The Ups and Downs

[MJJean]

I can't stand not knowing so I'd call her back and ask. You can put it the same way you did here, that you were wondering if she misdialed or was making a friendly call. See what she says. Sometimes family will remain friendly and supportive of their stbx-in law. She might have been calling to let you know she is still your friend and cares about you even if you won't be in-laws anymore. If so, she could take you not responding as a rejection.

[KBarletta]

Hi all,

 

I haven't been posting too many updates, as not much has changed lately, but one thing came up today that I wanted advice on from others on the boards.

 

Wife and I have been NC (or extreme-LC, except for texts regarding child care) for about two months. No legal separation, no divorce papers filed, but not really any hope of reconciliation at this point, either.

 

Today, wife e-mailed to ask how I thought we should handle tax returns. Normally, we would file jointly as a married couple, as that provides the most benefits (i.e., biggest $$$ refund).

 

I responded with a simple reply that said "I think we should file separately." and left it at that. Even though we would probably stand to gain $500 more by filing jointly, I am not sure it is worth it, for the following reasons:

 

1. I am not really interested in establishing the level of contact that it would require to do that. We'd have to exchange financial information (at a very sensitive time) and have conversations about work expenses, child care expenses, health care, etc.

 

2. I think we need to get used to doing these things on our own. (By that I mean my wife needs to get used to not relying on me for these things. Mind you, for the past eight years I have always filed our taxes myself, and even filed my wife's for a few years for her before we were married.)

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Thanks -

 

KTB

[toolforgrowth]

Hi all,

 

I haven't been posting too many updates, as not much has changed lately, but one thing came up today that I wanted advice on from others on the boards.

 

Wife and I have been NC (or extreme-LC, except for texts regarding child care) for about two months. No legal separation, no divorce papers filed, but not really any hope of reconciliation at this point, either.

 

Today, wife e-mailed to ask how I thought we should handle tax returns. Normally, we would file jointly as a married couple, as that provides the most benefits (i.e., biggest $$$ refund).

 

I responded with a simple reply that said "I think we should file separately." and left it at that. Even though we would probably stand to gain $500 more by filing jointly, I am not sure it is worth it, for the following reasons:

 

1. I am not really interested in establishing the level of contact that it would require to do that. We'd have to exchange financial information (at a very sensitive time) and have conversations about work expenses, child care expenses, health care, etc.

 

2. I think we need to get used to doing these things on our own. (By that I mean my wife needs to get used to not relying on me for these things. Mind you, for the past eight years I have always filed our taxes myself, and even filed my wife's for a few years for her before we were married.)

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Thanks -

 

KTB

 

I think this was PERFECT. You're clearly detaching, and you're not trying to hold her hand either. You kept it short and simple. You're going to file your income by yourself. Boom. End of story.

 

Keep all contact on this level: it's business, nothing more. Since she's the one who initiated the separation, she needs to get used to the idea of you not being there to make her life easier.

[chew123]

If its only 500 dollars that sounds good. In my case it is a lot more than that and I am going to file one more joint return before the divorce.

 

Are you sure its only 500? I assume she will end up taking the deduction for the child.

 

Obviously I have no idea what your financial situation is and if the money is insignificant than maintaining NC/LC is preferable.

[KBarletta]

If its only 500 dollars that sounds good. In my case it is a lot more than that and I am going to file one more joint return before the divorce.

 

Are you sure its only 500? I assume she will end up taking the deduction for the child.

 

Obviously I have no idea what your financial situation is and if the money is insignificant than maintaining NC/LC is preferable.

 

She will take the deduction for our daughter. I will take the deductions for our mortgage and taxes, etc. It should come out close to even. In past years, I've calculated the difference and it's been anywhere from $400 to $700 difference between filing separate and joint returns.

 

I have a better job and can afford to live without the $$$, honestly, more easily than she can at this point. She'd probably prefer to get a little more cash, even if it means we have to spend a day together.

[MJJean]

She will take the deduction for our daughter. I will take the deductions for our mortgage and taxes, etc. It should come out close to even. In past years, I've calculated the difference and it's been anywhere from $400 to $700 difference between filing separate and joint returns.

 

I have a better job and can afford to live without the $$$, honestly, more easily than she can at this point. She'd probably prefer to get a little more cash, even if it means we have to spend a day together.

 

I think $400-$700 is totally worth maintaining NC/LC and that doing her own taxes plus living with a smaller refund is a good lesson for her.

 

Not to mention where would the refund go? You separated finances, yes? So, in the case of a joint filing and a joint refund, one of you would have to try to collect from the other. Not worth the hassle.

