Her Friend Now & Our Kids In The Future

[FallenA]

Two things you need to do immediately, talk to a lawyer so you understand your rights because you don't know how deep this rabbit hole goes yet and book a polygraph. There is only one way to get to the truth when you can't believe anything coming out of her mouth. Yes she helped you in the past but friend, she is having unprotected sex with men and women, she has put your life and the life of your children at danger. There are many ways to get an STD and she has already shown you how reckless she can be.

 

I don't need a lawyer, the only thing she will want is joint custody of the kids.

 

I just spoke to her about a lie detector, she said it is an excellent idea & she will book one tomorrow due to the fact that I'm busy.

She once again reiterated that she will do ANYTHING I need to heal. Easy to say I know.

 

That said because of the uniqueness of your situation in how many sexual partners you have I would let her know should R go forward that you would like to keep that freebie on the back burner (or the threesome) until you are at an emotionally better place or the marriage is. And then decide if you will even that score for lack of a better word.

 

I must be getting good at this, that's exactly what I said when we talked earlier.

 

Also, I would like to point out that she did try another guy... but still married you. It may be safe to assume that the other man was not an impressive experience.

This is exactly what she has said, but I did point out does that means things would have been different had he of been any good?

 

From my experience, if a person is a person who has limited their sexual partners due to how they view sex/relationships then goes against their core self during an emotional time in their life...they have a more difficult time moving forward in a healthy way.

I have limited partners because I don't lie or cheat not because of any views I have about sex. Indeed my views on sex & sexuality are very liberal. If I had not been in a committed relationship I have no doubt I would have a lot more experience.

 

About lying to her if there is any more....I'm not sure that's a great idea. Don't make any promises about it.

I agree & I don't feel comfortable doing it but I think it's her fear & shame that's stopping her from opening up (unless I already know everything).

We will book the lie detector but her reaction to the question has me thinking there may be nothing more to tell.

[minimariah]

I can tell you from experience that this removes your moral high ground... BUT it also takes away your hate and resentment... plus restores a good chunk of your self esteem. However it has to be done right. You can't fall into an affair, and hiring a prostitute leaves you feeling empty. Picking up a girl from a bar for a one night stand is freaking hard as hell.

 

this is true except for one thing - it doesn't take away the resentment. at least it didn't in my case. you do feel better and it does wonders for your self esteem but... the pain is still there. sometimes it makes people feel even worse.

 

My friend in your situation actually fell into an affair for nearly 2 years. His wife got extremely upset that one time turned into more like two hundred... and they divorced. On the positive side he is now married to the woman he had an affair with and they are both very happy.

 

i'm curious about this case - was this also a revenge affair (was your friend cheated on first by your wife, too?) or did they have an open marriage & he had a pass anyway?

[sidney2718]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really know the full truth right now, but let's assume it was only these 2 incidents in the space of 1 month. Should I give up on a 20 year relationship because of her actions in the space of 1 month 8 years ago?

 

No. There is more. Her refusal to answer your questions NOW are killing the relationship. One thing you might try is to tell her that the best chance she has of keeping your marriage going is to answer ALL of your questions, including the questions that her answers might bring up.

 

Why? Because as others have said the problem is trust. She has to build your trust. She cannot do that while keeping secrets.

 

She may feel that the truth will destroy the marriage and so she's best off saying nothing. But if you make it clear to her that saying nothing WILL destroy the marriage, you have a chance to learn the truth.

 

But be careful. If she does tell the truth, you have to be willing to at least try to save the marriage, unless you can't, in which case you need a divorce.

[sidney2718]

Do these actually work? Everything I have read has said they don't. If I thought they did she would have done one by now.

I mean they can't be used in court so how reliable are they?

 

They don't always work. They work 50-60% of the time. The rest of the time they fail by indicating lies when the truth was told or indicating truth when lies were told.

 

That is why they are not admissible in court. You can Google for more details.

[sidney2718]

This is an exceptionally good point, thank you. I will book one on Monday.

 

It doesn't matter if they work, only that she believes they do & I think I could convince her of that.

 

Bet she takes it & passes & I learn nothing else. Is that wishful thinking, I wonder? But my gut has been satisfied so we will see.

 

Edit to add, there's also my James Bond tactics that I am still using. If she looks up how to beat a lie detector then I know we are finished.

 

Be careful here. If she looks up the reliability of the test, what then? If I were she, I'd worry a LOT about errors in the test. As I said earlier, there are reasons why lie detector exams are not accepted in court.

[SawtoothMars]

i'm curious about this case - was this also a revenge affair (was your friend cheated on first by your wife, too?) or did they have an open marriage & he had a pass anyway?

