The affair, the backstory and the aftermath...

[Grizzly101]

We don't "chat" or post on each other's FB but we have mutual friends that we both post on, so we see each other's stuff. He does not try to make contact with me as a point, not do I to him.

[Spectre]

I think this has to be quite simple no matter what your husband says. The OM needs to be out of your life completely if you want any chance for this to work. No wedding, no anything where there is even a chance he might show up. You are walking down the street and see him you cross that street immediately. You also do not have any contact with him on any type of social media, email, phone, fax, telegraph, morse code, nothing. If tragedy strikes and the OM passes away you don't even get to use a ouija board to send him a message.

 

What your husband says about you not having to do any of that is irrelevant, he obviously can't be trusted to make decisions for you, that ship has long since sailed and been struck by an iceberg and sunken to the bottom of the ocean.

[Grizzly101]

I see your perspective and the more I think about it, you are right. The ouiji board comment was pretty funny, I will admit! I will talk to H about all of this. IDK why he is adamat that I still go.

Edited February 20, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Chi townD]

To be honest with you, if you are adamant with your H about not seeing the OM and or his sister. That you want nothing to do with them at all. That should show him that you are VERY serious about saving your marriage.

 

 

And for you to say that beating this guys ass isn't his style? Well, he was betrayed, and you really don't know how he'll react. Your at a wedding reception and he see's the man that screwed his wife. The one person he didn't want you with, laughing it up with others on the other side of the hall and your husband has a few drinks in him? It could go sideways on you. And even if nothing happens at the reception, you might be in for a very chilly night with your husband. You heard of triggers before? I can't think of any bigger one than being in the same room with the person you slept with.

[road]

105 posts and she still does not get it.

She will talk about it to her BH and try to convince him NC is the way to go.

When she should put her foot down and take charge and tell her BH NC with the OM for the both of them.

She had no problem going against her BH when she took her pants down and laid down for the OM.

[DKT3]

I see your perspective and the more I think about it, you are right. The ouiji board comment was pretty funny, I will admit! I will talk to H about all of this. IDK why he is adamat that I still go.

 

You can't assume you know how he will react. He assumed that you wouldn't betray him.

 

Once infidelity enters a marriage what you thought of your partner before, in terms of their actions and reactions goes out the window. Decisions are now driven by pain and betrayal. I'm not saying it the case, but its possible your husband could be setting the stage for a very public announcement of your affair. Or a very public confrontation. I recall reading a story where the BH had known about his wife's affair for months yet carried on as if nothing was wrong. Then during the holidays with all the extended family there she opened her present from him and it was complete with divorce papers, evidance of her affair (pictures, text and email printouts).

 

In this situation don't assume anything.

[beach]

Not private contact. FB public interaction ie both posting on a group post, interaction there has occurred. H can see that and does not have an issue with that. It is open, no hiding or sneaking.

 

It's ONLY going to be up to you to draw some clear cut boundaries. I'd exit from that "group".

 

Your H clearly isn't going to draw any line but will likely resent you for not doing that to repair your marriage.

 

Seems passive aggressive on his part but that action should be yours to do since he won't specify it for you.

 

Take action to eliminate the OM and his sister from your life if you intend to save your M.

[Spectre]

Okay yeah as someone said you don't seem to be getting it. This is not a discussion really, in terms of your husband. He doesn't have a say in you going completely NC. Even if he says you can, you just say: it's sweet of you to say I can, but I'm still not going to.

 

Yes, even public FB interaction needs to go. I honestly don't know why your H is encouraging you to not go completely NC. I can't even comprehend it. I can comprehend a lot of things, I could even see why he might forgive the cheating, even though I have a hard time understanding it, but I can't comprehend how he'd want you to not go 100% NC. Not after he got all upset over this man. I can't figure out if he is testing you or just doesn't care anymore.

[merrmeade]

It's very simple. IF you want to save your marriage....

1st, NC is just as much for your husband, if not more, as it is for you.

 

IF you want to save your marriage....

2nd, be clear that NOTHING supercedes NC. No other relationship, no event, no family obligation, no friend is more important. That is if you want to keep your marriage. This should be obvious from what's happened each time you've met OM. The marriage cannot survive any contact for the same obvious reason. The marriage won't be half-okay with half-NC.

 

That is, IF you want to save your marriage....

3rd, your husband is making the wrong call by not insisting on NC. Whether he's not in touch with his feelings or he's just being naive, he's wrong to think it's not necessary. He NEEDS for you to take the initiative.

 

That is, IF you want to save your marriage....

4th, write the NC letter (get samples on LS or online) and show it to your H or, better yet, let him mail it.

