Confessed - **Updated**

[drifter777]

But you have choices too. No one forces a betrayed spouse to stay with the cheater.

 

One person in the marriage can leave at any time.

How profound. What does the BS's decision whether to stay or leave have to do with carrying on an affair in secret while living an otherwise normal life with spouse? The subject is whether most WW's first choice would be to keep both their AP and BH.

[drifter777]

The thought that I'm having is that perhaps this 80/20 concept has some merit. We see many waywards say that they have no interest in leaving their spouse. They take great pains to not be caught and there's no plans to leave the BS. Even moreso, we see nearly all waywards dump the AP after Dday (both male and female). Certainly there could be other factors for them staying (damage control of reputation, the kids, etc) but perhaps the BS never really was the "back-up plan" at all and was always the primary plan. In many cases, I think the wayward just wanted "more." It's not that their "needs" were unmet; for the record, I have great disdain for that term as I do believe that it's just a rationalization.

 

...My gut says that for many waywards, the BS was never a backup plan. The plan was never to lose the BS but to try to have some extra.

This was the point I was trying to make. Even if the BH is not the backup plan in many cases, they still can be second choice to having her cake and eating it too. The WW's ideal would be to have both her husband and AP.

[Trotters]

I think for most people, making hard choices is difficult. Do I live in the rambling house by the lake in my home town, or do I go seek my fortune and live in an apartment in the city? Do I go and study medicine or do I go round the world surfing? Do I take this exciting job with a low salary or do I plod on with my old job but make a fortune?

Most of us have to choose one, we do not have the luxury of being able to do both.

 

BUT when a WS embarks on an affair, the choice she/he normally has to make, i.e. the choice between the BS or the AP can be left hanging in the air.

The WS can let that slide, no decision needs to be made, unless of course the AP says "STOP, you can have me or the BS - choose now?"

In ongoing affairs, that doesn't tend to happen, so they choose to duck out of the choice.

 

If someone waved a magic wand and said you CAN have the lakeside house AND the flat in the city, what is not to like? We would all like to be in that position.

For a WS they are in that magic place, their hard decision is no longer a hard choice, as long as they can keep others from finding out.

They CAN have the AP and the BS, so what's not to like?

 

But IRL, given the choice between the lakeside home where you grew up and the exciting but scary apartment in the big city, then most will choose the easiest, the most comfortable, the least risky, and the safest, and that is probably the lakeside home, so after d-day, that is where the WS goes - home.

 

 

That's a good way of putting it BUT the easiest, safest, least risky etc still doesn't seem like a good reason to go "home"?. You should go back because you want to not because its the easiest???.

[BetrayedH]

This was the point I was trying to make. Even if the BH is not the backup plan in many cases, they still can be second choice to having her cake and eating it too. The WW's ideal would be to have both her husband and AP.

 

No disagreement there. Frankly, I wouldn't mind having the affection of two women. Wanting it doesn't surprise me. As I said before, it's just unrealistically selfish. Wouldn't having two women be kinda ideal for you, too?

[BetrayedH]

No disagreement there. Frankly, I wouldn't mind having the affection of two women. Wanting it doesn't surprise me. As I said before, it's just unrealistically selfish. Wouldn't having two women be kinda ideal for you, too?

 

On second thought, I've decided that I prefer to disappoint one woman at a time.

[drifter777]

No disagreement there. Frankly, I wouldn't mind having the affection of two women. Wanting it doesn't surprise me. As I said before, it's just unrealistically selfish. Wouldn't having two women be kinda ideal for you, too?

 

I can't handle one - two would kill me.

[merrmeade]

No disagreement there. Frankly, I wouldn't mind having the affection of two women. Wanting it doesn't surprise me. As I said before, it's just unrealistically selfish. Wouldn't having two women be kinda ideal for you, too?

I don't believe that for one minute. You wouldn't do it because you couldn't dehumanize either one of them. You'd never look at it as "having" or them as just "women." You wouldn't do it because you'd have to lie to one or both of them, and you would always feel and know too much of what they're feeling, each one, as separate beings to treat either one as your possession that you are entitled to deceive. Nope. Not possible.

[Nawlins]

I typically don’t offer my input in these forums and have used them as a means to understand why my wife would cheat, and usually the responses from others echoes mine so no need to add my two cents, but since our story is very similar to yours and I see you doing the similar things my ex-wife did I felt compelled to write you. Our children were about the same age as yours, we had been married for 12 years and known each other for 15. My ex-wife had been working at the same company for 13 years. Her boss pursued her, she resisted until the “thrill” of it finally persuaded her to give in. They compartmentalized their relationship as one outside of their marriages, he had a wife and children as well, and this lasted about a year until the AP’s BS figured it out and everything ended. There’s more to this story, but that’s for another day.

