My husband's female friend (Updated)

[confusedwifey81]

He met her when your marriage was over, after you had moved out, so this is not the usual MM looking for an OW.

He did not meet her looking for an affair, and she was not looking to be a mistress.

He met her looking for a partner, after you moved out and told him you were not "in love" with him.

They thus met more or less on equal boyfriend/girlfriend terms, looking for a relationship.

His questions and her answers are thus more revealing if viewed in that context.

So then do you think he really liked her and wanted to be with her? I saw in the messages that he would always ask her out to this and that, or tell her he wanted to take her here and there but she always declined him, telling him that his marriage bothered her to being seeing him like they were dating. Maybe her indecisiveness is what pushed him back to me? He told her he would never make her his mistress after getting back with me...if this was just about sex maybe i could past it but i think he got emotionally attached her...I can tell he's sad lately and I don't know if it's because he had to leave her alone or what...

Edited November 10, 2014 by confusedwifey81

[ChasingCars]

You aren't listening well to anything said to you or any evidence you find- that doesn't agree with what you want when you want it.

 

Yes he is emotionally invested in her.

Yes he cheats.

Yes, you didn't want him as he was until you had competition because he wasn't changing. If you married him with the intention of changing his firm decision of kids- you never married him as he was anyway.

Yes, the kids are an excuse to stay together and needn't be at their age- they are already aware of drama, so you can't say shielding them is the goal.

 

Married men or women for that matter do often stay for reasons other than being in love and wanting to be with you but do you both want to do that? Neither of you are happy here.

 

So much is obvious to everyone but you because you don't want to see.

You want confirmation for what you want at that moment.

 

I feel like if you had posted originally about leaving and him being a douche then if anyone had posted the same crappola you are posting in his defense now- you would have argued the other side. Until you switched sides and changed your position to what you thought/felt best suited your needs now.

 

A therapist could be very useful for you, individually.

 

Wishing the best for you all, especially the kids.

[GirlStillStrong]

I am so sorry this has been happening in your life. I think that your focus is not where it needs to be, that is on yourself and your child(ren). You are wasting precious time and energy trying to figure out what other people are doing when you would do better devoting your time and energy to your own education and self. I say if he wants to be an ass and be with someone else, you were DONE with him anyway. Let them go and you move on with your decision which was what you have known all along: You married a guy who does not line up with the things you want in a partner! I am sure there is a WHOLE LIST of things you dislike about him as a marriage partner, other than the fact that he is a dishonest, disloyal, dysfunctional human being. Tell me, what else? Let me guess. He does drugs and or drinks too much? He is not a good father? Only you know the answers but I think you are just so distracted by what he is doing, which is making you, rightly, feel insecure, that you've forgotten why you didn't want him in the first place.

[Mr. Lucky]

I do love him, my daughter loves him very much, he is a great dad...

 

Regardless of the input you get here, it's up to you to set your own boundaries. If the above is true and you're willing to accept the affairs, STDs and constant need for snooping/checking, then follow your heart and continue in your marriage.

 

Just do so on a realistic and informed basis. All this wishin' and hopin' he'll turn into someone else is a waste of time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[goodyblue]

He also would tell her alot how sad he was that his family was breaking apart, and that he was down because everything and sad about his stepdaughter BUT he didn't show any of that saddness to me. Once when I texted him to tell him I was sad, I asked him how he was doing and said he was doing ok and that made me mad! Why can he tell her but not me??

 

I was OW and i will tell you why thathappened with my guy and his now ex wife: Because he was not emotionally invested in her and was emotionally attached to me. I was his best friend. His confidante. His lover. I also would never hace spoken to his ex. She tried to confront me once and guess what i did? I called my guy. I told him immediately.

[elaine567]

I can tell he's sad lately

 

Marriage shouldn't be about sadness, especially one that is only 3 years old.

There is no point in getting back with a sad man, a man that may be feels it is his duty to continue in a relationship, he is not particularly committed to. Sometimes people go back to relationships because it is best for the kids, or they are guilt tripped into going back, or they just do not see any way forward otherwise. You need to find out exactly why, this man feels so sad?

Two potentially sad, upset people in a relationship is not going to work, especially when it is the relationship itself, that may be the cause of the misery.

