BS's and the Moral High Horse. Or...Wayward Empahy?

[jm2013]

Because you can't make your WW leave if she doesn't want to.

 

You left and you say it was a mistake - why do you say this?

 

 

Meaning if I could go back I would have tried to get her out of the house instead of me. It was as if I was being punished by her piss poor decisions. She got to enjoy the comfort of our house and presence of our daughter still. I'm not sure why I did not tell her to leave until I could find clarity. I just packed up and left and told her to expect a divorce.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Meaning if I could go back I would have tried to get her out of the house instead of me. It was as if I was being punished by her piss poor decisions. She got to enjoy the comfort of our house and presence of our daughter still. I'm not sure why I did not tell her to leave until I could find clarity. I just packed up and left and told her to expect a divorce.

 

Interesting. Sorry to hear that you went through that.

 

On D-Day, I remember telling WW to go show up at OM's door with our two kids in tow, and see how Prince Charming handles it. I'll bet you 1000 dollars he tells you to go to a hotel.

 

But later that night, as the reality of it all soaked in, I remember automatically thinking that I was the one who would have to leave. I was going to lose the kids. Lose the house. Be the one stuck with no furniture and starting over in a crappy apartment across town. Maybe it was paranoia, maybe it was just the result of living in SoCal, where men usually get screwed in court.

 

Whatever it was, that was how I felt.

 

But if it ever happens again, I'll have my head screwed on right, and there would be no way I'd leave the house. Hell, I'd hole up here like some hippie trying to protect a redwood tree! They'd need a wrecking ball to get me outta here!

[road]

My husband asked if we used protection. He asked where he was when certain incidents took place to create a timeline for himself. Most things I offered before he could ask but he did not want to know a play by play.

 

he never questioned me telling him the truth. Even though on here many would encourage him "there was more" and all WS lie and minimize.

 

 

 

 

The problem is you were willing to tell your BH more then he was willing to hear or wanted to learn. Your BH was not left with a bunch of unanswered questions, bouts of trickle truth, stories from his WW that did not match up.

 

 

If these things were so your BH would of pulled a Sherlock Holmes on your butt to get more truth out of you.

 

 

Your BH's response was not about you being honest and willing to tell all. His response was only based on that you were willing to confess more then he needed to learn. This is why you got off easy during the interrogation phase.

[road]

****************************************************************

 

He is one secure man...again I applaud you for telling all he ask..MOST DO NOT...as you have stated and seen here MOST BHs have a SOUL CRUSHING experiance and no matter how secure we think we are (BHs)...we simply cannot over come the lies and betrayal and pain that goes with it...

 

Thank you for answering my post as that is deeply personal and if you could not ..I would have understood..

 

 

 

Secure?

 

 

Maybe this BH knew how much he could handle learning about his WW and OM romps. That learning more could of made staying married impossible for him. Or even if he would not divorce he knew that knowing more would leave him with images that would trigger him for the next thirty years.

[drifter777]

My husband asked if we used protection. He asked where he was when certain incidents took place to create a timeline for himself. Most things I offered before he could ask but he did not want to know a play by play. BEsides it being illicit nature, xMM and I had vanilla sex (missionary, doggie.) and I never got fully naked. That was all the info my H wanted.

 

he never questioned me telling him the truth. Even though on here many would encourage him "there was more" and all WS lie and minimize. He is a smart man and knows not all do and sometimes there isn't more. And the things I confessed to were as bad as it gets. (sex while under the same roof)

 

he took it well in comparison to many others. my husband is a very secure man. I do not define him. He was hurt and disappointed in me but he did not have the soul crushing experience others have. There is nothing chauvinist about him, he is not a dweller, nor does he overthink things. He never made it about him or his failings. He asked that I get tested for stis and go NC. I had an appointment already for the sti test already and had already implemented NC. I also had to go into counseling. he waited until my sti tests came in before we resumed sexual activity. I waited holding my breath for a year for the other shoe to drop. But there was no other shoe. (I should note here that my affair was carried out by me taking advantage of his trust. He knew when I was with xMM but trusted me to behave. It isn't foolish or rugsweeping of him that he didn't rail on me or make a whole bunch of demands. he was well aware of my whereabouts and behaviour after I confessed. That was enough for him)

I don't know why you cheated while married to this wonderful man. I'm sure you could share a reason with us, but it wouldn't matter to me.

