“You just have a slutty aura”

[lollipopspot]

No, I didn't take my kids to bars or frat parties. I'd posted up-thread that I was groped at a frat party 35 years ago. My kids, in their 20's, have each been groped in bars in recent years. I think women should be able to safely go to a bar or party with friends.

 

My point was we do not give off some "invitation vibe" and many many women do not, but still have had such experiences. Absolutely sure of that.

 

When I was in college some guy tried to rub my butt from seat behind me in philosophy class. I was mortified.

[thefooloftheyear]

I've had these experiences since I was 12 and walking to the bus stop. I was not projecting or doing anything besides being an innocent child.

 

Why is the onus on the victim to prevent these things???????????

 

Its no wonder guys get so frustrated.....how can you possibly have a discussion with someone that just deflects and twists scenarios....???????????????????????

 

Im sincerely sorry that you had to endure that...And no, I am not kidding..Same for any other poster..Its tragic..If anyone did a half of the things some women mentioned here to a female family member of mine, they'd be picking their teeth up off the ground or getting a free ride to the local ICU.

 

That being said, what does asking a simple, generic question have to do with you, or anyone else in this thread? Please find one quote where I wasnt sympathetic with these unwanted advances or that I was putting the onus on the victim?

 

Ill ask it again.....

 

Why dont all women/girls experience this? How do some women....either attractive or not, go about their daily lives and never experience any types of these unwanted advances??

 

Im sorry....I dont buy into the theory that ALL (100%) of women experience it and only the ones who say something count....A percentage? Sure...All? no way..

 

TFY

Edited September 14, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[Phoe]

This is why I just presume all women want me. If I'm right, good. If not....I don't have an if not. I'll just keep assuming they all dig me.

 

This right here, gentlemen, is the mentality of a man who gets the ladies.

 

Not intending any offense towards enigma, just giving my honest opinion, but I have to politely disagree. The minute I read that statement I was completely turned off. Blegh.

 

Men who act like all women must want them just rub me he wrong way. Eww

[OwMyEyeball]

Its no wonder guys get so frustrated.....how can you possibly have a discussion with someone that just deflects and twists scenarios....???????????????????????

 

Im sincerely sorry that you had to endure that...And no, I am not kidding..Same for any other poster..Its tragic..If anyone did a half of the things some women mentioned here to a female family member of mine, they'd be picking their teeth up off the ground or getting a free ride to the local ICU.

 

That being said, what does asking a simple, generic question have to do with you, or anyone else in this thread? Please find one quote where I wasnt sympathetic with these unwanted advances or that I was putting the onus on the victim?

 

Ill ask it again.....

 

Why dont all women/girls experience this? How do some women....either attractive or not, go about their daily lives and never experience any types of these unwanted advances??

 

Im sorry....I dont buy into the theory that ALL (100%) of women experience it and only the ones who say something count....A percentage? Sure...All? no way..

 

TFY

Differences in regional sub-cultures probably account for a large percentage of the discrepancy.

 

In some place it's entirely unheard of. In others, it's still a common practice where the hollering boy has heard from daddy and all his friends that it's "how he met mommy".

 

Live local. Think global.

[OwMyEyeball]

Not intending any offense towards enigma, just giving my honest opinion, but I have to politely disagree. The minute I read that statement I was completely turned off. Blegh.

 

Men who act like all women must want them just rub me he wrong way. Eww

What a person believes does not necessarily determine precisely how they behave.

 

What leads someone to success is a combination of a distorted reality where they almost righteously believe they will prevail paired with the humbling acceptance of defeat when they do not.

[Phoe]

I'll put it out there that it's rare for me to have a creepy experience. I've been catcalled I think 3 times, which just got ignored all 3 times, because as was stated earlier in the thread, the last thing I want to do is talk back and anger someone. As it is, it doesn't happen often enough to warrant me having any kind of plan to indicate that I won't tolerate it.

 

I did get my butt grabbed once, in the streets. I punched the guy.

