Informal Survey: How many of you LS women are turned on by whining?

[elaine567]

There is a regular circling of the wagons on this board that does seem to try and monopolise debate. Gloria alluded to it and total respect to her, as a woman, for recognising it.

 

Its hard not to agree. I find that women get quite positive advice, men with genuine (ie not cartoonish, OTT) dating/attraction gripes about women get quite negative advice and are always encouraged to work on some perceived fault that the poster thinks they have. Its like a magic bullet for dealing with men really. No need to be constructive, just tell him to loook at himself in the mirror and stop whining. Job done!

 

Women on threads on LS also get told to look at themselves, sort themselves out, work on themselves, so I do not see that as a valid criticism.

But I do see when some men, and I emphasise some, are given similar advice, they do not want to accept that advice.

They are right, everyone else is wrong.

Whereas most women are more accepting of that type of advice, they are willing to acknowledge that THEY are doing something wrong and are willing to seek ways to correct it.

[thefooloftheyear]

In keeping with what is or is not attractive in a man, I know that I can really only speak for myself. Some of what I find attractive will be typical of most women. Some would not. Sometimes it is easier to make lists.

 

Here is what I find attractive in a man:

 

1. A man who will take responsibility for himself

2. A man who is willing to examine himself

3. A man who will always give proper attention to his side of the street

4. A man with a confident, positive attitude

5. A man who has respect for all humans in general (which includes women)

6. A man who assumes the best but prepares for the worst and not the other way around. In other words, he will assume the woman with whom he interacts has GOOD intentions unless or until she proves otherwise, and then he will respond in a way that illustrates class and self-respect

7. Consistency – the rules do not change depending on who it is, who he thinks he knows it is, or which pet agenda is on the table

 

Here are some things I find Unattractive in a man:

 

1. Hypocrisy. Enough said

2. A man who chooses to be a victim – it smacks of weakness.

3. A man who assumes the worst and expects the best without working for it

4. A man who blames others instead of examining himself

5. A man whose favorite word when presented with practical truth is “but”

6. A man who is demeaning and selfish

7. A man who expects something for nothing

8. A man who stalks online

9. A man who uses the internet or power and intimidation

10. A man who becomes obsessed with a stranger or agenda and won’t let go

11. A man who won’t get a job

12. A man who has no front teeth – unless it was some accident and he has a partial

13. A man who is bald but thinks the stringy ponytail down his back somehow counts as hair. If he is cleanly bald…hubba hubba. But no string ponytail

 

 

Ok....now tell us a little bit about yourself...

 

TFY

[autumnnight]

Ok....now tell us a little bit about yourself...

 

TFY

 

I am an imperfect, slightly curvy, hysterically funny, kinda romantic, middle aged woman who can be sweet as honey or cut to the bone - and that is not necessarily something I am proud of. I have made good choices and bad choices. I'm glad God loves me anyway. I am a great cook but not a great housekeeper. I could use some situps. I have the best kids in the entire world. I cannot throw a football, but I can change a tire. I love pink and skirts and lipstick, but I burp really loud if no one else is at home.

 

Some men would find me attractive. Some wouldn't notice me at all. A few might run screaming if I came into the room lol.

 

Oh, and I am really a superhero.

[Woggle]

I do understand why a man who constantly bashes women would not be attractive because I sure don't find man haters attractive.

[thefooloftheyear]

Women on threads on LS also get told to look at themselves, sort themselves out, work on themselves, so I do not see that as a valid criticism.

But I do see when some men, and I emphasise some, are given similar advice, they do not want to accept that advice.

They are right, everyone else is wrong.

Whereas most women are more accepting of that type of advice, they are willing to acknowledge that THEY are doing something wrong and are willing to seek ways to correct it.

 

Id say its the opposite....IRL, anyway...I find that guys are more likely to be introspective and self critical....whereas women always think its the other persons fault....in my world anyway..so Id gladly accept that mileage will vary...

 

 

Also, in my limited experience with internet forums, even though they are well intentioned, women give bad advice to men and men give equally bad advice to women....

 

Hence the proverbial "Mexican Standoff" that you often see on here...

 

TFY

[StanMusial]

Sometimes there are legitimate gripes and other times it's just silliness.

 

I don't feel sorry for the 20 something guys in here that strike out on OLD sites. And spend the rest of their time playing video games or playing with their shween. I mean for crying out loud go out and get a life. There are a ton of normal, cute girls out there that don't get mixed up in that mess. Don't let that nonsense turn you upside down.