 

Odd situation... His wife had an EA with a coworker and then he convinced her to open up the relationship. She is a bigger woman who didn't like to do the same activities as him. He loved rock climbing... And so does his affair partner/current spouse.

[sidney2718]

I just want to address something to those people who say I should run immediately.

As I alluded to, I had a very troubled childhood to say the least. I was 17 when I met my wife & I WAS on a path of self destruction. She worked with me for years to bring me out of that & always waited patiently no matter how much of a c**t I was to her. She saw the good in me that others didn't. I didn't cheat but other than that I used every trait I learned from my father to be the worst person possible.

She always stood by me no matter how bad I was.

Now, she is the one who has made the mistakes, I feel I owe it to her to give her a chance. It may not work & she may be making a fool of me but instead of the successful man I am now, without her I truly believe I would have died in my early twenties like quite a few of my teenage friends.

Not everything is black & white, sometimes there is grey. If she had of posted on a forum such as this when she was 20 & I 21 everyone would say run, he will never change, but I did.

Even if it doesn't work out & she hurts me again, she already earned her second chance long before she betrayed me. She really did save my life.

 

Your heart is speaking to you. That can't be all bad...

 

Look, if your wife had someone else lined up, she'd be divorcing YOU, not asking for forgiveness. Or if she thought you were impossible to live with, again she'd be divorcing you, not trying to keep you.

 

I do think that your best chance to get most of the truth from her (we can discuss what is "truth" another time) is to tell her the truth---that the marriage will almost certainly not survive her secrecy.

[FallenA]

No. There is more. Her refusal to answer your questions NOW are killing the relationship. One thing you might try is to tell her that the best chance she has of keeping your marriage going is to answer ALL of your questions, including the questions that her answers might bring up.

 

Why? Because as others have said the problem is trust. She has to build your trust. She cannot do that while keeping secrets.

 

She may feel that the truth will destroy the marriage and so she's best off saying nothing. But if you make it clear to her that saying nothing WILL destroy the marriage, you have a chance to learn the truth.

 

But be careful. If she does tell the truth, you have to be willing to at least try to save the marriage, unless you can't, in which case you need a divorce.

If you mean by "No. There is more." that there's more cheating then I would like to hire you to tell me the lottery numbers next weekend please. She will do a lie detector next week so we will know then I guess.

If you mean, no there's more problems with the relationship than what happened 8 years ago then I couldn't agree more.

Look, I know I haven't been very clear in some of my posts so I get that people may take things the wrong way. I normally a good writer, it's a part of my work, but when I write about this my thoughts are not exactly clear or coherent so things can become a bit messed up.

She hasn't refused to answer any questions about "facts", it's the "Why" question that's the issue.

While she has at least appeared to try to answer this question her answers to me have just not seemed right. I don't even know what I mean by that, but I'm just not convinced by what I hear. This is the reason for her going to IC, it's a case of if she can tell me why & I can accept it, then we have a chance. If I can't we don't.

I kind of think we are in a holding pattern until we do the lie detector & I give her a chance with the IC.

If she fails the test next week, everything will change again.

[sidney2718]

The thought of having a RA, revenge affair may sound great to your ego. Though two things will happen. You will still leave you feeling empty afterwards and it will cause your WW pain and more baggage to drag on your recovery.

 

Road and I do not always agree, but we agree on this. That has to mean something.

[FallenA]

They don't always work. They work 50-60% of the time. The rest of the time they fail by indicating lies when the truth was told or indicating truth when lies were told.

 

That is why they are not admissible in court. You can Google for more details.

50% to 60% that's f***ing useless.

Crap, crap, crap, crap. How do I KNOW the truth?

[sidney2718]

Here's the thing, I've been given numerous reasons why & then they always change. This is why I'm putting everything on her IC. If she can't give me the truth after a few weeks of that I have to give up.

She deserves a big chance given our past, which is why I have not immediately ended things due to TT, but I can't give anymore chances without destroying myself. I need this to start moving towards a resolution or I know I will end up eating myself from the inside out.

 

My GUESS is that there is more of what she thinks is bad stuff. It is one more reason why you have to have the truth.

[FallenA]

Road and I do not always agree, but we agree on this. That has to mean something.

Please read my posts RE this. I don't think you can call what she has offered or what I am considering an affair.

[sidney2718]

She hasn't refused to answer any questions about "facts", it's the "Why" question that's the issue.

While she has at least appeared to try to answer this question her answers to me have just not seemed right. I don't even know what I mean by that, but I'm just not convinced by what I hear.

 

OK. I'm sorry. I didn't understand.