 

But other than those rare times, nobody acts inappropriately towards me. For whatever reason, people don't feel it would be useful to behave that way towards me. Can't even say what it is, I don't consciously do anything, so I can't offer advice

[LivingWaterPlease]

If I want to be the victim I stay focused on what happened.

 

If I intend to break FREE from the victim role I must do everything in MY power to CHANGE myself and the image I project that attracts that kind of negative energy.

 

 

Is that you in your profile picture? Do you see how that's a picture that's sultry/seductive?

 

Your legs show all the way to your ass and you have a body language that screams "come hither".

 

It's you more than them. Change you if you don't want that slutty attention.

 

I agree with ^^^^^^. Before you began this particular thread I noticed your profile photo as seductive and thought it seemed you were trying to get attention. If I were to post a photo of myself like that I'd expect to get a lot of private messages from men. Plus, I would be concerned about others not taking my comments seriously.

 

I'm curious to know if it occurred to you at all that your photo may invite sexual attention when you posted your photo or since?

[LivingWaterPlease]

I've had these experiences since I was 12 and walking to the bus stop. I was not projecting or doing anything besides being an innocent child.

 

Why is the onus on the victim to prevent these things???????????

 

I understand what you're saying here, Candy Pants, as I, too, have experienced this my entire life, beginning sadly, way before the age of twelve, before my hormones even kicked in.

 

I don't believe an attractive or unattractive woman, or even girl, can realistically completely cut out unwanted sexual attention from both men and even women, sadly.

 

But, if you don't want this type of attention there are things you can do to cut some of it down, at least. So, when I see someone dressing in a provocative way and complaining about getting unwanted attention I assume they want some help so I'll offer it.

 

OP was asking, I believe.

 

My experience has been, not particularly wanting to BE the victim, when I got older (in my 20s) I began to make an effort to learn how to stop at least some of it. There are things a woman can do to stop SOME of the attention if it bothers her enough. If it doesn't, then she can go ahead and dress and behave however she wants and deal with the attention that comes her way. It's OK with me and I won't criticize her for it.

 

I haven't yet discovered how to stop all of it, but I believe I have stopped some of it.

 

For instance, I wouldn't post my photo on this forum. NOT that I'm saying any woman who posts a photo on here wants attention. I'm just saying I'm always looking for ways to save myself the hassle and I for sure know that if I don't flirt on this forum and don't post a photo, I cut my chances for unwanted attention way down.

Edited September 14, 2014 by LivingWaterPlease

[Hope Shimmers]

I've had these experiences since I was 12 and walking to the bus stop. I was not projecting or doing anything besides being an innocent child.

 

Why is the onus on the victim to prevent these things???????????

 

As a woman myself I don't see this as being a 'victim'. I do think that the PC police thing gets taken too far sometimes.

 

I don't know your situation, so I'm speaking about the OP here. When you dress a certain way, and welcome flirting and advances from men (look at the posts OP 'liked' - even on this thread supposedly discussing unwanted attention!) then that "aura" (to use the word in the title of the thread) is very obvious.

 

Many women have been in the situation of receiving unwanted attention but not to the extent that is described in the original post. THAT screams of boundary issues, and sending out signals PLUS not putting a stop to advances until they get out of hand. Anyone has a right to dress however they want and expect to not be physically taken advantage of - but when the OP dresses provocatively and seems to want to get information on how she can stop these sleazy type of advances from men, then the natural answer is to not dress suggestively and enforce boundaries.

 

I am attractive enough, no natural beauty queen but have never had a problem with it and keep in shape, and deal with the typical attention from men. If I am close enough that I am interacting with these people at all then I shut it down NOW, if it is not something welcome to me. Women don't have to be helpless in that way.

[2sunny]

It's shocking that her "friend" chose the word "slutty".

 

I can imagine a person choosing sultry or inviting - but slutty just is extremely derogatory.

 

And I do think her body language must also play a big role in the equation along with the other things Hope Shimmers pointed out.

 

Even the simple way a gal carries herself can scream "I'll do anything for male attention even if it's negative attention"!