5th, Tell your friend this is the way it is. Resign as godmother. You'll just have to see her when and where there's not a risk of running into her brother.

 

[it was similar for me. My sister-in-law was the OW. I have surrendered access to the family vacation home and my relationship with my nephews is pretty much over. Small prices.]

[Selfish]

I disagree with a lot that has been said.

 

Strict No contact isn't the a rule that fits everyone. It is a guideline that most people should follow. In our situation my husband was not willing to give up friends because I cheated. So over the years we see and interact on a social level with the OC (social level being all sitting around talking one two or three special occasions. We also have relatives married and have attended weddings and such. My husband believes i will either decide to return to the affair nc be damned or I will continue to remain NC in the sense of no one on one, and obviously no interaction of meaning. It has been a long time.

 

However. I believe keeping interaction non exsistent is important. In group fb events we never like or comment or address anything the other has to say. In public we have never had a conversation. We have never been in private again. We never "talked" or looked for "closure". We really are disinterested strangers at this point. Civil and polite but not friendly. We also have in my previous job had crossed paths on occasion (once or twice a year). Always professional and to the point.

 

What I am saying is this. Let your husband decide how much he can handle. He is a big boy and hopefully learning from his mistakes. If he wants you to go... Then dont feel liek you shouldnt for him. Choose not to if you feel you would choose to resume the A.

[Selfish]

It's very simple. IF you want to save your marriage....

1st, NC is just as much for your husband, if not more, as it is for you.

 

IF you want to save your marriage....

2nd, be clear that NOTHING supercedes NC. No other relationship, no event, no family obligation, no friend is more important. That is if you want to keep your marriage. This should be obvious from what's happened each time you've met OM. The marriage cannot survive any contact for the same obvious reason. The marriage won't be half-okay with half-NC.

 

That is, IF you want to save your marriage....

3rd, your husband is making the wrong call by not insisting on NC. Whether he's not in touch with his feelings or he's just being naive, he's wrong to think it's not necessary. He NEEDS for you to take the initiative.

 

That is, IF you want to save your marriage....

4th, write the NC letter (get samples on LS or online) and show it to your H or, better yet, let him mail it.

5th, Tell your friend this is the way it is. Resign as godmother. You'll just have to see her when and where there's not a risk of running into her brother.

 

[it was similar for me. My sister-in-law was the OW. I have surrendered access to the family vacation home and my relationship with my nephews is pretty much over. Small prices.]

 

This stop is not always necessary. All those things and a person could still cheat. Not all those things if they dont fit the person doesn't mean the marriage will fail. People love to be "this way or the highway". The only person who gets that call is him. None of us know if it will fail if she goes to this wedding. And if it does? Well she obviously wasnt ready to recommit anyways.

 

I personally do not believe in dividing families or friends and creating battle grounds unless absolutely necessary. (Which it is sometimes when the family and friends cause issues)

 

 

Some people can be grown ups about these things.

[lovinDKT3]

Going NC shouldn't be about what your BS is ok with, it should be about the WS doing whatever they can to redeem themselves for the poor decisions they have made.

 

There are things that my BH would be fine with me doing, even supportive. Yet I don't do them out of respect for him and not to call anything into question. One of my best friends has a sayin, if you play in the street, there is alway a chance you will get hit by a car, so why play in the street?

[Selfish]

Going NC shouldn't be about what your BS is ok with, it should be about the WS doing whatever they can to redeem themselves for the poor decisions they have made.

 

There are things that my BH would be fine with me doing, even supportive. Yet I don't do them out of respect for him and not to call anything into question. One of my best friends has a sayin, if you play in the street, there is alway a chance you will get hit by a car, so why play in the street?

 

But her BS has expressed a wish for her to go. My BS would not have taken kindly to me saying "no dear, i cant go to x,yz eith you because xmm will be there.

 

No blanket statement works for every situation. If the op feels she will fal back in her affair should she go. Thats on her then. But going doesnt mean she will nor does it mean their R will fail.

[merrmeade]

And went, she did, and got f--ked.

[Selfish]

And went, she did, and got f--ked.

 

And it was her choice to do so. She made a deliberate mad choice the last time to do so. The first tome her husband told her to and she wanted to.

 

This isn't exactly the usual case.

 

Liek I said if she feels she'll hop into bed with him again then she might choose not to go. But if ahe isn't going because of some arbitrary reconciling rule. Well it is probably pointless. If she wants to cheat again she will. If she doesn't she won't.

[DKT3]

And it was her choice to do so. She made a deliberate mad choice the last time to do so. The first tome her husband told her to and she wanted to.