 

This is now an entirely different question. Men and women don't think alike, especially about love and relationships. To overgeneralize, men tend to have sex and then build up an attraction to the woman. Women tend to build an attraction before having sex.

 

Often a reason for an affair is something that the spouse simply can't accept because it makes no sense to them. I've read cases where the wandering wife said: "I needed affection" and the husband replied: "I don't understand that. I work two jobs so that you can stay home with the kids, wear nice clothes, live in a nice house and so on."

 

I don't know if I've made my point clear. But I'd ask her to explain in the way that has the most truth for her (emotional things are rarely logical) and then listen very very carefully.

 

I wish you good luck!

[sidney2718]

50% to 60% that's f***ing useless.

Crap, crap, crap, crap. How do I KNOW the truth?

 

Don't take my word for it, Google for the information.

 

You can't KNOW the truth. All you can do is talk to her and LISTEN very carefully to what she says. She seems to be changing her story, probably looking for an explanation that YOU will accept as true. You need to know the explanation that SHE thinks is true.

[sidney2718]

Please read my posts RE this. I don't think you can call what she has offered or what I am considering an affair.

 

I understand. I really do. But the possible future of an affair for you should not be taking up brain space right now. Don't let it become a revenge vehicle.

 

And besides, if she knows you are doing it and can live with it, it isn't an affair.

[FallenA]

OK. I'm sorry. I didn't understand.

 

This is now an entirely different question. Men and women don't think alike, especially about love and relationships. To overgeneralize, men tend to have sex and then build up an attraction to the woman. Women tend to build an attraction before having sex.

 

Often a reason for an affair is something that the spouse simply can't accept because it makes no sense to them. I've read cases where the wandering wife said: "I needed affection" and the husband replied: "I don't understand that. I work two jobs so that you can stay home with the kids, wear nice clothes, live in a nice house and so on."

 

I don't know if I've made my point clear. But I'd ask her to explain in the way that has the most truth for her (emotional things are rarely logical) and then listen very very carefully.

 

I wish you good luck!

 

Thank you very much for your comments. I'm very distressed about the possibility of this test saying she is lying when she isn't. I'm going to do a lot of research tonight on this but I'm definitely doubting getting this test is a good idea. As stupid as it sounds I would rather she pass while lying than fail while telling the truth.

 

You make great points about differing reasons between genders however her reasons have sounded very much like what I would expect to hear from a man, that's why I struggle with it. There was no emotional connection, it was just sex apparently & she wasn't exceptionally attracted to the guys, they just happened to be there.

This could be true of course, but if it takes so little for her to cheat, then I should really worry. This is why the "why" is so difficult.

[FallenA]

I understand. I really do. But the possible future of an affair for you should not be taking up brain space right now. Don't let it become a revenge vehicle.

 

And besides, if she knows you are doing it and can live with it, it isn't an affair.

No it's really not a possibility right now. I am not even entertaining the thought of doing anything at the moment. We discussed it today & I said I reserve my right to use the "free pass" some time in the future when I can actually function as a normal person again.

I did also say I may never use it, as that's how I feel, but I do worry that I will resent giving her this "gift" that she was unwilling to give to me.

Once again, I'm probably thinking too far ahead, but I really love to have a long term plan for everything I do.

[Try]

2. She was in contact with the GF only (as far as I know) indeed she said a lot of bad things about the guy involved in the threesome. I asked her to break contact with the GF the other day & she did but I feel guilty about that.

Do not feel guilty even a little bit about this. The GF knew that she was married to you yet offered your wife a threesome with her and her on again off again boyfriend; this makes the GF a toxic friend that is not a friend of your relationship. Also, since you said that your wife specifically had sex with the GF during the threesome, that makes the GF not just a toxic friend but an affair partner. Full no contact for life with a toxic friend and affair partner is a must.

[FallenA]

Do not feel guilty even a little bit about this. The GF knew that she was married to you yet offered your wife a threesome with her and her on again off again boyfriend; this makes the GF a toxic friend that is not a friend of your relationship. Also, since you said that your wife specifically had sex with the GF during the threesome, that makes the GF not just a toxic friend but an affair partner. Full no contact for life with a toxic friend and affair partner is a must.

Yes, I have to say my guilt over this was short lived.

It stuck me just how uncaring & toxic this "friend" was when she didn't even respond to the NC email from my wife.

That really said a lot about her to me.

FYI, this woman did express some remorse to me shortly after DDay when I ripped into her via email over "destroying my life"

[road]

Please read my posts RE this. I don't think you can call what she has offered or what I am considering an affair.

