The Ups and Downs

[Esraem]

Hey KB.

 

I feel for you. You are so ready to move on, but that shows you are moving on without her and she doesnt want you too. She wants to be in control and she knows your daughter is the lever.

 

Keep your head up and breathe

[KBarletta]

Alright kb,

 

It's going to work itself out. I would just state simply to your wife that you can no longer afford the house you are in on your salary alone. Your compromise is the house you are now trying to buy that is in your price range. As for your daughter's school, I would ask her how she intends to work out the details of your daughter staying in her current school. Is she going to drive her every morning, pick her up, etc. I wouldn't remind her of what she said when she was leaving because that could turn into a fight. And you don't want her to follow through with it. I would make it seem like you are considering her idea of keeping your daughter in her current school and remain firm on your housing decision. That way logically, your wife will reach the same conclusion as you about the schooling.

 

It's too bad you can't just look your wife in the eye and say: "this was your decision to move out, your decision to alter our living arrangement, your decision that is forcing me to do what I don't want to do. Figure it out yourself."

 

Remain strong KB. Your track record for surviving bad days is 100%.

 

The truth is, the longer my daughter remains in her current school, the longer she is connected to me, legally, which only works in my favor in the end. If that means I have to pick her up and drop her off every day, I am willing to do that.

 

I think the other thing that bothers me about this is that it indicates that my wife has re-considered one of the main driving forces behind her decision to leave. And that has me rethinking everything else she said, including her feelings for me. It's opened up a can of worms that I have been trying to shut for months, and largely succeeding until today. Now my head is swimming with "what ifs" again.

 

I appreciate the replies, all, especially this one, which I will have to remember ...

 

Your track record for surviving bad days is 100%

[chew123]

KB,

 

One thing I have realized about my ex through this whole thing is that she has no idea what she really wants. Well at first she really seemed to know she wanted me out of her life. Now I think she is even beginning to question that.

 

People who leave a marriage without thinking of the possible negative consequences on themselves, their children and their loved ones are not to be trusted.

 

I am sorry you and your daughter have to go through this. But don't expect any rational decision making from her, she probably has no idea what she wants.

[Esraem]

Well it is the GIG syndrome. They believe that it has to be better until they cross the fence, cross a bridge, etc. Then they burn the bridge and find out the grass is dead and they look back across at the manicured lawn.

 

 

Its mine as well. I asked her what her plans were if she had my daughter as she is currently unemployed. Her response was that she doesnt have an answer yet, but she said I guess get a full time job and a cheap place for the two of them. It is the OM that has fueled it, plus her depression/BPD. She is just letting her emotions control the situation and not her head. I know there is a part of her that doesnt want to leave but then Mr. Hyde is there as well.

[KBarletta]

It's too bad you can't just look your wife in the eye and say: "this was your decision to move out, your decision to alter our living arrangement, your decision that is forcing me to do what I don't want to do. Figure it out yourself."

 

^^The truth is that if not for the fact that I know this is what my daughter ultimately wants, I would say that to her. But if my daughter doesn't want to change schools (which I have known since day one) I'll move heaven and earth to make it happen, because she is my top priority.

 

To make a bad day worse, I lucked (??) Into seeing my wife today after work when she dropped off some of our daughter's stuff at my house. First time I've seen her face in three months. Lucky me!!!

[Esraem]

You did have a bad day! Well you made it through and it can't get much worse.

[kenmore]

Hey KB, since your daughter is already in that school and since all of you now seem to want her in it next year, you should have a meeting with the school administrator about a transfer. They often grant inter- and intra- district transfers under certain circumstances, and the facts that she is there and both you and your wife want her to continue to be would be powerful motivators. It's certainly worth a look.

 

I did hear from my wife, actually I initiated the convo by texting her that I forgot my cast iron skillets in the drawer under the oven, and saying I was planning with her daughter to take her daughter out to do something fun (a movie, a day at the beach with a friend, Boomers etc.) and maybe when I picked her up, I could get the skillets. Her response was no way can I take her daughter to do anything, it would be too painful for both of them, and the skillets are at her ex's house with a few other items of mine (he offered to store them for me.)

