) is their bad relationship, which they very often then refuse to get out of, hoping it will change.

 

True. I didn't whine, I acted.

 

However, I've certainly been lambasted by women before for the changes I made as a result of those life lessons. The key is that I recognize that they are entitled to their opinions, even though I simultaneously tell them that I don't seek their approval for my actions.

 

The men who come on LS and comment on double standards in dating and finances when it comes to women, I think, are actually correct. There are indeed a lot of double standards, which really turned me off to dating for quite a while. The issue is that they want women to validate those double standards. They still crave that validation from women even when they fully recognize there are many double standards at play.

 

Feminism has taught women to not seek validation from men. I have no issue with that. The issue is that men don't have an equivalent philosophy; men still seek validation from women on various levels, be it simply sex, or recognition of achievements, or their sense of worth/value, or even on their opinions.

 

Men need to learn how to not seek that validation. They need to learn to be okay with themselves, their beliefs, and their actions, regardless of how they may be perceived by women.

 

I noticed that my luck with women dramatically increased when I stopped caring what they thought about me. I live my life according to my rules; end of story. I don't need a woman's approval in order for me to do so.

 

Men still seek the approval of women, at least on some level, even if they have legitimate complaints about them. They want women to say "Yes, you're right. This happens, and it's unfair." I think that's an unrealistic expectation; society has taught them that men will put up with it, because by and large, they will. Their need for approval is so great that they keep trying and trying.

 

This goes back to men whining online. They're desperate for the approval of their opinions and perceptions. I say, forget about gaining their approval. They're not required to approve of your perceptions. Instead, simply recognize that your perceptions are largely based upon your reality, and act accordingly. Make the necessary changes to adjust to those perceptions, even if that means making yourself unavailable. Don't whine about it online, just do it. If a woman seems shallow, don't sleep with her even if she's hot. The fact that a guy will still sleep with her is a tacit approval of her actions, even if he has no intention of dating her.

 

My life improved when I ditched OLD. I actually agree with the men who say that we have a much tougher time with OLD. I've been there, I know what it's like. So I stopped trying OLD, and I met my GF in real life. Why keep participating and banging my head against a wall in a game that is already rigged against me? Learn to walk away. Seriously, if all the "good guys" simply walked away from OLD, do you think women would keep going there anymore if the pool of decent, available men online simply dried up?

 

I think that men will realize that have a lot more choices once they learn to say, "I am not available and will not just date or sleep with any female." The saying "you want what you can't have" is so true, which is why I think many men continually strive for that validation and approval; they know they can't get it, so they want it even more.

 

I had a lot more women going after me when I adopted the philosophy of "It's gonna take a mighty special woman for me to give up my single status." And that mighty special woman came into my life at the recommendation of a dear friend who knew I had value, and that my GF had value, and that we would be compatible because of that.

 

She was right.

[ComingInHot]

Why are women so offended when men simply acknowledge some general truths?

 

Just look at the statistics. More women leave men than vice-versa.

 

But then they try and turn it around and say "oh that's because women are stronger and more brave to leave a failed relationship".

 

L O f'in L.

 

 

Wait. Which part are you acknowledging?

That you whine?

Or,

Generally piss -n- moan about women's faults?

Sincerely

CiH*

[toolforgrowth]

Wait. Which part are you acknowledging?

That you whine?

Or,

Generally piss -n- moan about women's faults?

Sincerely

CiH*

 

See, this is precisely what I'm talking about. I'm not dissing ComingInHot at all here, so please don't think I'm coming down on her. Rather, it illustrates the exact point I'm trying to make about perceptions, validation, and approval.

 

NGC wants women to validate his perceptions.

 

This is also why these men are perceived of as weak. I guarantee that most women, at least on some level, understand there are double standards at work, some of which benefit them. And I think it's human nature to exploit that, at least to some degree. Heck, haven't we men done that a jillion times in the past? I'm not saying it's "right", but I am saying it's "human" to take the path of least resistance.

 

NGC, instead of pissing and moaning about women's faults, what are you going to do in response to said faults? Are you going to stop sleeping with shallow women? Are you going to make yourself unavailable? Are you going to stop OLD? Are you going to strictly enforce your boundaries? And most importantly, are you going to stop trying to gain their approval for your perceptions?

 

Women leave men more because they've learned how to leave bad relationships. Have we men learned how to do the same thing? We all know women have faults. They're people, just like men, and all people have faults. Again, this is human nature; none of us are perfect...none.

 

You're trying to get women to acknowledge their faults by words rather than actions. Words mean nothing...they're empty air. Actions have more value. If a shallow, entitled woman keeps getting rejected by decent guys, don't you think at some point a light bulb would click in her brain as a result? If you keep getting taken advantage of by women who merely want you to buy them stuff, and you finally say "I've had enough. The women I date will go dutch or I won't date them...period", and enforce it, don't you think they'll learn that you're not going to be taken advantage of, even if they flash their hot boobies at you?

 

Consequences are the ultimate teacher of lessons.

 

EDIT: I see nothing wrong with a guy who will only go dutch while dating. That's his boundary. He's free to live his life as he sees fit, and the approval of women is not required. I personally have no issue paying, but that's just me...other men are entitled to have different opinions based on what they are and aren't okay with.

 

But this constant need to validate those boundaries with women is completely unnecessary. Some will be okay with it, and some won't. So focus on the ones that are okay with it and ignore the rest.

 

Seems pretty simple to me.

Edited March 3, 2015 by toolforgrowth

[preraph]

Feminism has taught women to not seek validation from men. I have no issue with that. The issue is that men don't have an equivalent philosophy; men still seek validation from women on various levels, be it simply sex, or recognition of achievements, or their sense of worth/value, or even on their opinions.

