The Ups and Downs

[minimariah]

I have gotten papers together to file for divorce and could file within a few weeks to a month (though I still don't WANT to do so), and my wife has mentioned nothing to me about her plans (no talk of D, no talk of moving, no mention of anything to do with the future for her, us or our daughter) since D-Day.

 

file for divorce as soon as you possibly can & show her that you're really done and over with her. even if you aren't and even if you're still hurting - it will help you to do SOMETHING in trying to move on.

 

I am torn about whether to confront my wife about these plans, mention it to my daughter (who I am sure knows more than I do about what might happen) or just keep it to myself and let what is going to happen occur organically, since there is no legal recourse for me anyway no matter what.

 

if the daughter is old enough - contact only with her. you can talk to the W, be nice and cool about it & tell her that you don't care about her anymore at all BUT that you would love to stay in contact with this little girl. if you do contact your W, make sure that she sees it's only about the daughter. if the daughter is old enough - contact only with her.

 

i know you're going through a lot of pain but it will be okay, i promise you. it takes time. you know how they say - fake it until you make it. so fake that you totally moved on, do stuff that make you happy and let your W now she has no power over you... one day at a time.

[KBarletta]

If the daughter is old enough - contact only with her.

 

This is my plan eventually. She is 13 and I have been considering getting her a cell phone on my plan so we can communicate directly. Haven't yet because of wife's likely disapproval. She likes to be in control of our interaction, as it gives her power over me.

[KBarletta]

Hello again LS friends,

 

I am here today for a different reason than usual. And if y'all think I ought to post a separate thread on this in the Dating section, I will do that.

 

Here's the issue: Four months into separation from my wife, and I am growing more certain each day that this is the end. I have emotionally detached more and more each passing week, to the point that this week I have felt completely normal 99 percent of the time. NC except for daughter issues. Still miss my wife, still have brief pangs of regret and reconciliation hopes, but overall doing well as can be and moving on as much as possible.

 

Here's the issue at hand: I have a friend I have known since around the time I met my wife (10 years ago). Back then, I was set up on a blind date with her by my best friend (her roommate) and we got along great. I thought she was beautiful, smart, funny, etc. But around that same time, I met my wife and that was that. My wife and I became exclusive and I did not pursue the other woman, though I still saw her regularly in group settings with friends.

 

This OW and I have remained friends over the years and seen each other in group settings on a regular basis, but there was never anything romantic between us once my wife and I got together. OW is always warm toward me, hugs me, etc., and is always glad to see me but that is as far as it has gone.

 

Over the past 10 years, this OW went on to focus mainly on her career and went on to become hugely successful in it. We are very compatible and share many similar interests (more than I do with my wife). We don't work together, but our work does overlap in some areas, so I had to e-mail her about a work-related event a few weeks ago. She responded very enthusiastically to my email (lots of exclamation points ), I told her I'd love to see her and have a chat, and so we scheduled a coffee get-together for next week. I am fairly certain that she doesn't know anything about my situation at home.

 

The thing is, I am very attracted to the OW. I think she's brilliant, funny, beautiful and I have been thinking about her every day since we started e-mailing a few weeks ago. There is no other woman I know who I would even think of asking out at this point. I also know, through friends, that she is single and looking. So ... I would like to use this coffee meet-up as a chance to reach out to her and see if she is open to dating. I would be 100 percent honest about where things stand with my wife (they have met of course but are not friends) and would be sure to tell her that I would want to take things slow if we were to date.

 

My questions are: 1. Should I do this, or just stick to being friends? 2. If yes, how should I go about it? (I've been out of the dating scene for a decade and am not sure exactly how to approach the subject).

 

Truth is, I am getting kind of excited just thinking about the idea, but I don't want to screw up the friendship I have with her. We're not best friends, but I value our relationship as it is and wouldn't want to ruin it by being stupid.

 

Any advice?

