The Ups and Downs

[KBarletta]

Hey KB. Sorry your morning started this way. I think you give her the papers you've filed. It's not about power or what you feel that shows in terms of her calling the shots. It's about setting yourself free. Send them. Today. She'll know they were drawn up before her note.

 

You're right. I know what I need to do. And I am in the process of doing it. It just hurts worse now.

 

The thing is, I have felt so out of control this entire time, like there was nothing I could do to regain control over the future of our relationship. Getting this paperwork together make me feel like I had a small amount of control again. And her sending that note made me feel like she took that away from me, like she stole the one thing I had that was mine to see through. At the same time, I still feel like SHE should be the one doing this. Again - what right does she have to ask me to do something that she wants done and I don't? It's maddening to think that this somehow makes sense to her, to ask this of me.

[81West]

I think this is part of what I was trying to express. There was a sense that you had attached emotions and expectations to the act of filing the paperwork that are really quite separate from the actual function of divorce filings. Like somebody who, for example, overeats from emotion you're using something that has a very narrow and specific purpose to fill a broader emotional and psychological need it can't possibly fill in the long run. This sets you up for the kind of vertigo and disappointment you're feeling today. And I'm so sorry you're feeling this way, and I totally get it.

 

Divorce papers are a legal filing to initiate the dissolution of a marriage. That's it. Until you have an actual need to take that step for reasons that have wholly to do with wanting or needing to take it, and nothing more and nothing less, I would leave it to her. What logic can she possibly offer that should see you do this? The only benefit I can see is perhaps the subtle idea of responsibility. She is responsible for the choice to end your marriage and in that it is her that broke the spirit and promise of your marriage. Perhaps the record SHOULD then show that you ended it with her for abandoning her implicit promise to do as much as she could to make it all work for life.

 

Either way I'd forget trying to wring peace or power from a pile of papers and just focus on dealing with the emotions as they are.

Edited March 9, 2015 by 81West

[KBarletta]

I think this is part of what I was trying to express. There was a sense that you had attached emotions and expectations to the act of filing the paperwork that are really quite separate from the actual function of divorce filings. Like somebody who, for example, overeats from emotion you're using something that has a very narrow and specific purpose to fill a broader emotional and psychological need it can't possibly fill in the long run. This sets you up for the kind of vertigo and disappointment you're feeling today. And I'm so sorry you're feeling this way, and I totally get it.

 

Divorce papers are a legal filing to initiate the dissolution of a marriage. That's it. Until you have an actual need to take that step for reasons that have wholly to do with wanting or needing to take it, and nothing more and nothing less, I would leave it to her. What logic can she possibly offer that should see you do this? I'd forget trying to wring peace or power from a pile of papers and just focus on dealing with the emotions as they are.

 

You are right. The fact is, though, I am torn about this, though.

 

On one hand, I did not want this four months ago, and I still don't. So why should I do it? On the other hand, if my marriage is over in my wife's eyes, wouldn't I want to get on with my life? So wouldn't I want the inevitable to happen sooner rather than later? Leaving it up to her will only delay things. Why prolong my suffering/limbo?

 

If I decide not to file, should I email her and say: "If this is what you want, then you should be the one filing, not me." Or should I ignore just her e-mail?

[kenmore]

First, I'm sorry you are going through this KBarletta. You have my deepest sympathies. I can completely relate as I'm going through the exact same thing as you, but a few months ahead of you.

 

At first I tried to reason with her. I couldn't believe she was throwing away our (I thought) wonderful marriage. We separated in early July, and at first it seemed temporary, but as time went by she got more and more negative about "us", finally deciding we're finished and pushed the divorce through. Now all of the papers are signed, everything has been filed, and it should be a "rubber stamp" in four or so more months.

 

Here's my advice to you: Since it seems you are fairly sure she is finished and does not want to continue, go ahead and file. I resisted and didn't want to do the paper signing, but eventually resigned myself that it's no use fighting it. Now, I'm in a form of agony having to continue being married to her for months more with no hope of reconciling. It's a form of torture. If it must end, the sooner the better!!! I want to move on with my life!