[KBarletta]

Yes. Everything is separate at this point except our home ownership. You make another good point. I'm now glad I did it this way.

[MJJean]

Yes. Everything is separate at this point except our home ownership. You make another good point. I'm now glad I did it this way.

 

You made the right decision. I watched my friend and her ex argue for like 3 months straight over a joint refund. It was ridiculous. Anger, resentment, mistrust, and hurt feelings all over a few hundred bucks? Not worth it.

[KBarletta]

Just a quick update, all: No major changes here, but thanks for all of the advice and support so far.

 

It is exactly three months since my wife announced her intent to leave, and nine weeks since she actually did and we began extreme LC (only once or twice-weekly texts and e-mails on child care issues).

 

This "anniversary" hit me hard for some reason even though I've been feeling better, overall, the past couple of weeks. This milestone, coupled with the barrage of Valentine messages and images I am seeing on a daily basis, has me feeling kind of melancholy and really wishing my ex were still here. We had our issues - none that I thought were deal breakers and the BU came as a shock to me - but I still love her deeply and miss her every day.

 

Sticking with LC/NC for as long as it takes to feel whole again is really my only option, so I guess I'm not looking for any advice here, just wanted to post an update and get some feelings off my chest.

[KBarletta]

Just a quick situation on which I need a few thoughts. It's strange and I don't know how to proceed or if maybe to just ignore.

 

I have been in extreme LC with my wife for nearly 10 weeks. She dropped the bomb about three months ago and moved out shortly thereafter with our daughter. Our only contact since then has been via brief texts and e-mails regarding child care issues. No Merry Christmases, no Happy New Years. Nothing. No papers filed, either. I still love her and would get back together if the circumstances were right.

 

At times she's asked an important question via text or e-mail, and I have answered quickly and politely, but I have offered absolutely nothing more by way of updates about my situation, have asked nothing of her situation, etc. Very brief, businesslike exchanges. She's called once or twice and I have always let the calls go to voice mail. She's left messages when necessary.

 

Now, for the past two mornings, at just after 7 a.m., she has called both my home phone and cell phone. She has left no messages, followed up with no e-mails or texts. Mind you, this is the time of day that she would be free for about a half hour between dropping our daughter at school and going to work. She knows that I would be at home having coffee and relaxing before work because this is what I've done for years at that time of day. It's also the only time of day that we would both be free without our daughter around.

 

The first day, I thought it was just a mistake that she called. Then it happened again today at exactly the same time, and calls went to both my home and cell phones, one right after the other. So it's not a mistake. But no messages, and no follow up notes/texts.

 

My thoughts:

 

1. If it was an emergency and she needed immediate help, she would have left a message or followed up with a text asking me to call right away.

 

2. If it was a mistake, it wouldn't have happened two days in a row at the same time.

 

3. If it was something important but not an emergency, she would leave a message or follow up with a text or e-mail. It's been three hours later and no follow ups.

 

What would you make of this if you were me? Would you reach out in any way to find out what's up, or would you ignore? If she calls again, would you answer?

[toolforgrowth]

Ignore. She's trying to yank the chain and see if you still come running. Odds are she'll continue trying this off and on in other manners as time goes on. Act blissfully unaware and ignore her. These qualify as breadcrumbs, nothing more.

[KBarletta]

Thanks tfg. I think you are right.

 

Knowing her, I also think she's probably motivated by guilt.

 

The thing is, I don't want to miss a legit chance at reconciliation because I was too stubborn to take some kind of step in her direction. But the bottom line is that she has to at least say SOMETHING before I can respond (if I do at all).

 

In this case, I think you're right - best to continue NC/LC. Thanks.

[toolforgrowth]

I get that you want to leave the door for possible R open, but two phone calls without leaving messages don't qualify as genuine attempts for R. If she really wanted another chance, she'd be banging on your door, or at the very least leaving a bloody voicemail letting you know.

 

You can't make it easy on her. She has to want it bad enough and earn her place back at your side.

[Mr. Lucky]

My thoughts:

 

1. If it was an emergency and she needed immediate help, she would have left a message or followed up with a text asking me to call right away.

 

2. If it was a mistake, it wouldn't have happened two days in a row at the same time.

 

3. If it was something important but not an emergency, she would leave a message or follow up with a text or e-mail. It's been three hours later and no follow ups.

 

What would you make of this if you were me? Would you reach out in any way to find out what's up, or would you ignore? If she calls again, would you answer?