 

I really mean it when I refer to your BH as a wonderful man. To have self-esteem this strong is remarkable and it makes me happy to know there are men like him in the world.

 

I do hope you understand that your BH is not typical. He is at one extreme - the good one - while the guy who shoots his WW on d-day is at the other.

[Selfish]

I don't know why you cheated while married to this wonderful man. I'm sure you could share a reason with us, but it wouldn't matter to me.

 

I really mean it when I refer to your BH as a wonderful man. To have self-esteem this strong is remarkable and it makes me happy to know there are men like him in the world.

 

I do hope you understand that your BH is not typical. He is at one extreme - the good one - while the guy who shoots his WW on d-day is at the other.

 

Because it doesn't matter how wonderful you are someone else can choose to be selfish. I was selfish. I really convinced myself that what he didn't know, didn't hurt him. I thought I'd never be caught and ergo, he'd never be hurt. He wasn't open to the idea of an open marriage when I tried things that way. I didn't even look at the risk I was taking.

 

I got off lucky. He can be a hard a55 in his work and I thought confessing would mean the end of my marriage. But I was given the gift of a second chance. One I don't take lightly. And anyone who wants to save their marriage shouldn't either.

 

I don't know how he is so confident in himself. I've asked him his secret. Sometimes I feel like I could never deserve him. But I am who he wants, and he is who I want so I try my darnedest to be a good wife.

[jm2013]

Because it doesn't matter how wonderful you are someone else can choose to be selfish. I was selfish. I really convinced myself that what he didn't know, didn't hurt him. I thought I'd never be caught and ergo, he'd never be hurt. He wasn't open to the idea of an open marriage when I tried things that way. I didn't even look at the risk I was taking.

 

I got off lucky. He can be a hard a55 in his work and I thought confessing would mean the end of my marriage. But I was given the gift of a second chance. One I don't take lightly. And anyone who wants to save their marriage shouldn't either.

 

I don't know how he is so confident in himself. I've asked him his secret. Sometimes I feel like I could never deserve him. But I am who he wants, and he is who I want so I try my darnedest to be a good wife.

 

How long has it been since your affair? How do you know he's not just lying to you about his true feelings?

[drifter777]

How long has it been since your affair? How do you know he's not just lying to you about his true feelings?

This question has been asked by BH's and answered by WW's a hundred times here at LS over the past few years. Every time the WW who believes their BH has accepted/forgiven and the A is behind them won't accept the possibility that he might be hiding negative feelings. Beyond that, they usually are angry and/or insulted that you could even ask such a question.

 

This is not directed as Selfish - just WWs in general.

[jbrent890]

This question has been asked by BH's and answered by WW's a hundred times here at LS over the past few years. Every time the WW who believes their BH has accepted/forgiven and the A is behind them won't accept the possibility that he might be hiding negative feelings. Beyond that, they usually are angry and/or insulted that you could even ask such a question.

 

This is not directed as Selfish - just WWs in general.

 

So true. I think most (not all) WSs need to believe that everything is finally okay in order for them to move on. Then you come on here and you see that even though things may appear to be okay on the surface, the majority of BSs are still harboring resentment and negative feelings YEARS after d day. It really does make me scared of my future. Idk. I think at some point though, everybody just accepts that the marriage will never be what it was.

[Selfish]

How long has it been since your affair? How do you know he's not just lying to you about his true feelings?

 

He could be. he could be a sociopath and a skilled actor. Stranger things have happened.