 

Your perspective will change. One day she will say something to you that will make you realize there is no hope, and when that day comes, the further you are along the path of ending it the better! Seriously, think about it: Do you really want to admit to your heart that it's over and can never be fixed, only to have to begin months of paperwork, waiting, not dating, not having sex (speaking for myself here, others may feel differently but I just won't while married), not being able to have your own new life? Trust me, it's just pure agony! Get on with it ASAP, you'll thank yourself later!

 

And no need to wait for her to file first just because she's the one who wants it. In the eyes of the court, it makes no difference who files first, and if it's you, that will send a message to both her and your own heart! That message is you too are done and wish to move on.

 

Ken

[81West]

You are right. The fact is, though, I am torn about this, though.

 

On one hand, I did not want this four months ago, and I still don't. So why should I do it? On the other hand, if my marriage is over in my wife's eyes, wouldn't I want to get on with my life? So wouldn't I want the inevitable to happen sooner rather than later? Leaving it up to her will only delay things. Why prolong my suffering/limbo?

 

If I decide not to file, should I email her and say: "If this is what you want, then you should be the one filing, not me." Or should I ignore just her e-mail?

 

I think it would help you to identify what the pain and suffering of limbo actually is. Is it not knowing exactly what the future will be and feeling a need to steer your own ship and begin the journey even if it is on a course you didn't choose? Or is it more the painful awareness and closeness of a sense of loss, or failure, or rejection, or other common responses to the kind of trauma you're experiencing - that you are expecting to alleviate with filing for divorce. If it is the former, filing the paperwork is a action that 'matches' the need. If it is the latter, you risk being left with the emotions you still have with the added burden of tangents of self doubt and resentment for pushing ahead with something you didn't choose - and now in a timeframe that doesn't even feel completely like your choice.

 

If you can truly separate most of your emotions and expectations from the act of filing and truly feel ready to take a step toward whatever is next, you are probably ready to file. If you're not sure, you can delay until you are sure this is the step you want to take for yourself and yourself only. You could tell her you had previously drawn up paperwork with an attorney but have decided not to file right now. You reserve your right to do so at any time in the future but feel no obligation to do so at present. You could tell her that if she decides to file you won't fight it and will move expediently to complete your end of things in that event.

[chew123]

KB,

 

Loss of control sucks. But thats the way it is. We can't control what other people do, only what we do. I would file, whether she asks for it or not at this point does not matter, the only way to move forward is to proceed with the divorce.

 

Its hard to get used to this, but why do we even want a person that does not want us? Took me a while but I realize it is my wife's loss. I truly loved her and would have done anything for her and she through me away. Her loss. Sounds like you situation is similar. She does not deserve you at this point. File, divorce her, and live your life.

[KBarletta]

One day she will say something to you that will make you realize there is no hope, and when that day comes, the further you are along the path of ending it the better!

 

Actually, I think today was that day. She wants me to file, which to me means that she sees no hope. What has changed in the past four months to allow her to reach that conclusion, I have no idea.

 

But instead of using the past four months to file and get on with it, she's instead asked me to do it.

 

That's pretty much it, as far as I can see. She may still be GIGS and looking at things through rose-colored glasses, but even so I doubt I could trust her again even if some day she did come back and realize her mistake.

[KBarletta]

I think it would help you to identify what the pain and suffering of limbo actually is. Is it not knowing exactly what the future will be and feeling a need to steer your own ship and begin the journey even if it is on a course you didn't choose? Or is it more the painful awareness and closeness of a sense of loss, or failure, or rejection, or other common responses to the kind of trauma you're experiencing - that you are expecting to alleviate with filing for divorce. If it is the former, filing the paperwork is a action that 'matches' the need. If it is the latter, you risk being left with the emotions you still have with the added burden of tangents of self doubt and resentment for pushing ahead with something you didn't choose - and now in a timeframe that doesn't even feel completely like your choice.

 

I think it's a bit of a mix of the two, TBH. But more the former. I am feeling a lot of the pain of the latter today, but for the most part my recent feelings have been the need to control my own destiny and move forward, even if it's not what I wanted.