 

I told you all this to make some observations of your posts and perhaps offer a different way for you to look at what you are doing today. Some of what I will suggest will sound downright appalling, but if you bear with me till the end hopefully you will see that what I suggest will give the power of decision to your husband and he will see what you are willing to do to move forward.

 

1) Take off the Wedding Ring, especially if you wore it while having sex with your AP. Let him know you are okay with him taking his off as well. Believe me it’s a trigger for most BSs. Give your husband the power to decide when wedding rings should be worn again

 

2) Let him know you don’t expect him to love you the way he did and that you don’t expect him to look at you or your marriage as special.

 

a. Let him know the wife and mother you want to be and how you plan on getting there Define the love you would like for him to have for you in the future and what you plan to do to earn it

 

b. Define the marriage you would like to achieve and what you will do to get it there.

 

c. Define what you hope for the children and what you will do to get them there

 

3) Let him know that during the affair you had your needs fulfilled by him and you wanted what he could not possibly have given. Most established marriages have unfulfilled wants, the same wants that were being filled during dating and the early stages of marriage; passion, excitement, sex, love and connection. Once those wants are filled, some marriages develop the wants of children, a home, stable careers, security, etc. Once those wants are accomplished, they become needs for us to sustain them. The problem for most waywards is the want (family) that became the need to sustain (income/job) opened the door to the original want that brought us together in the first place (passion). Unfortunately now you are exerting a lot of time and energy into sustaining the need and don’t have much else to give to the want

 

4) Ask yourself if you are good for your family’s healing. You still appear to have a range of emotions for your AP and at the same time you are clinging to what you had with your family. Yes it’s your mess so you should deal with the aftermath of it, but an intelligent and strong person knows when to admit they are not making the situation better. Perhaps have a parent come and stay with you, or hire a nanny, someone to give the kids some stability while you get yourself sorted out. I realize that this sounds frightening, letting go and stepping away from the marriage and family, but what you may be doing today to keep both together may be what causes it to unravel later

 

5) Prepare an outline for separation. Where you would live, how much time you’d like to have the kids, how you will earn an income, etc. This gives your BH some comfort knowing what would happen if time away from each other needs to occur; this may also be where the additional parent or nanny helps.

 

6) Prepare an outline for divorce. I’m sure you have read many times where the BS contemplates or stays in the marriage because divorce looks like a bad financial decision, or how much less time they will have with the children. These are not the best reasons to stay in the marriage, but they still persist because no one wants to envision what would happen in divorce. Would you want to be in a marriage that is just surviving because you are afraid of the other side? Give your BH the benefit of knowing what a divorce would look like so your BH and children know that your reasons for being with them is all about them. Your husband and children need to know that they can choose to move forward with or without you

 

7) Stop trying to reconcile and rebuild. Okay, this is a personal irritation for me but I never liked either of those terms when it comes to Infidelity. Most often in these forums you read that those marriages that were successful built something new. Let’s face it, the affair blew up the marriage and the family. Do you really expect to get that back? Do you think your BH or kids want to go back or be reminded of it? Now is this opportunity to talk about what worked well in the marriage, what did not, and how to build a new life and marriage together

 

8) Get back to work; I’m assuming your husband is paying for everything now. When my wife’s affair was discovered she immediately quit and “hunkered down” in the house. To say this was infuriating for me is putting it lightly. I was now the sole income earner not only paying for counseling for the children, her and us, but all the bills and everything else that came with supporting our life due to her bad choice

 

9) There is no “you” in this situation. You know that sacrificing your career is nothing compared to sacrificing your marriage and family. You can have regret and remorse, but it will pale in comparison to theirs. If you are prepared to live independently then don’t cling to keep your family together. If you are like my wife you are on constant watch for your entire family ready to wipe a tear, offer a shoulder and listen with humility and shame. But here’s the thing, in doing this you are not allowing your family to grow and learn to live and think independently of you. Step back or away for a while and let them want you to be with them

 

10) Finally, this never goes away and you will never stop the “heavy lifting.” Four lives were effected by your choice. Not only will you always deal with your own issues, which will subside over time, but you will have to deal with your husband and kid’s issues as well for many years to come

 

I apologize if any or all of this seems harsh. 12 years ago this month I divorced my wife after two miserable years of failing to build a new life past D-Day. Why, because my wife could not stop clinging to the old life she destroyed in order to build a new one. 12 years later my children are nearing the age we were when we met and neither of them have had what I call a quality relationship with a significant other and I’m concerned they never will. They don’t have a good relationship with their mother, much as I’ve tried to help them see the good in her. She has become an accomplished professional with little to show for it outside of work, and from what she tells me, every day she regrets the affair and her failure to do what was right to build us a new life. Best of luck to you and your family Overit75

[happyman64]

Great post Nawlins. Truly terrific insight from a crappy piece if your life.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[BetrayedH]

I don't believe that for one minute. You wouldn't do it because you couldn't dehumanize either one of them. You'd never look at it as "having" or them as just "women." You wouldn't do it because you'd have to lie to one or both of them, and you would always feel and know too much of what they're feeling, each one, as separate beings to treat either one as your possession that you are entitled to deceive. Nope. Not possible.

