Her Friend Now & Our Kids In The Future

[LifesontheUp]

I'm not sure I can answer the what to tell the kids question. Shouldn't you find out whether your eldest is yours first? That has a bearing on your answer should they ever ask surely?

[minimariah]

Open relationship, sure I would consider that if I was in a relationship with someone I trusted 100%. Unfortunately I'm not in a relationship like that anymore.

 

well... if you still want to be with her - you will need to learn how to trust her. sit down with her and ask her why she did it & why she stayed with you; work it out with her, the cause of everything. if she wants to explore - give her an open marriage as an option but only if you're truly okay with it.

 

also - see if the daughter is really yours; for medical reasons. in case of an emergency, it's useful to know who her bio parents are. and no, that won't change the way you view her... even if you aren't her bio father - you're still her father, you raised her. so there is that.

 

Should I give up on a 20 year relationship because of her actions in the space of 1 month 8 years ago?

 

why not?

 

if it's not something that works anymore - you should definitely leave. don't stay in a marriage because you've been together for a really long time, that's cowardice. this is much more than just her actions 8 years ago, it's about trust being broken. the foundation of your relationship is broken, that's a good enough reason to leave.

 

my point - do not stay because you had 20 long years and one bad month. sometimes, those 20 good years pale in comparison to that one bad month and it's just not worth it.

 

My question is what about when they are older? I plan to have an open & honest relationship with my kids about sex. Given when we got together & the relationship I hope to build with my kids I fully expect them to ask if we have only been with each other. But if they do what do I say? I can't lie to them about this can I?

 

you can discuss sex with your kids without mentioning your own sex life, telling them what you and your mother do in your bedroom is absolutely unnecessary. you can have the sex talk about consent & protection but your kids won't really stick around to ask you any additional questions... trust me.

 

telling your kids when they are older (by older i mean >16) is not a bad thing, but you need to tell it in a way that they don't end up hating their mother - if you can't do that, lie. tell them in a way they understand the importance of exploring their sexuality before they commit to one person, tell them in a way that you portray their mother as a human being who made a mistake & you were able to forgive her.

[FallenA]

I'm not sure I can answer the what to tell the kids question. Shouldn't you find out whether your eldest is your first? That has a bearing on your answer should they ever ask surely?

Not really, mine or not I don't think I could be comfortable lying to my kids.

Look if you saw my daughter with me you would assume she is mine. We look extremely similar. People have often said that they can see all of me & none of my wife in her.

I'm 99.9% certain she is mine but I won't check until she is older for reasons stated earlier in the thread.

She is innocent & has done nothing to bring this about, she should be protected & that is what I am doing.

[minimariah]

Normally I would agree, but when we tell our kids we have been together since we were teenagers don't you think it will come up? It may be cruel to her but is it not cruel to me to expect me to lie to my children to protect her.

Assuming we actually are still together then, which of course is far from certain at the moment.

 

but you won't be protecting her - you will protect your KIDS. their relationship with their mother needs to stay intact, that's what you're protecting. it's in their best interest to have a good relationship with their mother, THAT is what you're trying to protect.

[LifesontheUp]

You talk about protection which as a mum I get. Therefore I think you have answered your own question? Why hurt them unnecessarily? But this could be mute as you don't know if you and your wife will stay together.

[FallenA]

well... if you still want to be with her - you will need to learn how to trust her. sit down with her and ask her why she did it & why she stayed with you; work it out with her, the cause of everything. if she wants to explore - give her an open marriage as an option but only if you're truly okay with it.

 

also - see if the daughter is really yours; for medical reasons. in case of an emergency, it's useful to know who her bio parents are. and no, that won't change the way you view her... even if you aren't her bio father - you're still her father, you raised her. so there is that.

 

 

 

why not?

 

if it's not something that works anymore - you should definitely leave. don't stay in a marriage because you've been together for a really long time, that's cowardice. this is much more than just her actions 8 years ago, it's about trust being broken. the foundation of your relationship is broken, that's a good enough reason to leave.

