Sarabi Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Successful for who? The woman I guess? LOL No idea...I suppose they meant a relationship where the couple had been together a while... Perhaps you are right though and they did mean success for the woman. I do remember reading some quote or something about a woman's success in life being defined by her relationships and number of children (note: the quality of relationships and/or children was of little consequence). Link to post Share on other sites
Sarabi Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Yes, but they do not have the advantage of a degree, so if you didn't have a degree then do you work at the low end, soul destroying job for ever or do you opt out have kids and stay on benefits? Many do not have the intelligence or the education or the money to get themselves out of that hole and once in it, there are few ways of getting out. It is easy for any person to criticise when they have options, try removing those options and then where does it take them? They might not have the advantage of a degree but I thought that the majority of jobs essentially do not require a degree anyway? I understand that they may have few options and think without a degree they cannot get a better paying type of work but...if children are going to come into the equation, I think they should grow up and consider the bigger picture. They have a choice whether or not to have those kids whilst struggling to look after themselves... Currently we have a co worker who has just had his fourth child. He works 32hrs a week. The wife does not work(benefits etc.). He is 27/28. He told another colleague its good to have kids so you can leave them a legacy... His legacy? Former prison inmate, found God(as they do ), found a lazy woman who had already had a kid with someone else, got married and made three more which we all KNOW they cannot afford (constant whining about money, borrowing money from colleagues and even our manager lol etc.) However. At some point he and the woman were studying something of some sort and he had hoped to develop a career in that. I am not so sure he will. He refused a promotion (more money means less benefits...) He never works ANY overtime Anyway, that was random and slightly off topic but he(and her) have the option to improve themselves and choose not to. If he worked his way up to management, he could earn very good money because they are opening a flood of stores. If one or both of them had returned to studying before having the last two or three kids, whilst juggling it with work, I suppose they could have had a slightly better income. I think they just chose not to...maybe that goes back to what you said about having the intelligence to get out of the hole. Link to post Share on other sites
Sarabi Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Exactly. Nobody needs 'rescuing' in this day and age - and if you do, then you're not dating material. People should be able to stand on their own feet before they consider treading on anybody else's toes. Once I discovered the term 'hypergamy' it was then that it all fell into place and I realised that as an average guy with an average income I'd never be good enough for the demands of most women these days. Hell, I've got a 6-pack in my 40s and I even have obese people openly rejecting me for my physical appearance on dating sites.nNot that I have anything against people's weight, but it's a hell of a double standard! Now I just do my own thing, get in shape, see friends, play my guitars, go to gigs etc. If women want to look down their nose at me for not having a 'prestigious' job, then it's 'see ya, wouldn't want to be ya.' Get onto Sandman's videos as well, he has new material all the time. I agree with you that people should not need rescuing. As for the obese or other women who think your work is not prestigious...that is up to them to have reasonable expectations for partners and relationships, not you. You don't need people like that anyway; no one is perfect in this life and you hardly need someone who will be picking on your flaws and moaning all the time. Move on to someone who appreciates and embraces everything about you...there are teens and 20somethings who are in far worse shape (physically) than you. You are sounding more positive these days go you!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I suppose my point is, why don't people just date the like minded? Someone who is your paygrade? I'm somewhere in the middle and date men who are somewhere in the middle. A couple of rungs up or down the ladder. Never had a super rich boyfriend/partner and never went out with anyone that had no ambitions either. Surely the way is sticking with your own kind? Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I suppose my point is, why don't people just date the like minded? Someone who is your paygrade? I'm somewhere in the middle and date men who are somewhere in the middle. A couple of rungs up or down the ladder. Never had a super rich boyfriend/partner and never went out with anyone that had no ambitions either. Surely the way is sticking with your own kind? The problem here is that the OP is a professional woman stuck in low pay P/T employment, due mainly to the recession. Her "own kind" are in a much higher pay bracket. Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The problem here is that the OP is a professional woman stuck in low pay P/T employment, due mainly to the recession. Not really. OP is waiting for a full time job that will give her freedom to manage her schedule. Freedom of schedule is the key word here. She prefers 4 part-time jobs to a full time job 9-5 who won't allow her to devote time to her family and such. So is it really a matter of recession? or a matter of life style? Yes there was a recession, yes it was hard to find a job any job, so what do you think are the chances in a recession to find a job that will give her freedom to manage her own schedule? She needs to aim at men with the same mind set as her no matter their earning or profession. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Auspecial Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 The problem here is that the OP is a professional woman stuck in low pay P/T employment, due mainly to the recession. Her "own kind" are in a much higher pay bracket. Well.....its not exactly that my own kind are in a much higher bracket.....I don't always date men who are in a higher bracket, I have been all over the board, and tend to date the person for who they are aside from any income. "For me," its how the two of us connect on other multiple levels, not related at all to income bracket, because this is transitory. The OP was more about it seeming that my present income bracket is unappealing "to them". I am working on this within myself, because although I have enjoyed this whole lively discussion, I do think I worry about it too much. Recently, I climbed another rung on my journey, and was so happy with myself until I once again realized that for some, its still not enough. That's what caused me to post the Original Post. And then I remembered, even "back in the day," when I was making good paycheck in a prestigious job, there were some people who judged me in different ways. This thread has been very helpful to me, as a reality check and re-group of myself, and I really appreciate all the feedback. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Erised Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I suppose my point is, why don't people just date the like minded? Someone who is your paygrade? I'm somewhere in the middle and date men who are somewhere in the middle. A couple of rungs up or down the ladder. Never had a super rich boyfriend/partner and never went out with anyone that had no ambitions either. Surely the way is sticking with your own kind? "Own kind"?!? A person's job does not define the kind of person a person is or the interpersonal interaction. I've dated across income brackets. i pay attention to one's intellect, humor, character, kindness... Etc. My last serious boyfriend was extremely wealthy. My ex husband is less so but still very, very comfortable. One of the current guys I'm considering is just a non-tenure professor and brings less money in a year in than I do from all sources. None of these things had a bit to do with who they are as a person or how we were together or how enjoyable a life together would be. (Stuff does not make life better. It's a distraction from the important things in life.). "Own kind". I think I just vomited in my mouth a little. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Auspecial Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Not really. OP is waiting for a full time job that will give her freedom to manage her schedule. Freedom of schedule is the key word here. She prefers 4 part-time jobs to a full time job 9-5 who won't allow her to devote time to her family and such. So is it really a matter of recession? or a matter of life style? Yes there was a recession, yes it was hard to find a job any job, so what do you think are the chances in a recession to find a job that will give her freedom to manage her own schedule? She needs to aim at men with the same mind set as her no matter their earning or profession. Very nicely and succinctly put, thanks. Hmmm, now where is the dating site called: "Away From Mainstream Life Crafters"?" Link to post Share on other sites
Author Auspecial Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 "Own kind". I think I just vomited in my mouth a little. I don't think she meant that in a bad way, just being supportive and reminding that I have had a different life. Although, as another poster said, I am who I am today. However, my past is still inside of me too. I can't just pretend none of that ever happened. But I agree, I have always liked who I like simply because I like them. Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Very nicely and succinctly put, thanks. Hmmm, now where is the dating site called: "Away From Mainstream Life Crafters"?" I am sure there is one lol ! There is a site for everything under the sun! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 This may play into the general milieu I outlined in another post on double-standards: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/517423-there-double-standard-terms-man-s-salary-woman-s-salary-dating-2.html#post6184620 Particularly where any discriminatory words or actions offend the sensibilities of others. I heard such words and experienced such actions a lot when a younger man and had to grow a thick skin to deal with them. Perhaps, as time goes by and perspectives have changed, men are becoming less accommodating and more discriminatory and are offending more sensibilities, like those of the OP. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 How about a site for "free spirits"? Or if not, just describing yourself as one on your profile? I am somewhat of a free spirit myself (since this is your thread I won't get into why)...and men seem intrigued by that..even turned on by it! Certainly never stopped any of them from wanting to pursue me, including my current. Anyhoo, if you admit to being a free spirit, the men who write/respond to you shouldn't be too surprised upon finding out you have four jobs that you enjoy, rather than one job, that you may or may not even like. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 "Own kind"?!? A person's job does not define the kind of person a person is or the interpersonal interaction. I've dated across income brackets. i pay attention to one's intellect, humor, character, kindness... Etc. My last serious boyfriend was extremely wealthy. My ex husband is less so but still very, very comfortable. One of the current guys I'm considering is just a non-tenure professor and brings less money in a year in than I do from all sources. None of these things had a bit to do with who they are as a person or how we were together or how enjoyable a life together would be. (Stuff does not make life better. It's a distraction from the important things in life.). "Own kind". I think I just vomited in my mouth a little. OK but your "own kind" is obviously "extremely wealthy", "very very comfortable" or a professor...!!!!??? You may date across income brackets but it seems there are no pizza delivery guys in there... We all have our "own kind", stop vomiting. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Auspecial Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 This may play into the general milieu I outlined in another post on double-standards: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/517423-there-double-standard-terms-man-s-salary-woman-s-salary-dating-2.html#post6184620 Particularly where any discriminatory words or actions offend the sensibilities of others. I heard such words and experienced such actions a lot when a younger man and had to grow a thick skin to deal with them. Perhaps, as time goes by and perspectives have changed, men are becoming less accommodating and more discriminatory and are offending more sensibilities, like those of the OP. I understand the relationship, as both are posts about income and dating. Except, I think you are describing a true double standard, where the women absolutely refuses to date a man unless he makes a certain amount of money. My OP is more about being labeled as not good enough although still being pursued by the same people who don't fully respect you. I have zero expectation of income, but I have a strong expectation of basic respect. Re: double standards that you are mentioning, I think they still exist, but are nowhere near what they were in the past. These days, I think its just a few "individual" women who do this, not the vast majority of women who are seeking a decent partner. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Auspecial Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 How about a site for "free spirits"? Or if not, just describing yourself as one on your profile? I am somewhat of a free spirit myself (since this is your thread I won't get into why)...and men seem intrigued by that..even turned on by it! Certainly never stopped any of them from wanting to pursue me, including my current. Anyhoo, if you admit to being a free spirit, the men who write/respond to you shouldn't be too surprised upon finding out you have four jobs that you enjoy, rather than one job, that you may or may not even like. Katiegrl to the rescue!! Thank You! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Auspecial Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Katiegrl to the rescue!! Thank You! And, your Dating Site name sounds much better than mine! Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Katiegrl to the rescue!! Thank You! Wow, after nine pages, who would've thought? You're very welcome! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Auspecial Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Wow, after nine pages, who would've thought? You're very welcome! One never knows, does one? ) Link to post Share on other sites
Macattack Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Well.....its not exactly that my own kind are in a much higher bracket.....I don't always date men who are in a higher bracket, I have been all over the board, and tend to date the person for who they are aside from any income. "For me," its how the two of us connect on other multiple levels, not related at all to income bracket, because this is transitory. The OP was more about it seeming that my present income bracket is unappealing "to them". I am working on this within myself, because although I have enjoyed this whole lively discussion, I do think I worry about it too much. Recently, I climbed another rung on my journey, and was so happy with myself until I once again realized that for some, its still not enough. That's what caused me to post the Original Post. And then I remembered, even "back in the day," when I was making good paycheck in a prestigious job, there were some people who judged me in different ways. This thread has been very helpful to me, as a reality check and re-group of myself, and I really appreciate all the feedback. Those men aren't being shallow considering men expect women to take care of themselves. They aren't expecting you to wine and dine them. You mentioned a guy is divorced, it is likely he's paying child support or alimony. He shouldn't have to take care of another woman. Sounds like to me you want a man to help you financially, perhaps you would be fine dating someone who makes closer to your income. You shouldn't call men shallow when they expect the same standards women do. Are you a gold digger? I don't know but it sure seems like it. Edited March 1, 2015 by Macattack Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Those men aren't being shallow considering men expect women to take care of themselves. They aren't expecting you to wine and dine them. You mentioned a guy is divorced, it is likely he's paying child support or alimony. He shouldn't have to take care of another woman. Sounds like to me you want a man to help you financially, perhaps you would be fine dating someone who makes closer to your income. You shouldn't call men shallow when they expect the same standards women do. Are you a gold digger? I don't know but it sure seems like it. No she's not a golddigger... she's a free spirit! And the right guy will LOVE that about her! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Macattack Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 No she's not a golddigger... she's a free spirit! And the right guy will LOVE that about her! She is the type of women a lot of men in my city avoid like the plague. Just saying. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 She is the type of women a lot of men in my city avoid like the plague. Just saying. Careful now, your bitterness is showing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I suppose my point is, why don't people just date the like minded? Someone who is your paygrade? I'm somewhere in the middle and date men who are somewhere in the middle. A couple of rungs up or down the ladder. Never had a super rich boyfriend/partner and never went out with anyone that had no ambitions either. Surely the way is sticking with your own kind? Yin/yang can work, too. Some people are actually prefer a complement, rather than a mirror. People bring different strengths to the relationship. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 She is the type of women a lot of men in my city avoid like the plague. Just saying. Not to brag .... but I am somewhat of a free spirit and not only do men NOT avoid me...they gravitate towards me like a bee to honey! I think you are misunderstanding/misinterpreting her posts... what they mean and what SHE's about...what she wants and stands for. You also do sound a bit bitter as elaine mentioned... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts