preraph Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 It's not like you were seeing him when you went out with the friend, so it's not like you cheated on anybody. Since all you say you did was sleep with the friend, then that friend shouldn't even care if your bf is with you. If he did because it was more than that, then yes, your current bf would be a not nice guy for then dating you. But what you said, that isn't the case, so the runway is clear. Except your bf has got a problem with women having slept with someone besides him and that's a big red flag. Maybe counseling will straighten him out. Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Break up with him. He'll never get over this and if it wasn't his friend he'd be fixated on some other guy you slept with. I agree with the break up advice, but disagree on the 'he'd be fixated on some other guy you slept with' bit. Guys realize their gf is going to have a history of LTRs & STRs and NSA, meaning she slept with other men and some strictly for the sex. Sleeping with a friend, is a different kettle of fish. Many guys will have hang ups over being with one of their sleazy player buddy's good for fun time only cast offs. I know, he knew this upfront when he asked her out, so he really attracted to her but just get over this issue like he hoped. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Maybe he has a problem with you sleeping with people who have a GF. Of this whole thing that's the only thing that would irk me. I would agree with you in general, but note that at the time she slept with the friend, apparently she didn't know about the girlfriend: "...his friend later told me he had a girlfriend." But the biggest thing is you have slept with someone in his ingroup. Men (though I think people is more likely) do not have relations with women men in his social circle have previously been with. It has nothing to do jealousy/insecurity/whatever, it is evolutionary psychology and the need for group cohesion. I don't know - I hear what you're saying but I think the drive for sex and control of a woman's sexuality easily overrides that need for group cohesion. The "bros before hos" mantra is a kind of a shackle we grudgingly adhere to - it's usually used in the context of "Oh, I'd love to get with her, but..." I think it is about jealousy and insecurity. I think it's about his need to own and control her sexuality, and the incredible insecurity that some men encounter when that "ownership" is threatened. I think it's about treating her sexuality as an object, and perceiving that that object is devalued by having been used in the past. And the close proximity of this former lover just rams home that anxiety in a way that he can't block out, as he might with an unknown, more socially distant former lover. You did nothing wrong that night. But he did everything wrong in asking you out in the first place. He should not have done that. Agreed on all points. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Well this is what being madly in love can do to a person, even worse if they already have insecurity issues. There is no point in sticking around, if he keeps punishing you for something that happened years ago that had nothing to do with him. I would suggest moving out, to give him some space while you both continue therapy. I suggest moving out because it won't give him the opportunity to carry on punishing you, or questioning you. You can just get up and leave and have your own place to get away from it. This will teach him there are consequences for his poor behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 If he did because it was more than that, then yes, your current bf would be a not nice guy for then dating you. But what you said, that isn't the case, so the runway is clear. Ha - love the aviation metaphor! If he won't let the matter lie, that really is his burden to carry and baggage to drag around. Don't be the Luggage-monkey. I'm sure I get this metaphor, but the link is giving me a server error, and I'd still love to see the picture - do you have another link to it? Link to post Share on other sites
evanescentworld Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I have this one.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Allumere Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 His behavior mimics that of animals. I wouldn't be all the flattered he asked you out after 2.5 years. In the wild males fight over the females, one wins and mates while the other goes away. What happens the next time that female comes into heat, is available...previous suitor comes around and gets his turn. Or think about a couple of male cat's. One marks his territory and if the other cat resides in same space, he will go right behind and mark the exact same space and objects. He asked you out to mark you...unfortunately he actually ended up liking you but that was absolutely NOT the end-goal. Sorry huni, this won't work and this is absolutely not love. Link to post Share on other sites