 

When I said that I'd respect her boundaries but to please tell her daughter that she's not allowing it so she doesn't think I don't care enough about her to do something with her and that I love her like my own daughter, her reply was leave them alone and lose her number. That was the last thing said this morning.

 

So there it is. After months, she's more angry than ever, she won't allow me to see my SD at all, and she want's no part of even talking to me.

 

As hurtful as all that is, and in my mind as unnecessary as it was, it does have one huge advantage over what you guys seem to be saying and thinking: I know exactly where I stand and how it is. There's no ambiguity, no "false hopes", no reason whatsoever to concern myself about her or anything regarding "us" because the only "us" there is anymore are our taxes and our divorce, which she told me will be Jul 8. Why she knows this and I don't is somewhat of a mystery to me. I guess I'm out of the loop regarding our divorce too. I guess the courts don't consider me important enough to notify. I'm just the respondent and the man.

 

Obviously I can't know what's on the minds of your wife, Chews nor Esraem's, and it's not my place to try to tell you all how to think, BUT my advice to you all is to stop tormenting yourselves. Embrace the done-ness of it and do your best never to go to the place where they may come running back. If they do, then great! If not, which is by far the more likely scenario, the sooner you accept it, the sooner you will heal. I know that's easier said than done though...except in my case.

 

Ken

[chew123]

Ken,

 

Don't worry, I agree and know its over. Wouldn't take her back even if she did try to come back.

[KBarletta]

Thanks guys.

 

Ken, I wouldn't say I have any hope, false or otherwise, of my wife ever returning. Even if she did, I wouldn't trust that it would last or that she would be faithful, so as far as that goes, I know where I stand, not necessarily because of her but because of me.

 

What I feel isn't really any kind of misplaced hope, but more just a feeling of a broken future. I used to know what the future was, or at least I thought I did. Having lost that is really the source of my current pain, and it's really easy to be angry with my wife for taking that away, even though I don't want it back. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

I feel for you, Ken, on the issue with your daughter. I think it's pretty selfish and presumptuous of your EW to deny you a relationship with your SD. Hopefully that will change, especially if you and your SD both want it to.

 

My daughter is soon to be 14. She still has no cell phone of her own, so I think that my next big gift to her will be to give her a phone on my plan. Partly this would be so that she and I can talk without my wife being the go-between all the time. It will be better for everyone involved, in my opinion, with the possible exception of my wife losing her last remaining bit of power over me.

[Esraem]

 

Obviously I can't know what's on the minds of your wife, Chews nor Esraem's, and it's not my place to try to tell you all how to think, BUT my advice to you all is to stop tormenting yourselves. Embrace the done-ness of it and do your best never to go to the place where they may come running back. If they do, then great! If not, which is by far the more likely scenario, the sooner you accept it, the sooner you will heal. I know that's easier said than done though...except in my case.

 

Ken

 

You know everyday I get closer and closer to that realization.

[kenmore]

What I feel isn't really any kind of misplaced hope, but more just a feeling of a broken future. I used to know what the future was, or at least I thought I did. Having lost that is really the source of my current pain, and it's really easy to be angry with my wife for taking that away, even though I don't want it back. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

Oh it makes sense and I feel the exact same way!

 

I think it's pretty selfish and presumptuous of your EW to deny you a relationship with your SD.

 

Me too!

 

My daughter is soon to be 14. She still has no cell phone of her own, so I think that my next big gift to her will be to give her a phone on my plan. Partly this would be so that she and I can talk without my wife being the go-between all the time. It will be better for everyone involved, in my opinion, with the possible exception of my wife losing her last remaining bit of power over me.

 

That's a really good idea. It will make her furious!

 

Ken

[KBarletta]

That's a really good idea. It will make her furious!

 

It's funny, Ken - my motivation is not to upset my wife, but just to establish that my daughter and I have a right to communicate without my wife standing in the way all the time, which is likely to upset her anyway, because it is really the only excuse we would have to communicate once the D is final and the house is sold.

[chew123]

Phone is a great idea. If your wife is upset too bad. That is obviously not your planl. And take it from me , upsetting them out of spite is not a worthwhile goal. Just causes more problems.

 

Getting her out of your life and keeping in touch with daughter, those are the goals.