 

Sorry I missed this.

 

You're right about the dishonesty. I don't really have it in me - not for long anyway.

 

But I do think that many waywards live in the fantasy of having the affection of two people. It just doesn't last.

 

My overall point is that I don't necessarily think that wanting a second person means that they wanted the second person more or that the first person was a "backup" choice.

[merrmeade]

Sorry I missed this.

 

You're right about the dishonesty. I don't really have it in me - not for long anyway.

 

But I do think that many waywards live in the fantasy of having the affection of two people. It just doesn't last.

 

My overall point is that I don't necessarily think that wanting a second person means that they wanted the second person more or that the first person was a "backup" choice.

I know, BH. Sounded like guy-bonding talk with a few harmless if slightly exaggerated generalizations that everybody can agree on.

[merrmeade]

Nawlins, thank you very, very much for the time and care you took with that thorough, thoughtful list. I wish I could show it to my WH, but I think it would be wasted.

 

Can't imagine better suggestions. This is an incredible gift. OP has a much better chance now.

Edited December 8, 2014 by merrmeade

[Selfish]

While Nawlins post is good I am going to add a few things that were different in my situation. Not every BS is cut of the same cloth, male or female.

 

1) Take off the Wedding Ring, especially if you wore it while having sex with your AP. Let him know you are okay with him taking his off as well. Believe me it’s a trigger for most BSs. Give your husband the power to decide when wedding rings should be worn again

I would recommend that you don't just do this. I was encouraged to in order to be "proactive". And it made my BS question my commitment to recovery and the marriage even more. Why did I take my ring off when he never asked? Was I giving up? Did I not want to be seen as married? I think this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't. I would say ask your BS if they want you to take your rings off and if they do give the ring to the BS and let them decide. I would also say really consider if your spouse would like you to give them the okay to taking there ring off. They will decide on there own if they want to. They don't need your permission or okay. And if the do, don't make a stink about it. And letting them know while while it sounds proactive could come across as you calling the shots as well.

2) Let him know you don’t expect him to love you the way he did and that you don’t expect him to look at you or your marriage as special.

I'd skip this too. sounds too much like a pitty party. Another damned if you do, damned if you don't. I have seen many a WS raked over the coals here for doing the very things often suggested as necessary. A better thing would be a simple "I know I ruined what we had"

a. Let him know the wife and mother you want to be and how you plan on getting there Define the love you would like for him to have for you in the future and what you plan to do to earn it

If he will listen. Go for it. But realize it is just words and the actions that follow count more.

b. Define the marriage you would like to achieve and what you will do to get it there.

Once again a plan is good, but make sure you are actually making the actions towards this.

 

c. Define what you hope for the children and what you will do to get them there

I'd leave the kids out of it unless moving towards divorce and then only about a good coparenting relationship. You don't want to be accused of using the kids as a manipulation towards recovery.

 

3) Let him know that during the affair you had your needs fulfilled by him and you wanted what he could not possibly have given. Most established marriages have unfulfilled wants, the same wants that were being filled during dating and the early stages of marriage; passion, excitement, sex, love and connection. Once those wants are filled, some marriages develop the wants of children, a home, stable careers, security, etc. Once those wants are accomplished, they become needs for us to sustain them. The problem for most waywards is the want (family) that became the need to sustain (income/job) opened the door to the original want that brought us together in the first place (passion). Unfortunately now you are exerting a lot of time and energy into sustaining the need and don’t have much else to give to the want

This is good. If it fits your situation. Don't make up stuff to fit what others say about infidelity and why you cheated unless you really know it is true for you. Or you won't be sincere. And that will be sniffed out. Look at the post about the WS script. Some of the things that a WS says on that list were probably true but is being knocked because it sounded to scripted to that BS (and some things said are pretty crazy...)