 

But his actions and his words match. He looks me in the eye when we have sex, he makes love to me. He sometimes just holds me. We fight without my affair being mentioned. He tells me he loves me. We had another child by his request after my affair. He treats me amazing and does ever so much for me. He does not get angry or brooding over nothing. He is ever present when he his present. We do so much together and have the ability to send our kids to grandparents and have date nights regularly. Not out of desperate trying to salvage something but because we are best friends and lovers. We communicate.

 

He does have triggers from time to time but he says they are more like a painful memory than something that affects his present life. one small example happened this year at his work christmas party. One rather drunk man became quite flirty with me when I was waiting in line to get drinks. H saw it and he triggered. But then he saw me politely shut the guy down and ignore him. I saw that he saw, I felt the comparison to something that had happened during my A in regards to xMM's behaviour. I brought it up later and we talked about it. This is something people unaffected by infidelity don't have to deal with. My affair happened that isn't going to change. But some people, my husband included, are able to make it a thing of the past. and not dwell and let it run their life.

[Selfish]

So true. I think most (not all) WSs need to believe that everything is finally okay in order for them to move on. Then you come on here and you see that even though things may appear to be okay on the surface, the majority of BSs are still harboring resentment and negative feelings YEARS after d day. It really does make me scared of my future. Idk. I think at some point though, everybody just accepts that the marriage will never be what it was.

 

I think that those WS are just as tainted in their belief it is all good as the BS who are still harbouring resentment and seek out the forums are in thinking that because they are x,y and z all bs must be x y and z.

 

there will never be positive feelings by either of us when my affair is remembered. But that doesn't mean it rules our lives. there is a big difference than having a bad memory of something that comes up from time to time and wallowing in resentment, anger and resentment. Or even having resentment at all.

[Selfish]

This question has been asked by BH's and answered by WW's a hundred times here at LS over the past few years. Every time the WW who believes their BH has accepted/forgiven and the A is behind them won't accept the possibility that he might be hiding negative feelings. Beyond that, they usually are angry and/or insulted that you could even ask such a question.

 

This is not directed as Selfish - just WWs in general.

Of course it was directed at me, I am a wayward wife. I already know you think I am a disgusting human being. IT really is no surprise you also think I live in denial.

 

I was neither angry or insulted he asked the question. His doubt and insecurities and unhappiness in his own situation is where his question came from. It has no bearing on my life or me.

 

It is arrogance to think because you feel a certain way every single person or even most people who shares genitalia with you must think the same.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Selfish

[jm2013]

Secure?

 

 

Maybe this BH knew how much he could handle learning about his WW and OM romps. That learning more could of made staying married impossible for him. Or even if he would not divorce he knew that knowing more would leave him with images that would trigger him for the next thirty years.

 

Wouldn't that be rugsweeping?

[anne1707]

Wouldn't that be rugsweeping?

 

For some BS, yes. For other BS, no. It does not mean that one is better than the other. What counts is what the BS wants and needs to move on.

[autumnnight]

The problem is you were willing to tell your BH more then he was willing to hear or wanted to learn. Your BH was not left with a bunch of unanswered questions, bouts of trickle truth, stories from his WW that did not match up.

 

 

If these things were so your BH would of pulled a Sherlock Holmes on your butt to get more truth out of you.

 

 

Your BH's response was not about you being honest and willing to tell all. His response was only based on that you were willing to confess more then he needed to learn. This is why you got off easy during the interrogation phase.

 

 

or...

or..

 

OR....

 

Her being willing to be completely honest is a good thing rather than a "problem."

 

Just throwing that out there

[road]

He could be. he could be a sociopath and a skilled actor. Stranger things have happened.

 

But his actions and his words match. He looks me in the eye when we have sex, he makes love to me. He sometimes just holds me. We fight without my affair being mentioned. He tells me he loves me. We had another child by his request after my affair. He treats me amazing and does ever so much for me. He does not get angry or brooding over nothing. He is ever present when he his present. We do so much together and have the ability to send our kids to grandparents and have date nights regularly. Not out of desperate trying to salvage something but because we are best friends and lovers. We communicate.