 

This isn't exactly the usual case.

 

Liek I said if she feels she'll hop into bed with him again then she might choose not to go. But if ahe isn't going because of some arbitrary reconciling rule. Well it is probably pointless. If she wants to cheat again she will. If she doesn't she won't.

 

Explain how the BS can know what's in the WS mind and heart? Arbitary rule?

 

At the end of it all a BS shouldn't have to enforce anything on a WS if their goal is to remain married. A vast majority of marriages that fall apart after infidelity do so because the WS can't break free of the AP, using loop holes like you and OP to maintain some kind of contact. One shouldn't have to ask, you know.

[Selfish]

Explain how the BS can know what's in the WS mind and heart? Arbitary rule?

 

At the end of it all a BS shouldn't have to enforce anything on a WS if their goal is to remain married. A vast majority of marriages that fall apart after infidelity do so because the WS can't break free of the AP, using loop holes like you and OP to maintain some kind of contact. One shouldn't have to ask, you know.

 

But now we are going in circles. He wants her to go. So therefore she shouldn't decided for him what he can handle.

 

Will he be a mess?

 

Maybe and probably. But hopefully he starts learning a little more about himself.

 

If he was against her going to this wedding then I'd say it would be really bad for her to go. But he's not. And your not him and neither is any other BS here.

 

Her not going when he wants her to go is saying "you are the child and I will make descision for you".

 

Its an abritrary rule when one doesn't look at the circumstances. Much like road does.

 

But if she feels herself in danger (not for the sake of her spouse who wants her to go) then I think she should probably stay as well. And tell her spouse she is not going for himself. Deciding what he can or cannot handle is insulting to him (even if it is true)

Edited February 22, 2015 by Selfish

[DKT3]

But now we are going in circles. He wants her to go. So therefore she shouldn't decided for him what he can handle.

 

Will he be a mess?

 

Maybe and probably. But hopefully he starts learning a little more about himself.

 

If he was against her going to this wedding then I'd say it would be really bad for her to go. But he's not. And your not him and neither is any other BS here.

 

You get none of this.

 

Point is, many if not most BS's don't want to or won't dictate what the WS does past Dday. "Hey honey, do you mind if I go to my AP's sisters wedding?" Why would this even be asked? She wants to go, if he says no it comes off as controlling. So he shows outwardly to be strong and confident. "Sure if that's what you want" on the inside he wonders why she would want to go knowing AP will be there.

 

If the wife wanted to rebuild trust why willingly put yourself in a situation that will undoubtedly cause issues and resentment. It shouldn't be the BS asking the WS to make them feel safe and comfortable in the marriage.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Honestly, the BS shouldn't be put in that situation. So it shouldn't be a matter of deciding what's best, because the WS should be doing what's best for the marriage and rebuilding the trust.

Edited February 22, 2015 by DKT3

[Selfish]

You get none of this.

 

Point is, many if not most BS's don't want to or won't dictate what the WS does past Dday. "Hey honey, do you mind if I go to my AP's sisters wedding?" Why would this even be asked? She wants to go, if he says no it comes off as controlling. So he shows outwardly to be strong and confident. "Sure if that's what you want" on the inside he wonders why she would want to go knowing AP will be there.

 

If the wife wanted to rebuild trust why willingly put yourself in a situation that will undoubtedly cause issues and resentment. It shouldn't be the BS asking the WS to make them feel safe and comfortable in the marriage.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Honestly, the BS shouldn't be put in that situation. So it shouldn't be a matter of deciding what's best, because the WS should be doing what's best for the marriage and rebuilding the trust.

It isnt hard to understand. If is others who paint all situations the same and think that if someone disagrees with them they "dont understand".

 

This friend did not know about the affair. She is innocent. She has her in the wedding. There is no reason to cut her off and punish her. The only way the OP should cut her friend off is if a. The husband asked her to ( and before we blab on and on we all know BS are often quite good at expressing their distaste to a relationship. Head to forums dedicated to it. We know a lot of WS are asked to drop friendships even ones that were unconnected. One woman was told to drop some friends because one friend in the group was friends with a friend of the OM (though knew nothing about it)) my point is. Not everyone handles NC the same way. You dont know her husband. This isnt a typical situation, and many people who don't rely on forums have kept social circles and friends together. There is no right or wrong answer to how to do it. Just opinions. And my opinion is they both should go to the wedding if that is what they want. No arbitrary rule to make them feel guilty. And if the friend did not know of or approve the affair she should not be dropped like a hot potato unless it is for the friends sake because the OP would be using her friend to stay in contact.

 

I realize my opinion doesn't fit the kool aid of what is expected. But fortunatly I really don't care. Even if she does go and hook up with him it is on her not me. Because she is a grown adult who hopefully as learned her boundaries by now. I just personally believe friends are important. If their marriage fails it sucks if you have isolated yourself from having friends. (But as I said if he agrees with her when she brought up cutting the friend ofd it would be an entirely different situation but its not. And dont give me he speech about it being her choice. Ive made it clear how insulting it would be if she dicated to him what he could or could not handle. That should be for herself. Ie "i do not think I want to/ can continue the relationship with my friend/go to the wedding."

 

A note for people adding to the story. She did not ask to go to the wedding. She offered to cut off the friendship with the sister. Her husband told her to go to the wedding and keep the friendship. I'd say has decided if she wants to hook up with OM she will. No amount of full NC can change that. Thats why my husband did no drop friends or avoid social situations.

[DKT3]

No kool aide, its people who have been in the situation that understands what its like to be in the situation.

 

We are just going in circles, and in my opinion you simply don't get it. So I'm over it.

 

None of what your saying has anything to do with a WS doing things to make the BS feel comfortable and safe. Maybe the BS can handle it, or maybe they're faking it. Point is why risk it? These things shouldn't be done because its what the BS wants but because the WS wants to.

 

If it wasn't an issue, she would have never mentioned it here.

Edited February 22, 2015 by DKT3

[Selfish]

No kool aide, its people who have been in the situation that understands what its like to be in the situation.

 

We are just going in circles, and in my opinion you simply don't get it. So I'm over it.

 

None of what your saying has anything to do with a WS doing things to make the BS feel comfortable and safe. Maybe the BS can handle it, or maybe they're faking it. Point is why risk it? These things shouldn't be done because its what the BS wants but because the WS wants to.

 

If it wasn't an issue, she would have never mentioned it here.

 

Saying someone "doesn't understand" because they give different advice and have a different opinion is a very bigoted stance.

 

She beought it up because it is a grey area. There is no right or wrong that universally encompasses all with what NC is. I asked my husband about this and he said he would have not liked me deciding when he said we should go to a wedding or I should that actually no I had to make him feel "save" and therefore disregard his opinion on if. He told me he isn't the type of a**hole who tells someone to do something but actaually is wanting them to do something else. He isn't into playing games. So you see there are people who mean what they say.

 

I do not believe one has ended an affair if they are directly communicating romantically or friendly with thr AP. I have been in a lot of weddings. Private interactions do not have to happen between people. Also, being all in the same room together is as akward as hell the first few times. But a lot of good discussions between my spouse happened afterwards. Communication was key. Now it really is non important.

 

OP, i've said my bit. I know you'll make the best descision for you. Do so without feeling guilty. There is no one size fits all. If your husband wants you to go then do so if you want. Is he going? (That would be best). Inform your friend you will be civil but need to avoid him as much as possible. If you know you are going to connect with him. stay home.

[Grizzly101]

I think "Selfish" is saying that if we are of the same mindset, contact in certain situations can occur and all parties can be civil. Some contact can occur for some, for some NC is the only way to go. He also has relationships with my friend and her H and important for him to continue contact with the group. Also, my friend and her H are aware of the A after the fact. When it was going on, they had no idea.

 

H and I had an extensive conversation about all of this two nights ago. I am supposed to go there in April for goddaughters birthday. I found out OM is flying in with rest of family. I told H the moment that I found out and told him my intention of canceling my trip. I told him even though I am 100% over OM, I wanted to show loyalty and respect to H. He said that he believes I will have zero issues because of the steps that we have taken in our relationship after this occurred. He and I are in a different place than I was then. As far as the wedding, he is still urging me to go, but has not decided if he is going 100%. I told him that I only want to go if he is there.

 

When I did this, I was not at a place in my life or marriage that I felt like I do now. I did not have the sense of unity and love that I do now. Again, how I felt was not an excuse for the A, but it allowed me to rationalize. Where we have come since this, I can't imagine doing anything to put our relationship at risk. I respect him in a different way, love him differently and entirely. I don't have feelings for OM any longer and do not feel that casual contact will be an issue, especially since there will not be alone time with us.

[road]

I think "Selfish" is saying that if we are of the same mindset, contact in certain situations can occur and all parties can be civil. Some contact can occur for some, for some NC is the only way to go. He also has relationships with my friend and her H and important for him to continue contact with the group. Also, my friend and her H are aware of the A after the fact. When it was going on, they had no idea.

