Why do Less and Less Women Want Marriage or Even a Relationship?

[evanescentworld]

You know, I was thinking about this type of marriage as I posted. Marrying for love seems to be relatively recent in human history.

 

I wonder, then... is it better not to couple for love?

 

I'm a fairly well off guy for my age. Do I then just grab up a gold digger at my convenience? There are plenty of attractive women looking to gain something. I could gain too in that case. I'd share what I have, plus the travel and adventure. They'd do the female part. More of a win/win than a marriage for love. It's what was done throughout history up until more recent times, right?

 

An interesting idea for someone who has already had a 10 year marriage.

 

Also, i found true love (like I'd die for her) grew over time, as we spent more and more time together.

 

So maybe something that starts as a coupling for the sake of money could turn into something real as well.

 

Humans are so very complicated.....

 

Yes. We fall anywhere between the Waltons and Pretty Woman.....

[Weezy1973]

Not even close.

 

Do a search of single women, age 25-35 on POF.

 

A good 75% have "not looking for a relationship" as their preference. Especially if they are even remotely attractive.

 

I noticed this on pof, not so much in my own experience because my experience pool is too small to get any reasonable trend from.

 

It's *quite* evident in OLD sites.

 

I'm with you.,. definitely most women want a marriage or ltr. But most SINGLE women, as you can clearly see in an OLD site search, do not.

 

So like I said - confirmation bias:

 

1. POF is largely considered a "hook up" site. If you're looking to a hook up site for your "evidence" that women don't want marriage or relationships, you're clearly looking in the wrong place. It would be like me saying to do a search on eHarmony for women that just want casual sex and whine about how no women just want to have fun and keep things casual.

 

2. Still, by far, most marriages happen from people that met IRL. Through work, school, social circles, church etc. If you're looking to OLD to find a general trend about relationships and marriage you're doing it wrong.

 

 

Again - clearly - confirmation bias.

[Maleficent]

Not really. Men and women are both just better at different things. My grammar is passable at best, but I speak brilliantly. Different types of intelligences. My extra strength is very useful. I moonlight as a construction worker on occasion and it helps that I can carry sheets of 3/4 inch pressure treated plywood up flights of steps to the work area. Anyone who has had to carry that crap knows it's heavy.

 

 

 

I agree. I used to be married, and I got married because I loved the girl, not because there was really anything to gain from it.

 

But being with her was at least making your life more enjoyable, right? This is what we mean by 'benefit'. There is no point in committing to a relationship that brings nothing to both parties involved. Relationships should at the very least be enjoyable.

[Weezy1973]

I agree. I used to be married, and I got married because I loved the girl, not because there was really anything to gain from it.

 

What was it about her that you loved? Did she do special things for you because she loved you too? The benefit is not usually conferred on a transactional basis - it's more complicated.

 

People do things because it benefits them - full stop. It's not always obvious why.

[CALOVELY]

This is interesting too.

 

Is this what it has always been?

 

I got married because I loved someone. It didn't benefit me much at all. I saw it as sharing the experiences of life with someone I was compatible with. Any type of gain never entered my mind, though there were plenty of them later on.

 

Have people always seen marriages and relationship as ways to gain things, or is this new?

 

In a million years I'd never have known this.

 

Marriage throughout history has been about benefit and gain, either in money, property or titles. It is only in the last 90 or so odd years that it has been for love.

 

Many people don't want to marry anymore because as we advanced post industrial revolution, we didn't "need" each other as much anymore. The family farm where everybody stayed together to ensure survival is a bygone era. Most people can support themselves on their own these days so having a spouse isn't as important. That doesn't mean that marriage isn't important though. Marriage is still a valued social structure that benefits society. Marriage rates are less than they were in the past but more people get married than don't.

Edited December 21, 2014 by CALOVELY

[CALOVELY]

The origin of marriage was totally and completely to do with gaining things! It had very little, if anything, to do with love and affection, at all!

 

Marriages were once considered to be a very good way for families to combine their forces and strengthen their reserves.

A woman married a man and her family paid a dowry, or sum of money, as a gesture of connection and permanence. The Groom's family often also had benefits and advantages, for the bride's family; land, property, numbers of men/workers.... So very often, men had young women betrothed to them, as portions of property.

Hence the father giving the bride away, hence the engagement ring - also a symbol of the woman being linked or now chained to her husband's domain.

 

It was extremely common for marriages to be built solely on financial advantage, which is why so many men had mistresses, other than their wives. They didn't love their wives.

 

I didn't see your response before I posted mine. Like minds.