 

I will be seeing my therapist in a few days, then meeting with my attorney about a week after that. After those meetings are through I should have a much better idea of where I am headed.

 

For now, I am going to respond to my wife's email by simply saying that I have already begun the process and leave it at that. I figure If she wants to know more details, she can ask.

[81West]

I think it's a bit of a mix of the two, TBH. But more the former. I am feeling a lot of the pain of the latter today, but for the most part my recent feelings have been the need to control my own destiny and move forward, even if it's not what I wanted.

 

I will be seeing my therapist in a few days, then meeting with my attorney about a week after that. After those meetings are through I should have a much better idea of where I am headed.

 

For now, I am going to respond to my wife's email by simply saying that I have already begun the process and leave it at that. I figure If she wants to know more details, she can ask.

 

I think that's a great plan and approach. It may just be a matter of hours or days or weeks before filing feels firmly like the right thing in your heart and your mind and your gut. There is a clarity that comes with the necessary emotional work. Really all you need is a true acceptance, however reluctant, however regretful, and a genuine desire to move to the next stage. Everybody deserves somebody who would never choose to let them go if there was any other choice. Everybody. In that, she has let you down. If you can find true acceptance and a genuine belief that she represents a compromise that you just do not have to make in life, filing is the natural next step. Standing up for yourself from a place that you truly believe will be it's own reward, worth a brief wait, and will get you on a solid footing to continue healing.

[KBarletta]

I think that's a great plan and approach. It may just be a matter of hours or days or weeks before filing feels firmly like the right thing in your heart and your mind and your gut. There is a clarity that comes with the necessary emotional work. Really all you need is a true acceptance, however reluctant, however regretful, and a genuine desire to move to the next stage. Everybody deserves somebody who would never choose to let them go if there was any other choice. Everybody. In that, she has let you down. If you can find true acceptance and a genuine belief that she represents a compromise that you just do not have to make in life, filing is the natural next step. Standing up for yourself from a place that you truly believe will be it's own reward, worth a brief wait, and will get you on a solid footing to continue healing.

 

Thanks 81West. I truly appreciate your contributions to this discussion. Very helpful, thanks for taking the time.

 

In the end, there is one simple fact that makes this harder and is the ONLY stumbling block to me filing, moving on, starting my new life and not looking back. That is this: I am still in love with my wife. I know that does not make me unique by any stretch. But the bottom line feeling I have for her - even through all of this s*** she has put me through, even today when I want to hate her - is that I completely love her. Still.

 

Not sure when that will pass. If ever.

[Decisiontomake]

Hey KB. Is it love you have for your wife of an overwhelming desire to return to the status quo and comfort of your marriage? I ask this gently and know the two are not mutually exclusive. It's a question I asked of my H recently as it's hard to fathom how he could still love me with the limbo I have instigated over the past ten months. Hope you don't mind me posing this question to you as food for thought.

[kenmore]

Actually, I think today was that day. She wants me to file, which to me means that she sees no hope. What has changed in the past four months to allow her to reach that conclusion, I have no idea.

 

SAME!!!

 

What changed? Answer, nothing! They felt this way all along, they were just too pussy to say so.

 

Also in your case, her not filing? Too pussy.

 

All that in light, it costs the same to file first or later. If you can't afford it, the court will waive it, either way. There is absolutely no difference who files first, other than what you will be called in the case (in Ca, it's petitioner and respondent.)

 

Again, I say get on with it. Take the upper hand, you will feel so much better with it also!

 

Ken

[darkbloom]

Thanks 81West. I truly appreciate your contributions to this discussion. Very helpful, thanks for taking the time.

 

In the end, there is one simple fact that makes this harder and is the ONLY stumbling block to me filing, moving on, starting my new life and not looking back. That is this: I am still in love with my wife. I know that does not make me unique by any stretch. But the bottom line feeling I have for her - even through all of this s*** she has put me through, even today when I want to hate her - is that I completely love her. Still.