[Mr. Lucky]

The only caution I'd mention is that your thread is appropriately titled "The Ups and Downs", a pretty accurate description of separation and divorce. As such, a tough situation to bring another person into until the dust is settled.

 

Only you can judge - are things past the "drama" stage? If not 100% sure, might be best to prioritize her friendship over her role as a potential romantic partner. That could always come down the line.

 

I didn't date until a year after my separation since that's how long it took for my divorce to become final. But I also had a young son to focus on. Each situation is different, don't think anyone here can answer for you. Keep us posted ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[KBarletta]

The only caution I'd mention is that your thread is appropriately titled "The Ups and Downs", a pretty accurate description of separation and divorce. As such, a tough situation to bring another person into until the dust is settled.

 

Only you can judge - are things past the "drama" stage? If not 100% sure, might be best to prioritize her friendship over her role as a potential romantic partner. That could always come down the line.

 

I didn't date until a year after my separation since that's how long it took for my divorce to become final. But I also had a young son to focus on. Each situation is different, don't think anyone here can answer for you. Keep us posted ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Thanks for the response. I guess without a crystal ball it's hard to tell whether there is drama ahead. It depends a lot on the decisions my wife makes in the next several months, and that I cannot predict. I don't intend to introduce any drama outside of doing what I can to hold on to what is most important to me (my daughter).

 

My first instinct after reading what you wrote, Mr. L., is to tell my friend (the OW) that I am going through a divorce and that I could really use a friend, and then suggest we spend more time together as friends - then leave it at that for now. If she is interested in being more than that, I may be able to gauge it better down the line after we spend more time together.

[chew123]

Kb,

 

Just as a warning I tried the friends thing. I met a woman about 2 months after my wife told me she was leaving for another man. Granted, in my situation it was final but in my opinion too soon for a relationship. I still needed to end my old one in my mind first.

 

We hung around a lot for 2 months, now the line has been crossed and we are in a bit of a relationship. It is pretty difficult to stay friends only when you are in the situation that we are in.

 

I think the relationship has been good for the both of us but who knows. And I have been totally up front and honest as I am sure you are going to be with your friend. My divorce will be final in a couple weeks.

 

I do suspect that when this new relationship ends, and it probably will as most do, I am going to be hurting again. Probably go through some of the pain like I felt in the first 2 months.

 

One other concern of mine is that my wife is starting to show signs that she knows she made a mistake. Most of our friends and my therapist suspect that there is a good chance she is going to try and come back. I always said never say never with regards to taking her back, but now that I am with someone else I am less inclined to give it a chance should I get the opportunity. I think this is a good thing since I really don't want her back but who knows.

 

Bottom line is a new woman, even if she is just a friend with potential does complicate things a bit. I do think it has been a net positive for me, but definetly more complicated.

 

Good luck either way you go. It really does feel very good to be with a woman who appreciates you for who you are after all of the trauma we have been through.

[Mr. Lucky]

Thanks for the response. I guess without a crystal ball it's hard to tell whether there is drama ahead. It depends a lot on the decisions my wife makes in the next several months, and that I cannot predict. I don't intend to introduce any drama outside of doing what I can to hold on to what is most important to me (my daughter).

 

To me, here's the million $ question - If your wife called and said "I've come to my senses, let's give it a shot" - would you ???

 

If the answer is yes, (to me) unfair to stick another romantic partner in the middle...

 

Mr. Lucky

[KBarletta]

It really does feel very good to be with a woman who appreciates you for who you are after all of the trauma we have been through.

 

Thanks chew.

 

I appreciate the insight. I am leaning toward not asking her out immediately but just asking to spend more time as friends. The more I think about it, saying "Looks like I'm getting a divorce - by the way, wanna go out?" sounds kind of creepy and totally like I'm just looking for a rebound. But saying, "Looks like I'm getting a divorce, and I'd really like to spend more time with my friends who care about me" sounds a lot better, and is more where my head is at anyway.