[confusedwifey81]

I was OW and i will tell you why thathappened with my guy and his now ex wife: Because he was not emotionally invested in her and was emotionally attached to me. I was his best friend. His confidante. His lover. I also would never hace spoken to his ex. She tried to confront me once and guess what i did? I called my guy. I told him immediately.

So in your opinion what is going on here?? Does he want to be with her??

[MTmama]

Do you think it is helpful to keep contacting this girl? You are in a relationship with your DH, not her. Can you focus on him? Have you ever thought about going to counseling? A counselor may be able to help you figure out what is going on in your relationship. I am so sorry this is a struggle.

[goodyblue]

.

So in your opinion what is going on here?? Does he want to be with her??

 

I cant be sure, i don't live with your hubby. I am just telling you, that sounds to me that those are pretty common things with MM and OW. And when there IS an affair, these things are planned, discussed beforehand as they dont want to be outed. Here is the thing i do not think you are considering: when an affair is found out, or wants to stay private, it is taken underground. Secret untraceable phones, secret emails, untraceable apps to chat and facetime. So no amount of snooping helps.

Edited November 10, 2014 by goodyblue

[stillafool]

So then do you think he really liked her and wanted to be with her? I saw in the messages that he would always ask her out to this and that, or tell her he wanted to take her here and there but she always declined him, telling him that his marriage bothered her to being seeing him like they were dating. Maybe her indecisiveness is what pushed him back to me? He told her he would never make her his mistress after getting back with me...if this was just about sex maybe i could past it but i think he got emotionally attached her...I can tell he's sad lately and I don't know if it's because he had to leave her alone or what...[/QUOTE]

 

He didn't want to make her a mistress because he didn't want to lower her to that level. He sounds like he's in love with her and the separation is killing him but he wants to do the right thing.

[goodyblue]

So then do you think he really liked her and wanted to be with her? I saw in the messages that he would always ask her out to this and that, or tell her he wanted to take her here and there but she always declined him, telling him that his marriage bothered her to being seeing him like they were dating. Maybe her indecisiveness is what pushed him back to me? He told her he would never make her his mistress after getting back with me...if this was just about sex maybe i could past it but i think he got emotionally attached her...I can tell he's sad lately and I don't know if it's because he had to leave her alone or what...[/QUOTE]

 

He didn't want to make her a mistress because he didn't want to lower her to that level. He sounds like he's in love with her and the separation is killing him but he wants to do the right thing.

 

I was told these exact words. Then all through the affair i was told how guilty he felt, not about his w, but about our relationship being sullied. So he left his wife.

[merrmeade]

Now why on Earth would she be concerned that he would do that to her if they weren't getting close? It may not have been the best move on his part, but the fact that she gave that response should make things pretty clear to you about what is going on between them. He is/was trying to have an affair with her. You may not be as good of a snooper as you think. But, even if you are, it doesn't appear that you are understanding what you are reading.

Better listen to the voice of experience.

 

You two need to have some real heart to heart talks and what you see your future as, and then set some boundaries and expectations for each other, which on his part must include transparency and a total committment to you.

But, first, you need to have a heart to heart with yourself. I mean have you thought about your own 360 turn-around? You moved out then changed your mind because he started taking care of business - because he could. You made it easy and he's just going underground now.

 

I know he said to that girl that if they had gotten together before we were married they would have probably had a kid...I think he was just joking though. I mean from what I read MM don't really mean what they say to these other women. And if he is on his way out of our marriage why is he trying to bring our kids back together and possibly go to MC with me?

These things don't exactly compute. First you can't take a sweeping generalization like "MM don't really mean what they say to these other women" and apply it. Second, there are other explanations for all the theings you said. I think whatever the reason he said it - actualy most likely flattery - it wasn't joking. Who would think that was funny?

... now he wants to work on our marriage so that means his feelings can't be too deep for her. MM hardly ever leave for the other woman...he's a family man, i can't see him doing that

There you go generalizing again to make yourself feelt better. Don't assume anything. As he gets more infatuated and things with you get more strident, his feelings could get deeper.

But most MM don't leave for the other woman! And he has been trying to work on things and we might do MC

TAnd again, spouting off these things like they're rules. Sorry, I'm trying to be gentle but you're not thinking clearly. I didn't either when it happened to me. Now, I understand people's frustration when I was so insistent or defensive. I'm sorry and it is understandable.

