Dating outside your paygrade

[Auspecial]

 

As long as the woman is self sufficient, I don't care what she makes.

 

 

 

Thanks!!

[Auspecial]

Aren't the above guys just stating how you already feel? You are looking daily for a full time job.. One guy said what you do is ok for now, and the other guy said you would be better off with a full time job..

 

What is the issue? What do you want them to say when it comes to your job situation? you are getting dates and seeing guys regardless of your job situation. many guys would not be so lucky if the situation was reversed.

 

 

 

It seems you may have latched onto one statement I said about daily looking for full-time. Although it's true, I am also happy in my life. Why shouldn't I be??? I make my own way, have no assistance, roof over my head, food, my child is safe healthy happy and successful. etc etc etc etc etc. I have so many things to be happy about! Does my happiness disturb you?? I make a daily choice to be happy despite anything else that's going on. Its not always easy.

 

 

Does it disturb you, that I deliberately strive to be happy??

 

 

What disturbs me is, I get dates but they judge me from the start regarding my work, but they still pursue me and act like they like me. I wish they would not pursue me at all, knowing that they don't respect me to start with.

 

 

My other problem is, I am self-critical already.

 

 

I would like for them to say, "that's great that you have work that you like! Lets go dance!"

[Macattack]

It could mean some men are shallow but it could also mean they aren't. I live in a city where there's women only wanting to date up or at their level in income. These women want to be wined and dined and expect to be treated well. However if a guy lost his job she would be gone in a jiffy.

 

There is a guy told me a story of a singles event in my city, not one single male showed up for the event other than the person who coordinated the event. He called his friends and ask them to come and they refused.

 

Do these guys know you have a child? Some men don't date single moms.

[clevelander321]

It seems you may have latched onto one statement I said about daily looking for full-time. Although it's true, I am also happy in my life. Why shouldn't I be??? I make my own way, have no assistance, roof over my head, food, my child is safe healthy happy and successful. etc etc etc etc etc. I have so many things to be happy about! Does my happiness disturb you?? I make a daily choice to be happy despite anything else that's going on. Its not always easy.

 

 

Does it disturb you, that I deliberately strive to be happy??

 

 

What disturbs me is, I get dates but they judge me from the start regarding my work, but they still pursue me and act like they like me. I wish they would not pursue me at all, knowing that they don't respect me to start with.

 

 

My other problem is, I am self-critical already.

 

 

I would like for them to say, "that's great that you have work that you like! Lets go dance!"

 

I guess being a guy I am used to this.. Many women ask immediately "What do you do for work", and that seems to be the most important issue.

 

I never really cared what a woman does for work, or if she works at all. I would almost rather date an unemployed woman with simple needs, than a career woman with 100k in school debt and another 75 k in credit card debt who never has time to do anything because she is always working.

 

If you truly are happy with 4 part time jobs then you should be confident and happy about it. Not every guy you date has to think it is great to have 4 part time jobs, and that is only a small part of dating. I certainly know I can't date high achieving females and have them all completely look past my career or ability to provide if I have several part time jobs.. Nor would I expect them to.. I would just date down and find a woman at my level.

 

For example when I was young and bagged groceries, I would have been happy to date a cashier.. I wasnt thinking I should be dating a cardiologist. I dont get the impression you would want to date a guy that worked part time though..

 

What if you met a guy who was about 45.. He works at Walmart for 20 hours a week, babysits every other weekend, and cuts his neghbors grass.. but he is happy. Would you date him? Could you see why many women would not? Does he have the right to think everyone must accept his career and look past it?

Edited February 27, 2015 by clevelander321

[Erised]

I have not been judged or looked down upon or passed over for relationships ever because of not having a more professional or high paying job. Most men I've been with have been high earning; all have been professional.

 

This is crazy to me.

[NJ123]

I have not been judged or looked down upon or passed over for relationships ever because of not having a more professional or high paying job. Most men I've been with have been high earning; all have been professional.

 

This is crazy to me.

 

How about women not caring if a guy has a high paying job or not?

[Phoe]

How about women not caring if a guy has a high paying job or not?

 

When a woman doesn't care about a man's job she gets told she has low self esteem and that she needs to have higher standards.

 

*shrug*

[NJ123]

When a woman doesn't care about a man's job she gets told she has low self esteem and that she needs to have higher standards.

 

*shrug*

 

I don't get that at all. Why would she be told she has low self esteem?

[MissBee]

I have been a very hard working professional woman for many years, but lost my career in 2008. I am healthy and happy in general, but have been struggling financially ever since. I am in the bracket of people who are "forced part-time" because we want full-time work but have not been able to get it. I am still very hard working. I currently have four part-time jobs. But they are not professional jobs. I can't afford to go back to college and get another degree, and I can't use the one I had for many years. I still submit resumes and applications on a daily basis.