 

The fact is, this woman is the total package. She's gorgeous, super-smart, super-successful, really kind and funny. Just everything I could ever want in a partner. And I would hate to let a chance to be with her slip through my fingers a second time, which is what makes me nervous about this.

[KBarletta]

To me, here's the million $ question - If your wife called and said "I've come to my senses, let's give it a shot" - would you ???

 

If the answer is yes, (to me) unfair to stick another romantic partner in the middle...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I guess the answer is "I don't know" - which is perhaps even worse? It would really depend a lot on what was said in the conversation that came after that. I would need to know her motivation for seeking another chance, what the terms would be, what she'd done to address the issues that led her to leave in the first place. I guess the answer is that it wouldn't be an immediate "no" but it also wouldn't be a whole-hearted "yes" either. Somewhere in between.

[KBarletta]

In the past few weeks, I have spoken to an attorney and had divorce papers drawn up, for a divorce that I did not even WANT, and I'm still not 100 percent sure I do.

 

Can any of the dumpers on here explain to me why - four months after moving out and declaring our marriage over - my wife has made no effort whatsoever to take the next step (initiate D, or at least have conversations about it). It angers me that this responsibility is on me to get it done when I didn't even want it in the first place. Why am I doing it? Because one of us has to take the initiative, or we will spend months/years in limbo. I don't want to be in limbo - I want to get on with my life. If this is what life is going to bring, then bring it.

 

Still, I can't shake the feeling that as the one who left, this is HER responsibility, and - again - she is half-assing it. Just like she did during our relationship. It sucks, but I guess this is the way it goes sometimes.

 

Am I wrong?

 

KTB

Edited March 6, 2015 by KBarletta

[Decisiontomake]

I left my H about a year ago and I have not proceeded with "final" steps or even initial ones to part. I have not initiated a divorce although we have talked about it. Why? Well there's a whole host of reasons.

 

It feels too painful a task to start and then go through.

 

I'm not ready emotionally to do it but logically know I should.

 

The limbo we are in, as painful as that is, is the safest and most familiar place to be right now.

 

The finality - even tho in IC we talk of nothing truly being final - is overwhelming.

 

Your wife may feel some or all or more than this but that is my reasoning if that helps at all.

[TashaTudor]

I understand your frustration.

 

A dumping spouse but yet they show no urgency to help move the divorce along.

 

I don't think they realize how much of your time has been wasted by prolonging the limbo. Time you can never get back.

 

I think if it's done then let's make it official asap , imo.

 

Keep pushing to get things rolling so you can really move on with your life.

 

Good luck to you.

[KBarletta]

I left my H about a year ago and I have not proceeded with "final" steps or even initial ones to part. I have not initiated a divorce although we have talked about it. Why? Well there's a whole host of reasons.

 

It feels too painful a task to start and then go through.

 

I'm not ready emotionally to do it but logically know I should.

 

The limbo we are in, as painful as that is, is the safest and most familiar place to be right now.

 

The finality - even tho in IC we talk of nothing truly being final - is overwhelming.

 

Your wife may feel some or all or more than this but that is my reasoning if that helps at all.

 

Thanks DTM. I do have a question, though - as the one who left, how would you react to being served with papers by your spouse? Would it be a relief that he did what you did not yet feel ready to do, or would you be hurt, or would it be a shock and make you reflect on what you really want? Or maybe a combination of these?

 

I only ask because this is likely what I will be doing in the coming weeks - serving my wife with a lawsuit to end our marriage - and I am wondering what the reaction/fallout is going to be.

[Decisiontomake]

It would be a mixture of all of those emotions I think. This whole experience has been a pendulum swing of extreme emotions from one minute to the next. I would say though that I would probably have relief at the top of that list if he were to serve me or insist that we take steps to formalize the end of our marriage. The other emotions would be painful but ones that I would bear on my own - they would be the consequence of that relief if that makes sense. I don't believe logically I will return to my H even though that is still what he wants. But that doesn't make ending it any easier emotionally. I hate the black and white responses on her that it should "just be done" or that one or the other party is being cruel somehow. Yes it can look like that but it rarely is that simple. I wish to God I was not in this situation, however I have come to be here. And I wish I were able to move forward as I am sure you do too.