[evanescentworld]

Not really. Men and women are both just better at different things. My grammar is passable at best, but I speak brilliantly. Different types of intelligences. My extra strength is very useful. I moonlight as a construction worker on occasion and it helps that I can carry sheets of 3/4 inch pressure treated plywood up flights of steps to the work area. Anyone who has had to carry that crap knows it's heavy.

Believe it or not, I've worked with 6' x 3' 10mm MDF, and that stuff weighs a ton, too.....And I'm 4'10". So, proportionately, I can kind of equate, although I think the ply is much heavier....

 

There's nothing wrong with you're grammar, and your right, you speak brilliant too.

[nofeelings22]

So like I said - confirmation bias:

 

1. POF is largely considered a "hook up" site. If you're looking to a hook up site for your "evidence" that women don't want marriage or relationships, you're clearly looking in the wrong place. It would be like me saying to do a search on eHarmony for women that just want casual sex and whine about how no women just want to have fun and keep things casual.

 

2. Still, by far, most marriages happen from people that met IRL. Through work, school, social circles, church etc. If you're looking to OLD to find a general trend about relationships and marriage you're doing it wrong.

 

 

Again - clearly - confirmation bias.

 

Sigh... ok... if you must make it about me, personally, I'll participate....

 

1) I did try out those other sites in desperation soon after my divorce. Did not find any attractive singles and one of the sites would only match you (with Wilde beasts), not allowing a proper search. I tried pof just now because I don't know much about it. If it is as you say, it makes sense. However, it seems to be the preferred site in the age demographic.

 

2) By all means, yes. I'm reporting something interesting I noticed, not too worried about it. As i said, I'm drowning in girls right now anyway, but too scared to move on with them. Jab made a brilliant post today, showing me this. He's right. You're right. But you're not using the correct term. I'm pretty unaffected by confirmation bias having classical training as a scientist. I saw raw data and noticed a trend on pof.

[CALOVELY]

 

Today, I went to my help my GF do some work around her grandmother's house for her. There was nothing in it for me, I just did it. That's what relationships are about, and that's what the people who always look out for themselves will never understand.

 

You absolutely got something out of it, the admiration and love of your girlfriend. We are all motivated by things. None of us are selfless.

[Weezy1973]

Believe it or not, I've worked with 6' x 3' 10mm MDF, and that stuff weighs a ton, too.....And I'm 4'10". So, proportionately, I can kind of equate, although I think the ply is much heavier....

 

There's nothing wrong with you're grammar, and your right, you speak brilliant too.

 

hahahahahahahahaha

 

........

[nofeelings22]

Believe it or not, I've worked with 6' x 3' 10mm MDF, and that stuff weighs a ton, too.....And I'm 4'10". So, proportionately, I can kind of equate, although I think the ply is much heavier....

 

There's nothing wrong with you're grammar, and your right, you speak brilliant too.

 

Oooh! 4'10", master of grammar AND in shape enough to carry 10mm MDF???

 

My turn to propose marriage!

[Woggle]

Maybe most people are selfish but I would take a bullet for my wife if I had to and I mean that 100%. When I truly love somebody I am that loyal and she is the same for me. For me I either have that in a marriage or it's not worth it.

[hotpotato]

This is interesting too.

 

Is this what it has always been?

 

I got married because I loved someone. It didn't benefit me much at all. I saw it as sharing the experiences of life with someone I was compatible with. Any type of gain never entered my mind, though there were plenty of them later on.

 

Have people always seen marriages and relationship as ways to gain things, or is this new?

 

In a million years I'd never have known this.

 

Maybe not explicitly, but I'm willing to think on some level people want to feel like they gained something.

 

Most people don't want to work really hard for something and get nothing at the end of the day.

[CALOVELY]

I already had that. Many people here try to tell others how we think or why we do what we do. No one knows my motivations better than I.

 

I am not telling you how to think, I am saying that we are all motivated by something. Had your girlfriend dumped you yesterday, you would not have gone and helped her grandmother. Your reason is because of the continued admiration and love from her. We all do this. I've been married for 23 years and have love from my husband yet I do nice things for him because at a very basic level my "reward" is his admiration and appreciation.

[nofeelings22]

Maybe not explicitly, but I'm willing to think on some level people want to feel like they gained something.

 

Most people don't want to work really hard for something and get nothing at the end of the day.

 

Hmm.. I have never felt this way in any relationship... ever.

 

I've never had to work inside one.... well... nothing that felt like work anyway.

 

Maybe it's time to reevaluate that.

[CrystalCastles]

Not even close.