 

He does have triggers from time to time but he says they are more like a painful memory than something that affects his present life. one small example happened this year at his work christmas party. One rather drunk man became quite flirty with me when I was waiting in line to get drinks. H saw it and he triggered. But then he saw me politely shut the guy down and ignore him. I saw that he saw, I felt the comparison to something that had happened during my A in regards to xMM's behaviour. I brought it up later and we talked about it. This is something people unaffected by infidelity don't have to deal with. My affair happened that isn't going to change. But some people, my husband included, are able to make it a thing of the past. and not dwell and let it run their life.

 

 

 

I bet he can leave it in the past because he has not been left with unanswered questions from his WW.

[road]

Wouldn't that be rugsweeping?

 

 

 

No rug sweeping is the BS caving into the WS and stop asking questions and seeking answers. The affair is not mentioned nor is any work done to make the marriage better post affair. The WS is not held accountable. Which sets the table for the WS to have a second affair.

 

 

Her BH did not rug sweep. As always the BS controls how much info is revealed. He got as much as he wanted.

[road]

or...

or..

 

OR....

 

Her being willing to be completely honest is a good thing rather than a "problem."

 

Just throwing that out there

 

 

 

It is very much a problem when the WW tries to reveal more information then the BH wants. Part of recovery is that the BS gets to control how much they learn.

[sidney2718]

No rug sweeping is the BS caving into the WS and stop asking questions and seeking answers. The affair is not mentioned nor is any work done to make the marriage better post affair. The WS is not held accountable. Which sets the table for the WS to have a second affair.

 

I don't think that's accurate. Sometimes the penalty is to live in anguish for years because one knows one has gone wrong.

 

Her BH did not rug sweep. As always the BS controls how much info is revealed. He got as much as he wanted.

 

That's not quite true either. Sometimes the BS wants more details and doesn't get them. Sometimes the WS wants the questioning to stop and it doesn't until more is revealed.

 

Every case is different. There are general rules, but that's about it.

[road]

I don't think that's accurate. Sometimes the penalty is to live in anguish for years because one knows one has gone wrong.

 

 

 

That's not quite true either. Sometimes the BS wants more details and doesn't get them. Sometimes the WS wants the questioning to stop and it doesn't until more is revealed.

 

Every case is different. There are general rules, but that's about it.

 

 

 

Rug sweeping has nothing to do with how the WS feels.

 

 

One Hundred Percent true because the WW and BH I am referring to is where the WW does not refuse to tell all and the BH does not want more details. This couple has nothing to do with general rules. It is specifically to how they are reacting. Their situation has nothing to do with other cases only theirs.

[autumnnight]

Rug sweeping has nothing to do with how the WS feels.

 

 

One Hundred Percent true because the WW and BH I am referring to is where the WW does not refuse to tell all and the BH does not want more details. This couple has nothing to do with general rules. It is specifically to how they are reacting. Their situation has nothing to do with other cases only theirs.

 

True, and this is the case for every case. That is why seeing everyone's situation through our own lenses is, well, not very good.

[Zenstudent]

My husband asked if we used protection. He asked where he was when certain incidents took place to create a timeline for himself. Most things I offered before he could ask but he did not want to know a play by play. BEsides it being illicit nature, xMM and I had vanilla sex (missionary, doggie.) and I never got fully naked. That was all the info my H wanted.