 

I have more sympathy for guys that might be mid thirties or older, have a demanding career or maybe kids or a demanding hobby or whatever and try it out in a well-meaning way. Reading some on here might help you figure it out.

 

I have given advice based on my experiences, I don't post a bunch of pop psychology babble or google the internets for articles to back up my points. I learned a lot from other people and observations, others can too.

[insert_name]

Women on threads on LS also get told to look at themselves, sort themselves out, work on themselves, so I do not see that as a valid criticism.

But I do see when some men, and I emphasise some, are given similar advice, they do not want to accept that advice.

They are right, everyone else is wrong.

Whereas most women are more accepting of that type of advice, they are willing to acknowledge that THEY are doing something wrong and are willing to seek ways to correct it.

 

In response to that I cant help but cite Gaeta's recent thread about OLD, where the females rallied round and discussed how the men on OLD were 'second tier' men (how insulting is that?!) because no woman IRL wanted them. No introspection encouraged there by women for someone who admitted to having been on 100+ dates with no success, just positive reinforcement that its not you honey, its him. Imagine what would be said to a man who said he had been on 100+ dates with no result!

[autumnnight]

In response to that I cant help but cite Gaeta's recent thread about OLD, where the females rallied round and discussed how the men on OLD were 'second tier' men (how insulting is that?!) because no woman IRL wanted them. No introspection encouraged there by women for someone who admitted to having been on 100+ dates with no success, just positive reinforcement that its not you honey, its him. Imagine what would be said to a man who said he had been on 100+ dates with no result!

OK, you do have a point. That seemed some pretty instant snap judgement and "nexting" there. And I didn't bother posting. Actually I probably post more improvement advice to men because they generally accept it better than most women do.

[elaine567]

In response to that I cant help but cite Gaeta's recent thread about OLD, where the females rallied round and discussed how the men on OLD were 'second tier' men (how insulting is that?!) because no woman IRL wanted them. No introspection encouraged there by women for someone who admitted to having been on 100+ dates with no success, just positive reinforcement that its not you honey, its him. Imagine what would be said to a man who said he had been on 100+ dates with no result!

 

The difference being that Gaeta does not come across as hating the entire male gender, she just wants to find the right one.

And of couse there are no "second tier" women in men's eyes.

Every women is a top class gem...

[StanMusial]

In response to that I cant help but cite Gaeta's recent thread about OLD, where the females rallied round and discussed how the men on OLD were 'second tier' men (how insulting is that?!) because no woman IRL wanted them. No introspection encouraged there by women for someone who admitted to having been on 100+ dates with no success, just positive reinforcement that its not you honey, its him. Imagine what would be said to a man who said he had been on 100+ dates with no result!

 

I couldn't remember the poster but I remember the 100+ dates. No one will ever convince me that this is normal in any way.

[insert_name]

The difference being that Gaeta does not come across as hating the entire male gender, she just wants to find the right one.

And of couse there are no "second tier" women in men's eyes.

Every women is a top class gem...

 

I was going to throw you a rope ladder, but it sounds like you actually want a new shovel because you have worn the old one out.

[GoodOnPaper]

The difference being that Gaeta does not come across as hating the entire male gender, she just wants to find the right one.

 

I think struggling guys want to find the right one. The way we vent is a completely separate matter. We can vent anonymously on the internet without losing face in front of our friends and loved ones - it's OK if whining is not attractive because we're not trying to attract women when we're on this board anyway.

[insert_name]

OK, you do have a point. That seemed some pretty instant snap judgement and "nexting" there. And I didn't bother posting. Actually I probably post more improvement advice to men because they generally accept it better than most women do.

 

I appreciate the objectivity. Thats what I mean about wagon circling. Positive reinforcement but done in a way that diminishes other people's value in order to enhance their own. Pretty vicious when there are people on here with self esteem issues.

[autumnnight]

I appreciate the objectivity. Thats what I mean about wagon circling. Positive reinforcement but done in a way that diminishes other people's value in order to enhance their own. Pretty vicious when there are people on here with self esteem issues.

 

I'll share something else. When I was having tons of self-doubts and striking out at every turn, I had a nice gaggle of female friends in the same boat, and we spent a lot of time patting each other and nodding at each others' assessment of how unfair life was.