 

Hard to disagree with 1, 2 or 3.

 

At some point, given kids involved, your relationship and communication will move to a civil phase of more engagement. Three months might be too soon, for me took a year though there was infidelity involved. Up to you if and when you're ready for it.

 

I guess I'd answer. If she's over-stepping the bounds of LC/NC, you could use the occasion to remind her of the ground rules...

 

Mr. Lucky

[KBarletta]

Hard to disagree with 1, 2 or 3.

 

At some point, given kids involved, your relationship and communication will move to a civil phase of more engagement. Three months might be too soon, for me took a year though there was infidelity involved. Up to you if and when you're ready for it.

 

I guess I'd answer. If she's over-stepping the bounds of LC/NC, you could use the occasion to remind her of the ground rules...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Thanks - I am not sure when I'll be ready for more communication, but I know it's not yet.

 

The thing is, our daughter will be 14 in less than a year. Not too long before she will start to spend more time alone and start to make more decisions on her own about where/when to spend her time. I have thought about getting her a cell phone on my plan (she has never had one) so we can contact each other directly, though I am not sure how my wife would take that. It would be ideal from my perspective so my wife wouldn't have to be my "go between" but she probably likes being in that position so she'd probably take it as me trying an "end around" and using our daughter as a pawn. It wouldn't be that way at all, but I am not ready for that standoff yet so I will wait.

[chew123]

I would answer. If you are sitting around and available to answer the phone why not? If you had answered you would know what she wanted. Now you are left wondering.

 

I would even call her back and say hey I noticed you called what did you want?

 

Unless just hearing her voice would set you back. In my case I am pretty much NC finally but occasional communication does not really bug me. But I know she is gone so I am not susceptible to breadcrumbs. Sometimes I think we go a little overboard with the NC.

[LifeNomad]

im kinda in the situation about the phone calls, at first I would answer immediately but that is a HUGE mistake.

 

 

there are times she calls and I have the phone next to me, and I don't answer. If its an emergency pertaining to kids she will call again or text. Keep everything about the kids only. Set your days that you gonna see your kid(s) and stick to it. You don't even gotta talk to her when you go pick your kids up unless it about the kids. Just remember to look good and smell good ALL THE TIME. Exercise too that's the best thing you can do. get fitter and leaner.

 

 

So far with me, one of the only possible ways ignoring her phone calls can backfire is if the kids have an award thing or school presentation at school and she calls to let you know but since you didn't answer shell give you the old "well I tried telling you but you didn't answer deal". The moment that happens try to see if the school can give you a heads up on any events for your kids.

 

 

Just leave her alone work on yourself and make her regret it. It could take weeks, months, years, heck she could be on her deathbed thinking back on her life when it might hit her.

 

 

 

 

You control the situation now, don't let her control it anymore.

 

 

As far as the taxes go, I guess the CPA can give you better advice on this because if your married idk if you or her can file head of household status which would give you a better tax break or bigger refund. If you have 2 kids maybe you claim 1 and she claims 1 or something like that.

[KBarletta]

I would answer. If you are sitting around and available to answer the phone why not? If you had answered you would know what she wanted. Now you are left wondering.

 

I would even call her back and say hey I noticed you called what did you want?

 

Unless just hearing her voice would set you back. In my case I am pretty much NC finally but occasional communication does not really bug me. But I know she is gone so I am not susceptible to breadcrumbs. Sometimes I think we go a little overboard with the NC.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I've reached a point where I am comfortable with where our communication is. It's much easier to control my emotions with e-mails and texts because I have time to think. I am just not ready for the immediacy of a phone conversation, especially if the subject turned to our relationship. That's why I think I'd actually rather be left wondering and let her message me if it's important enough. In this case, it clearly wasn't. Also, 7 a.m. isn't exactly a time to call someone for an important conversation, in my opinion.

 

It's not that it would set me back necessarily, but that I could damage things further if I let my emotions get the better of me.

Edited January 29, 2015 by KBarletta

[KBarletta]

Keep everything about the kids only. Set your days that you gonna see your kid(s) and stick to it. You don't even gotta talk to her when you go pick your kids up unless it about the kids. Just remember to look good and smell good ALL THE TIME. Exercise too that's the best thing you can do. get fitter and leaner.

 

 

We've been so limited in our contact, that it doesn't matter what I smell like and barely matters what I look like. I do make sure I look good and smell good and I am working out every day, but not necessarily for her - she'd never notice anyway. She hasn't been close enough to me to smell me or even see me up close in over a month, and even that time was an accident.