 

Not sure when that will pass. If ever.

 

That's the killer. I feel the exact same way. Even through the bull**** and the pain, it's still there. I have knocked him off his pedestal. But I still love him and want the best for him. How do you let go of that love? Does it just disappear one day? The hope combined with still loving him kills me.

[kenmore]

Hey KB. Is it love you have for your wife of an overwhelming desire to return to the status quo and comfort of your marriage? I ask this gently and know the two are not mutually exclusive. It's a question I asked of my H recently as it's hard to fathom how he could still love me with the limbo I have instigated over the past ten months. Hope you don't mind me posing this question to you as food for thought.

 

DTM, your question applies to me, so I'll answer too. In my mind, love knows no time limit, no distance limit and no real hurt limit. It shouldn't have a financial limit either, but in our case it does...that is if I believe what she says.

 

I can see a hurt limit, and I suppose there is one and maybe I reached mine finally. It took forever! What it took was the Friday before our 5th wedding anniversary (which was the following Monday) she texted me saying stop sending her cards and gifts. Well, I had been doing so right along at Christmas, Birthdays etc. She chose the last special occasion to tell me that, and of course the most poignant. She also chose that day to tell me that everything I thought was hope (her inviting me to dinner and singing happy birthday to me on my birthday, her telling me Christmas eve that she wasn't sure she wants a divorce etc) was all a lie, and she was just being "nice"! That day was my turning point. Feb 20, 2015.

 

But until that day, there was nothing anyone could do that would make me not love her, and I still do and always will. My heart is blocked now, that's all, it's not empty.

 

My guess is your husband still truly loves you and (no offense), you are a fool to just toss that away unless there is a damned good reason to, such as infidelity, abuse or something of that nature. I don't know your specifics, but unconditional love like that does not just happen every day. It's really special, and to throw it out is just stupid!

 

I just wish there were another person in my wife's life who she trusted to guide her who would tell her that, but she listens to no-one. Even though I know she still loves me and wants me, and there is no good reason to end our lives together, she will do it because she's pig-headed and once she makes up her mind, that's it. So be it.

 

I need to go peruse your old posts, but I have to wake up early tomorrow and it's bed time here. I'll take a look in the future, but if you are looking for advice as your screen-name suggests, my advice is don't be a f*cking idiot! Don't throw away love for ego. WTF Girl??!!

[kenmore]

That's the killer. I feel the exact same way. Even through the bull**** and the pain, it's still there. I have knocked him off his pedestal. But I still love him and want the best for him. How do you let go of that love? Does it just disappear one day? The hope combined with still loving him kills me.

 

Hugs!!!!!!

[KBarletta]

Hey KB. Is it love you have for your wife of an overwhelming desire to return to the status quo and comfort of your marriage? I ask this gently and know the two are not mutually exclusive. It's a question I asked of my H recently as it's hard to fathom how he could still love me with the limbo I have instigated over the past ten months. Hope you don't mind me posing this question to you as food for thought.

 

Actually I have no real desire to return to the status quo, and am not even sure I would want her back if she asked.

 

But do I still love her? Completely. It is the first thought I have when I think of her, even now, and believe me there is no confusing it.

[KBarletta]

That's the killer. I feel the exact same way. Even through the bull**** and the pain, it's still there. I have knocked him off his pedestal. But I still love him and want the best for him. How do you let go of that love? Does it just disappear one day? The hope combined with still loving him kills me.

 

I am with you, darkbloom. I do not have her on a pedestal, even though I once did. I realize after all this that she has been manipulative and selfish, I know she has lied to me or at least deliberately kept important things from me, and worst of all, she has taken the life we had for 10 years and left it sitting by the side of a road in a scrap heap like it's a piece of garbage, without a word.

 

But somehow I still love her. What it will take to get past that I don't know, but for me it usually takes being serious about someone new before I can completely get over what was there before. That may sound strange, but it's kind of like replacing a picture in a frame. The old one stays there until it is replaced with a new image. I don't have that new image yet.

[81West]

Thanks 81West. I truly appreciate your contributions to this discussion. Very helpful, thanks for taking the time.