4) Ask yourself if you are good for your family’s healing. You still appear to have a range of emotions for your AP and at the same time you are clinging to what you had with your family. Yes it’s your mess so you should deal with the aftermath of it, but an intelligent and strong person knows when to admit they are not making the situation better. Perhaps have a parent come and stay with you, or hire a nanny, someone to give the kids some stability while you get yourself sorted out. I realize that this sounds frightening, letting go and stepping away from the marriage and family, but what you may be doing today to keep both together may be what causes it to unravel later

I agree with having support but I don't agree with stepping away from the kids unless you have a serious and harmful mental problem going away. I think most adults should put there own needs aside in the time involving the kids. There is plenty of time during school and bedtime to work on yourself plus it is about making healthy day to day situations. Children need there parents. Besides the fact this could be used against a parent in a custody dispute.

 

5) Prepare an outline for separation. Where you would live, how much time you’d like to have the kids, how you will earn an income, etc. This gives your BH some comfort knowing what would happen if time away from each other needs to occur; this may also be where the additional parent or nanny helps

.

ASK YOUR SPOUSE BEFORE DOING THIS. Making it clear that it is only if they want it. That you want to work on the marriage but you understand if the cheating was a deal breaker. This like the rings could look like you still have one foot out the door. OKay for BS. Not okay for a WS wanting a second chance.

6) Prepare an outline for divorce. I’m sure you have read many times where the BS contemplates or stays in the marriage because divorce looks like a bad financial decision, or how much less time they will have with the children. These are not the best reasons to stay in the marriage, but they still persist because no one wants to envision what would happen in divorce. Would you want to be in a marriage that is just surviving because you are afraid of the other side? Give your BH the benefit of knowing what a divorce would look like so your BH and children know that your reasons for being with them is all about them. Your husband and children need to know that they can choose to move forward with or without you

Don't need to make an outline. See above. BUt simply let your BS know that you aren't going to take them to the cleaners. But also don't sink yourself if you have kids. Enough split that when it is your time with the kids they aren't holed up in a crack shack is sufficient. Don't look like you are thinking about it too much. Or it will look like what I said above. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

7) Stop trying to reconcile and rebuild. Okay, this is a personal irritation for me but I never liked either of those terms when it comes to Infidelity. Most often in these forums you read that those marriages that were successful built something new. Let’s face it, the affair blew up the marriage and the family. Do you really expect to get that back? Do you think your BH or kids want to go back or be reminded of it? Now is this opportunity to talk about what worked well in the marriage, what did not, and how to build a new life and marriage together

Do what your BS wants not what someone else's BS wants. If this is something that matters to him then follow it. If he decides later he doesn't want to think of your marriage as over because you cheated, don't insist it was. His choice.

8) Get back to work; I’m assuming your husband is paying for everything now. When my wife’s affair was discovered she immediately quit and “hunkered down” in the house. To say this was infuriating for me is putting it lightly. I was now the sole income earner not only paying for counseling for the children, her and us, but all the bills and everything else that came with supporting our life due to her bad choice

I think this one is unfair for you but fits others as you never suggested you were doing this. And you also didn't quit your job, he did. Ask him if he wants you to look for a new job, before you do.

9) There is no “you” in this situation. You know that sacrificing your career is nothing compared to sacrificing your marriage and family. You can have regret and remorse, but it will pale in comparison to theirs. If you are prepared to live independently then don’t cling to keep your family together. If you are like my wife you are on constant watch for your entire family ready to wipe a tear, offer a shoulder and listen with humility and shame. But here’s the thing, in doing this you are not allowing your family to grow and learn to live and think independently of you. Step back or away for a while and let them want you to be with them

Applies to your husband not your children. You haven't lost your young children, they still need you. Don't pull away. That doesn't go over well either.

10) Finally, this never goes away and you will never stop the “heavy lifting.” Four lives were effected by your choice. Not only will you always deal with your own issues, which will subside over time, but you will have to deal with your husband and kid’s issues as well for many years to come

I still hate "THE heavy lifting". And as this person didn't reconcile disregard this negativity.

 

There comes a time (2-5 years so "they" say), if the A card is being played, and the A is still be hashed out everyday, that even the WS can say "enough" and draw a boundary. It a truly reconciled relationship or new marriage or whatever term used. The BS will forgive and stop holding the A over your head. It will be a part of your history but no longer be a part of your day to day life. The BS will no longer be sucked into a funk for long or see there WS as a second class citizen. IN a truly healed relationship you will be equal partners again. Not every BS is capable of reaching this place. We are all so different. And if the BS gives it a shot and it isn't in there nature, it is okay for you as the WS to pull the plug. You don't have to remain in permanent purgatory. It is not a healthy place to be 5 or ten years out. But that is a long ways away for you so I wouldn't worry about it. But don't be discouraged and impatient.