 

my point - do not stay because you had 20 long years and one bad month. sometimes, those 20 good years pale in comparison to that one bad month and it's just not worth it.

 

 

 

you can discuss sex with your kids without mentioning your own sex life, telling them what you and your mother do in your bedroom is absolutely unnecessary. you can have the sex talk about consent & protection but your kids won't really stick around to ask you any additional questions... trust me.

 

telling your kids when they are older (by older i mean >16) is not a bad thing, but you need to tell it in a way that they don't end up hating their mother - if you can't do that, lie. tell them in a way they understand the importance of exploring their sexuality before they commit to one person, tell them in a way that you portray their mother as a human being who made a mistake & you were able to forgive her.

 

The open marriage was discussed very briefly, she says she does not want that. If he had of said yes to that I would have finished with her, but she didn't know that when I was asking her.

 

The reason for her IC now is so she can give me the answers to the questions of why she did it & why she married me. So far they have been unclear at best expect she says she married me because she loved me. The idea with the IC is I will either get answers that I can accept & begin to rebuild trust again or I won't & we are finished.

 

With regard to the kids, once again I wasn't clear. I am thinking about when they are over 16.

 

Edit to add, I get what people are saying about protecting the kids, maybe I could think about it like that. I would be protecting them not her. Very good point.

Edited February 28, 2015 by FallenA

[FallenA]

Edit 2: Having looked at your history, I get it now. Don't think everyone is as weak as yourself, I am not you & if I find myself regretting my decision she will be gone. I won't stay with her to punish myself or her like you have.

This comment was uncalled for & I would like to say sorry. I'm a bit stressed at the moment so I get a bit defensive.

[drifter777]

Normally I would agree, but when we tell our kids we have been together since we were teenagers don't you think it will come up? It may be cruel to her but is it not cruel to me to expect me to lie to my children to protect her.

Assuming we actually are still together then, which of course is far from certain at the moment.

Explaining the birds & bees is about as far as I went with my boys. They never asked more. My wife handled daughter and likely had to cover a lot more. I really think mom & dad's sex life is an inappropriate subject for your kids to bring up. If they do that's exactly what I'd tell them. They have no need to know.

[FallenA]

Explaining the birds & bees is about as far as I went with my boys. They never asked more. My wife handled daughter and likely had to cover a lot more. I really think mom & dad's sex life is an inappropriate subject for your kids to bring up. If they do that's exactly what I'd tell them. They have no need to know.

I can't say I agree.

Take this hypothetical conversation.

 

Kid: So you & mum have been together since you were teenagers?

Me: Yes kid we have

Kid: Wow, so you guys have only been with each other. That's a major commitment.

Me: Our sex life is none of your business

 

Now to me that answer would scream no, something major happened. Why would I not just say yes if that was the case?

I do like the example used earlier where if we do manage to make things work we can use our situation as an example but I think to throw up a barrier will do nobody any good.

I fully believe that no matter how much it hurts people should be told the truth & that's what I am talking about here. A time where my children will be "people" rather than "children". I'm not talking about conversations we will have when they are teens, more when they are older than that, when they start to comprehend just what the world is like.

Of course there's probably a 90% chance we won't be together in 12 months never mind 12 years so it may not matter, but it is something that has been bothering me which is why I started the thread.

From the general consensus it seems I was right to demand NC with the BFF, but it's still not making me feel less guilty about it.

I mean we don't even live near her anymore so it's not like they would meet up, but there was just something about her talking about that guy to her & not telling me that made me snap.

[road]

Because you get a paternity test done you will not stop loving your DD. And if you are not the father you do not have to reveal this right away.

 

 

As to wanting the whole truth then you need to have your WW take a polygraph test.

[minimariah]

Kid: Wow, so you guys have only been with each other. That's a major commitment.

 

come on - can you seriously imagine a teen saying this?

if you tell them you two are together since you were teens - they will either just assume you were each other's onlies OR they won't think about it - either way, i really don't think they will ask.