 

Then I met a friend in college who was loyal and sweet as all get out, but very no nonsense. She basically told me to grow up, get realistic, and stop being so whiny and desperate. She said guys could see it coming a mile away no matter how much I tried to hide it, and until I could be content with myself I had no business dating.

 

Boy was i mad. But you know, my whiny friends and hadn't made much progress going the "you're right, life is awful" support group route. So I got busy and got a life and quit worrying about my weekends or what they guy really meant when he smiled t me for longer than usual.

 

Her kick in the pity partying pants did me more good than years of woe is me.

 

And I'm a soft, sensitive female!

[preraph]

The only whiner I knew in real life, it came off as strong abrasive sarcasm and "only joking" comments insulting people and especially women. I worked with him and happened to meet his dad one time, and then I knew where he got his superior feeling from and his disrespect to women. He felt very entitled to a hot girlfriend. He was an average looking guy, a bad alcoholic. He did have a hot girlfriend when I first met him, a local model. She waited on him hand and foot but he was stupid and one of those guys who said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," so he didn't marry her when he could have and before she got sick of him. One day she told me quietly she was sick of him not even picking up his own socks, and a month later, she had left him. He was pretty whiny after that, because the chance of him ever replacing her with someone as attractive and acquiescent was nil. He got more and more bitter, lost his job from being so sarcastic and caustic all the time, and just kept going downhill. He was right upfront about his issues with women and his issues with authority. His whining came off as arrogant and abrasive, not as pitiful and low self-esteem. He learned his behavior from his dad and then petrified his brain with alcohol and just got stuck there.

[autumnnight]

I remember reading a really long Online Dating topic a few years ago. There was this one guy who was so picky. This girl was too chunky. That girl was too tall. The other girl didn't have pretty teeth. He wanted a model. Now I didn't know him at the time, but later he friended me on facebook.

 

He was blond and balding badly. He was one of those people who didn't really have a chin...it just sort of merged with his neck. He was squishy with a pot belly.

 

THIS was the picky guy who wanted a model.

 

And I have encountered a lot of people like that, more men than women, but both. Who apparently have not accurately assessed themselves in comparison to the rest of the population.

 

I could probably get Joe Mantegna or the teacher guy from Breaking Bad. I would have no shot at all with George Clooney or Hugh Jackman. I know where I land in the hierarchy.

[Maleficent]

I remember reading a really long Online Dating topic a few years ago. There was this one guy who was so picky. This girl was too chunky. That girl was too tall. The other girl didn't have pretty teeth. He wanted a model. Now I didn't know him at the time, but later he friended me on facebook.

 

He was blond and balding badly. He was one of those people who didn't really have a chin...it just sort of merged with his neck. He was squishy with a pot belly.

 

THIS was the picky guy who wanted a model.

 

And I have encountered a lot of people like that, more men than women, but both. Who apparently have not accurately assessed themselves in comparison to the rest of the population.

 

I could probably get Joe Mantegna or the teacher guy from Breaking Bad. I would have no shot at all with George Clooney or Hugh Jackman. I know where I land in the hierarchy.

 

Through the years, I noticed that the ones who have the most trouble in dating are usually the ones with high expectations of their partner's physical attributes. (And that applies to men, women, OLD and RLD)

[Mangina]

I remember reading a really long Online Dating topic a few years ago. There was this one guy who was so picky. This girl was too chunky. That girl was too tall. The other girl didn't have pretty teeth. He wanted a model. Now I didn't know him at the time, but later he friended me on facebook.

 

He was blond and balding badly. He was one of those people who didn't really have a chin...it just sort of merged with his neck. He was squishy with a pot belly.

 

THIS was the picky guy who wanted a model.

 

And I have encountered a lot of people like that, more men than women, but both. Who apparently have not accurately assessed themselves in comparison to the rest of the population.

 

I could probably get Joe Mantegna or the teacher guy from Breaking Bad. I would have no shot at all with George Clooney or Hugh Jackman. I know where I land in the hierarchy.

That is league as we say on here. Now most people on here do not believe in league and think looks are purely subjective

[autumnnight]

Through the years, I noticed that the ones who have the most trouble in dating are usually the ones with high expectations of their partner's physical attributes. (And that applies to men, women, OLD and RLD)

 

Yep. They overestimate their own outward value. I know that sounds bad, but that is the way it is. Let me preface this by saying I like me just the way I am for the most part.

 

But if we are talking universal standards here. I am probably a 7 out of 10. I'm not going to date a 3 probably, but I'm also not going to fool myself into thinking I rate a 10.