 

Do a search of single women, age 25-35 on POF.

 

A good 75% have "not looking for a relationship" as their preference. Especially if they are even remotely attractive.

 

It's *quite* evident in OLD sites.

 

I'm with you.,. definitely most women want a marriage or ltr. But most SINGLE women, as you can clearly see in an OLD site search, do not.

 

You're getting your statistics from OLD? Really? Hate to break it to you, but OLD (like Loveshack) is not representative of real life.

 

BUT HERE'S THE KICKER!!!!

 

They still want all the perks of what women got in the 60's or whatever!!!

 

They "shack up" instead of getting married. They even have kids in these shack-up situations. But, when he doesn't split the bills and/or chores like she sees "fit"...OMG, he's a jerk. If you want to be treated like a wife, then get married.

 

They get into FWBs/FBs, but when he moves on...she's heartbroken. Then, get a bf...stop sleeping with a guy w/o even knowing what kind of RL you are getting into.

 

I could go on and on.

 

Gloria, I see this again and again. Why do you post these hateful and judgmental comments towards women and feminism all the time? Why do you care how other women act? Are you worried the behaviour of other women has ruined men for you? Should women just go back to their kitchens, pop out tons of babies like they used to, have sex after marriage and not with whomever they want, in your opinion?

 

If a man has been dating many, many women, and all of them are "horrible, b****y sluts", then maybe the problem isn't the women he's dating. Maybe the problem is himself. Maybe the struggling dudes you consistently and aggressively defend need to take a good look at themselves.

 

OP, there are women who want marriage. There are women who want to start families. They are quite common. But the thing is, if you want a woman like that, then maybe you should have something worth offering to her. A woman isn't going to get with you simply because you're a man. A man certainly doesn't commit to a woman just because she's a woman.

[elaine567]

OP, there are women who want marriage. There are women who want to start families. They are quite common. But the thing is, if you want a woman like that, then maybe you should have something worth offering to her. A woman isn't going to get with you simply because you're a man. A man certainly doesn't commit to a woman just because she's a woman.

 

This ^^^^^

[ThaWholigan]

But being with her was at least making your life more enjoyable, right? This is what we mean by 'benefit'. There is no point in committing to a relationship that brings nothing to both parties involved. Relationships should at the very least be enjoyable.

Precisely. You have to want to do things for that person on some level. Of course, the idea of duty is involved where marriage is concerned and some people adhere to that, that's cool - but being with someone, while difficult, shouldn't always be a struggle. So what would be the point for more and more women to get into marriages then end up divorcing 5-10 years later when their long-term tryst runs it's course? Might as well not get married then! It gets complicated when children are involved of course, but that's because we've had the nuclear family blueprint instilled for a long time now - so it seems the only viable way to raise children according to a lot of us.

 

Either way, I digress. Women exercising their choice is (IMO) actually better - less likely to end up in a marriage fueled by desperation, lust and perceived societal pressure. Most things in life are cyclical and they work for that time frame - but overlaps always leave outliers. Such is life.

[hotpotato]

Hmm.. I have never felt this way in any relationship... ever.

 

I've never had to work inside one.... well... nothing that felt like work anyway.

 

Maybe it's time to reevaluate that.

 

I bet you did, although not consciously (re: gaining something)!

If you had not benefited in some way, you would not have dated any particular individual.

 

If you've never felt like it was work, good. Women tend to do a lot of the emotion work in a relationship. A lot of women also do things like put up with sexual double standards, take care of kids, house and home, and work even though they have a spouse.

 

I know on ls men never run out of bad things to say about women. Truth is many men are also very difficult to deal with.

Edited December 21, 2014 by hotpotato

[Danda]

For me it's an attempt to dodge the drama, bad feels and complications that come with a serious relationship.

 

The problem with your premise is that there is no middle ground, either women want serious relationships and/or marriage, or they want "strings of dudes in and out the door, multi-dating or just just changing guys every week."

 

Many women want a FWB sort of situation, not a bunch of different random dudes, but rather one trustworthy partner for sex and friends-like fun, yet not anything heavy/serious in the emotional department.

 

And maybe it is fair to say that we are kidding ourselves, or trying to have our cake and eat it, too. I'm still trying to figure this out for myself. But it's definitely not a case of, "Women want to get married or they want a million one night stands, nothing in between."

[Gloria25]

The origin of marriage was totally and completely to do with gaining things! It had very little, if anything, to do with love and affection, at all!

 

Marriages were once considered to be a very good way for families to combine their forces and strengthen their reserves.