[Emilia]

I've had these experiences since I was 12 and walking to the bus stop. I was not projecting or doing anything besides being an innocent child.

 

Why is the onus on the victim to prevent these things???????????

The last time this kind of thing happened to me seriously was when I was 19 years old and looked much more vulnerable than I do now. I also looked younger, less developed, etc. Some men are predators.

 

I had a guy touch my bum on a crowded train a couple of years ago. I gave him a very calm and very public dressing down, he went bright red and got off the train at the next stop. Sure as hell I didn't wait for him to start running his hands up and down on me like the OP did with that cop.

 

I do think how you carry yourself will evoke different responses from people. There are certain things that some men will always do regardless because they will try it on with any woman, which is why you avoid unlit places after dark. However, I think most men that are inclined to talk to strangers respond to a certain vibe.

 

My male friends that are very successful with women know which ones to talk to. I see them selecting them at bars. Their type is the kind of girl that is very open to suggestions. Occasionally when they try it on with me, they try negs and certain kinds of digs to see whether I respond to the negativity, whether I seek external validation. That's the key. If you don't seek others' approval, they can't get through your fortress.

[Mysterio]

As a 43 yr old man. I can't get with that. I would never even think to do that sort of overt behaviour on a woman. In my mind. I just want to have a good time and hope she thinks I am cute enough to go out again with and see where things may lie in the future.

[Anela]

The last time this kind of thing happened to me seriously was when I was 19 years old and looked much more vulnerable than I do now. I also looked younger, less developed, etc. Some men are predators.

 

 

I used to walk with my eyes lowered, trying not to be noticed. I didn't realize at the time, that I only stuck out even more, because of that.

 

Whenever it seemed like someone thought they were going to get somewhere with me, by putting me down, I didn't go for it. Although, it was more because I knew how insecure I could be in ways - I assumed they were trying to use it against me, but I wasn't insecure enough for it to get me into trouble that way. I also didn't give in to outright manipulation, when both a woman and her son kept trying to ambush me.

 

My self-esteem has been knocked around, and I see your point about external validation, but that's always been more of a friendship thing with me - and in recent years, when I had a family member who seemed determined to dehumanize me. I isolate to reorient - I pull away when I recognize that neediness, socially - and I know what is true about me, and what isn't, so it's an off-and-on thing. I've had a few people try to tank me, socially, and I realized that it was because I was the shy one, that didn't have a firm foundation with the group, the way the others did - and that was when I realized that I had friends: I was fighting on my own behalf, and later found out that they were fighting for me, too.

 

I might post my response to TFY, from yesterday. I wasn't going to, because it was getting long, and I thought off-topic, but it's about being approached in public. Nobody has tried to feel me up, though.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Anela

[WesternWizard]

As a 43 yr old man. I can't get with that. I would never even think to do that sort of overt behaviour on a woman. In my mind. I just want to have a good time and hope she thinks I am cute enough to go out again with and see where things may lie in the future.

 

Good point.

 

IMO from the way the OP describes herself, she's a magnet for horny jerks.

 

When I see a roaster (roaster = hot, get it?), I don't think "wow, I want to deposit my DNA in her and then run like hell"... I think, "hmm, nice to look at, but is she a nice person???"

[ja123]

I read up to post 70 and there's some very interesting things to consider in this thread.

 

 

It's important to work on reading social cues and setting boundaries before anything happens, to limit the chances that such things will happen.

 

 

It's not to be paranoid, just more in psychological "self-defense" mode when out and less naïve. Perhaps take the "guilty 'till proven innocent" approach with men (and women!) for a while until you are able to reset boundaries.

 

 

In my personal case, I don't tend to notice men checking me out (but I'm working on it), but it's pointed out to me by others that I'm with, so I'm often taken aback. And these are the normal guys. Guys check gals out. No big deal. What I'm trying to say is that if I don't notice this, then it takes something more to get my attention. I've had some weird sh*t happen. If I had noticed the "normal" stuff regularly, then I bet my radar would've picked up the abnormal stuff from a mile a way before it developed into anything. So, you need to be more self-aware and aware of your surroundings.