 

he never questioned me telling him the truth. Even though on here many would encourage him "there was more" and all WS lie and minimize. He is a smart man and knows not all do and sometimes there isn't more. And the things I confessed to were as bad as it gets. (sex while under the same roof)

 

he took it well in comparison to many others. my husband is a very secure man. I do not define him. He was hurt and disappointed in me but he did not have the soul crushing experience others have. There is nothing chauvinist about him, he is not a dweller, nor does he overthink things. He never made it about him or his failings. He asked that I get tested for stis and go NC. I had an appointment already for the sti test already and had already implemented NC. I also had to go into counseling. he waited until my sti tests came in before we resumed sexual activity. I waited holding my breath for a year for the other shoe to drop. But there was no other shoe. (I should note here that my affair was carried out by me taking advantage of his trust. He knew when I was with xMM but trusted me to behave. It isn't foolish or rugsweeping of him that he didn't rail on me or make a whole bunch of demands. he was well aware of my whereabouts and behaviour after I confessed. That was enough for him)

Or maybe, he doesn't think that infidelity is that big of a deal - a lot of people share this view. He may even have his own thing going - nobody really knows besides himself.

[Selfish]

Or maybe, he doesn't think that infidelity is that big of a deal - a lot of people share this view. He may even have his own thing going - nobody really knows besides himself.

Is it very important to you that because my husband did not allow my actions to destroy him or drag him down to my level that he must have no morals or not care? Or be getting a piece on the side. Attack me all you want. Call me names and get your kicks in. But don't try to cast shadow on someone you don't even know just to feel better about your own actions. People react differently to infidelity. I understand it completely destroying someone. Specially if the wayward is caught, gaslights, trickle truths, multiple DDays. the affair is with a close buddy or family member. I am not going to tell someone who can't get off the floor because it hurts so bad to just "get over it". Why do others feel the need to judge my husband for reacting differently than them?

 

He let me know quite loud and clear that me stepping out was not acceptable. Maybe in the sense that his happiness and identity did not hinge on me being a faithful wife he was less destroyed by my actions. But he was hurt and so very disappointed in me. And he told me there would be no marriage if I continued. He values fidelity in marriage. It doesn't mean he won't forgive and give me a second shot.

 

When I was waiting for more typical behaviour from my husband. Or at least internet typical I thought maybe he was cheating. So I did the snooping. Threw in some surprise visits to his work. What I found was nothing. Not even something that was suspect. And then I realized I was projecting. I was projecting my poor morals and decisions onto him. I was trying to "think" like him and judge him by my low standards. And so I stopped.

[jnel921]

As a BW I don't think self righteous or high horse can define my attitude after my H's affair.

 

If at all, I felt humbled and hurt. Yes my H was wrong. But I didn't feel that I had to stick it to him because of what he did and feel justified. I needed him to show and prove that he was worthy of me yet once again.

 

If he, like your W, trickle truthed and was not into the R 100%. Then that would have been the end of us. No question here.

 

Your false start as you say... could have muddied up whatever genuine remorse your WW decided to show in her new revelations or feelings years later. Maybe a little too much too late?

 

Thinking about how you would have acted as a WH doesn't apply. Everyone is different. Everyone reacts and responds differently. But like you said...you haven't cheated and wont. If that is not in you then why speak it.

 

Morally superior? I don't know. I think that waywards definitely lack in that department. But we have to question our own morals too when we take the risks of allowing these people back in our lives who may or may not hurt us again.

 

If she is coming around and things are better then good for the both of you if you want this to work. If you are now questioning this, then maybe you need to really be clear about how you feel about your WW and your lives going forward. Whether or not you want to continue.

 

Good Luck.

[Furious]

It's not uncommon for some betrayed spouses to become WS's at some point. I imagine they have not really forgiven but choose to stay in their marriage and have an affair for the similar reasons their WS's had and reason what they don't know won't hurt them.

 

I think there's a difference to an individual sense of moral high-ground as opposed to a broader societal moral high-ground. For example, a person could have a friend who is in an affair and turn a blind eye, or be supportive to that friend in keeping their secret. On the flip side, if they were being cheated on and their WS's friend was supportive and kept their secret I doubt they'd see it the same way.

 

The moral high round issues is not black and white, and it depends on what side of it someone is that is most interesting.