 

 

 

I do not have to read that when a man wants to put his hot dog into a woman's bun that is not his wife while he is still married to his wife is infidelity. Robbing a bank is still wrong even if you know that the bank president will look the other way.

 

 

A marriage is for two people.

 

 

The OP is here because the WW brought in a third person. Which made a mess of things.

 

 

Now the BH wants to bring in a fourth person and make things worse. This shows that the BH has not learned anything. When a WW offers the free pass it is so she can tell the BH I let you get even and have sex with another woman. Stop complaining and talking about my affair.

 

 

Though if the BH had any semblance of intelligence he would see at least one of the many problems.

 

 

How is a the BH to feel even getting laid this Saturday night is going to make things better when his wife had been carrying on an affair for two years and has done the OM more times then she can remember?

 

 

Or of the OM was better then the BH. How is the BH going to one up his WW and find a woman better then his WW, and is willing to let him have a revenge bang. Oh Lady my WW had an affair and let the OM bang her brains out more times then she can remember and now she is letting me have sex with another woman tonight.

 

 

And, how the they chose to ignore the fact, repeated many times how a BH has had their RA and after wards it brought them no relief from their pain. Then to only realize that they are still feeling empty and now in addition they have sunk down the same level as the WW and the OM.

Edited March 2, 2015 by road

[FallenA]

I do not have to read that when a man wants to put his hot dog into a woman's bun that is not his wife while he is still married to his wife is infidelity. Robbing a bank is still wrong even if you know that the bank president will look the other way.

 

 

A marriage is for two people.

 

 

The OP is here because the WW brought in a third person. Which made a mess of things.

 

 

Now the BH wants to bring in a fourth person and make things worse. This shows that the BH has not learned anything. When a WW offers the free pass it is so she can tell the BH I let you get even and have sex with another woman. Stop complaining and talking about my affair.

 

 

Though if the BH had any semblance of intelligence he would see at least one of the many problems.

 

 

How is a the BH to feel even getting laid this Saturday night is going to make things better when his wife had been carrying on an affair for two years and has done the OM more times then she can remember?

 

 

Or of the OM was better then the BH. How is the BH going to one up his WW and find a woman better then his WW, and is willing to let him have a revenge bang. Oh Lady my WW had an affair and let the OM bang her brains out more times then she can remember and now she is letting me have sex with another woman tonight.

 

 

And, how the they chose to ignore the fact, repeated many times how a BH has had their RA and after wards it brought them no relief from their pain. Then to only realize that they are still feeling empty and now in addition they have sunk down the same level as the WW and the OM.

 

I would suggest that you look up swinging & poly marriages. These things are not for me but they do exist & can work for some people.

Saying all swingers commit infidelity is quite a ridiculous statement which is exactly what you said in your first line.

 

Edit to add: I guess because of your refusal to read any of my comments on the matter, you have 1) failed to understand that this is not something I'm actively perusing right now & 2) you really can't grasp my motivation for it at all.

Edited March 2, 2015 by FallenA

[road]

I would suggest that you look up swinging & poly marriages. These things are not for me but they do exist & can work for some people.

Saying all swingers commit infidelity is quite a ridiculous statement which is exactly what you said in your first line.

 

Edit to add: I guess because of your refusal to read any of my comments on the matter, you have 1) failed to understand that this is not something I'm actively perusing right now & 2) you really can't grasp my motivation for it at all.

 

 

 

I strongly suggest that you spend ten years gathering knowledge and experience on infidelity forums and see all the BH's that thought opening their marriages would reap benefits. Instead all that happened were the OM reaped their WW's into having affairs, then separating, then divorce.

 

 

You sadly think that you banging another woman will help. It has shown not to.

[FallenA]

I strongly suggest that you spend ten years gathering knowledge and experience on infidelity forums and see all the BH's that thought opening their marriages would reap benefits. Instead all that happened were the OM reaped their WW's into having affairs, then separating, then divorce.

 

 

You sadly think that you banging another woman will help. It has shown not to.

 

Do you understand the uniqueness of my situation? It's exceptionally rare. I bet you don't because you haven't actually read any of my posts.

[FallenA]

Update on the lie detector, I spent 3 to 4 hours last night doing research.

It's a pointless exercise, I would get just as much certainty from flipping a coin.

 

Also just for those "she could be with the OM now" people, we don't even live in the same country anymore, what I'm talking about happened 8 years ago.

[LifesontheUp]

I don't think you sleeping with an OW or having a three some with your wife is going to help matters. I believe it'll just complicate your problems.

 

The issue is she cheated years ago and she had lied for a long time since. You sleeping with an OW isn't going to solve what she did and also the worry you rightly have is what else has she lied about and has there been any further cheating.