 

H and I had an extensive conversation about all of this two nights ago. I am supposed to go there in April for goddaughters birthday. I found out OM is flying in with rest of family. I told H the moment that I found out and told him my intention of canceling my trip. I told him even though I am 100% over OM, I wanted to show loyalty and respect to H. He said that he believes I will have zero issues because of the steps that we have taken in our relationship after this occurred. He and I are in a different place than I was then. As far as the wedding, he is still urging me to go, but has not decided if he is going 100%. I told him that I only want to go if he is there.

 

When I did this, I was not at a place in my life or marriage that I felt like I do now. I did not have the sense of unity and love that I do now. Again, how I felt was not an excuse for the A, but it allowed me to rationalize. Where we have come since this, I can't imagine doing anything to put our relationship at risk. I respect him in a different way, love him differently and entirely. I don't have feelings for OM any longer and do not feel that casual contact will be an issue, especially since there will not be alone time with us.

 

 

 

Breaking NC is how affairs restart.

 

 

You promised to never cheat on your BH and we see how good that lasted.

 

 

Your BH is not smart enough to comprehend this. You are not either because all it takes for you to break NC is for you to listen to your BH, a fool.

 

 

Jeopardy:

 

 

A man that lets his wife bang another man

 

 

What is a fool?

 

 

Daily Double:

 

 

A man that lets his WW break NC

 

 

What is fool that does not learn?

[Selfish]

Breaking NC is how affairs restart.

 

 

You promised to never cheat on your BH and we see how good that lasted.

 

 

Your BH is not smart enough to comprehend this. You are not either because all it takes for you to break NC is for you to listen to your BH, a fool.

 

 

Jeopardy:

 

 

A man that lets his wife bang another man

 

 

What is a fool?

 

 

Daily Double:

 

 

A man that lets his WW break NC

 

 

What is fool that does not learn?

 

 

Its funny because by your NC standards my affair should have restarted looooong ago. And so should have anne's

 

You know what restarts affairs? Restarting affairs or never ending them. You know does not have to restart an affair? Being in the same room. Those things are important for a ws who is not over the OM and/or a BS who is not comfortable with the situation. Anything else is just doing something because some person on the internet said thats how it has to be.

 

Grizzly, i'm glad things are going better. Keep on working on your marriage. Dont let yourself get complecent. I think the fact this started because of permission and an open marriage done wrong will in the long run help your husband heal faster than someone who is blindsided. Not to say he was anyless hurt but you know what I mean. It is a different situation than thinking you have a monogamous relationship when you don't.

[merrmeade]

This has gone too far. I'm not in charge and won't have time to get back here for the rest of the week, but would somebody please help DKT3 and road do the right thing by these people for pete's sake? Dozens, probably hundreds, of posters with longer track records have seen OTHER patterns and consequences. OP needs an open mind, but she needs more input to know the options and why. Where IS everybody??

 

Selfish, I don't know you. This isn't personal. It's not even about you, but it's like you're giving her a college rush to join your club or something. You're hogging the pages and getting inside her head, if that's what you want. It's not your fault there are only a couple of people in the peanut gallery, but she still needs other input.

 

Grizzly, I think if you keep listening only to her, you're going to rationalize yourself out of a marriage. There are PLENTY of old-timers that would tell you this sorta, sometimes, customized NC (not) bullsh-t is the stuff affairs are made on and, if you keep it up, that's all you'll have. There are oodles of websites that will concur. Selfish is saying what you want to hear, but can you do it that way? Have you done it? You've said and thought before that you could handle seeing OM. If it all comes down to a phone call that doesn't get through to your H, how good is that plan? You and your husband could pay dearly for this mindgame. Bend, modify and individualize all you want. It's just rationalization, plain and simple.

 

Here's an example: My husband and sister-in-law played a similar mind game. They needed for the EA to be okay and thought avoiding a PA made it so. After all, they were the best of friends but occasionally just "lost it." Each time, they'd agree it was "stupid" and vowed not to do it again. Then, there they'd be again—home alone once more, exchanging those pesky backrubs, sharing warm fuzzies that moved into frontal hugs long and close, and then—damn, lost it agin! How stupid! Even on Dday they couldn't hear the lameness, e.g., men/women friendships are normal, this was 90% friendship, they'd only 'lost it' a few times, there was no penetration (just your run-of-the-mill in-law hand-job).

 

It starts with thinking you're on top of of your feelings and telling your brain what it needs to hear. But to survive, your marriage requires that you be honest with yourself and avoid risk by instituting NC between you and the OM. I think you know this.

 

I hope you don't go in April, Grizzly. H will be grateful when all is said and done that you did that for him even though he didn't ask it. Your friend and her family will be fine without you, and if she's really a friend she'll understand.

Edited February 23, 2015 by merrmeade