[KBarletta]

It would be a mixture of all of those emotions I think. This whole experience has been a pendulum swing of extreme emotions from one minute to the next. I would say though that I would probably have relief at the top of that list if he were to serve me or insist that we take steps to formalize the end of our marriage. The other emotions would be painful but ones that I would bear on my own - they would be the consequence of that relief if that makes sense. I don't believe logically I will return to my H even though that is still what he wants. But that doesn't make ending it any easier emotionally. I hate the black and white responses on her that it should "just be done" or that one or the other party is being cruel somehow. Yes it can look like that but it rarely is that simple. I wish to God I was not in this situation, however I have come to be here. And I wish I were able to move forward as I am sure you do too.

 

I do want to move forward, yes. The difficult thing is that the only path forward for me is to do something I would have considered unthinkable just a few months ago. And that does make me more angry than anything, to be honest.

 

I often think (of my wife): If this is what YOU wanted, why am I the one doing it? I understand that it's an emotional decision, but it's no less emotional for the dumpee, probably even more so because they were in most cases blindsided by it and didn't want it. So while I understand not wanting to do it, it's still extremely upsetting to put the responsibility on the person who is hurting just as much and probably more than you are, if that makes sense.

[81West]

Three things that are almost guaranteed to produce stress in people are loss of control, lack of information and uncertainty. With your situation you've got all three going on and I wonder if the urge to 'act' is not an attempt, conscious or unconscious, to resolve some of the stress. It is HARD to just sit with something that makes us uncomfortable and we often become mired in the past or the future to avoid facing the present. Learning to just sit with the discomfort and engage and accept the moment with all it's mixed sadness and anger and grief and hope might get you to a better place than rushing ahead with a divorce for the sake of action.

Edited March 6, 2015 by 81West

[chew123]

KB,

 

In my opinion your wife is being extremely cruel leaving you in limbo and not telling you her intentions. At least my waw told me it was over on DDAY so I could start processing. Of course I still had to do all the legwork for the divorce like you.

 

My opinion is you should file. Nothing that says you have to follow it through, but filing will at least be a step forward out of limbo.

[KBarletta]

KB,

 

In my opinion your wife is being extremely cruel leaving you in limbo and not telling you her intentions. At least my waw told me it was over on DDAY so I could start processing. Of course I still had to do all the legwork for the divorce like you.

 

My opinion is you should file. Nothing that says you have to follow it through, but filing will at least be a step forward out of limbo.

 

Thanks chew. That's my plan. Already have preliminary papers drawn up, sitting down with attorney next week to discuss next steps.

 

The thing is, my wife left and declared that she was not interested in couples' therapy, didn't want to reconcile, thought it was over, etc. If that is the case, then wouldn't SHE want it to be over sooner rather than later? I know it's painful, but it's just as painful (actually probably moreso) for me. So while she's relieving herself of her own pain, she's piling more onto me. Again. It sucks.

[KBarletta]

Three things that are almost guaranteed to produce stress in people are loss of control, lack of information and uncertainty. With your situation you've got all three going on and I wonder if the urge to 'act' is not an attempt, conscious or unconscious, to resolve some of the stress. It is HARD to just sit with something that makes us uncomfortable and we often become mired in the past or the future to avoid facing the present. Learning to just sit with the discomfort and engage and accept the moment with all it's mixed sadness and anger and grief and hope might get you to a better place than rushing ahead with a divorce for the sake of action.

 

You have a good point. But what does sitting in discomfort get me, exactly? It's hard to see what the benefits of that are. I don't necessarily find it to be a learning experience to be anxious and tense all the time, though learning to deal with those feelings is valuable I guess.