 

 

And aware of your own intent ...

 

 

As others have asked, are you enjoying the attention? I ask this not to victim-blame, but is there something here that is attractive on some level? Perhaps not the incident itself, but the story?

 

 

There's nothing wrong with liking a good story and a bit of weird sh*t from time to time, if you're an unconventional creative-type and it tickles your fancy, but you need to be careful.

 

 

Sometimes we can be ambivalent, even with what we tell ourselves, and for minor things the repercussions aren't grave. Ambivalence is pretty normal in the human condition. You just need to identify it and the reasons behind it. You can then choose to find a resolution or, depending on the importance, delay resolution seeking. Yet, if it's something not minor, but major (e.g. physical, emotional, psychological, financial safety, etc. potentially at risk) there could be serious potential consequences. The important thing is to be aware, even of yourself and your most deep intentions that sometimes may be masked, so the you can make better choices.

 

 

And this is for across the board in many areas of life.

 

 

Life isn't a vacuum where elements are all separate. It's not black and white, either. So, it is important to look at the external elements as well as the internal ones to get a fuller picture.

 

 

Although seemingly unrelated (business), this book has helped me and will be one I read again soon. I really liked the way he addresses "ambivalence": "Mastering Change" by Ichak Adizes.

 

 

RR had posted this video in another thread, but I'll post it here as well: Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar | Talk Video | TED.com Through Meyer's work, I have discovered Paul Ekman ("Unmasking Faces" and "Emotions Revealed") whose work, I will soon be looking into.

[BeholdtheMan]

OP, you're probably really bad at reading people's intentions and then shooting them down

 

I don't know how physically attractive your are, but really physically attractive women usually don't get approached that often because they're intimidating to the majority of guys

 

I think you attract pervert attention because you give off an accommodating, flirtatious, friendly vibe. Are you too nice to reject people? To most guys, you might always look like your DTF (down to f*ck)

 

There's no such thing as slut magic. You don't have some magical pervert-magnet slut aura. It all boils down to your behaviour (and possibly how your dress).

[hellon]

OP I have to kind of wonder what you're putting out there, consciously or unconsciously.

 

Not that I'm justifying the men in these situations behaviors' AT ALL. It's not ok.

 

I just think that some adult women allow themselves to be more vulnerable to that sort of thing than others. I'm attractive, and can get attention when I want it, but if I don't want it I have a "don't f*ck with me" face that works every time. If you really don't want this weirdness in your life, try paying closer attention to both the signals people are giving you, and what you're giving in return. And practice your "don't f*ck with me" face.

[thefooloftheyear]

OP I have to kind of wonder what you're putting out there, consciously or unconsciously.

 

Not that I'm justifying the men in these situations behaviors' AT ALL. It's not ok.

 

I just think that some adult women allow themselves to be more vulnerable to that sort of thing than others. I'm attractive, and can get attention when I want it, but if I don't want it I have a "don't f*ck with me" face that works every time. If you really don't want this weirdness in your life, try paying closer attention to both the signals people are giving you, and what you're giving in return. And practice your "don't f*ck with me" face.

 

Someone understands the way this works......^^

 

 

TFY

[CarrieT]

OP I have to kind of wonder what you're putting out there, consciously or unconsciously.

 

Not that I'm justifying the men in these situations behaviors' AT ALL. It's not ok.

 

I just think that some adult women allow themselves to be more vulnerable to that sort of thing than others. I'm attractive, and can get attention when I want it, but if I don't want it I have a "don't f*ck with me" face that works every time. If you really don't want this weirdness in your life, try paying closer attention to both the signals people are giving you, and what you're giving in return. And practice your "don't f*ck with me" face.

 

I'm going to mention again that for the OP - and me - these things started with us when we were CHILDREN: 12 and 13 years old!

