It had nothing to do with you

[Arieswoman]

Goodyblue,

Everyone is right. BS is wonderful, marriage was great, clearly the WS was just a horrible person without a single moral or value.

now you are just being facetious which weakens your argument.

 

You also said;

 

He was not a saint. But he also wasn't an alcoholic that refused sex with his spouse for twelve years, as she did.

 

So why did he put up with this for all that time? Why did he wait until a better opportunity presented itself before getting out of this abusive and destructive marriage? Did he encourage his wife to seek help for her alchoholism? There must have been some payoff for him to stay in the marriage for so long.

 

It appears to me he took the easy way out.

[goodyblue]

Goodyblue,

now you are just being facetious which weakens your argument.

 

You also said;

 

 

 

So why did he put up with this for all that time? Why did he wait until a better opportunity presented itself before getting out of this abusive and destructive marriage? Did he encourage his wife to seek help for her alchoholism? There must have been some payoff for him to stay in the marriage for so long.

 

It appears to me he took the easy way out.

 

It appears to a lot of OW that BS takes the easy way out, staying with someone who does not love them enough to be faithful.

 

He stayed because he is a good person who did not want to desert someone he loved when she needed him. It got to be too much. As I have said, we have been in therapy, dealt with our end. We are happy.

 

But really, it does not matter. You will judge me harshly no matter what. It is a really good thing I am not a wounded bird who could be harmed by a bunch of angry people that feel they have the right to be judge, jury and executioner on a forum. I kind of laugh at the responses I get because it says so much more about you than it does me.

 

You said being facetious weakens my argument, I am not arguing. I am being attacked. Keep it up. It just makes those who attack look insecure. And frankly, I was just telling you what you want to hear.

 

An affair is the worst thing you can do in a marriage, is that not the mantra? I would rather deal with a short affair and divorce than deal with a sloppy drunk who won't show an ounce of love or affection for twelve years. Twelve years. What a waste. I am glad my guy got out and I am able to show him what it is like to have a partner in life, who actually wants what is best for him. I feel sorry for his ex, but only she can fix herself. And yes. He pushed AA, therapy, rehab. She refused all. You can't force someone to dry out.

Edited September 26, 2014 by goodyblue

[truncated]

Actually I find it fascinating that I am the one who owns what I did, I am simply stating that my guy was not the only one committing crimes against the marriage, and here come a bunch of posters all pointing the finger and not even considering what the other party may have done to cause such behavior. Her thinking and rationalization makes a lot of sense now because it is all I see on this forum. I am so glad I am not married to anyone who cannot see the forest for the trees. I will remove myself from this thread now as it is a fruitless conversation. Everyone is right. BS is wonderful, marriage was great, clearly the WS was just a horrible person without a single moral or value. Thing is, my guy and I are incredibly happy. Our children are happy. We do lots of fun and exciting things together. We are actually taking the kids on a weekend getaway to the city later today. We enjoy our lives as a family. When I look at most posters here, I see unhappiness. I would rather be US than the BS any day. Not because of what happened in the marriage but because of the ridiculously poor coping skills and the inability to get on with life.

 

Enjoy your evening.

 

Interesting.

I have no horse in this race, as I am not a BS, but I have noticed that for someone who doesn't matter in your life, you sure spend a lot of time thinking about her and taking jabs at her.

In anther context, that would be called jealousy, no?

 

If she were able to tell her side, i wonder what it would be?

[katielee]

not even considering what the other party may have done to cause such behavior.

 

 

Because we all know the wife causes her husband to have an affair...

[truncated]

It appears to a lot of OW that BS takes the easy way out, staying with someone who does not love them enough to be faithful.

 

He stayed because he is a good person who did not want to desert someone he loved when she needed him. It got to be too much. As I have said, we have been in therapy, dealt with our end. We are happy.

 

But really, it does not matter. You will judge me harshly no matter what. It is a really good thing I am not a wounded bird who could be harmed by a bunch of angry people that feel they have the right to be judge, jury and executioner on a forum. I kind of laugh at the responses I get because it says so much more about you than it does me.

 

You said being facetious weakens my argument, I am not arguing. I am being attacked. Keep it up. It just makes those who attack look insecure. And frankly, I was just telling you what you want to hear.

 

An affair is the worst thing you can do in a marriage, is that not the mantra? I would rather deal with a short affair and divorce than deal with a sloppy drunk who won't show an ounce of love or affection for twelve years. Twelve years. What a waste. I am glad my guy got out and I am able to show him what it is like to have a partner in life, who actually wants what is best for him. I feel sorry for his ex, but only she can fix herself. And yes. He pushed AA, therapy, rehab. She refused all. You can't force someone to dry out.

 

Can't resist taking those jabs, can you?

 

If one person's actions can cause another person's bad behaviour ( wife+her poor behaviour= spouse cheating) then let's extrapolate from that.

If she wasn't an alcoholic when he married her, then her poor behaviour must have been because of him. After all, bad behaviour doesn't start in a vacuum? ( wife+crappy husband+drinking?)

[goodyblue]

Can't resist taking those jabs, can you?

 

If one person's actions can cause another person's bad behaviour ( wife+her poor behaviour= spouse cheating) then let's extrapolate from that.

If she wasn't an alcoholic when he married her, then her poor behaviour must have been because of him. After all, bad behaviour doesn't start in a vacuum? ( wife+crappy husband+drinking?)

 

The jab was actually a quote from what a BS said to me and I turned it around. And I am the one taking jabs? Grow up.

 

To answer your question they married young.and she drank. She.did not begin to.drink heavily until the children were born. Her father and two brothers are also drunks. It is my guys fault for staying so long.

[truncated]

The jab was actually a quote from what a BS said to me and I turned it around. And I am the one taking jabs? Grow up.

 

To answer your question they married young.and she drank. She.did not begin to.drink heavily until the children were born. Her father and two brothers are also drunks. It is my guys fault for staying so long.

 

Then by your very own logic, it is possible for poor behaviour to happen in isolation from what is going on in a person's marriage.

 

wife+ eternal factors, genetic predisposition, possibly mental health issues= alcoholism

 

so isn't just as possible that

 

Husband+ factors outside the marriage+family of origin issues+ possible mental health issues= affair, in isolation of anything that may/ may not be going on in a marriage

 

of course, there are marriages that are bad, but I have never seen one that got that way on it's own. cheating, I have seen that happen on it's own. The wife could be a porn star/a master chef/ Mary Poppins and Steven hawking all rolled into one, and husband would still cheat ( or the wife if he was the perfect husband) because they will always have that itch they need to scratch.

[Bittersweetie]

It appears to a lot of OW that BS takes the easy way out, staying with someone who does not love them enough to be faithful.

 

In my experience, I don't consider my H staying with me as the easy way out. It was freaking hard, for both of us. He was in pain, and I saw every inch of that pain that I caused and regretted. It was no cakewalk.

 

I was unfaithful, and circling back to the original topic, it really did have nothing to do with my H. After a lot of self reflection, I had many, many issues, like I rewrote history. One of my main issues was that I expected my H to make me happy. He did not (which was my own problem, though I didn't realize that back then). So I rewrote everything to paint a picture of my H not loving me enough. In reality he was a loving man who was imperfect like everyone is. But I blew that way out of proportion to rationalize my choices.

 

My H does recognize choices he made that didn't support our relationship; but none of them justify my actions. My actions were my own, and really did have nothing to do with my H. I don't know if this is helpful at all...I can see how hearing "it had nothing with you" can be even more demoralizing after a d-day...almost dismissive. But I see it as a statement saying the problem is all about the WS. If that makes sense.

[velvette]

Actually I find it fascinating that I am the one who owns what I did, I am simply stating that my guy was not the only one committing crimes against the marriage, and here come a bunch of posters all pointing the finger and not even considering what the other party may have done to cause such behavior. Her thinking and rationalization makes a lot of sense now because it is all I see on this forum. I am so glad I am not married to anyone who cannot see the forest for the trees. I will remove myself from this thread now as it is a fruitless conversation. Everyone is right. BS is wonderful, marriage was great, clearly the WS was just a horrible person without a single moral or value. Thing is, my guy and I are incredibly happy. Our children are happy. We do lots of fun and exciting things together. We are actually taking the kids on a weekend getaway to the city later today. We enjoy our lives as a family. When I look at most posters here, I see unhappiness. I would rather be US than the BS any day. Not because of what happened in the marriage but because of the ridiculously poor coping skills and the inability to get on with life.