 

like i said - you can discuss sex with your kids without mentioning your marriage & your sex life and trust me... they sure won't ask you about it. i mean, did you want to know how many people your parents had sex with when you were a teen?

 

I do like the example used earlier where if we do manage to make things work we can use our situation as an example but I think to throw up a barrier will do nobody any good.

 

it's really not throwing up a barrier and i think you know that. but you're mad and hurt right now and you probably want to hurt and humiliate the W, too. if you stay together - you should definitely use it as an example of forgiveness and rebuilding trust. if not? it's definitely not up to you to explain anything. if they ask you why did you & the W divorce - either simply tell them that it didn't work out or tell them to ask their mother for further explanations. let her deal with the questions.

 

I fully believe that no matter how much it hurts people should be told the truth & that's what I am talking about here.

 

i disagree - truth can sometimes do damage much bigger than the lie & i speak from experience.

 

From the general consensus it seems I was right to demand NC with the BFF, but it's still not making me feel less guilty about it.

 

she cheated on you with her BFF - stop feeling guilty about it. you did the right thing. it was your W who should've offered you to break it off with her BFF in the 1st place. she can make new friends... the ones she won't cheat on you with.

 

i speak from experience - my parents divorced. and when i was older i wanted to know everything about it so i asked. and my mother told me her version of the story without ever mentioning what my father did. she simply said he betrayed her trust and that was it. i went to my dad to ask for further explanations and reasons and i got them.

 

you don't want to be the one who will "trash" their mother in front of them, trust me. it will seriously backfire because she has her own story, remember? you can easily look like the bad guy in that situation which is why i think you should let your W do the talking & you do the talking about how to move on, forgive and handle it.

[FallenA]

Because you get a paternity test done you will not stop loving your DD. And if you are not the father you do not have to reveal this right away.

 

 

As to wanting the whole truth then you need to have your WW take a polygraph test.

Do these actually work? Everything I have read has said they don't. If I thought they did she would have done one by now.

I mean they can't be used in court so how reliable are they?

[FallenA]

come on - can you seriously imagine a teen saying this?

if you tell them you two are together since you were teens - they will either just assume you were each other's onlies OR they won't think about it - either way, i really don't think they will ask.

 

like i said - you can discuss sex with your kids without mentioning your marriage & your sex life and trust me... they sure won't ask you about it. i mean, did you want to know how many people your parents had sex with when you were a teen?

 

 

 

it's really not throwing up a barrier and i think you know that. but you're mad and hurt right now and you probably want to hurt and humiliate the W, too. if you stay together - you should definitely use it as an example of forgiveness and rebuilding trust. if not? it's definitely not up to you to explain anything. if they ask you why did you & the W divorce - either simply tell them that it didn't work out or tell them to ask their mother for further explanations. let her deal with the questions.

 

 

 

i disagree - truth can sometimes do damage much bigger than the lie & i speak from experience.

 

 

 

she cheated on you with her BFF - stop feeling guilty about it. you did the right thing. it was your W who should've offered you to break it off with her BFF in the 1st place. she can make new friends... the ones she won't cheat on you with.

 

i speak from experience - my parents divorced. and when i was older i wanted to know everything about it so i asked. and my mother told me her version of the story without ever mentioning what my father did. she simply said he betrayed her trust and that was it. i went to my dad to ask for further explanations and reasons and i got them.

 

you don't want to be the one who will "trash" their mother in front of them, trust me. it will seriously backfire because she has her own story, remember? you can easily look like the bad guy in that situation which is why i think you should let your W do the talking & you do the talking about how to move on, forgive and handle it.

I'm afraid I can't use my childhood as being representative of anything like normal.

No I didn't ask my parents these questions but that was for quite different reasons. My childhood was damaged by violence, rape & abuse. It's one of the reasons I want to be as open as possible with my kids.

I don't wish to hurt her relationship with our kids, she has hurt me & even if stuff has happened since the kids were born that doesn't mean she loves them any less.

I guess I asked the question because I do believe in truth above everything else(at an appropriate time, i.e. not now!)