 

 

I am finding that soooo many men look down on what I do for a living. I don't have a problem with them being attracted to me physically, but sooner or later, they let me know in one way or another that they don't consider me to be "serious" material, because I don't have a professional job.

 

 

The last guy kept making comments like what (I) do for a living "is ok for now......" (while I have been and am kicking butt to get what I have already) and "yes I just got divorced and look what I ended up with". Incidentally, his ex wife never worked in their 25 year marriage.) At a party recently, every time a friend of his would ask about my job, he would leave the room, embarrassed (I am guessing) about my response. That guy was a real estate manager, with a four year degree. Another guy I wasn't really interested in, kept emailing me and finally exasperatedly told me "you can't be that busy working these little marketer, bartender, server, catering jobs." That guy was an electrical engineer. Another recent guy, a plumbers assistant, condescendingly told me that I would do better with one full-time job. REALLY?!!! I have been trying to do that for six years. I mention their careers because its not like they are making huge amounts of money.

 

 

Yes, of course I would love to be making more money. But in reality, I am content with my life and I have actually come a long way from the crash in 2008. I work very hard and I also enjoy my work.

 

 

Is it really so hard to find quality men who are not shallow? And able to see value in character of a person, not just material things or titles. It seems to be getting worse and worse.

 

 

Please no gold-digger comments. I realize there are some shallow women out there, but I am not one of them, and I am talking about my recent experiences with men, because that's who I am dating.

 

 

I don't think it's about making a certain amount of money or your pay from any of what you said, but them focusing on how ambitious they think you are.

 

I've said before that a job is different from a career. A job tends to be what folks do to pay the bills while a career often requires a bigger investment of time and usually is a huge part of who that person is.

 

I do think being career-minded is a different type of mentality than being job-minded. It's not about how much you're making or that anything is wrong if you have part time jobs or can't get work, those are all understandable, but it seems based on what these guys say and as, that they are curious about if you have bigger ambitions. You can for example, be a waitress currently because that's what you can get but also hope in the next 3-5 years to be working as a nurse for example, or actress, or some other more long term plan that speaks to your desires and talents as a person. It seems to be more about that, which is legit.

 

I don't need a man to make a certain amount of money but I am in grad school getting a PhD and will have a professional career that is very much part of who I am as a person, not just a job I punch in and out from, and would need to be with a man who also has a career that is part of who he is and who will understand my ambitions because he has similar ones. I simply don't think for me I would make a good match for a man who was fine say working at TMobile full time for as long as they will have him. NOTHING at all is inherently wrong with that, it's like all other things in dating, a lifestyle preference and whether or not that person's world fits with yours.

 

Some men may not care at all about a woman having a career or being a professional, but for those who do, it's not a negative thing, and it just simply means they aren't for you.

[Phoe]

I don't get that at all. Why would she be told she has low self esteem?

 

That's a question best posed for others, I don't quite have a good answer.

 

I'm the woman who has never cared about a man's job and have been given a hard time over it, told I have low esteem, low self worth, have lousy standards, etc.

 

I just have not yet come up with any reason to be concerned with someone else's pay grade. It's just none of my business.

[NJ123]

That's a question best posed for others, I don't quite have a good answer.

 

I'm the woman who has never cared about a man's job and have been given a hard time over it, told I have low esteem, low self worth, have lousy standards, etc.

 

I just have not yet come up with any reason to be concerned with someone else's pay grade. It's just none of my business.

 

True, maybe in terms of wanting to start a family a lot of women want the man to make good money. But women are making more & more money today than in the past, so I don't know anymore.

[MissBee]

*I didn't read your post carefully so I tried to edit to add that I saw you used to work professionally. I think there are men who will understand this and will focus on the package and your capabilities versus your current station. But it depends on where they are in life and what they want from a partner. A man say who has never been married and is looking for his next relationship to lead to that and to have kids might feel his better bet is to be with a woman in a different position. It's not a negative on you, just making a pragmatic choice. But I do think for the right man these things will not be an issue.

[Macattack]

That's a question best posed for others, I don't quite have a good answer.

 

I'm the woman who has never cared about a man's job and have been given a hard time over it, told I have low esteem, low self worth, have lousy standards, etc.

 

I just have not yet come up with any reason to be concerned with someone else's pay grade. It's just none of my business.

 

More likely that comes from women, if there's any truth behind it.

[clevelander321]

I never met anyone with 4 jobs. Are some of these MLM jobs? Even a waitress usually has a few shifts which would not leave much time for more. I guess it depends what types of jobs these are..