[KBarletta]

So today I saw my wife with another guy. A little background:

 

My daughter spends Friday night and most of Saturday with me. She has a karate class each Saturday morning, after which I pick her up and have lunch. Across the street from the karate studio is a lunch place, a diner that my wife and I used to frequent.

 

Today, as I and my daughter were driving away from the karate studio, I spotted my wife (and she spotted me) as she was walking to the diner, with another guy. I have no idea who the guy is or what their relationship is, but she definitely saw me, and DEFINITELY knew I'd be there at that exact moment, so I can't help but think her appearance there was deliberate.

 

As I said, I have no idea who the guy is, and am not even 100 percent sure they were together, to be honest, but given the timing (she knew I'd be coming past at that moment), I think it was deliberate.

 

Call me impulsive, but I went straight home and contacted a lawyer.

 

Somehow, now I feel better.

[Mr. Lucky]

Call me impulsive, but I went straight home and contacted a lawyer.

 

Somehow, now I feel better.

 

I'll call you deliberate, considered and resolved. Congrats on taking the next sleep...

 

Mr. Lucky

[KBarletta]

Hi again all.

 

It's been a few weeks since I posted an update, and this morning I feel like I've been punched in the gut, so I need to get this out.

 

For those who haven't been following the entire thread: After 10-year relationship and 6+ year marriage, wife moved out about 3.5 months ago - out of the blue - with daughter (now 13). Daughter is hers from previous relationship, but I am the only father she has ever known and she considers me as such. I still see her two or three times a week but have been NC with wife other than texts/emails regarding our daughter. When wife left she gave a list of reasons that amounted to all the things she always wanted to do but never did (excitement! adventure!), including living abroad.

 

Today, I got an e-mail from a cousin of mine (who remains friends with wife on Facebook - though I blocked my wife so I see nothing) who said my wife has been talking openly on Facebook about moving to Europe, with our daughter, at the end of the school year. My wife hasn't mentioned a word of this to me since the day she left. But given the fact that she left me without ever communicating her intentions or desires or the extent of her "unfulfilled dreams" to me before D-Day, it seems par for the course that she would make plans to remove from my life the one thing (time with my daughter) that brings me joy and makes me feel normal without EVER communicating these plans to me.

 

So I feel betrayed - again - just like I did the day she left. And because I have no legal or biological connection to my daughter (except for the fact that I am the only actual dad she has ever had in her life who makes her breakfast and took care of her like she was my own for 10 years) there is nothing I can do to stop this from happening if it is what my wife wants.

 

I have gotten papers together to file for divorce and could file within a few weeks to a month (though I still don't WANT to do so), and my wife has mentioned nothing to me about her plans (no talk of D, no talk of moving, no mention of anything to do with the future for her, us or our daughter) since D-Day.

 

I am torn about whether to confront my wife about these plans, mention it to my daughter (who I am sure knows more than I do about what might happen) or just keep it to myself and let what is going to happen occur organically, since there is no legal recourse for me anyway no matter what.

 

I feel today the same sense of betrayal and loss I felt on day 1. Not as overwhelming and it surely won't last as long, but the same sense of loss, and helplessness and hopelessness.

[Mr. Lucky]

I am torn about whether to confront my wife about these plans, mention it to my daughter (who I am sure knows more than I do about what might happen) or just keep it to myself and let what is going to happen occur organically, since there is no legal recourse for me anyway no matter what.

 

Unfortunately, your situation affected by not being her bio Dad.

 

I'd play my cards close and see how things pan out. There are a number of challenges to living abroad that may derail her plans or shorten her stay.

 

Is she from a European country? What would be her motivation to move there?

 

Mr. Lucky

[KBarletta]

Is she from a European country? What would be her motivation to move there?

 

Her motivation, IMO and based on her limited discussions with me about it, is to radically alter a life she sees as boring and unadventurous. Same motivation she had in leaving me.

 

Her father (divorced) was born in Italy and still owns the family homestead there, though it is small enough that it is really the equivalent of a one-bedroom apartment.

 

Wife speaks the language OK. Daughter doesn't at all.

 

For what it's worth, I live in the U.S. - Pennsylvania. Not sure if that's been said before.

[toolforgrowth]

This could also be a bunch of BS. Her way of seeing if she can get a reaction out of you. If she takes this child away from you, that's her choice. Sure, it'll hurt, but both you and the child. But there's nothing you could do to stop it.

 

I personally think your best way of preventing it is to do nothing to prevent it. Allow her to own the decision and the responsibility of said decision.