For years I have had this romanticised version of how I could tell our kids we had made it through everything, even the tough times without betraying each other. I now have to reevaluate how I tell that story & I guess it's bothering me a bit.

But as I have realised from some of the comments here, if I shield them from it I am protecting them, not her.

I really have no intention of using this to hurt her relationship with the kids as I realise that 1) that's just wrong anyway & 2) that would be damaging to the kids.

 

I will think about the paternity test. I am leaning more towards getting one now than I was when I first posted but I have to be sure I can handle the result & it will not effect my relationship with my daughter before I commit to it.

[beach]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really know the full truth right now, but let's assume it was only these 2 incidents in the space of 1 month. Should I give up on a 20 year relationship because of her actions in the space of 1 month 8 years ago?

 

Yes. Mainly because she's not the woman you thought she was.

 

She's lied and will protect herself.

 

In a healthy marriage there is no room for such selfishness.

 

You have no idea if she's done this more than what she admits to now.

 

 

So really - she's made the M a farce from the beginning - especially since you've made so many assumptions about you being her only one.

 

 

And then you have another child? Why? Get a paternity test in both kids = she cheats and lies.

 

 

Who are you REALLY married to? Answer that question.

[No Limit]

Should I give up on a 20 year relationship because of her actions in the space of 1 month 8 years ago?

 

Thing is that once people start, they don't stop most of the time, only get better at hiding what they're up to. Do you want to spend your next 20 years fearing that whenever you are intimate with her you might catch a STD?

[FallenA]

Yes. Mainly because she's not the woman you thought she was.

 

She's lied and will protect herself.

 

In a healthy marriage there is no room for such selfishness.

 

You have no idea if she's done this more than what she admits to now.

 

 

So really - she's made the M a farce from the beginning - especially since you've made so many assumptions about you being her only one.

 

 

And then you have another child? Why? Get a paternity test in both kids = she cheats and lies.

 

 

Who are you REALLY married to? Answer that question.

 

Because I believed she was raped that's why. What your wife is raped & you should disown her? I don't think like that. It wasn't until after the second was born that I began to doubt the story.

 

It's absolutely impossible that the second kid is not mine. Seriously if you saw him & me the only way he wouldn't be mine is if she slept with the twin I don't have. Seriously, you would not believe the resemblance.

This is also why I'm 99.9% sure with my daughter, I have an "unusual" look, & both kids really do look like me.

[FallenA]

Thing is that once people start, they don't stop most of the time, only get better at hiding what they're up to. Do you want to spend your next 20 years fearing that whenever you are intimate with her you might catch a STD?

No I don't, but what if she is telling the truth? What if these things happened as she says & that's it?

I know it was a big ask for both of us to only have each other, indeed in my early 20s I nearly slipped too, nearly.

I could forgive these incidents if I could be sure there's nothing else.

Of course I have told her if there's anything else then tell me & I won't immediately leave because of it. That's actually a lie but I'm hoping that IC will enable her to tell me the full truth in the false knowledge that anything further will not immediately end the relationship.

If there's any more she is gone but I have not said that as I want the truth before I make my decision.

Even if there is no more I fully reserve the right to end this marriage the moment I feel I cannot live with what I already know.

Edited March 1, 2015 by FallenA
spelling errors

[road]

Do these actually work? Everything I have read has said they don't. If I thought they did she would have done one by now.

I mean they can't be used in court so how reliable are they?

 

 

 

You are not going to court. You are seeking the truth.

 

 

What happens when the WW is told about the test appointment quite often they give up some more truth claiming you now know all so cancel the test.

 

 

Do not fall that trap. Great the test will now confirm I got the whole truth. Then there is the confession on the car ride to the test. Or in the parking lot by the WW as well.

 

 

You are not having a trial going for a conviction. Your quest is for the truth.

[FallenA]

I've just reread my last post & I have a question.

Should I be lying? It doesn't feel right. Yes, she has lied & betrayed me & I am now lying to her telling her anything else will not immediately end things, when in reality it will.

Does the end justify the means?