 

Enjoy your evening.

 

Sorry, in my world there is a little thing called personal responsibility. No one can make me do something because of their bad behavior whether its in my marriage or any other facet of life. If you operate differently, oh well. I guess you are at the whim and mercy of every dysfunctional person who crosses your path.

 

You seem pretty unhappy that people wont agree with you that your boyfriends wife is responsible for his cheating. Whats that about.

 

Do you seriously believe that adults are not responsible for their own behavior? Is that what you are teaching your children?

[Bittersweetie]

 

I was unfaithful, and circling back to the original topic, it really did have nothing to do with my H. After a lot of self reflection, I had many, many issues, like I rewrote history. One of my main issues was that I expected my H to make me happy. He did not (which was my own problem, though I didn't realize that back then). So I rewrote everything to paint a picture of my H not loving me enough. In reality he was a loving man who was imperfect like everyone is. But I blew that way out of proportion to rationalize my choices.

 

Just to follow up by saying that I'm a WS that's almost five years out from d-day, so I have a lot of time and perspective to have come to these thoughts. I'm not sure if 6 months, or even a year out, I was there. I may have said something like "It had nothing to do with you," meaning it, but not yet able to articulate why.

 

However, I can still understand how those words can hurt. It's similar to "It just happened" or such...the statement could be heard as not taking responsibility. But if the WS is showing responsibility in other ways...maybe they just aren't able to articulate yet why it had nothing to do with you.

[Arieswoman]

Goodyblue,

You said

 

To answer your question they married young.and she drank. She.did not begin to.drink heavily until the children were born. Her father and two brothers are also drunks. It is my guys fault for staying so long.

 

(my bold)

 

I agree, totally, but cheating on his wife was not the answer.

Sadly people who are married to alcoholics have a rough ride. However, to stay with someone who values alcohol more than you is a sign of weakness. It is much easier to maintain the status quo than make a break.

[nightmare01]

In my experience, I don't consider my H staying with me as the easy way out. It was freaking hard, for both of us. He was in pain, and I saw every inch of that pain that I caused and regretted. It was no cakewalk.

 

I was unfaithful, and circling back to the original topic, it really did have nothing to do with my H. After a lot of self reflection, I had many, many issues, like I rewrote history. One of my main issues was that I expected my H to make me happy. He did not (which was my own problem, though I didn't realize that back then). So I rewrote everything to paint a picture of my H not loving me enough. In reality he was a loving man who was imperfect like everyone is. But I blew that way out of proportion to rationalize my choices.

 

My H does recognize choices he made that didn't support our relationship; but none of them justify my actions. My actions were my own, and really did have nothing to do with my H. I don't know if this is helpful at all...I can see how hearing "it had nothing with you" can be even more demoralizing after a d-day...almost dismissive. But I see it as a statement saying the problem is all about the WS. If that makes sense.

 

I really appreciate you posting this. I'm new here, and this thread has bothered me a bit - as a BH this thread has made me think that this place is a hostile environment.

 

I am 13 years past Dday. WW has not been a very remorseful person - I've gotten some of that, but I believe she doesn't grasp the significance of what she did. We're mostly fine now, although there are bumps in the road from time to time.

 

We had one of these bumps recently. WW's LTA was with a person at her work. She has always had weak boundaries with men she worked with and I complained about these relationships pretty much through our entire marriage. All it took was an OM to breach her weak boundary and her LTA began. So now post Dday one of my boundaries with her is that she does not go to lunch (or other social function) one on one with a man.

 

The other day she went to lunch with a man from work. Although this was supposedly a work related lunch, I believed it was unprofessional to have lunch together when the work related issue could be discussed in a meeting at work. It bothered me and I let WW know. My letting her know reminded her of her LTA and she got kind of pissy about it. In the end it was not a big deal, and we are getting back to the way things were before.

 

Sorry for that tangent.

 

Regarding M issues driving an affair. My perspective is that M issues are separate from the affair. M issues only enter into the affair as an excuse to do what each person involved in the affair wants to do. M issues have to be handled and fixed, but this IMO has to happen independent of dealing with the affair. I believe that each person in the M is responsible for 50% of the problems.