[KBarletta]

Phone is a great idea. If your wife is upset too bad. That is obviously not your planl. And take it from me , upsetting them out of spite is not a worthwhile goal. Just causes more problems.

 

Getting her out of your life and keeping in touch with daughter, those are the goals.

 

True - and the fact is that if I wanted to upset my wife, I have had many more opportunities to do so in the past six months, all of which I have deliberately passed up. The idea of her being upset actually still upsets me quite a bit, so I would be hurting myself by extension anyway. I am getting past that point (where I care whether she is upset) but that's a relatively recent development.

Edited May 11, 2015 by KBarletta

[kenmore]

Honestly, I phrased my comment vaguely on purpose because though I knew making her mad isn't your goal as it is not mine, there's a part of us that knows it's inevitable anyway, so you may as well do what you think is in your own best interests. If it's not the phone, it will be something else. Maybe I'm projecting too much, but I suspect that since emotions run high in any breakup, anger will surface. You may as well choose the subject.

 

I also feel you getting your daughter a phone is a good idea.

 

Give it to her as a birthday gift or graduation gift. I guess she's in 9th grade this year? When the semester is out is a perfect time, especially since she will be spending more time out with friends and less time home with mom.

 

I have decided what I'm going to do. I will respect my wife's wishes obviously, since I have no legal say, she's her daughter and she's living under her roof; but I will stay in communication with my SD via phone / text. I won't make a big deal out of her mother's decision, but I will make sure she knows (in a subtle way) so she doesn't think I don't want to see her. This may put her mom in a bad light, but hey, it was the decision she made; once again with no regard to anyone's feelings but her own, so she has to live with the reaction.

 

I did get my notification about the final date of our marriage: Jul 8th. Symbolically, the exact date I moved out last year. I don't know if that's a coincidence or if my wife and her paralegal planned it that way, but it's as fitting as any. Perhaps more ironically, the judgement which was determined on April 27th is the day before the wedding anniversary of my first wife and I. It is almost like fate saying "this marriage will end for sure on this date" in time for my original anniversary. Perhaps that's overly dramatic, but I like to think my deceased wife had a hand in that!

 

Ken

[KBarletta]

Honestly, I phrased my comment vaguely on purpose because though I knew making her mad isn't your goal as it is not mine, there's a part of us that knows it's inevitable anyway, so you may as well do what you think is in your own best interests. If it's not the phone, it will be something else. Maybe I'm projecting too much, but I suspect that since emotions run high in any breakup, anger will surface. You may as well choose the subject.

 

I also feel you getting your daughter a phone is a good idea.

 

Give it to her as a birthday gift or graduation gift. I guess she's in 9th grade this year? When the semester is out is a perfect time, especially since she will be spending more time out with friends and less time home with mom.

 

I have decided what I'm going to do. I will respect my wife's wishes obviously, since I have no legal say, she's her daughter and she's living under her roof; but I will stay in communication with my SD via phone / text. I won't make a big deal out of her mother's decision, but I will make sure she knows (in a subtle way) so she doesn't think I don't want to see her. This may put her mom in a bad light, but hey, it was the decision she made; once again with no regard to anyone's feelings but her own, so she has to live with the reaction.

 

I did get my notification about the final date of our marriage: Jul 8th. Symbolically, the exact date I moved out last year. I don't know if that's a coincidence or if my wife and her paralegal planned it that way, but it's as fitting as any. Perhaps more ironically, the judgement which was determined on April 27th is the day before the wedding anniversary of my first wife and I. It is almost like fate saying "this marriage will end for sure on this date" in time for my original anniversary. Perhaps that's overly dramatic, but I like to think my deceased wife had a hand in that!

 

Ken

 

Ken, I suspect that your ex wife's decision to try to cut you out of your SD's life is just your ex's own bitterness coming out temporarily, and that her position will soften over time, especially if your SD has anything to say about it. I am lucky in that sense, in that my wife recognizes that doing that would only harm her daughter and likely make my wife out to be the bad guy for a good long time, which I know she does not want.

 

The fact is, giving my daughter the phone will be good for me and her, and also for my wife. That way she can reach her daughter when they are apart without having to go through third parties. Also, she can call her when I am with her without having to speak to me. That's good news for both of us, IMO.