 

Men need to learn how to not seek that validation. They need to learn to be okay with themselves, their beliefs, and their actions, regardless of how they may be perceived by women.

 

That's a good observation. Yes, more women have built their own identities in this century by having their own accomplishments and not always having to rely on men. And that's a good thing.

 

I think the root of most validation issues doesn't always rest on reason, though. I think it often stems directly from very low self-esteem and that's why you see this general cluster of frustration, anger, fear associated with impairment of social skills (and, yes, simple horniness) culminating in the subject of this thread, bitterness and the expression thereof, and often with a soupcon of entitlement thrown in. It's not so much a choice as being stuck running in place, paralyzed to change or, as you suggest, learning to love yourself enough to live with yourself without outside validation to prop you up and make you feel okay about yourself.

 

I've read a lot about violent crime over the decades, and though I by no means am comparing any gentlemen on this forum to the ones that go completely off the rails, it illustrates my point. Nearly all murder/suicides are a result of very low self-esteem. Having the woman gives him, in his mind, worth. He relies on her for his feeling of wellbeing and self-worth. When someone very extreme in that regard has a wife or girlfriend leave, he feels he is nothing if she leaves, and that's why he may go so far as to take her life and then end his own. He's not just losing a woman, but he's losing the thing that was making him feel an iota better about himself, the thing that was propping him up. Of course, anyone that insecure holds on very tight and always has control issues and jealousy issues. It's just one big bag of worms when it is really extreme.

 

I'd much rather see forum members airing it all out here rather than keeping it all inside and letting it build up.

[Camaro Guy]

However, since height is such an important part of looks for a man, I average my height (which I would rate a 1) and my looks (8-9), meaning that I'm about a 4 or a 5.

 

So, my league would be around a 3-6, looks-wise. Throw in the occasional 7 now and then.

 

This has been pretty consistent with what I've gotten. I can't get an 8+. I don't think I ever have, which, again, is consistent with my looks.

 

 

What the **** is this..

[NJ123]

What the **** is this..

 

legit lol'd

[DukeNukem47]

What the **** is this..

 

Laws of attraction.

[NJ123]

Laws of attraction.

 

The thing is that doesn't apply to all women. What if there's a woman that doesn't care if you're short. If you're a legit 8 or 9 in looks, she'd want you.

[DukeNukem47]

The thing is that doesn't apply to all women. What if there's a woman that doesn't care if you're short. If you're a legit 8 or 9 in looks, she'd want you.

 

I don't know if I'm a legit 8 or 9 in looks (just basing this off of internet ratings).

 

My rejection rate suggests that I am about a 4-5 overall regardless.

[dreamingoftigers]

Lots of men in prison have a woman waiting for him on the outside

 

Many women that have men in prison remain with the man because they know exactly where he is. It's a form of control, knowing your man is not wandering around, chatting up and sexing up some other woman.

 

I think maybe the guy in prison isn't whining.

 

 

Maybe that's how much some women want a guy that doesn't whine.

 

 

But seriously, I do think there is something to the "at least I know where he is every night" theory.

[William]

Moderation has given this thread plenty of leash but it stops at height and leagues. Henceforth, such utterances will be met with the sound of silence. Yes, I'll do a search

[DukeNukem47]

I think maybe the guy in prison isn't whining.

 

 

Maybe that's how much some women want a guy that doesn't whine.

 

If a woman wants a man that has felony charges, can't hold down a job, and has drug problems that doesn't whine over a man that is a law abiding citizen and has a stable 6 figure job but whines, who am I to argue?

 

To each their own, I suppose.

[dreamingoftigers]

If a woman wants a man that has felony charges, can't hold down a job, and has drug problems that doesn't whine over a man that is a law abiding citizen and has a stable 6 figure job but whines, who am I to argue?

 

To each their own, I suppose.

 

If those were the only two options on the planet, and I had to choose, I guess I would just get ear plugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what felony?

[autumnnight]

If a woman wants a man that has felony charges, can't hold down a job, and has drug problems that doesn't whine over a man that is a law abiding citizen and has a stable 6 figure job but whines, who am I to argue?

 

To each their own, I suppose.

 

Nah, I'd pick the whiner and believe me, if he was with me he wouldn't be whining

 

Did I just say that - eek

 

Ah, and I do know one thing that is officially less attractive than a whiner: a control freak who thinks he can read my mind (and no Duke, I don't mean you )

[preraph]

 

However, since height is such an important part of looks for a man <snip>

 

I think you forgot the most important thing. You have to figure in your personality too. And that's something you can change for the better with work.

Edited March 3, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Superfluous quote content redacted

[autumnnight]

I do think whining, in and of itself, is something that can fade once a person has had a number of positive experiences. I remember going through several months in a row where every time I thought I would get ahead, something happened, like needing new tires, or a kid stepping on their glasses, or a fender bender.....By the time that fourth or fifth month rolled around, I was definitely feeling whiny

 

The problem comes when whining is coupled with stubbornness, a need to control and have power, and the tendency to treat adults like children. When someone displays THOSE traits, such a person is not generally liked or respected. Unfortunately, this usually just results in them tightening the noose and becoming MORE bigmanoncampusy and obnoxious.

 

I think the reason it bothers me is because I am a middle aged adult woman with multiple degrees, a good deal of self-awareness, and a lot more tact in general than a lost of people I know.

 

When treated like a child or micromanaged, I tend to get....grumpy. And then when someone assumes they can read my mind and intentions...well, I REALLY hate that.