 

But can't MC help this? He must love me, he married me from a reason. I don't think he is setting her up because he LET HER GO. Wouldn't he be relentless pursuing her if he wanted an affair? He also told her everything as far as working on our marriage and needing to back off from her, so he was honest with her about that. I mean guess he could be waiting for me to calm down but idk...I think he is trying

MC won't make him feel deep, life-changing remorse if instead of offering to drop everything and make it up to you when you confronted him, he instead told you to back off his new girlfriend, well, do you think he's ready for NC with her and total recommitment to you? MC won't fix this. It might make the marriage more satisfying. Some part of him clearly wants to do the right thing by you - all but giving up the yummy sideshow, that is.

 

Then why did he tell her she could respond to me if she wanted? Clearly she didn't want to but he wasn't mad she didn't cover his story. He knows it looks suspicious that she won't talk to me espeically if nothing happened but instead he is understanding in why she won't talk to me. It's like he's taking her side or defending her on this

I do understand being obsessed with talking to her even though she doesn't want it, he doesn't want it and everyone's telling you it's a very bad idea. I and hundreds of others here will tell you, however, it will simply be one more devastation that will simply finish you off. It will neither solve nor answer anything because your unhappiness is unpleasant to her and makes her feel things she doesn't want to think about. She has no reason to cooperate or communicate with you fully, accurately or at all. She owes you nothing. You would come away feeling out-of-control and unheard. Please: You need to drop this idea and listen to the other advice you're getting. Edited November 11, 2014 by merrmeade
sorry - it was too strong for BS state

[Realist3]

Have you confronted your H on any of the snooping you have done? You seem to have been able to garner access to quite a good many conversations. What you have found suggest a very strong emotional bond.

 

 

He has been sharing the most intimate details of his life with this woman. They are not 'just friends'. The things they were talking about were not 'just friends' talk. I say this from the perspective of a person that has been in an affair for 5 years. I have a bunch of female friends, and one lover. I know the difference in what is talked about quite well.

 

You mentioned the NC for two weeks over and over again. Do you have any idea how many times AP's go through NC dances, and they end up falling through? A bunch. These exercises actually strengthen the yearning.

 

You mentioned in your original post about your H naming her. That was done for a specific purpose. It was done to normalize this 'friend' to you. I did the same exact thing to my wife. What you have read to date certainly proves this is not just some friendship. There are people that have posted on this forum looking for anything, any bit of a clue that their spouse was involved with someone else. Most of them get very little compared to what you have. I am thinking of one poor guy who didn't have 1/100ths of what you have and he still left his wife.

 

 

I understand wanting to win the fight, make things right again, but it just doesn't seem to be the man to make it right with. Is he fighting his ass off for you???? Your posts do not seem to indicate that he is.

 

It is not for me to tell you what to do, but you have plenty of evidence staring you in the face about what is going on, no matter how much you do not want to accept it.

 

*I will add that I am not someone that jumps off the cliff on superficial evidence.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Realist3

[JS84]

Woooowww. There are ALOT of men out there better than your husband.

[stillafool]

But most MM don't leave for the other woman! And he has been trying to work on things and we might do MC

 

But you originally didn't want him and moved out! Now that this woman is around you are jealous. If he is under your roof why are you so worried? If she wanted him he would be with her. She obviously doesn't want him so you win. End of story. Accept your prize already.

[stillafool]

Ok maybe he did while we were separated but now he wants to work on our marriage so that means his feelings can't be too deep for her. MM hardly ever leave for the other woman...he's a family man, i can't see him doing that

 

Okay if you believe what you just wrote that is the end of the story. Why are you still questioning us if you feel he wants to work on your marriage? Live in what you believe to be true.

[GirlStillStrong]

So in your opinion what is going on here?? Does he want to be with her??

 

Why don't you just ask him?

 

A person can want to "work on their marriage" AND want to be with someone other than their spouse, at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. But just think about it objectively: Would you rather "work" on something or have fun pursuing and dating someone else? New relationships are so much more exciting than committed, long-term relationships.

 

Let me tell you, men are not attracted to desperate, clingy women. Your description of the OW does not surprise me. She is going to college, working on herself, likely pretty independent and doesn't want to be bogged down or disturbed by someone else's drama. That is attractive to a potential mate.

[velvette]

Tell your H what you want and what that looks like.

 

 

Ask him what he wants.

 

 

If they are the same thing, go to counseling and figure out with a professionals help how to get past the stuff in the past and make that work.