[KBarletta]

Hi again all. Just a quick update today. Feeling anxious as everything seems to be coming to a head at once. My wife has signed the separation agreement giving me the house and basically dividing everything else evenly, which is exactly what I wanted. Still working on finalizing the new home purchase and getting the old house ready to sell. That is going to be a lot of work, but is going to give me something else to focus on, which is good.

 

I still have to resolve the school situation, and I would like to do it soon. I am leaning toward having a heart to heart talk with my daughter asking her what she wants, since it is her schooling that is at issue, and I want her to have a major say in what we end up doing. Does that make sense to everyone? Since ultimately it seems to be up to me to figure this out (since my wife has made it clear what she wants, which is the opposite of what she wanted six months ago) and put it in motion. The other issue here is this: I spoke to my attorney, and since my wife no longer lives in this district and I do, the only way my daughter can stay in her current school is if my wife agrees to name me as a legal guardian. And if that happens, she can't legally keep me and my daughter apart even if she wanted to. This could get interesting.

[Esraem]

That would be awesome for you. You deserve it.

[KBarletta]

Just a quick update - six months today since my wife moved out. Not really feeling upset about it, seems like just another day.

 

I again ran into my brother in law this weekend, for the second time in three weeks. He was without his wife (my STBX's sister) this time so we were able to talk candidly for the first time. I didn't ask any questions about my wife, just about him and his family. I didn't tell him much about my life, except what he already knew, that I missed my wife and wished things could have been different. I told him how much I missed him, and we hugged, and he started to open up about things without me even asking. He told me that my STBX mother in law has hardly spoken to my wife since she left me, because my MIL believes she's made a huge mistake and screwed up her life and her daughter's life by leaving. Apparently other family members have told her the same, including him. I stopped him in the middle of him telling me these things because it was upsetting me and I told him it wasn't going to change anything, but I did get to hear that much. He repeated how much he missed me, I said the same and we went our separate ways after about 15 minutes of conversation.

 

I know my wife - and how stubborn she is - and that other people telling her she's made a mistake is actually only going to make her more determined to prove them wrong. But - again - it is good to know that her family is standing up for me a little bit, even though as I said it is not going to change anything. On the one hand it makes me feel sad that my wife is facing such criticism from her own family members, but on the other it's good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks she's made a mistake.

[chew123]

KB,

 

It is small consolation but it is consolation none the less. It somewhat validates your view of the situation. Odds are nothing you could have done to stop her from leaving.

 

I know my wife has heard the same from her family. No one will make her change her mind, whatever is left of it. lol

 

One thing though, the fact that the family is sticking up for you probably means she has not been lying or badmouthing you. From what I know mine has not either. Makes me think they know the problem is of their own making. And at least they are not trashing us on the way out.

 

Like I said, small consolation.

[KBarletta]

KB,

 

It is small consolation but it is consolation none the less. It somewhat validates your view of the situation. Odds are nothing you could have done to stop her from leaving.

 

I know my wife has heard the same from her family. No one will make her change her mind, whatever is left of it. lol

 

One thing though, the fact that the family is sticking up for you probably means she has not been lying or badmouthing you. From what I know mine has not either. Makes me think they know the problem is of their own making. And at least they are not trashing us on the way out.

 

Like I said, small consolation.

 

 

You're right, chew, it's small consolation, but it does feel good to know that others don't see me as some kind of bad guy.

 

Still, I suspect that the reason my wife has not badmouthed me to her own family is because of my daughter, not necessarily any recognition that she's at fault or any respect for me necessarily. My wife knows that anything bad she says about me could get back to our daughter, and I know she doesn't want that. I've never uttered one negative word about my wife with our daughter around either, though I have been tempted.

[starglider]

Dear KB

 

I've followed your thread and am touched by your honesty, your instincts to do the right thing for your step-daughter, and your ability to keep things together despite life throwing you such a curve-ball through your wife's actions.

 

Listening to your honesty with your brother-in-law about missing your W, I find it refreshing that you didn't follow the 180 script of saying you were doing great and loving life. I know these Love Shack boards are all about the 180.