giblesp Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You're tolerating way too much here. He's got a big case of retroactive jealousy. Been there myself, but I got over it pretty fast as it was going to threaten my relationship. There's lots of pretty things I could say, but to sum it up; you've given him every chance to get over this and he hasn't. He's actually become abusive in his behavior. You don't deserve to be judged or insulted, because you had a one night stand 3 years ago. Tell him to man up, or move on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I would agree with you in general, but note that at the time she slept with the friend, apparently she didn't know about the girlfriend: "...his friend later told me he had a girlfriend." I don't know - I hear what you're saying but I think the drive for sex and control of a woman's sexuality easily overrides that need for group cohesion. The "bros before hos" mantra is a kind of a shackle we grudgingly adhere to - it's usually used in the context of "Oh, I'd love to get with her, but..." I think it is about jealousy and insecurity. I think it's about his need to own and control her sexuality, and the incredible insecurity that some men encounter when that "ownership" is threatened. I think it's about treating her sexuality as an object, and perceiving that that object is devalued by having been used in the past. And the close proximity of this former lover just rams home that anxiety in a way that he can't block out, as he might with an unknown, more socially distant former lover. Agreed on all points. 100%. It's not evolution, it's male insecurity and competition. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
cmonman Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm curious, you said the friend you slept with is a "successfulish artist" - Is your boyfriend an artist as well? I'm also curious about the age difference. You were 22 at that party, but I guess he was 32... Was his friend his age or your age? I don't know if either of those details are actually important, but it could be part of why he isn't getting over it after all this time... he's concentrating on the wrong thing and displacing his anxiety of aging and/or not being as successful as his peers on you. Maybe. It reminds me of a time in my life when I started dating a girl - we were both 22 - and while I had been with several people who had more sexual experience than me, she had only slept with one person before. The ironic thing was that I became way more insecure about this one guy than I was about any of the people my past girlfriends had been with. The reason for me, after I did some deep soul searching, was not the act of sex (she said he was horrible and has not spoken to him since) it was that I couldn't stop myself from wondering what he did to make himself seem special enough to sleep with. It made me question her judgment, my worth (if she'd loose her virginity to that prick, what does that say about me?), and whether or not she could be trusted to make good decisions moving forward (she also claimed to be under the influence when deciding to sleep with this guy, which you think would be a good excuse, but subconsciously that just screams "I can't be trusted to make good decisions if not sober") The good news is that I ended up realizing that I can't hold people accountable for the decisions they made in the past. The past is a prison, and the future is freedom. I want to say that your BF can get through this with deep self analyzing, but I think that you may have to end up using tough love and telling him that you won't tolerate his continued abuse. Maybe that will be enough to get his mind going in the right direction. Hope this helps. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Priv Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 100%. It's not evolution, it's male insecurity and competition. Than we can agree to disagree. I am not saying it isn't insecurity because it is within the competition element of it all, but I do think on LS that is used mostly a buzz word to discredit the other party immediately and end all discussion (not that you are doing that right now). Here is one link supporting evolution. MU News Bureau | MU News Bureau I would never dream of being with an ex of my brother, father, best friend etc. Not saying you can't, or that it is wrong if all parties are fine with it. But there is something keeping me from that which goes way beyond the bro's before hoes mantra or insecurity. I doubt the OP's bf has problems with other men she slept with, which on a physical level is the same thing. Which is not to say he is dealing with this the right way or that she should stay with the emotional abuse going because she shouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 MU News Bureau | MU News Bureau Do you know how many guys sleep with their mates' women? Some even get a kick out of it (that's not common, I agree). If they are not interested I bet a hundred bucks that it's because they see them far too often and familiarity can be the enemy of attraction. I would never dream of being with an ex of my brother, father, best friend etc. Not saying you can't, or that it is wrong if all parties are fine with it. But there is something keeping me from that which goes way beyond the bro's before hoes mantra or insecurity. I doubt the OP's bf has problems with other men she slept with, which on a physical level is the same thing. I don't know how close this guy is to his friend (ie whether they are best friends) but I don't get the impression. I think it's more of this man's social status compared to the others in the group (hence my reference to male insecurity). If you liked a woman and she slept with someone 2.5 years ago in your social circle, you would seriously have an issue with that? If that someone wasn't your best friend or brother or anyone close? Link to post Share on other sites