 

 

If they are not the same thing, stay separated and file for D.

[Akashsingh]

Your husband needs intensive therapy. Unless he signs up for one and is committed to it , do t go back to him.

[merrmeade]

I remember being in a similar place. I obsessed with talking to the OW. As my brother's wife, she'd been like a sister; I'd loved and confided in her. She started changing well before d-day, expressing disapproval of me in subtle but increasingly audible ways while openly soliciting my H's involvement in her life. When I cornered her on the phone on d-day and made her admit her feelings, she flipped the conversation, putting my relationship skills and character on trial instead (she was an attorney).

 

Realizing they'd both betrayed and deceived me was like stepping on a mine and threw me into such shock and disorientation for months that I could not process her hostility and did not recognize her portrayal of me as a "vitriolic," vengeful "bitch" hell-bent on her destruction. I'd try to get her to talk, thinking that since she was outed, she'd be honest and forthcoming. She just stayed in self-protection mode, saying as little as possible and protecting my H at every turn, and treated me like a defective human being that would never appreciate my H as perfectly as she because I could not understand true friendship or love.

 

So I'm not saying this is what you would get if you actually managed to get the OW to pick up the phone. Probably you'd get something a lot colder and even more guarded. I mean, she's not even your friend. She'd probably be polite and try to get out of the conversation or at least avoid saying anything meaningful that could be held against either of them. At best, she'll hide and dodge your questions; at worst, she'll make you feel like more of a fool than you can conceive possible. You think it's bad what you're feeling now? Add to that how you'll feel after experiencing first-hand her all those things you've already attributed to her - education, poise, whatever. She might be gracious but withdrawn, or she could be cold, rude and disdainful. Either way, you'll get NO information and will come away feeling worse about yourself than you have ever felt in your life - far worse than you feel right now.

 

Now, do you really want to put yourself through that?

Edited November 11, 2014 by merrmeade

[confusedwifey81]

Ok so yesterday she wrote him on FB asking him how he was doing. he replied good, that he was still working on things and asked how she was. She said she was ok and that she hoped all was well and asked if she could talk to him later. he told her he didn't know if he would be able to. She replied that she just needed someone to talk to and that she missed talking to him. All he said in return was that he hoped all was well and she never responded. I think this is a good sign, he didnt seem open to talking to her and he didn't talk to her as requested. This is a good thing right? he really is trying to cut her off?

 

I have not confronted him with my snooping, I just want to trust him again and I think he really is making a change. They haven't seen each other in 2 months and it's been 1 mon since he told her his choice to stay with me.

 

I also have given up trying to talk to her, i see it will do me harm than good

Edited November 12, 2014 by confusedwifey81

[merrmeade]

Ok so yesterday she wrote him on FB asking him how he was doing. he replied good, that he was still working on things and asked how she was. She said she was ok and that she hoped all was well and asked if she could talk to him later. he told her he didn't know if he would be able to. She replied that she just needed someone to talk to and that she missed talking to him. All he said in return was that he hoped all was well and she never responded. I think this is a good sign, he didnt seem open to talking to her and he didn't talk to her as requested. This is a good thing right? he really is trying to cut her off?

 

I have not confronted him with my snooping, I just want to trust him again and I think he really is making a change. They haven't seen each other in 2 months and it's been 1 mon since he told her his choice to stay with me.

 

I also have given up trying to talk to her, i see it will do me harm than good

Glad you're redirecting your focus. Obsessing with contacting the OW was a virtual deadend if not a minefield. You sound less desperate, more tactical. This is good.

 

However, you're now at a point that I think many of us also get:

How to handle the info you've gathered in snoop mode and hold the spouse accountable

I'm not sure what the next step should be. Maybe others can weigh in here. But you definitely need to continue in the direction — but fast-track — of ordering priorities. You need to put yourself on top, first priority, with no qualms, no self-doubt, no question. You have been violated, discarded, overlooked and dismissed AND YOU ARE HIS WIFE.

 

So, you have two choices — real choices. Because you are in co-dependency mode, you are not considering the choice that actually looks at whether your H is the best thing for you. This choice includes gathering information about your rights and resources for the future. This choice ASSUMES that you and your child have the right to be respected, cared for and valued without compromise or apology. This choice holds your H accountable for past actions which betrayed and violated the sacred trust he made to you both when he married you and for future actions which must ensure that you are protected and supported in whatever self-improvement you initiate.