 

In the end, there is one simple fact that makes this harder and is the ONLY stumbling block to me filing, moving on, starting my new life and not looking back. That is this: I am still in love with my wife. I know that does not make me unique by any stretch. But the bottom line feeling I have for her - even through all of this s*** she has put me through, even today when I want to hate her - is that I completely love her. Still.

 

Not sure when that will pass. If ever.

 

Thanks KB. It means a lot to me that I can add something worthwhile to you. Thanks for taking a moment to say so.

 

It's brutally hard when loving someone must coexist with the reality that you have to let them go. For a time, the farther they drift away the closer it all feels. It's a tangle of paradoxes. Love, that beautiful and powerful place of joy and safety, has twisted around on itself and left you feeling hollow, alone, unwanted and defeated. All there is for now is the intellectual knowledge that love isn't supposed to be that, and that you and your heart and your hopes deserve something much more than is on offer. Nobody ever plans or expects to be here, and it can feel so bewildering. For that I guess we need a certain blind trust in the future and the acceptance that it is the painful parts of life that give the happy ones their power and meaning. Pain and happiness need each other for either to make sense and this situation is just something we have to navigate through to get to the next place.

 

That said, nothing would be lost or surrendered if you told your wife you still love her. In fact it might provide some relief to do so. Not with any expectations or hopes of a change in the course of things but because it's the truth and should be heard. You love her, still, and she is undoing your life together. And it's excruciating. It's part of this story and there is no need to allow it to pushed off to the endnotes. More paradox: allowing yourself to be vulnerable to somebody is a way of taking some control.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 81West

[KBarletta]

That said, nothing would be lost or surrendered if you told your wife you still love her. In fact it might provide some relief to do so. Not with any expectations or hopes of a change in the course of things but because it's the truth and should be heard. You love her, still, and she is undoing your life together. And it's excruciating. It's part of this story and there is no need to allow it to pushed off to the endnotes. More paradox: allowing yourself to be vulnerable to somebody is a way of taking some control.

 

Thanks. ... I would do this, if not for the fact that the very last contact my wife and I had in the context of our relationship was this: The day we parted for good (which was about two weeks after she announced her decision to leave) happened to also be her birthday. This was our last day together as a "couple," and I knew it would be. I left her a card that said only this: "I love you, and I always will."

 

I got no response of any kind then, or at any time since then. She has been as cold as ice since that day.

 

So, I feel like telling her again would be repeating the same thing, when I already got the message across at what, for me, was the right moment.

[KBarletta]

Hi again all.

 

Going to shift gears to an earlier topic just to get this out there ...

 

I had a 1.5-hour lunch today with my longtime female friend (the OW mentioned several posts up). It was great. We laughed, never had a lull in the conversation, she looked GREAT. I left wanting more. I felt like I could have talked to her for 10 hours without running out of fun conversation. It was good in that it reminded me that I can be with other women and really enjoy myself, despite all that is going on. I didn't think of my wife the entire time we were together.

 

That said, I did NOT ask her out, and in fact did not tell her about me and my wife. It just didn't seem like the right time. So I just let us be together as friends and have fun. I did, however, mention several upcoming group events that I thought she might enjoy and she will be attending several of them. So I'll get a chance to see her again soon in a friendly group setting and try to push for more time together.

 

It was almost like therapy seeing her and realizing, "Yes, I am attracted to her, I feel comfortable around her, and I could see myself with her some day." Even if nothing happens, coming to that conclusion in the midst of all this chaos seemed like a big step forward.

[kenmore]

Hey KB, that's awesome!!

 

Don't rush anything is my advice, but I think it's great that you had that vacation from your pain! I have been having some as well.

 

Last Sat, I invited a female client I had never met in person to lunch to discuss her insurance. I had one of the best times I have had in months spending time with her! She was exceptional company, pretty, shapely, we had a good lunch, I sold her two policies and have follow-up items. Certainly worth the $20 it cost me! (did I mention she was a cheap date?) lol

 

Don't get me wrong, she's strictly off limits and I know this (have all along), but that does not change the fact that it was a wonderful experience for me. Just like you said, it took my mind off my pain and let me realize there is enjoyable life after a breakup. Also, they teach us in training (and rightly so) that this business is not just about selling, it's very social. It's about getting to know your client, so I was just doing my job.