 

When I read your comments, I'm struck by the thought you may be a person who naturally wants to "stand" in your marriage. (That doesn't mean putting up with terrible treatment or being a doormat - none of which you've done. It actually means working on the marriage alone/working on yourself).

 

You realize your wife's actions are out of your control and it does sound like she is going through a midlife crisis. But while you wisely aren't planning or hoping that she'll come around (not to mention the hurt she has caused you and your entire family/extended family), it seems as though MLCs are like a raging fever/illness and some people come back to their senses in a year or two and some are lucky enough to have partners who did not respond to their radical personality/behavior shift with scorched earth tactics. Some stories have growth and reconciliation in the final chapter where the Midlife Crisis Spouse is lucky to have the chance to return with the spouse who "stood."

 

If you want to read more about midlife crises and the concept of standing in a marriage, check out the articles listing on this website.

 

It is just another point of view to the 180 advice and the "never take her back no matter what" viewpoint, which is understandable too. You seem like a person who considers a lot of points of view, so it could be food for thought in your journey.

 

Midlife Crisis: How Do You Stand?

 

And here are the free articles on midlife crisis that I think are excellent:

 

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/midlife-crisis-resources-at-the-heros-spouse/

 

(Personally, I can't tell if I'm going through a midlife crisis myself or waking up to face my unhealthy codependent marriage, but that is another story. I'm still searching for answers)

 

Good luck. I hope your daughter stays in the same school - that is a promising detail for her sake, I hope she is not whisked away out of state by her mother. And the fact that her mother is thinking more clearly about D's well-being is encouraging too.

[chew123]

Starglider,

 

I checked out the links on standing for your marriage and working on it on your own. While I respect that there are many ways to react when your spouse leaves, "standing" for your marriage while they have an affair, patiently waiting for them to come back to you does not sound reasonable.

 

Sacrificing years of your life waiting for a spouse who has made it clear that they don't want you in your life? Waiting for their midlife crisis to end? Really sounds like a tough road for a bs.

 

Maybe it works for some though. I am certainly not an authority.

[starglider]

Waiting for their midlife crisis to end? Really sounds like a tough road for a bs.

I agree it sounds like a tremendously tough road for a BS to take. I'm not advocating it. Just putting it out there as another POV to consider.

 

I knew a couple who had been together for many years and the H had a midlife crisis and they were on the brink of D for a couple of years. Financially, the wife felt she couldn't leave and the WS didn't have the courage to D his W, so she ended up standing despite advice from all her friends to D. She did her own thing, worked on herself, and planned for a future without her H, but never fully closed the door on the relationship.

 

It was like witnessing an illness and eventually he came back to his "old self" and by this time she had grown herself too and they reconciled. She sees the MLC as a type of mental illness episode, and having spent time with her H before, during, and after the MLC, I tend to agree that can be the case with some people.

[KBarletta]

Thanks starglider for the kind words and helpful info. I honestly wasn't all that familiar until now with the concept of "standing" in a troubled marriage. It wasn't what I intended to do, and still isn't, but I suppose it's what I've done by default.

 

What it comes down to is that I've asked myself "am I ready to sign divorce papers today?" No, I'm not. Not because I harbor some fantasy that my wife is going to return, or that I would even want her back if she did. I simply am not ready to do it, emotionally. And since my wife put the timetable in my lap and asked me to handle it, I am going to do so on my time, not hers. Part of the reason I think I am "stalling" is that I think the longer our daughter can have something resembling the status quo, the better off she'll be. Once the D is final, I think my wife will feel empowered to run off with our daughter and not look back. That's really my motivation for taking my time, providing some kind of stability in my daughter's life.

 

I know my wife well enough that I am 99 percent sure what she is experiencing is a MLC. I also know her well enough to know that she is fickle and doesn't stick with anything for very long (jobs, hobbies, homes, etc., all last a few years and are discarded - I suppose you can add husbands to that list, too ) I know in my heart that she will regret what she's done. The sad thing is that I know just as well that I am past the point of no return now. I am not ready to divorce, but I can't stomach the idea of reconciliation either. The idea of a divorce is actually more appealing, though neither alternative is ideal for me right now. So I am working on myself and rebuilding my life for me and my daughter, and I'll get to the divorce paperwork when it feels right. It doesn't yet.