 

In the case Goodyblue brings up the wife drinking is an issue. But there is no doubt in my mind that; first - the amount of drinking is probably being blown out of proportion, second - I very much doubt that there was no sex in the M as this seems a common lie told by WS from what I have read, and third - that the husband had faults also, which were perhaps in the wife's POV were just as damaging as her drinking seemed to him. If the M couple had taken on MC they may have worked through their problems, but that didn't happen. Instead of turning toward his wife to fix the problems he saw in their M, he turned to another person and had an affair.

 

That choice to have an affair is in my view is separate from the M problems. It clouds the M issues because when an affair happens, the affair has to be dealt with before the M problems can be tackled. An affair brings in 1000x the amount of pain and issues than the M problems ever did - for both the BS and WS.

 

My point is that it is not the M problems that cause an affair. Instead it's the way the people deal with those problems that pretty much every M has. You can turn inward and fix the M, or you can abandon the M and turn outward to find someone to have an affair with.

 

HOW was it ok for the WS to start an intimate emotional relationship with another person?

HOW was it ok for the WS to start an intimate physical relationship with another person?

 

I'm not asking WHY because "why" questions usually point to external sources. I'm asking a "how" question because it focuses on internal issues that made that choice possible.

[HermioneG]

I really appreciate you posting this. I'm new here, and this thread has bothered me a bit - as a BH this thread has made me think that this place is a hostile environment.

 

I am 13 years past Dday. WW has not been a very remorseful person - I've gotten some of that, but I believe she doesn't grasp the significance of what she did. We're mostly fine now, although there are bumps in the road from time to time.

 

We had one of these bumps recently. WW's LTA was with a person at her work. She has always had weak boundaries with men she worked with and I complained about these relationships pretty much through our entire marriage. All it took was an OM to breach her weak boundary and her LTA began. So now post Dday one of my boundaries with her is that she does not go to lunch (or other social function) one on one with a man.

 

The other day she went to lunch with a man from work. Although this was supposedly a work related lunch, I believed it was unprofessional to have lunch together when the work related issue could be discussed in a meeting at work. It bothered me and I let WW know. My letting her know reminded her of her LTA and she got kind of pissy about it. In the end it was not a big deal, and we are getting back to the way things were before.

 

Sorry for that tangent.

 

Regarding M issues driving an affair. My perspective is that M issues are separate from the affair. M issues only enter into the affair as an excuse to do what each person involved in the affair wants to do. M issues have to be handled and fixed, but this IMO has to happen independent of dealing with the affair. I believe that each person in the M is responsible for 50% of the problems.

 

In the case Goodyblue brings up the wife drinking is an issue. But there is no doubt in my mind that; first - the amount of drinking is probably being blown out of proportion, second - I very much doubt that there was no sex in the M as this seems a common lie told by WS from what I have read, and third - that the husband had faults also, which were perhaps in the wife's POV were just as damaging as her drinking seemed to him. If the M couple had taken on MC they may have worked through their problems, but that didn't happen. Instead of turning toward his wife to fix the problems he saw in their M, he turned to another person and had an affair.

 

That choice to have an affair is in my view is separate from the M problems. It clouds the M issues because when an affair happens, the affair has to be dealt with before the M problems can be tackled. An affair brings in 1000x the amount of pain and issues than the M problems ever did - for both the BS and WS.

 

My point is that it is not the M problems that cause an affair. Instead it's the way the people deal with those problems that pretty much every M has. You can turn inward and fix the M, or you can abandon the M and turn outward to find someone to have an affair with.

 

HOW was it ok for the WS to start an intimate emotional relationship with another person?

HOW was it ok for the WS to start an intimate physical relationship with another person?

 

I'm not asking WHY because "why" questions usually point to external sources. I'm asking a "how" question because it focuses on internal issues that made that choice possible.

 

Welcome aboard- and I hope to reassure you that the processes you have described and the way you see it is very much how many of us on here do, both betrayed ( like me), and remorseful waywards ( like Bittersweetie). Most people see infidelity as a personal problem, not a marital issue ( although of course- the fallout impacts the marriage).