[sagamore]

If I met you, heard your story and was considering dating you, these are the things I'd want to know:

 

1. You used to have a very successful, full-time career, one you loved. What did you do to lose it?

 

2. Might the reason you lost it be a problem that also manifests in relationships?

 

3. Why have you been unable (or unwilling) to fine full-time employment since then?

 

4. Might the reason you are unable (or unwilling) to find full-time employment be a problem that also manifests in relationships?

[Erised]

How about women not caring if a guy has a high paying job or not?

 

Well, I don't care.

I have simple needs and I can provide them. If we're together we can work as a team.

 

I do care if a guy makes extravagant purchases when he has no money. Not even if it's has to take debt because of circumstances but trips he can't afford, flashy car, tv, etc.

 

Assuming he doesn't take not having a lot as a self esteem hit that's going to come out on me. Ran into THAT recently (why I came here!) and don't want to see that again.

 

But, I'm not a man - I'm a woman. I only have experience on what men judge me on, and in my experience, that has NEVER been an issue at all.

 

Some have talked up that I'm happy with simplicity as a plus, some have expressed surprise that I don't have a more traditional job with my intellect being so high, but it has never been a hurdle in the slightest. I've never gotten the impression guys care so much about such things.

[Macattack]

True, maybe in terms of wanting to start a family a lot of women want the man to make good money. But women are making more & more money today than in the past, so I don't know anymore.

 

Don't even start talking about marriage, if a woman wanted marriage I'll run so fast. LOL Marriage isn't worth it anymore.

[NJ123]

Well, I don't care.

I have simple needs and I can provide them. If we're together we can work as a team.

 

I do care if a guy makes extravagant purchases when he has no money. Not even if it's has to take debt because of circumstances but trips he can't afford, flashy car, tv, etc.

 

Assuming he doesn't take not having a lot as a self esteem hit that's going to come out on me. Ran into THAT recently (why I came here!) and don't want to see that again.

 

But, I'm not a man - I'm a woman. I only have experience on what men judge me on, and in my experience, that has NEVER been an issue at all.

 

Some have talked up that I'm happy with simplicity as a plus, some have expressed surprise that I don't have a more traditional job with my intellect being so high, but it has never been a hurdle in the slightest. I've never gotten the impression guys care so much about such things.

 

But aren't you kinda contradicting yourself. You say you don't care yet almost every guy you been with has made a lot of money. So it sounds like you do care.

[NJ123]

Don't even start talking about marriage, if a woman wanted marriage I'll run so fast. LOL Marriage isn't worth it anymore.

 

lol well that depends on a lot of things. You just have to be 110% sure that the woman you're with is the right person to marry.

[Omei]

OP I think anyone who would look down upon you for working four jobs to keep afloat should go to hell.

 

How dare they make those comments.

 

You lost your career no matter the reason instead of sulking around you strived really hard to fill in the gaps even tho it took four different jobs how many people can do that? Not many thats travel time to different locations, dealing with different co workers and employers on a weekly basis I do not think this is something that should be overlooked at all! It must be hard as heck who cares what type of jobs they are you're doing your best. And you're lucky to have those four jobs too! When I got laid off and im a single mother it took me NINE months just to find one part time job who would only give me 12 hours a week!!! And I looked everyday! Everywhere ! Eventually I found a weekly job with better hours but I had to fight so hard for it, there's always someone with more experience than you trying to get it.

 

If a guy cant realize this about you then he doesnt deserve you, many people struggle its how you deal with it that counts, one day they will struggle too and hopefully they will change their way of thinking.

 

I do not think you expect a man to support you at all with that level of effort.

 

Many people go through life having a regular job not a professional career and they're very happy where they work and with their life.

 

Working four jobs isnt something I could ever do.

 

I didn't read on passed the first page of this forum so I didnt follow the entire thread its gotten too long but thats how I feel about your opening post.

 

Maybe its cuz im 28 I dont see the problem, I know/met so many people around my age or older that still live at home and have barely worked a day of their lives.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Omei

[Dybbuk]

OP, I couldn't get through all 8 pages but basically how I feel it boils down...

 

You'll basically only have two outcomes as you continue dating, and it seems in your experience one is more common than the other.