 

And, yes, at that age we were very vulnerable. The difficult part is that when this happens to children, there is no structure in society to guide and/or instruct on teaching how wrong it is because we are inundated with images and media to expect and desire this type of attention.

 

It is only when it IS beyond our control or desire that we realize we are over our head and unsure how to react or get out of the situation.

 

Of course I can see all this now, in retrospect. But as a 13-year old who had 50-year old men following me home from school, neighbors exposing themselves to me on a daily basis, strangers grabbing my developing breasts - because they were so large - I had no idea that this was abnormal. I thought and firmly believed this is what it meant to become a woman!

 

I believed I was simply maturing younger than my peers because men were now interested in me as a sexual being and my adolescent brain had no comprehension that was it was being subjected to was wrong. It never dawned on me to tell my Mother that our neighbor was touching inappropriately.

 

This is what abuse victims believe: They Deserve It.

 

Or: It Is Normal.

[ktya]

It took me a long time to figure out how to word this problem without it seeming like a shameless humble-brag or some such but today, while recounting an incident to a friend she made a comment that made sense in an odd way so here it is...

 

The problem? I get hit on all the time. Fine. I live in a major city, it happens. But not only do I get hit on, I get hit on in an overtly sexual manner I’d say a good 70% of the time and continuously run into wildly inappropriate situations in which I’m repeatedly utterly floored by people’s audacity. It’s so hard to describe exactly what I’m talking about so I’ll just highlight a few incidences that have occurred recently to better make my point.

 

-I went on a proper date with a guy. We got along well but there had been no sexual talk or even hints thrown around - on either side. Afterwards, we were sitting in his car and while I’m chatting away I notice he was masturbating himself under his coat.

 

-I had some friends over the other night who then invited this girl – a complete stranger whom I had never met in my life – to come along. We all drank and talked and had a good time until this girl pulled me into my bedroom and says we needed to have “girl talk” without the guys around. 10 minutes later she’s removing her bra, asking me to caress her breasts and wondering if I thought her p**y was pretty. Again, no sexual talk or innuendo had been exchanged. AFAIK, we were both two straight women who'd just met.

 

- I was pulled over at a checkpoint and the cop who did so asked me to step out of the car. Rather than be concerned with the expired tags, he was much more interested in flirting, telling me how attractive he thought I was and “searching me” by running his hands up my dress, between my legs and cupping my butt!!

 

There are many others and at least one other that blows them all out of the water but you get the point. I just don't know why this happens to me or what to do about it. It's so far from being flattering now that it's actually become depressing. For some reason the I'm viewed as a sex doll and I've no idea how to change that.

 

All this is so absurd because all day I hear men bang on about how they're too afraid to even approach women with a simple hello for fear of being arrested for harassment yet I go to a coffee shop and the barista is telling me how he lives down the block and would I like to test out his mattress sometime with no sense of irony whatsoever....

 

Hem line. Lower it. Cleavage. Less of it.

 

You are exuding sex somehow, especially with the straight girl wanting to play with you. Go to a church and see how the girls dress. Emulate it. See what happens and report back.

[CarrieT]

Go to a church and see how the girls dress. Emulate it. See what happens and report back.

I tried that when I was 16 and was dealing with all the things I mentioned in my previous post and I was looking for help.

 

I was molested by the priest as well. He sat there, stroking my thigh...

 

 

 

:mad: I AM SERIOUS. :mad:

[Candy_Pants]

I tried that when I was 16 and was dealing with all the things I mentioned in my previous post and I was looking for help.

 

I was molested by the priest as well. He sat there, stroking my thigh...

 

 

 

:mad: I AM SERIOUS. :mad:

 

It's obvious some posters in this thread <> continue to blame the vivtims of such abuse, regardless of age. That we are/were "asking for it" in some way.

 

For the women who haven't had these experiences, consider yourself very lucky. Abd try to put yourself in the shoes of the children and women who HAVE had these experuences, due to no fault of their own.

Edited September 16, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Anela]

I'm going to mention again that for the OP - and me - these things started with us when we were CHILDREN: 12 and 13 years old!

 

And, yes, at that age we were very vulnerable. The difficult part is that when this happens to children, there is no structure in society to guide and/or instruct on teaching how wrong it is because we are inundated with images and media to expect and desire this type of attention.

 

It is only when it IS beyond our control or desire that we realize we are over our head and unsure how to react or get out of the situation.

 

We need a thumbs-up icon. It started around that age for me, as well, although I didn't have the extreme things happen to me that you have. I received a lot of comments on my body, and sexual attention that I wasn't ready for, dealt with curb-crawlers, and even one of my mother's boyfriends getting creepy, when I was fourteen, and he was drunk.

 

I started to cover myself up completely; I haven't even worn shorts for something like sixteen years - I just bought my first two pairs since my teen years. I started to wear more form-fitting clothing again, maybe ten years ago, but before that, it was loose tops, huge jumpers over leggings or jeans. When my sister's now-husband came here for the holidays, a couple of years after he'd hit on me, I got all of my large jumpers out of storage, and wore them around him, but mostly hid in my room, or left the house. A few months later, he emailed my mother, drunk, telling her that he was in love with me, not my sister. Upset everyone, and my sister said she wouldn't take it out on me, but she did. Now they're married, and I'm shunned by her.

 

Men need to be told when to cut it out, when they're going too far - told by other men, as well as women.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Anela

[2sunny]

It's obvious some posters in this thread <> continue to blame the vivtims of such abuse, regardless of age. That we are/were "asking for it" in some way.

 

For the women who haven't had these experiences, consider yourself very lucky. Abd try to put yourself in the shoes of the children and women who HAVE had these experuences, due to no fault of their own.

 

It's true that there are circumstances when it's not provoked and some creeps just violate to violate women.

 

But in this OP's situation it doesn't look random - it looks consistent. So she can consider things she can change or control within her power.

 

 

Changing the things she can might help.

 

Having a voice and speaking up if/when it is inappropriate helps.

 

And not posting sultry pictures along with a username certainly is a good place to start.

 

Heck, putting a picture out to the world that shows the legs bare nearly up to her crotch seems to look like she's asked for that kind of attention.

 

 

As women, we can say we don't want that attention but if our actions and the way we portray ourselves to the world aren't in alignment - then it certainly sends a mixed message.

Edited September 16, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[leavesonautumn]

We need a thumbs-up icon. It started around that age for me, as well, although I didn't have the extreme things happen to me that you have. I received a lot of comments on my body, and sexual attention that I wasn't ready for, dealt with curb-crawlers, and even one of my mother's boyfriends getting creepy, when I was fourteen, and he was drunk.

 

I started to cover myself up completely; I haven't even worn shorts for something like sixteen years - I just bought my first two pairs since my teen years. I started to wear more form-fitting clothing again, maybe ten years ago, but before that, it was loose tops, huge jumpers over leggings or jeans. When my sister's now-husband came here for the holidays, a couple of years after he'd hit on me, I got all of my large jumpers out of storage, and wore them around him, but mostly hid in my room, or left the house. A few months later, he emailed my mother, drunk, telling her that he was in love with me, not my sister. Upset everyone, and my sister said she wouldn't take it out on me, but she did. Now they're married, and I'm shunned by her.

 

Men need to be told when to cut it out, when they're going too far - told by other men, as well as women.

 

I was exactly the same way. Yet, I was still ganged up on by guys who'd push me into a locker for a feel. I'd been cornered into a bathroom by guys in my neighborhood when I was 13 (I was always "one of the guys"), had the light shut off and was groped until I had the courage to run. I was wearing a hoodie and jeans. When I was 17 I was sexually assaulted by a male "friend" and my friends asked what I did to provoke him. I was always shy and timid, so I just don't understand why people think the way someone dresses or acts means they are asking for it? We give our examples and people seem to just ignore it and focus on what the OP looks like. No wonder she hasn't replied.

 

It took me into my 20's to fully embrace my body and accept myself and to really not give a **** what people thought of me.