 

This is the same priority your H should have. That you are in stealth mode and there is still even a trail to follow is a HUGE problem. It's a problem that you allow it and that he continues creating it. He should NOT be contacting her at all.

 

Neither of you is working on the marriage; this is not reconcilation. But neither is it you, seeking and expecting the respect, honor and accountability that you deserve. YOU are his wife, and he is not honoring and cherishing you. You are settling for 10% of what you have a right to and even sound grateful for his begrudging half-step toward working on the marriage. No. He's in or he's out. And your bar for "being in" should now be as high as possible. You don't have to settle for his half-commitment, which is the worst thing you could be doing to yourself for the immediate and long-term future anyway. No. He should be groveling sorry for what he's put you through already and the fact that he's continued lying. Forget that you moved out first. He recommitted and had cheated before anyway.

 

Problem is: I don't think you're going to get from him more concession than what you've gotten. I don't think he's even close to the concept of remorse and you are enabling his delusions of entitlement.

Edited November 12, 2014 by merrmeade

[confusedwifey81]

Glad you're redirecting your focus. Obsessing with contacting the OW was a virtual deadend if not a minefield. You sound less desperate, more tactical. This is good.

 

However, you're now at a point that I think many of us also get:

How to handle the info you've gathered in snoop mode and hold the spouse accountable

I'm not sure what the next step should be. Maybe others can weigh in here. But you definitely need to continue in the direction — but fast-track — of ordering priorities. You need to put yourself on top, first priority, with no qualms, no self-doubt, no question. You have been violated, discarded, overlooked and dismissed AND YOU ARE HIS WIFE.

 

So, you have two choices — real choices. Because you are in co-dependency mode, you are not considering the choice that actually looks at whether your H is the best thing for you. This choice includes gathering information about your rights and resources for the future. This choice ASSUMES that you and your child have the right to be respected, cared for and valued without compromise or apology. This choice holds your H accountable for past actions which betrayed and violated the sacred trust he made to you both when he married you and for future actions which must ensure that you are protected and supported in whatever self-improvement you initiate.

 

This is the same priority your H should have. That you are in stealth mode and there is still even a trail to follow is a HUGE problem. It's a problem that you allow it and that he continues creating it. He should NOT be contacting her at all.

 

Neither of you is working on the marriage; this is not reconcilation. But neither is it you, seeking and expecting the respect, honor and accountability that you deserve. YOU are his wife, and he is not honoring and cherishing you. You are settling for 10% of what you have a right to and even sound grateful for his begrudging half-step toward working on the marriage. No. He's in or he's out. And your bar for "being in" should now be as high as possible. You don't have to settle for his half-commitment, which is the worst thing you could be doing to yourself for the immediate and long-term future anyway. No. He should be groveling sorry for what he's put you through already and the fact that he's continued lying. Forget that you moved out first. He recommitted and had cheated before anyway.

 

Problem is: I don't think you're going to get from him more concession than what you've gotten. I don't think he's even close to the concept of remorse and you are enabling his delusions of entitlement.

Thank you for your post. I am trying to figure out my next move from here, getting my ducks together I guess. I just thought that it was a good sign how he dismissed her. My H can be too nice but he didn't talk to her when asked. He has cut her off for the most part, is trying to get things straight at home so we can be a family again and agreed to MC, how is that not showing remorse? I'm just confused because he isn't sneaking around anymore so he must be sorry right?

[cif]

He probably called her that's why she didn't respond. Expect the affair to continue. Don't tell him you're snooping yet but continue to monitor.

 

ETA: Personally, after reading the entire thread, I'd spend my time looking for a guy to truly love, have babies/grow my family and spend the rest of my life with. Not a serial cheater pining over someone else. But that's just me.

Edited November 12, 2014 by cif

[confusedwifey81]

He probably called her that's why she didn't respond. Expect the affair to continue. Don't tell him you're snooping yet but continue to monitor.

 

ETA: Personally, after reading the entire thread, I'd spend my time looking for a guy to truly love, have babies/grow my family and spend the rest of my life with. Not a serial cheater pining over someone else. But that's just me.

thanks. I do know that he did not call her. Thanks for the advice, i am still figuring out my next move. But does anybody think this is a step in the right direction for him to leave her alone 100%?