A woman married a man and her family paid a dowry, or sum of money, as a gesture of connection and permanence. The Groom's family often also had benefits and advantages, for the bride's family; land, property, numbers of men/workers.... So very often, men had young women betrothed to them, as portions of property.

Hence the father giving the bride away, hence the engagement ring - also a symbol of the woman being linked or now chained to her husband's domain.

 

It was extremely common for marriages to be built solely on financial advantage, which is why so many men had mistresses, other than their wives. They didn't love their wives.

 

Well, it's pretty much still like that...Fathers can dump off their daughters to some dude...

 

Also, women get "status" (especially if they marry a guy with money). And, regardless of the women's movement - women still gain a financial "safety net" or "advantage" when they marry.

 

I often wonder if that's why some cultures are t-d off when they give birth to a girl....to much of a headache to deal with.

[Gloria25]

Yes. We fall anywhere between the Waltons and Pretty Woman.....

 

Yeah, but while men have the drive to "provide and protect", I'd not feel happy about some chick being with me cuz of my wallet.

 

I mean, I've also seen women "pay" for companionship and again, I just can't get horny about "Loooove" I have to "buy".

[nofeelings22]

For me it's an attempt to dodge the drama, bad feels and complications that come with a serious relationship.

 

The problem with your premise is that there is no middle ground, either women want serious relationships and/or marriage, or they want "strings of dudes in and out the door, multi-dating or just just changing guys every week."

 

Many women want a FWB sort of situation, not a bunch of different random dudes, but rather one trustworthy partner for sex and friends-like fun, yet not anything heavy/serious in the emotional department.

 

And maybe it is fair to say that we are kidding ourselves, or trying to have our cake and eat it, too. I'm still trying to figure this out for myself. But it's definitely not a case of, "Women want to get married or they want a million one night stands, nothing in between."

 

Yes, this.

 

This is exactly what I see in my personal experience as well as in profiles online.

 

This is precisely the view I was so curious about. They talk about not wanting the drama of a relationship. All I can imagine is they were with the worst guts imaginable and had such a bad experience, they are shut off, emotionally.

 

Or are people who made the decision you have made just not interested in the depth involved in a relationship.

 

You get this. You are describing exactly what I've seen as the most prevalent approach single women are taking now.

 

Sure, my data may be wrong, looking at old. I'm not very versed in that. But this outlook is the norm right now. And people... when i talk about strings of guys in and out, I'm thinking of the love lives of many of my female friends.

 

Why? Why are the majority of single women no choosing not to explore relationships.

 

It's like marriage is right off the table and relationships are teetering on the edge now too. Women's preference.

Edited December 21, 2014 by nofeelings22

[hotpotato]

Yes, this.

 

This is exactly what I se in my personal experience as well as in profiles online.

 

This is precisely the view I was so curious about. They talk about not wanting the drama of a relationship. All I can imagine is they were with the worst guts imaginable and had such a bad experience, they are shut off, emotionally.

 

Or are people who made the decision you have made just not interested in the depth involved in a relationship.

 

You get this. You are describing exactly what I've seen as the most prevalent approach single women are taking now.

 

Sure, my data may be wrong, looking at old. I'm not very versed in that. But this outlook is the norm right now.

 

Why?

 

I guess for me its both. Ive been trying like shyt, and ive always been independent and fine alone (alone but not lonely). I enjoy peace and being by myself. I think id be more inclined to date if only one of those traits were missing.

 

After 2 years ive adapted very well to being single. Dating someone seriously would require a major change in lifestyle.

 

I dont think most women are like me. I think most women want very badly to get paired and have a kid. I am approaching 30 and care a lot less about kids.

Edited December 21, 2014 by hotpotato

[Gloria25]

I guess for me its both. Ive been trying like shyt, and ive always been independent and fine alone (alone but not lonely). I enjoy peace and being by myself. I think id be more inclined to date if only one of those traits were missing.

 

After 2 years ive adapted very well to being single. Dating someone seriously would require a major change in lifestyle.

 

I dont think most women are like me. I think most women want very badly to get paired and have a kid. I am approaching 30 and care a lot less about kids.

 

Me too in a way ^^.

 

The longer I've stayed single, the more I'm used to it. Even when small changes (i.e. mum coming in/out of my home), it's like I have to make an "adjustment" to my lifestyle to accommodate someone else.

 

I'm approaching 40 and still do not have a desire to have kids.

 

Of course I get lonely and get tired of dating one guy after the other and would love to have a consistent guy to have sex with and go out now and then, but nah, don't feel that's motivation enough for me to pretend I want kids and/or get married.