 

It's like career. Don't expect to be an engineer at Nasa when you graduated with a certificate in shoe repair. There's nothing wrong with shoe repair, but you're not gonna work at Nasa.

[DukeNukem47]

I remember reading a really long Online Dating topic a few years ago. There was this one guy who was so picky. This girl was too chunky. That girl was too tall. The other girl didn't have pretty teeth. He wanted a model. Now I didn't know him at the time, but later he friended me on facebook.

 

He was blond and balding badly. He was one of those people who didn't really have a chin...it just sort of merged with his neck. He was squishy with a pot belly.

 

THIS was the picky guy who wanted a model.

 

And I have encountered a lot of people like that, more men than women, but both. Who apparently have not accurately assessed themselves in comparison to the rest of the population.

 

I could probably get Joe Mantegna or the teacher guy from Breaking Bad. I would have no shot at all with George Clooney or Hugh Jackman. I know where I land in the hierarchy.

 

For me, it's more about certainly personality traits than looks.

 

I talked about a woman that I work with in another thread that is just amazing. Definitely not good-looking, but she laughs at all of my jokes, waits on me hand and foot, helps out a lot, and listens to everything that I say.

 

If I met a woman like that that was single, I would snatch her up in a second. No question about it. I wouldn't care what she looked like either.

 

However, since I've rarely met any other woman like that in my life, I really haven't been impressed all that much. Most seem to want me to wait on them. If I'm going to wait on a woman, she better be really hot.

[DukeNukem47]

Yep. They overestimate their own outward value. I know that sounds bad, but that is the way it is. Let me preface this by saying I like me just the way I am for the most part.

 

But if we are talking universal standards here. I am probably a 7 out of 10. I'm not going to date a 3 probably, but I'm also not going to fool myself into thinking I rate a 10.

 

It's like career. Don't expect to be an engineer at Nasa when you graduated with a certificate in shoe repair. There's nothing wrong with shoe repair, but you're not gonna work at Nasa.

 

I find that women overestimate their looks far more than men.

 

It's pretty difficult to be a 7/10 (since 8-9/10 are model material and 10/10 pretty much doesn't exist). So I'm skeptical of this claim.

[StanMusial]

The only whiner I knew in real life, it came off as strong abrasive sarcasm and "only joking" comments insulting people and especially women. I worked with him and happened to meet his dad one time, and then I knew where he got his superior feeling from and his disrespect to women. He felt very entitled to a hot girlfriend. He was an average looking guy, a bad alcoholic. He did have a hot girlfriend when I first met him, a local model. She waited on him hand and foot but he was stupid and one of those guys who said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," so he didn't marry her when he could have and before she got sick of him. One day she told me quietly she was sick of him not even picking up his own socks, and a month later, she had left him. He was pretty whiny after that, because the chance of him ever replacing her with someone as attractive and acquiescent was nil. He got more and more bitter, lost his job from being so sarcastic and caustic all the time, and just kept going downhill. He was right upfront about his issues with women and his issues with authority. His whining came off as arrogant and abrasive, not as pitiful and low self-esteem. He learned his behavior from his dad and then petrified his brain with alcohol and just got stuck there.

 

So apparently models are turned on by whiny men? Hey guys, looks like you're in luck!

[Maleficent]

All of this x1000.

 

I have noticed the same thing. I can't say for sure whether I see it more in men or women though. I did notice that OLD breeds this mentality like crazy though. I also think that the story told earlier about how all the female friends would blame everyone but themselves made this sort of thing worse. If everyone is telling you that you deserve better, you're going to start to believe it.

 

'You deserve better' is usually not used when someone has a nice, caring and lovIng partner though...

[thefooloftheyear]

So apparently models are turned on by whiny men? Hey guys, looks like you're in luck!

 

he probably told her that he was gonna whine and dine her and she bought it....

 

TFY

[autumnnight]

I find that women overestimate their looks far more than men.

 

It's pretty difficult to be a 7/10 (since 8-9/10 are model material and 10/10 pretty much doesn't exist). So I'm skeptical of this claim.

 

You are more negative than me, so you would probably rate me a 5.

 

I took all models s 10's.

 

But thanks for the boost. I'm sure your assessment of women charms them big time.

 

For the purposes of illumination I'll go ahead and tell you your post felt a bit like a slap. If that is how you talk to women, you may have just uncovered part of your problem.

Edited March 2, 2015 by autumnnight