 

When I am uncomfortable, I just want it to be over as soon as possible.

[chew123]

KB,

 

Yes it sucks. Its amazing that people who we care so much for can treat us so callously. I never though my wife had the capacity to just discard me.

 

It seems that it is all about them at this point and they don't have much regard for us.

[81West]

You have a good point. But what does sitting in discomfort get me, exactly? It's hard to see what the benefits of that are. I don't necessarily find it to be a learning experience to be anxious and tense all the time, though learning to deal with those feelings is valuable I guess.

 

When I am uncomfortable, I just want it to be over as soon as possible.

 

Filing would give you a sense of regaining control, and I so get the allure of that. The sense of regaining control implies once again being able to direct your life - 'move forward' as we say. But if you were to catalogue your truest emotions right now I'd suspect barely any of them would be actually addressed by filing for a divorce you didn't choose aren't even sure you want. It could be gaining control at the expense of gaining mastery, if that makes sense. If you can truly master your emotions and self doubts and the myrid of other things going on inside and move towards your divorce from a place of real peace rather than using it as a tool to move away from hurt and discomfort for the sake of more immediate relief, you'd truly have gained something from all this. A sense of control at it's most powerful is an internal mechanism and can happen completely within you and is not dependent on external signals like whether you have filed for divorce.

[Mr. Lucky]

The thing is, my wife left and declared that she was not interested in couples' therapy, didn't want to reconcile, thought it was over, etc. If that is the case, then wouldn't SHE want it to be over sooner rather than later? I know it's painful, but it's just as painful (actually probably moreso) for me. So while she's relieving herself of her own pain, she's piling more onto me. Again. It sucks.

 

Look at the steps: marriage>separation>divorce.

 

The departing spouse sees this half: separation>divorce. She's on her way and gets to act as though she's single, what's not to like? No hurry on her part.

 

I'm sure you see where this is going, the "left behind" spouse sees this half: marriage>separation. In their mind, they're still bound by the commitment and what it means.

 

If fun is the only metric, think I'd rather be the dumper than the dumpee ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TashaTudor]

File.

 

Take control of it. She won't protest as she is the one who wants out.

 

My ex wanted out but dragged his feet about everything. I filed and was relentlessly pushing the subject because I just wanted the pain to stop. I just couldnt be his wife anymore. Filing was me putting myself first to stop the pain of watching him have his affair openly.

 

Filing says...."I won't let you do this to me anymore".

[KBarletta]

Bad, bad morning.

 

I got an unsolicited e-mail from my wife today that said: "I would like you to file the paperwork for divorce."

 

The first e-mail she has sent in four months that didn't involve our daughter.

 

And, again, as was typical throughout our relationship, she decides what she wants then puts the responsibility on me to follow through with it. In this case, she is putting the responsibility on me to follow through with something that I didn't even want. I feel like responding by saying: "Just like you did when we were together, you decide something important then leave it up to me to make it happen. And that way you relieve yourself of the blame, and any responsibility if it doesn't work out. Best of both worlds for you, worst case scenario for me. Thanks."

 

I won't send that note (probably) but now don't have any clue how to respond. I think she needs to know that I think it's completely wrong to drop this in my lap when she is the one who chose to leave, and to do so via e-mail (sent from her phone) as she is about to leave town on a three-day trip (which I only know about because my daughter told me).

 

Even though I already have the papers together and am ready to file, this note still throws me for a loop, because it removes the power I had in filing and surprising her. Now, it will seem as if I - again - am doing what she wants. It almost makes me want to take the papers I have drawn up and burn them and tell her - if you want this, you file.

 

Ugh. Feeling like I've been run over by a truck today.

Edited March 9, 2015 by KBarletta

[Decisiontomake]

Hey KB. Sorry your morning started this way. I think you give her the papers you've filed. It's not about power or what you feel that shows in terms of her calling the shots. It's about setting yourself free. Send them. Today. She'll know they were drawn up before her note.