 

1. The first group is going to judge you. No matter if you love your life, and you're making it with your 4 part time jobs. For whatever reason, what you are doing with your life is not acceptable to them. Some people might consider that shallow, but sometimes those guys feel this way for good reason. We all know of the 'gold digger' stereotype and many men make a proactive choice to weed out women who they may feel might be a financial burden in the future. I've known gold diggers, I know women who refuse to work even when their husbands can't. It's a toxic and very unfortunate situation to find yourself in. Now am I saying that is that a fair judgement on you? No! However, it is the reality you are faced with. You just have to accept you are not compatible with those individuals and possess a quality that is a dealbreaker to some. Now I don't condone the way those guys let you know they were not ecstatic about your employment status... but in the end they have a right to choose, and I can understand why someone would be wary of someone who seems to have a precarious income.

 

2. The latter group will not judge you based on your income. For some men/women the amount of money you bring is of no concern as long as you can support yourself. I'm a big advocate that in healthy relationships each person takes care of themselves vs. becoming dependent on their mate. These guys do exist btw! Just takes some looking, and keep being happy with your life. Someday someone will recognize that you have yourself together, you're educated, and you're making it... and that will be enough.

 

JUST FYI. I am of the personal opinion that women seem to be the more critical group when it comes to income, since men are often viewed as the 'providers'... I say that because I personally make way more than my BF (about double), so there is hope that people really do overlook this. I don't care what he makes, he has his own place and can take care of himself. I've never had to lend him cash or feel like I had to pay for everything. He budgets his money and makes it work. I appreciate that, and have never thought that I was 'dating down' my paygrade. What I look for in a mate is respect, attraction, love and loyalty... $$$ as you well know can change unexpectedly, and I need to know that my relationships are based on more than superficial qualities such as income.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Dybbuk

[Leigh 87]

I never encounter this problem.

 

I am a podiatry student full time at college.

 

I work in a podiatry style shoe store part time.

 

I date professional and accomplished men. I also date blue collar men.

 

I don't put a limit as to who I do or do not date solely based on their professional back ground; no man has flinched at the fact I'm " only " a 28 year old podiatry student who works in a specially shoe store part time.

 

They all know I'll be on a decent income in three years and that I've chosen a career that pays well and has ample progression AND also gets new grads jobs very easily.

 

No man seems to think " oh dear, Leigh 87 no longer has a full time job, she is surely going to be some sort of money draining hazard that should best be avoided "

 

I have no idea where the OP is meeting these men.

 

I have seriously never had a guy dump me or lose interest in me based on the fact I'm a mere student who only opts to work part time in a related field to my degree.

[PinkCarnations]

Oh yeah I've been there. I dated someone who thought I wasn't good enough because I was going back to grad school instead of entering the corporate world. Secretly I knew he was comparing me to his ex who was a young successful professional at a multinational company. To him, I was just some fresh face college grad who didn't know what to do with her life. Little did he know, I am now about to be done with grad school and received a job offer 1 year before I graduated at a prestigious firm, living in a big city, and will be making much more than him. Haaa I sure showed him and you will show these guys that rejected you as well. Use it as motivation to kick ass at life!!

[Emilia]

Therein lies part of my problem. I have trouble accepting that my value isn't evident. In light of the many many people who are not trying to better themselves, or just plain lazy, or living off the government or disability.

 

For me, my 3-4 jobs are fun and pay the bills. I have plenty of time for a rich social life. I have flexibility to help my family almost every time something is needed. Why is this less appealing than a user, or even someone who has a regular 9-5, maybe a little nicer car than me, has every weekend off (I work two weekends a month, its not the end of the world.) but can't help their family when needed? Indeed, if I can get a full-time that gives me the flexibility to self-schedule so I can meet my priorities in life, I would love that! I don't think it would change my busy schedule, though. I would still make time for a social life.

A balanced life is very important, I agree. Earning a decent living is hard though. Creating wealth, earning enough money to have a good standard of living is difficult. This is why most people with a career prefer a partner who is like minded because it helps them financially, they get meaningful support during hard times and it's not just an extra mouth to feed.

I admire your ability to so easily accept this apparent role. I guess part of confusion is that they initiate contact and pursue me, all along thinking I am not really good enough for something that's real.

It starts with respect. I don't think many men have a different kind of respect for women than they have for their fellow men. If you are smart, ambitious and assertive, you are much more likely to be treated well than if they think you are just another one that potentially becomes another financial burden long term. Gaining someone's respect comes way before any other consideration.

[Emilia]

Oh yeah I've been there. I dated someone who thought I wasn't good enough because I was going back to grad school instead of entering the corporate world. Secretly I knew he was comparing me to his ex who was a young successful professional at a multinational company. To him, I was just some fresh face college grad who didn't know what to do with her life. Little did he know, I am now about to be done with grad school and received a job offer 1 year before I graduated at a prestigious firm, living in a big city, and will be making much more than him. Haaa I sure showed him and you will show these guys that rejected you as well. Use it as motivation to kick ass at life!!

That guy was a moron though.