 

I'm doing the same next week with another woman I have never met face to face yet.

 

Add to that that I have been working with a Realtor recently, and his two apprentices are a couple of very pretty ladies in the 26-30 year old range. WAY too young for me and again, strictly off limits, but spending entire afternoons with one or the other in an empty "open house", getting to know them better and seeing they are liking me more as I like them more is simply a pleasure! For the time being, it takes my mind off of my old relationship.

 

As time goes by, things will come up. I don't know how you feel, but I won't date while I'm married just for my own reasons; but once that gavel comes down (and I know it's not that dramatic), things will be completely different in my mind. My wife and I are done now, I accept that. Once the legal shackle is off, there will be nothing left at all, and I'm gonna move! All I can suggest now is that you enjoy what you can get while it fits your expectations of yourself and doesn't hurt anyone else.

 

I will say be careful with this woman, because there is potential there to hurt her as you know. Take it so slow...hardly moving if it is at all for awhile. Make sure you have a firm grip on where your relationship with your wife is going and when it will get there before you push at all. Again, my advice. You're a grown man, do as you feel is right.

 

But do enjoy yourself. That's all you have left!

 

Ken

[darkbloom]

KB,

 

Your story gives me hope. I finally read your entire thread with all of the comments today. I think you have been progressing wonderfully in your healing and your insights make me feel better. You are able articulately express what I am feeling. We are in very different situations but I feel like we are on the same page emotionally.

 

Thank you for your posts and your honesty.

 

DB

[81West]

Yay KB! And again, I admire your patient and measured approach. Very wise and perceptive.

[KBarletta]

Thanks for all the encouragement and advice, everyone. My plan is to take every step of this journey slowly and deliberately. In fact, I can't do it any other way that makes sense. So I have no expectations, about anything. But it's good to remember that I have other relationships and other beautiful women who enjoy my company, even if it's just over lunch or a drink once or twice a month. For now, that is enough for me, and honestly probably all I can handle emotionally anyway.

 

Other than that, focusing on my daughter and looking for a new place to live have taken up a lot of my time. Looking for a new place to live is something that excites me because it's totally new and will be 100 percent my decision (with input from daughter of course). Makes me feel in control of my own destiny, which as those who have been following this thread know is something that is important to me.

[KBarletta]

Hi again all. Just posting to get some thoughts out that have been on my mind and by way of a quick update on two issues:

 

- Over the weekend I did meet up again with the new OW, at a group event that I invited her to last week. She actually made a special effort to come to the event and reached out to me specifically when she arrived. It made me feel good that someone who I would consider kind of "out of my league" and who has 100 different options of things to do and people to spend time with made a special effort to see me. We had some laughs, and she ended up leaving for another event for an hour or so, then returning at a time when she knew I would be the only one left there. I thought that was a good sign. Nothing happened other than us having a good time, but at least she's not blowing me off. (My self esteem has taken a bit of a hit in this situation, so I didn't really expect a beautiful, intelligent, successful woman to actually want to spend time with me at this point. I expected some excuse as to why she "had to go" but it didn't come.)

 

- Also continuing to search for new places to live. At the moment, my daughter is attending school in the neighborhood where I live, where she and my WW used to live with me. It is a good school, probably the best in the immediate area. However, my wife has not been shy about her desire to move at the end of the school year. I am wondering if I should look for homes in the local area or expand my search to other places that aren't so loaded down with memories. On the one hand, it would allow my daughter to continue attending school with her friends (the only school she has ever attended) if my wife changes her mind and decides not to move away. But on the other hand, it would mean I would be staying in the area for a "what if" and would severely limit my home search options, not to mention putting me in a neighborhood filled with memories of my WW. I live in a big city with a lot of nice neighborhoods and wouldn't mind branching out in my search.