Priv Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Do you know how many guys sleep with their mates' women? Some even get a kick out of it (that's not common, I agree). If they are not interested I bet a hundred bucks that it's because they see them far too often and familiarity can be the enemy of attraction. Well yea, it happens. But compared to the number of times it does not happen or versus sleeping with women of men they are not friends with it is very rare. I don't know how close this guy is to his friend (ie whether they are best friends) but I don't get the impression. I think it's more of this man's social status compared to the others in the group (hence my reference to male insecurity). If you liked a woman and she slept with someone 2.5 years ago in your social circle, you would seriously have an issue with that? If that someone wasn't your best friend or brother or anyone close? Probably, there is competition between the two. I am not sure where I read best friends, maybe not, but they have been friends for at least 3 years and probably a lot longer. Wouldn't have a problem with it. But non-family or non-close friends I don't consider my ingroup. But I would not touch (ex) women of my ingroup. Not defending the guy. He is abusive and just stupid for asking her out in the first place knowing this would be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Author lucy colette Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Good grief, I just spent 30 min drafting a response on my phone my way to work and it all deleted. Sadly I have to go into work now - haven't had much time to respond but have been following the threads and deeply appreciate all of your advice. I especially want to thank Emilia and trimmer for your validation You both seem to have understood my complicated convoluted story correctly ; ) I will clarify more points when I get the chance. Thanks for reminding me I'm not at fault, I was starting to go crazy and it has helped me not give in to him. In response to the comments about evolution , alpha beta male, male vs female psychology - I appreciate your input, but I'm Not really interested in these points, sorry. Things are a little better. He has apologized for not being more psychologically mature and for hurting me and not treating me better. He says he loves me deeply. He has been stressed with work and coming home I'm awful moods though, which is not fun for me. Not sure now I feel, trying to work it out. Thanks again for all your insights : ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Loveblissed Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Does it feel good to be living like this? If not, is this the way you or the both of you want to live? To spend your amazing lives? You should never again defend yourself according to this matter. You're fine. You should be living with your head and heart held high. You are gorgeous! Love should never feel other than the best ever. Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ah it's just the crap that happens during the infactuation period. The thought of someone else being with your love can be too much to take for some. In a few months it will be a distant memory. It's not just guys instictive territorial yadda yadda stuff. Women can be just as jealous and crazy about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 This is a vicious cycle and given his personality disorders, a cycle with no way out. I've been in this relationship with the female equivalent of this guy. It doesn't get better. It is like groundhogs day over and over. It might go away for a bit but it is lurking just beneath the surface and will come up and keep coming up any time there is stress or disagreement in the relationship. And you will find yourself walking on eggshells constantly to keep any stress or disagreement at bay so that it doesn't come up. It won't get better. I'm sorry. I really am. Also - as an aside, I have seen some references to pumped and dumped and well, some veiled condemnation of you sleeping with this friend 3 years ago. I think that is wrong and I wonder if some of it isn't just people projecting... Women, like men, are sexual beings and if you are in western society then you will be sexual. And that's fine. You shouldn't feel slut shamed about it. You had a ONS - who cares. Nothing wrong with that. Honestly, I wouldn't date a woman who hadn't had a ONS in her past. I want a mature woman who has Elgar experiences and can make an informed and conscious decision to engage in a committed mature relationship. Sometimes that means we have to sow our wild oats... So hold your head high. Honestly? The only thing you should be second guessing is your decision to give him 6 months of this and not pulling the plug earlier when it became clear he was having a hard time getting over it. Optimism - it's a double edged sword I am afraid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 This is a vicious cycle and given his personality disorders, a cycle with no way out. I've been in this relationship with the female equivalent of this guy. It doesn't get better. It is like groundhogs day over and over. It might go away for a bit but it is lurking just beneath the surface and will come up and keep coming up any time there is stress or disagreement in the relationship. And you will find yourself walking on eggshells constantly to keep any stress or disagreement at bay so that it doesn't come up. It won't get better. I'm sorry. I really am. If he does have a PD, this groundhog day is his constant search for safety and never finding it. His inability to move on to the next step (building a lasting connection with someone). Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 No offense to the women now diagnosing this guy with a personality disorder, but ascen pretty perfectly spelled out the difference between banging other guys and banging his best friend. I've honestly never met a guy in real life who was hung up on the fact a girl had sex before. And I've never met a guy who wasn't seriously influenced one way or the other by the fact a girl slept with a friend of his. It can be a huge turn on too depending on the relationship and what happened. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Honestly, I wouldn't date a woman who hadn't had a ONS in her past. I want a mature woman who has Elgar experiences and can make an informed and conscious decision to engage in a committed mature relationship. Damn you autocorrect! That was supposed to be "other" experiences... Though, I would want a woman who has experience Elgar's "Land of Hope and Glory" at least once in her life... ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 No offense to the women now diagnosing this guy with a personality disorder, 1st page: apparently he was diagnosed by a professional 1 Link to post Share on other sites
evanescentworld Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Damn you autocorrect! That was supposed to be "other" experiences... Though, I would want a woman who has experience Elgar's "Land of Hope and Glory" at least once in her life... ;-) VERY OFF-TOPIC: Actually, this pedant would point out that Elgar wrote the score, first performed in 1901, which he titled "Pomp and Circumstance" and about which he confided to his friend, August Jaeger "I've written a tune that will knock their socks off!" The Lyrics (Titled 'Land of Hope & Glory') were added by A. C. Benson, in 1902, at the suggestion of the King, who consulted with Elgar, who in turn agreed. Elgar's Enigma variations was played at my father's funeral, and is perhaps one of the most stirring compositions I personally know of. Back to topic! Link to post Share on other sites
Mrin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 VERY OFF-TOPIC: Actually, this pedant would point out that Elgar wrote the score, first performed in 1901, which he titled "Pomp and Circumstance" and about which he confided to his friend, August Jaeger "I've written a tune that will knock their socks off!" The Lyrics (Titled 'Land of Hope & Glory') were added by A. C. Benson, in 1902, at the suggestion of the King, who consulted with Elgar, who in turn agreed. Elgar's Enigma variations was played at my father's funeral, and is perhaps one of the most stirring compositions I personally know of. Back to topic! Love it! One of my favorites: Last Night of the Proms Link to post Share on other sites
Clockwork Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It happens. My wife slept with a friend of mine (I guess former friend of mine) before we met. She told me about it before we even got engaged. I didn't know, my buddy had no intention of EVER telling me which is the total opposite type of person I am. We've talked about my friend since then, there are no hard feelings, I wasn't seeing her then, they worked together and had a bit of a summer fling. Your situation is a bit different I guess, she knew you and him at the same time but she wasn't seeing you either. If she did pick him first so what? The guy ended up being a loser by the sounds of it (had a girlfriend already). Look, it is unfortunate, but you and I both know that sometimes a girl has to be with the wrong guy so she can learn how to be with the right guy. Your buddy simply did you a favour, so did mine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mightycpa Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It happens. My wife slept with a friend of mine :lmao::lmao::lmao: You remind me of a friend of mine. I slept with his wife before he knew her... not just once, but a lot, over the course of several years. After one such session, we left my townhouse, and she saw him going in to his house (he was my neighbor at the time). She knew we were never going to be either an exclusive or permanent item, so she asked me. "Who is that guy?" I introduced them, and two years later, they got married. She begged me not to tell him (I don't think he could have tolerated the news, neither did she) and so I have not said a word. That was 23 years ago, and I see him and her a couple times a year. We're all good pals, and we keep my terrible little secret. Even now, I just wonder if me or my wife will ever say something that makes him think. Good for you for accepting it. Sorry to hijack the thread for this. Back to you, OP. Link to post Share on other sites
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