I know other have said different but in my life I have only ever seen lies cause damage & destruction.

[FallenA]

You are not going to court. You are seeking the truth.

 

 

What happens when the WW is told about the test appointment quite often they give up some more truth claiming you now know all so cancel the test.

 

 

Do not fall that trap. Great the test will now confirm I got the whole truth. Then there is the confession on the car ride to the test. Or in the parking lot by the WW as well.

 

 

You are not having a trial going for a conviction. Your quest is for the truth.

This is an exceptionally good point, thank you. I will book one on Monday.

 

It doesn't matter if they work, only that she believes they do & I think I could convince her of that.

 

Bet she takes it & passes & I learn nothing else. Is that wishful thinking, I wonder? But my gut has been satisfied so we will see.

 

Edit to add, there's also my James Bond tactics that I am still using. If she looks up how to beat a lie detector then I know we are finished.

Edited March 1, 2015 by FallenA

[DatingDirection]

"Who did you think you married'. After he loses all his money, she wants a divorce. In your case, "Who did you think you married." All signs were there, you were just too in love to notice. Or, you simply didn't care what type of person she was, just as long as she looked great beside you.

[FallenA]

"Who did you think you married'. After he loses all his money, she wants a divorce. In your case, "Who did you think you married." All signs were there, you were just too in love to notice. Or, you simply didn't care what type of person she was, just as long as she looked great beside you.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

 

Edit to add: did you actually read any of my posts. I had no idea of anything until after we were married so I'm not sure your Wolf Of Wall Street references are relevant, are you?

Edited March 1, 2015 by FallenA

[DatingDirection]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

 

Edit to add: did you actually read any of my posts. I had no idea of anything until after we were married so I'm not sure your Wolf Of Wall Street references are relevant, are you?

 

 

 

it's a very long thread, but i read the first post you wrote. I'm sorry if it isn't relavent. it's just questioning how all the sudden she is this very different person, and there were no signs, that her loyalty to you, and her promiscuity, was all hidden for so many years. i mean, yes, that is a separate issue altogether, she is to blame definitely, she lied to you, and just all of a sudden became a different person. but what im saying is that there had to be warning signs, early on.

[FallenA]

it's a very long thread, but i read the first post you wrote. I'm sorry if it isn't relavent. it's just questioning how all the sudden she is this very different person, and there were no signs, that her loyalty to you, and her promiscuity, was all hidden for so many years. i mean, yes, that is a separate issue altogether, she is to blame definitely, she lied to you, and just all of a sudden became a different person. but what im saying is that there had to be warning signs, early on.

If there were any warning signs I did not see them until 2 days before our daughter was born almost a year after we were married & even then I did not think it was as bad as it was.

Look, I have to own repressing that feeling that something was wrong with the story but I was always convinced that it wasn't as bad as it was I guess.

There's also the fact that we were together 12 years before we were married. We didn't just jump into it, before we were married I was completely clueless about any possibility of infidelity. There were no signs but then this wasn't any kind of prolonged affair so what signs are there to see. She was out with her workmates just as I went out with mine.

If you come home & act if everything's OK then what exactly should I have seen?

[FallenA]

I just want to address something to those people who say I should run immediately.

As I alluded to, I had a very troubled childhood to say the least. I was 17 when I met my wife & I WAS on a path of self destruction. She worked with me for years to bring me out of that & always waited patiently no matter how much of a c**t I was to her. She saw the good in me that others didn't. I didn't cheat but other than that I used every trait I learned from my father to be the worst person possible.

She always stood by me no matter how bad I was.

Now, she is the one who has made the mistakes, I feel I owe it to her to give her a chance. It may not work & she may be making a fool of me but instead of the successful man I am now, without her I truly believe I would have died in my early twenties like quite a few of my teenage friends.

Not everything is black & white, sometimes there is grey. If she had of posted on a forum such as this when she was 20 & I 21 everyone would say run, he will never change, but I did.

Even if it doesn't work out & she hurts me again, she already earned her second chance long before she betrayed me. She really did save my life.